NEW 2016 Open and Interdepartmental Assistant Principal in Civil Service competition.

JD1763

bobbysands81 wrote: »

DFA use the competition to pick the best of the best to go forward for the First Sec jobs.

That's debatable tbh

Rosiebeans81

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Folks,

As far as I know this AP Panel doesn't begin until 1st May as the previous AP competitions Panel runs out on 30th April.

I think the way they're doing the regional posts is incredibly unfair due to the imbalance of jobs between Dublin and rest of country. Someone could finish first on the entire national panel and not get offered a job because they were limited to only two counties by the ridiculous system PAS decided to employ. Not letting people review and change their choices is also a terrible decision made by PAS.

So no 1 on the panel having chosen say Kilkenny and Waterford for eg might never get called up where as no 100 who put Dublin down may get a call very early on is that the way it goes? So if they have a position they will go to the next person who has chosen that location ?

bobbysands81

Rosiebeans81 wrote: »

So no 1 on the panel having chosen say Kilkenny and Waterford for eg might never get called up where as no 100 who put Dublin down may get a call very early on is that the way it goes? So if they have a position they will go to the next person who has chosen that location ?

That's my undertanding.

It's a shockingly unfair way of running the panels, only letting two choices and not giving any indications of vacancies in those counties.

Loads of people are going to be very disappointed unless they start contacting PAS about this.

All to make the administration a little easier.

gics

I can understand it with grades with a higher number of vacancies such as HEO/ EO but the more senior the position the less vacancies and therefore the more likely someone is to take a position in an area they wouldn't have otherwise considered.

Me personally it will make no difference and I have resigned myself to the fact that may mean I don't get a job this time around but for other people in the interest of fairness they should be given the option of nationwide vacancies.

GorSin

bobbysands81 wrote: »

That's my undertanding.

It's a shockingly unfair way of running the panels, only letting two choices and not giving any indications of vacancies in those counties.

Loads of people are going to be very disappointed unless they start contacting PAS about this.

All to make the administration a little easier.

I'm in a regional queue and would have happily chosen an additional two counties and Dublin at a push. Two was very restrictive alright.

Rosiebeans81

It does seem unfair alright. I'm in the early 100's and have regional locations down . Tipp and Lim. On reflection I prob would have put Dublin down had I known id have gotten this far so there might be a chance of getting something! I'll prob never get the opportunity again it's so hard to get through esp the etray.
It's very restrictive. If they exhausted this panel with dub locations I wonder would the move on to the next one . Or go back over this one offering in order of merit the Dublin position to everyone who had regional locations . They have done it for HEO comes as far as I know.

gics

For anyone who is an existing civil servant and a union members I would suggest contacting them regarding this. The more it is highlighted the more likely it will change

dee75

GorSin wrote: »

I'm in a regional queue and would have happily chosen an additional two counties and Dublin at a push. Two was very restrictive alright.

Same here. Could have chosen 6 counties all within reasonable commute of where I live plus Dublin on top.

I intend sending an email to PAS once clearance is finished to say that I am very much open to accepting a position in Dublin if a post in my two chosen counties hasn't come up by the time they reach my spot on the panel (I'm mid 80's).

Maybe if more of us email them in that fashion they might take notice and do like they did on the HEO panel?

I wish I had known all this when ticking the counties in the first place. I'd definitely have chosen Dublin if I'd know the vast majority of the positions were in Dublin. Plus of course I can't quite believe I got this far so it was all very hypothetical before now!

But who knows! Maybe we'll all be lucky!

Cornfield

It said in the information booklet that most positions would be in Dublin.

Info Booklet, p. 5:

"Regional Recruitment
While the majority of vacancies arising will be in Dublin some may arise in other regions. On the
application form candidates may select up to a maximum of two regions."

salomon

Cornfield wrote: »

It said in the information booklet that most positions would be in Dublin.

Info Booklet, p. 5:

"Regional Recruitment
While the majority of vacancies arising will be in Dublin some may arise in other regions. On the
application form candidates may select up to a maximum of two regions."

I thought it on the HEO comp and I'm thinking the same here that the selection of the counties is part of the analysis/decision making competency. Then again, PAS couldn't be that evil/cunning, could they?

Cornfield

salomon wrote: »

Cornfield wrote: »

It said in the information booklet that most positions would be in Dublin.

Info Booklet, p. 5:

"Regional Recruitment
While the majority of vacancies arising will be in Dublin some may arise in other regions. On the
application form candidates may select up to a maximum of two regions."

I thought it on the HEO comp and I'm thinking the same here that the selection of the counties is part of the analysis/decision making competency. Then again, PAS couldn't be that evil/cunning, could they?

Haha, that might be 'over-analysis' there! Lol

bobbysands81

Cornfield wrote: »

It said in the information booklet that most positions would be in Dublin.

Info Booklet, p. 5:

"Regional Recruitment
While the majority of vacancies arising will be in Dublin some may arise in other regions. On the
application form candidates may select up to a maximum of two regions."

You couldn't pick regions though, only counties.

If it was possible to pick regions that would have been far more equitable. I understand there have to be some rules and boundaries to make life easier for PAS but only two counties is incredibly restrictive.

Redderneck

Hugely so. Where we are based, other than ticking the Dublin box which herself doesn't REALLY want, but felt obliged to tick based on the numbers game and wanting 'in'; we are a doddle of a commute from 3 counties other than the one we live in and a not unreasonable commute from another 2. It's incredibly restrictive.

noodler

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You couldn't pick regions though, only counties.

If it was possible to pick regions that would have been far more equitable. I understand there have to be some rules and boundaries to make life easier for PAS but only two counties is incredibly restrictive.

Ah now, they needed to be a bit more specific than "Leinster" to avoid people in Dublin turning down jobs on the other side of the province,!

bobbysands81

noodler wrote: »

Ah now, they needed to be a bit more specific than "Leinster" to avoid people in Dublin turning down jobs on the other side of the province,!

Again I agree but choosing only two counties when there's no notion of how many jobs will be there is too restrictive.

In the previous AP comp counties were paired together (although not ideal) at least there was more choice.

Why couldn't people pick 7 or 8 counties? Why so restrictive with 2?

Unknowed

Does anyone know when the results of the first sec interviews will be out?

duffer247

Unknowed wrote: »

Does anyone know when the results of the first sec interviews will be out?

I understand that today is the last day of interviews, so I would hope they have them out before Easter:)

The_Conductor

duffer247 wrote: »

I understand that today is the last day of interviews, so I would hope they have them out before Easter:)

You hopeless optimist!
Its also the last day of school before the Easter hols- and I imagine that > half PAS staff are on leave for the next forthnight- I'd put money on it that it'll be three weeks before they're out- at the earliest........

Unknowed

duffer247 wrote: »

Unknowed wrote: »

Does anyone know when the results of the first sec interviews will be out?

I understand that today is the last day of interviews, so I would hope they have them out before Easter:)

I hope you're right. Do they create a panel like with the AP comp or just go straight to offers?

Winterspring

Unknowed wrote: »

duffer247 wrote: »

Unknowed wrote: »

Does anyone know when the results of the first sec interviews will be out?

I understand that today is the last day of interviews, so I would hope they have them out before Easter:)

I hope you're right. Do they create a panel like with the AP comp or just go straight to offers?

They usually have a panel but last time they just confirmed you were suitable or unsuitable. They didn't change the panel placings other than those not interested that are ahead of you on the panel are obviously not included.

gics

Regional info still not available

ZolaGood

I got a pre-clearance email to send back health Dec and evetting so they making a start-they said we will be happy to update in 6 weeks tho!

Redderneck

Anyone know how long the pre-clearance takes - specifically how long before they will turn around returning original documents submitted in support of a pre-clearance process?

Not a good time of the year to be parting with your passport for example...

noodler

Redderneck wrote: »

Anyone know how long the pre-clearance takes - specifically how long before they will turn around returning original documents submitted in support of a pre-clearance process?

Not a good time of the year to be parting with your passport for example...

They asked for your passport?

I didn't need that when I joined the PS.

Steveie2017

Just got an email from PAS advising that I've been placed into pre clearance - they want me to complete a health and character self-declaration. The email also advised that once the documents are received and my place is reached on the panel, I'll be placed into the clearance process. They're also saying that they have not yet allocated candidates and not to contact the Office at this time with specific requests. They say I'll get an update on my application within 6 weeks.....watch this space!

gics

I would assume everyone on the panel got the same email

Redderneck

noodler wrote: »

They asked for your passport?

I didn't need that when I joined the PS.

2nd hand via my Mrs. It's one of a number of photo ID documents they will accept, such as drivers licence etc. Various docs are "worth" certain points, some more than others. You need to hit 100 points using whatever combination of docs you choose to submit. From her 1st glance, you'd more than likely need to be submitting either a passport or a driving licence, plus a few bits and bobs of other stuff; or both the passport & licence to blast well past the 100 points target.

She just wants to know how long before she'd have them returned. Reasonably enough.

noodler

Redderneck wrote: »

2nd hand via my Mrs. It's one of a number of photo ID documents they will accept, such as drivers licence etc. Various docs are "worth" certain points, some more than others. You need to hit 100 points using whatever combination of docs you choose to submit. From her 1st glance, you'd more than likely need to be submitting either a passport or a driving licence, plus a few bits and bobs of other stuff; or both the passport & licence to blast well past the 100 points target.

She just wants to know how long before she'd have them returned. Reasonably enough.

Jesus, I onlu joined 3 years ago but there was no "points" system.

Sounds mental.

Redderneck

Not all docs need to be photo IDs, just 1, I think. And she says that as long as one of the photo IDs is either a new credit card style driving license or an Irish Public Services Card, then this together with any other 1 doc from their list will get you to the 100. If you go with a passport as photo ID, you might need a third doc in support.

Sensible enough I guess.

spitonmedickie

Was wondering how far down the panel it had gone or if the email had gone to everyone, seems to be the latter.

Unknowed

For those of you that have the passport card, that should solve the problem of handing in passport/driving license.

Although I'm wondering if they'd accept a recently expired passport.

duffer247

Redderneck wrote: »

Anyone know how long the pre-clearance takes - specifically how long before they will turn around returning original documents submitted in support of a pre-clearance process?

Not a good time of the year to be parting with your passport for example...

That's what I was thinking myself, I didn't see any comment regarding how quickly they would return these originals

duffer247

Redderneck wrote: »

Not all docs need to be photo IDs, just 1, I think. And she says that as long as one of the photo IDs is either a new credit card style driving license or an Irish Public Services Card, then this together with any other 1 doc from their list will get you to the 100. If you go with a passport as photo ID, you might need a third doc in support.

Sensible enough I guess.

Why would using a passport as photo id require you to submit a 3rd id? Passport is 70pts so coupled with a P60 for example would surpass the 100pts, no?

Redderneck

duffer247 wrote: »

Why would using a passport as photo id require you to submit a 3rd id? Passport is 70pts so coupled with a P60 for example would surpass the 100pts, no?

Because apparently some of the acceptable docs on their list would only have 20 or 25 points allocated to them, in which case a 3rd piece of ID would be needed to get you over the hump.

deskbottle

Hi Everyone,

I rang PAS about the ID documents and was told that if you presented them before your interview (which I definitely remember doing.....or maybe it was during the Aptitude/Etray exams) that you didn't need to include them. Just send the completed forms by post. In any event, if there's any issue they'll contact you......your career won't be in jeopardy!

For those interested I got my result back from the First Secretary interview too. Anybody know how many can be expected to get a job from that panel?.....I finished top 10 but have no idea what its worth to me

salomon

My reading of the mail was that the docs only apply to people in open comp only. People in both open and inter D only need to send back health & character form?

deskbottle

Just to clarify, I'm in the Open panel......but we had to bring our 100points of ID in to PAS at some point during the process. So they've already verified the documents.....so you only need to send the Health and Character self-dec form and the Garda vetting form by post. No original ID docs necessary........all confirmed by PAS by phone.

Festy_O_Semtex

Hi Folks, any idea how many are being assigned off First Sec panel?. 
I think with AP regular, First Sec and AP1 panels and PO panels all going through candidates at rate of knots, that normal assumptions about amount of people posted  off competitions may not necessarily hold true. i know a few guys who were called to HEO Interdepartmental who finished down in the 1200's in the on line test. This is extraordinary.
Unfilled vacancies for years, consequentials for promotions, and a large amount of retirements looming all add up to a big picture in terms of movement and promotions on panels.

Rosiebeans81

Festy_O_Semtex wrote: »

Hi Folks, any idea how many are being assigned off First Sec panel?. 
I think with AP regular, First Sec and AP1 panels and PO panels all going through candidates at rate of knots, that normal assumptions about amount of people posted  off competitions may not necessarily hold true. i know a few guys who were called to HEO Interdepartmental who finished down in the 1200's in the on line test. This is extraordinary.
Unfilled vacancies for years, consequentials for promotions, and a large amount of retirements looming all add up to a big picture in terms of movement and promotions on panels.

I hope you're right! I'm just a few over the 100 mark on this one and opted for regional areas. Ive gotten the pre clearance email so they are gone over no 100 with it anyway . Fingers crossed !!

Omnishambles99

deskbottle wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

I rang PAS about the ID documents and was told that if you presented them before your interview (which I definitely remember doing.....or maybe it was during the Aptitude/Etray exams) that you didn't need to include them. Just send the completed forms by post. In any event, if there's any issue they'll contact you......your career won't be in jeopardy!


For those interested I got my result back from the First Secretary interview too. Anybody know how many can be expected to get a job from that panel?.....I finished top 10 but have no idea what its worth to me

Congrats on the placing deskbottle, that's some achievement

Hallo45

Hi all. Apologies if this has already been asked and answered - I'm new to all this.

Does anyone know what kind of questions they ask as part of reference checks? Thanks!

gics

Hallo45 wrote: »

Hi all. Apologies if this has already been asked and answered - I'm new to all this.

Does anyone know what kind of questions they ask as part of reference checks? Thanks!

No idea sorry. I would assume confirmation of the position you held, sick leave & if they have ever had to take disciplinary action against you. As long as it's not negative I'm sure it will be fine after all that's what your probation is for to ensure your suitable

spitonmedickie

Just on the clearance documents - I got my original ID back yesterday by registered letter so a fairly quick turn around.

dee75

I didn't send my id because I brought it to my interview and I thought that was enough.

Oh well if they want to see it again I'm sure they will email me.

Rosiebeans81

I'm only saw the documentation request today so the earliest I could get it sent will be tommorrow . No hope of it being there for Tuesday I'd say. Is it a strict deadline? Also I'm a civil servant already so do I need to send all that stuff I wonder??

gics

The I'D requirements and the getting form is only for those who are on the open panel only so don't apply to existing civil servants. If you are an existing civil servant but don't qualify on the interdepartmental panel then I would email them as you have already done gardai clearance so probably won't need to do it again

Rosiebeans81

gics wrote: »

The I'D requirements and the getting form is only for those who are on the open panel only so don't apply to existing civil servants. If you are an existing civil servant but don't qualify on the interdepartmental panel then I would email them as you have already done gardai clearance so probably won't need to do it again

I'll do that thanks a mill

The_Conductor

spitonmedickie wrote: »

Just on the clearance documents - I got my original ID back yesterday by registered letter so a fairly quick turn around.

They tend to be fairly quick- no-one likes to have passports and other valuable documents hanging around. Even if you work in a secure site- with secure storage facilities- you really want to get any important things the hell out of there ASAP.

spitonmedickie

hey, flicked through this thread and the thread of the previous competition but haven't been able to get a good idea of the sort of numbers of vacancies expected to arise for AP. Does anyone, anecdotal but hopefully more grounded than that, have an idea of how far down the panel they expect to get or when they're likely to start pulling from it?

Winterspring

spitonmedickie wrote: »

hey, flicked through this thread and the thread of the previous competition but haven't been able to get a good idea of the sort of numbers of vacancies expected to arise for AP. Does anyone, anecdotal but hopefully more grounded than that, have an idea of how far down the panel they expect to get or when they're likely to start pulling from it?

The old panel is in place until 30 April so presume appointments will start in May. No idea how far down they will get but I speculate that they will clear the panel.