NEW 2016 Open and Interdepartmental Assistant Principal in Civil Service competition.

DeirdreDee

Doctor Benway - all of the 110 APs appointed in internal competitions could also have been on Interdepartmental and/or Open panels. So if there had been no internal competitions anywhere, then the full 330 would have been taken off the PAS panels.

It is important for people to realise that if you are say, 200, on Open only, don't despair. Many, many, of those ahead of you on that list will be appointed from internal competitions and the interdepartmental panel. Many more won't accept the post for various reasons. Once the panels get going, they'll fairly motor through them - be patient.

Doctor Benway

DeirdreDee wrote: »

Doctor Benway - all of the 110 APs appointed in internal competitions could also have been on Interdepartmental and/or Open panels. So if there had been no internal competitions anywhere, then the full 330 would have been taken off the PAS panels.

Yes, that's absolutely true. Saying 64 were taken from inter-departmental and 85 from open doesn't mean that the panels reached only the 64th and 85th place respectively. They obviously went far lower than that.

I don't think the figures take into account First Secretaries either. There were at least 20 taken from the open and inter-departmental AP panels, aside from any internal promotions.

dee75

A question for those of you who've been through this process before: -

In due course, when they reach my place on the panel, do PAS then carry out detailed vetting? Do I get a form to fill out setting out my details, previous addresses, etc?

My worry is that I lived and worked abroad in several different countries for more than six months in each country. I know it can take weeks/months to get foreign police clearance certificates, and I'm wondering should I apply for the foreign certs now just to be pro-active? I'd hate for things to be held up just because I haven't got the certs already.

Given that I lived in these countries years ago, and currently live in Ireland, the information on the clearance certificate won't "go out of date" as it's all historical anyway.

Anyone got any advice? Cheers!

ThumbTaxed

Hi there,

Is there likely to be another new panel set up?

Regards,

TT

sodacake1968

In my experience there wouldn't be a huge number of internal/open/inter cross pollination. Certainly not on the internal DSP panel that just closed. And from what I can see there wont be whole pile on the new panel to be set up this year as qualification was based on success on the Open/Inter competition that just took place

Gloria Victus

Are there currently vacancies at APO to be filled or does there need to be retirements/resignations for people on panels to get offered a post?

SJ.

dee75 wrote: »

A question for those of you who've been through this process before: -

In due course, when they reach my place on the panel, do PAS then carry out detailed vetting? Do I get a form to fill out setting out my details, previous addresses, etc?

My worry is that I lived and worked abroad in several different countries for more than six months in each country. I know it can take weeks/months to get foreign police clearance certificates, and I'm wondering should I apply for the foreign certs now just to be pro-active? I'd hate for things to be held up just because I haven't got the certs already.

Given that I lived in these countries years ago, and currently live in Ireland, the information on the clearance certificate won't "go out of date" as it's all historical anyway.

Anyone got any advice? Cheers!

You should do this. They will ask for background checks etc from every country in which you have lived.

It won't impact your place on the panel or the offer made though.

DeirdreDee

Sodacake1968, what do you mean by cross pollination in this context?

The DSP staff who make it on to the DSP internal panel will have done so by getting through Stage 2 of the PAS competition (DSP used these results to shortlist candidates for its internal competition), and then passing an internal DSP interview. There will therefore be a lot of DSP staff on three panels at the same time - DSP internal, PAS Open, PAS Interdepartmental.

sodacake1968

DeirdreDee wrote: »

Sodacake1968, what do you mean by cross pollination in this context?

The DSP staff who make it on to the DSP internal panel will have done so by getting through Stage 2 of the PAS competition (DSP used these results to shortlist candidates for its internal competition), and then passing an internal DSP interview. There will therefore be a lot of DSP staff on three panels at the same time - DSP internal, PAS Open, PAS Interdepartmental.

From what I've heard there wasn't a lot of DSP staff successful in stage 2

GusherING

I got placed 253 on the open order of merit and didn't get called to interview (just outside the 205 that were called to interview). Do you think it is likely that they might call further people to interview in the months ahead?

salomon

sodacake1968 wrote: »

From what I've heard there wasn't a lot of DSP staff successful in stage 2

So what does this mean for people on open and inter D?

ZolaGood

salomon wrote: »

sodacake1968 wrote: »

From what I've heard there wasn't a lot of DSP staff successful in stage 2

So what does this mean for people on open and inter D?

Less people pulled off the panel before it starts to be pulled from properly or less chance of leaping up a few places in the order of merit if there were loads of DSP people in front of you...my guess.

Is anyone else getting really pissed off with the lack of info on this process such as where we are on the location panels etc. No other competition such as 1st sec etc should impact on that so why the hell cant they give us our positions..rant over

Disgruntled dsp

Does anyone know how many candidates were invited to stage 3 of dsp competition?

Rosiebeans81

ZolaGood wrote: »

Less people pulled off the panel before it starts to be pulled from properly or less chance of leaping up a few places in the order of merit if there were loads of DSP people in front of you...my guess.

Is anyone else getting really pissed off with the lack of info on this process such as where we are on the location panels etc. No other competition such as 1st sec etc should impact on that so why the hell cant they give us our positions..rant over

Yes I wish they would just issue placement on regional panels along with the normal panel surely that makes more sense . And itl be mid May at the earliest when we do know. That's ages away

sodacake1968

Disgruntled dsp wrote: »

Does anyone know how many candidates were invited to stage 3 of dsp competition?

I know of about 5

sodacake1968

GusherING wrote: »

I got placed 253 on the open order of merit and didn't get called to interview (just outside the 205 that were called to interview). Do you think it is likely that they might call further people to interview in the months ahead?

They have interviewed the 205 (128-inter) and the successful have been placed. I would say the next tranche will be called before Christmas

bobbysands81

GusherING wrote: »

I got placed 253 on the open order of merit and didn't get called to interview (just outside the 205 that were called to interview). Do you think it is likely that they might call further people to interview in the months ahead?

Yes, unless something unforeseen happens I would have no doubt you'll be called to interview.

The panel runs until Nov 2018 so you'll deffo get the interview.

Colourspring

Just wondering if anyone has heard anything lately? This process is fairly dragging on....
I don't mind waiting but would love to know that there's some movement.

Rosiebeans81

Colourspring wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone has heard anything lately? This process is fairly dragging on....
I don't mind waiting but would love to know that there's some movement.

I rang PAS on Friday and they said they will be able to tell us the place on the regional panels in "mid May" but I got the impression that we have to contact them to find out . She said they won't be issuing actual regional panels. That was my last contact with them.

gics

It is very frustrating waiting with not even the regional results out. PAS have yet to learn that the less info they give the more we ring

salomon

Do you keep flexi as an AP?

The_Conductor

salomon wrote: »

Do you keep flexi as an AP?

I take it you mean 'flexi-time' - in which case, no is the answer- it is not available to AP or higher grades.

Riskymove

The_Conductor wrote: »

I take it you mean 'flexi-time' - in which case, no is the answer- it is not available to AP or higher grades.

I would add "currently"

Flexi was available to APs in some Departments in recent years but one of the austerity changes was to stop this for new APs.

It is quite a uturn from the family friendly face it showed previously. I wouldn't be surprised if it became available again in the new deal discussions

The_Conductor

Riskymove wrote: »

I would add "currently"

Flexi was available to APs in some Departments in recent years but one of the austerity changes was to stop this for new APs.

It is quite a uturn from the family friendly face it showed previously. I wouldn't be surprised if it became available again in the new deal discussions

I wasn't aware it had been available in any Departments previously- which ones do you know? Quite a few people have deliberately shied away from AP competitions- because of the more onerous time and availability requirements......?

ZolaGood

The_Conductor wrote: »

Riskymove wrote: »

I would add "currently"

Flexi was available to APs in some Departments in recent years but one of the austerity changes was to stop this for new APs.

It is quite a uturn from the family friendly face it showed previously. I wouldn't be surprised if it became available again in the new deal discussions

I wasn't aware it had been available in any Departments previously- which ones do you know? Quite a few people have deliberately shied away from AP competitions- because of the more onerous time and availability requirements......?

Education definitely. AHCPS are trying to get it restored for new APs afaik

Steveie2017

Yes that's right - the Haddington Road agreement abolished flexi time for AP grades so it was unavailable to all people promoted or recruited to AP after its introduction in 2013. There has been talk at union level of reintroducing flexi for APs and I think there is a review to take place to ascertain whether the abolishment of flexi for AP grades has had an adverse affect on the level of interest in promotion. Either way I would say that the issue will play a part in the negotiations going forward.

PS Im in Education

Riskymove

ZolaGood wrote: »

Education definitely. AHCPS are trying to get it restored for new APs afaik

It was introduced in the then Environment 10 years ago

I am aware of one or two other Depts also - Arts, Communications.

But there are also some Departments where it never came in. It is down to the APs in those Departments to vote on a proposal.

Riskymove

Steveie2017 wrote: »

I think there is a review to take place to ascertain whether the abolishment of flexi for AP grades has had an adverse affect on the level of interest in promotion. Either way I would say that the issue will play a part in the negotiations going forward.

There is talk of allowing flexible hours in terms of daily attendance but not the ability to build up and take leave.

spitonmedickie

So anyway - the main feedback is just sit and wait? The correspondence about pre clearance said "We hope to be in a position to contact you within 6 weeks with an update on your application" so it could be the very end of the month before we hear from them again but does anyone know what they might tell us (since they don't seem to be issuing details of regional panels etc?) is it just "you've passed pre clearance and we'll be in touch in due course"?.

For me I think I'll just have to put it out of my head and if I don't hear anything by the end of the month maybe just give them a call (though I'm not sure what I'd even be asking or expecting!).

Ecribbin

I was placed 133 on the AP panel, I also applied for FS but wasn't called to interview.
Does anyone know if it's likely or possible that I might yet get called?

Thanks all.

Omnishambles99

Ecribbin wrote: »

I was placed 133 on the AP panel, I also applied for FS but wasn't called to interview.
Does anyone know if it's likely or possible that I might yet get called?

Thanks all.

I think PAS called the top 40 for the first sec interview - given the relatively small size of DFAT, I'd be surprised if they called another batch - that said you never know - on related matters, the third sec comp is still open if that would be something you'd be interested in

Ecribbin

Thanks Omnishambles99, I won't hold my breath so!

On the 3rd Sec I'm okay where I am for now so wait and see what (if I get it) the AP offer is like.

Any idea what happens next there? Does the offer come with a job description and unit, or just a Department?
Is there any flexibility around the spec or the role?

The_Conductor

Ecribbin wrote: »

Thanks Omnishambles99, I won't hold my breath so!

On the 3rd Sec I'm okay where I am for now so wait and see what (if I get it) the AP offer is like.

Any idea what happens next there? Does the offer come with a job description and unit, or just a Department?
Is there any flexibility around the spec or the role?

Just a Department- the actual role depends entirely on where you're posted (i.e. what Division)- it could be literally anything

Ecribbin

Thanks, it's quite unnerving to have gotten this far without knowing what it is I've applied for.

ZolaGood

Ecribbin wrote: »

Thanks, it's quite unnerving to have gotten this far without knowing what it is I've applied for.

Welcome to the civil service )

And you may not be placed in an area in any way suited to your capabilities /strengths depending on department needs

JD1763

In fact the only certainty you have is that you will not be working in an area that matches your experience and skills!

The_Conductor

JD1763 wrote: »

In fact the only certainty you have is that you will not be working in an area that matches your experience and skills!

I gave a wry smile when I read this- I don't think its actual policy to place people where they can't leverage their skills and qualifications- it does seem to happen more often than not though- unfortunately for all concerned.

hardybuck

JD1763 wrote: »

In fact the only certainty you have is that you will not be working in an area that matches your experience and skills!

I, and I think most of my contempories, are working in areas that matches our experience and skills.

The_Conductor

hardybuck wrote: »

I, and I think most of my contempories, are working in areas that matches our experience and skills.

You're lucky- this is not the norm in the civil service (other than for confined competitions for specific skillsets- e.g. tax/accountancy/statistics/IT).

Ecribbin

Laugh/Cry

JD1763

I was being ever so slightly facetious with my comment - but it does seem to be a very common lament among colleagues.

Aglomerado

Batch 2 have just been called for interview. I'm in the running! :eek:

bobbysands81

Aglomerado wrote: »

Batch 2 have just been called for interview. I'm in the running! :eek:

Yup, here we go again!

Anyone any idea how many were called to Stage 2?

salomon

The_Conductor wrote: »

I gave a wry smile when I read this- I don't think its actual policy to place people where they can't leverage their skills and qualifications- it does seem to happen more often than not though- unfortunately for all concerned.

It makes you wonder what the point of those bloody long forms is when it looks like they aren't given any consideration.

salomon

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Yup, here we go again!

Anyone any idea how many were called to Stage 2?

That great, bring another 200 into PAS limbo

gics

Considering the lack of information or movement with batch one I didn't think they would be going to batch two for awhile yet. Great news for anyone interested in Dublin.

The_Conductor

gics wrote: »

Considering the lack of information or movement with batch one I didn't think they would be going to batch two for awhile yet. Great news for anyone interested in Dublin.

I'm reading between the lines- but this implies there is a large cohort in batch 1 who are continuing to hold out for regional positions? Its a pity there isn't any good breakdown available anywhere.

Aglomerado

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'm reading between the lines- but this implies there is a large cohort in batch 1 who are continuing to hold out for regional positions? Its a pity there isn't any good breakdown available anywhere.

I put a regional preference on my application form at the outset, definitely not interested in Dublin.

gics

I would assume that's the case aswell. Although if I'm honest I think those in batch one who don't get an offer in their regional location should be offered Dublin before they move to batch two. It won't affect me as I wouldn't take it but I think it would be only fair as they did with the HEO.

bobbysands81

gics wrote: »

I would assume that's the case aswell. Although if I'm honest I think those in batch one who don't get an offer in their regional location should be offered Dublin before they move to batch two. It won't affect me as I wouldn't take it but I think it would be only fair as they did with the HEO.

In the previous AP competition they allowed people to add Dublin to their choices at a later date.

It's incredibly unfair the time, effort and even expense candidates put themselves through to try to successful in these competitions and then they may miss out because of the "cost" of administering panels with more than 2 choices.

Common sense needs to prevail here.