NEW 2016 Open and Interdepartmental Assistant Principal in Civil Service competition.

noodler

Uriel. wrote: »

I don't agree with TT's position but what you are describing is not what competency based interviews are about. Knowledge of a particular role doesn't necessarily mean you have the skills required to do higher duty. Maybe you could go from HEO to AP in the same job and your knowledge will see you through and you might perform well, but eventually in the civil service you'll get moved around and the knowledge of a specific role is mostly lost and not transferable. Rather it is the skills and abilities (ie. The competencies) that are supposed to be transferable.

PAS is looking for those skills rather than your knowledge of a particular area of work. In those instances, an external person coming in might have the higher and better skills and once bedded in has a much higher skill ceiling that is transferable. That's what they want in our public sector.

I almost disregard the interview here to be honest.

The success rate in interview in this comp once you have passed exams and etray seems to be in be incredibly high.

However, I can say from experience that telling a good story on the day in a competency based interview, in my opinion I should say, is certainly not a good way of getting the best person for the job.

Uriel.

noodler wrote: »

I almost disregard the interview here to be honest.

The success rate in interview in this comp once you have passed exams and etray seems to be in be incredibly high.

However, I can say from experience that telling a good story on the day in a competency based interview, in my opinion I should say, is certainly not a good way of getting the best person for the job.

There's no perfect way.
Internal interviews are every bit as bad and the complete disregard by the majority of the civil service for PMDS further accentuates the problem

noodler

Uriel. wrote: »

There's no perfect way.
Internal interviews are every bit as bad and the complete disregard by the majority of the civil service for PMDS further accentuates the problem

I can't agree with that.

At least in an internal interview people are shortlisted based on genuine experience and examples directly relating to the job.

They can also be interviewed on a similar basis with the board having a reasonably genuine ability to scrutinise this experience and examples.

I absolutely agree there is no perfect way though.

Uriel.

noodler wrote: »

I can't agree with that.

At least in an internal interview people are shortlisted based on genuine experience and examples directly relating to the job.

They can also be interviewed on a similar basis with the board having a reasonably genuine ability to scrutinise this experience and examples.

I absolutely agree there is no perfect way though.

That's not the case always in internal interviews.
I've had several internal interviews where the panel of interviewers knew nothing beyond what I had on the form. Sure your line manager has to sign off on it, but there's so much grey there that when you get to an interview you can fill in any gaps you want with made up experience. It's little different to the external panels. The role of the interviewer is to probe your examples for deeper understanding. If you are good at "playing the game" in interviews you'll generally be fine, but mostly what you'll find happening in internals is the candidate putting themselves in the shoes of their line management in the interview and portraying not their experience but that of their managers.

I don't believe that internal competitions produce better candidates at the other end of the filtering process than external competitions at all. I say that having been on both sides of the table.

noodler

Uriel. wrote: »

That's not the case always in internal interviews.
I've had several internal interviews where the panel of interviewers knew nothing beyond what I had on the form. Sure your line manager has to sign off on it, but there's so much grey there that when you get to an interview you can fill in any gaps you want with made up experience. It's little different to the external panels. The role of the interviewer is to probe your examples for deeper understanding. If you are good at "playing the game" in interviews you'll generally be fine, but mostly what you'll find happening in internals is the candidate putting themselves in the shoes of their line management in the interview and portraying not their experience but that of their managers.

I don't believe that internal competitions produce better candidates at the other end of the filtering process than external competitions at all. I say that having been on both sides of the table.

Agree to disagree I suppose.

I find that most internal interviewer panels will have had some interaction on a professional level with candidates who have, as is required, been working in the relevant Dept for a minimum of two years.

You won't catch me here saying external candidates don't cut the mustard or anything like that.

I am just saying, and reverting to my original extreme example again, that an experienced and more highly qualified civil servant being cut out because of a slightly lower score on a job simulation test than a civil servant with three months this experience or an external candidate with very little relevant experience can be quite unfair.

ThumbTaxed

Why are people comparing open recruits to internal recruits when this conversation came from a negative comment re interdepartmental recruits? Not comparing like with like.

How is someone going for a general civil service job and getting a position in social welfare without even knowing that the rate of dole is comparable to an accountant, say, going for an accountants position in Tulsa on an open competition.

There is no comparison and that is why promotion on interdepartmental is basically the dogs dinner of promotions and a nuisance to the country.

For those saying that pmds should be better enforced. Sure, maybe, but then tell yourself how fair it is for some randomer getting promotion to a technical role through interdepartmental and basically having an amnesty in doing anything useful while they lean on the other Aps in that department who may actually know what they are doing and thus carry the can

noodler

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

Why are people comparing open recruits to internal recruits when this conversation came from a negative comment re interdepartmental recruits? Not comparing like with like.

How is someone going for a general civil service job and getting a position in social welfare without even knowing that the rate of dole is comparable to an accountant, say, going for an accountants position in Tulsa on an open competition.

There is no comparison and that is why promotion on interdepartmental is basically the dogs dinner of promotions and a nuisance to the country.

Because the conversation evolved and isn't limited to the parameters you deem acceptable.

Essentially.

CP30

Any more progress through the panel?

relax carry on

Just got an email for an interview in September for the third batch in this competition. How many vacancies are there if they are down to batch 3?

CP30

Yeah I got the email too which is great. If it's a 2 year panel I'm sure there will be a good few jobs before it expires.

Sonjac

I got the email too. I am on holidays in the States for the entire period the interviews are being held. Just my luck! I hope I don't have to wait until batch 4...

SpinningDizzy

Is there any movement on batch 2 yet?

passinginterest

SpinningDizzy wrote: »

Is there any movement on batch 2 yet?

Doubt there will be anything significant before September with most senior officials on leave this month. Hoping for major movement then and with a third batch being called hopefully they'll be placing large numbers.

bobbysands81

passinginterest wrote: »

SpinningDizzy wrote: »

Is there any movement on batch 2 yet?

Doubt there will be anything significant before September with most senior officials on leave this month. Hoping for major movement then and with a third batch being called hopefully they'll be placing large numbers.

A third batch being called so soon and with 14 months left before panel expires deffo means everyone on Batch 2 with Dublin as a preference will get an offer.

Rath Oise

Been reading all of the posts with great interest over the past number of months so fair play to so many of you with so much insight and knowledge of the process etc. I'm in Batch 2, seeking a Regional offer (North West) and from what I hear, a significant volume of people ought to be recruited around Sept / Oct.

Would you guys hold out much hope for a good number of Regional posts coming up too or is the concentration going to be predominantly Dublin based? Cannot help but feel that so many of the roles are going to be Dublin based which is understandable but unfortunate - if you're living the other side of the country that is.

Also, if you've put down 2 regional choices and they just don't come up, is it tough luck or might you be approached with another option by PAS?

Cheers.

ammg

Got the email too. Happy days

ZolaGood

Rath Oise wrote: »

Been reading all of the posts with great interest over the past number of months so fair play to so many of you with so much insight and knowledge of the process etc. I'm in Batch 2, seeking a Regional offer (North West) and from what I hear, a significant volume of people ought to be recruited around Sept / Oct.

Would you guys hold out much hope for a good number of Regional posts coming up too or is the concentration going to be predominantly Dublin based? Cannot help but feel that so many of the roles are going to be Dublin based which is understandable but unfortunate - if you're living the other side of the country that is.

Also, if you've put down 2 regional choices and they just don't come up, is it tough luck or might you be approached with another option by PAS?

Cheers.

There has been very little movement on the regional panels for batch one and we have been told that the majority of jobs are Dublin based so if you are batch 3 and regional only it's likely batch 1 and 2 people in the same position are still waiting on appointment.

I'm batch one and on a regional panel and 2 offers have been made so far since May. I've also turned down 2 Dublin offers in that time so they are flying through Dublin appointments. You never know though with 14 months left to run and a PO competition happening...

And no so far they have not offered regional only people Dublin jobs.

salomon

For those already appointed, are they experiencing any problems with being paid?

I was promoted in early July and pointless people told me yesterday that it might be October before I see my AP salary! So much for streamlining HR functions

ZolaGood

salomon wrote: »

For those already appointed, are they experiencing any problems with being paid?

I was promoted in early July and pointless people told me yesterday that it might be October before I see my AP salary! So much for streamlining HR functions

That's is ridiculous but not surprising given my experience with PP! How is the new job going??

bobbysands81

Bypass Peoplepojnt and contact the Pay Shared Services Centre in Killarney to see what the delay is about and what solution they can offer. I've found them great whenever I've been on to them.

salomon

ZolaGood wrote: »

That's is ridiculous but not surprising given my experience with PP! How is the new job going??

New job going well, thanks. I'm doing exactly what I was doing as HEO until I get a proper departmental assignment in new year as they want to keep me in current project for as long as possible. Lots of EU travel & meetings. It's a novelty at first but that quickly wears off!

Couldn't believe it when yerman said October but it really grated when he said sure you'll get back paidm I'm sure he wouldn't be so blase if it was his pay packet!

salomon

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Bypass Peoplepojnt and contact the Pay Shared Services Centre in Killarney to see what the delay is about and what solution they can offer. I've found them great whenever I've been on to them.

Tried that and they said they're waiting for the notification from peoplepoint to put through the change in grade!

Rosiebeans81

Rath Oise wrote: »

Been reading all of the posts with great interest over the past number of months so fair play to so many of you with so much insight and knowledge of the process etc. I'm in Batch 2, seeking a Regional offer (North West) and from what I hear, a significant volume of people ought to be recruited around Sept / Oct.

Would you guys hold out much hope for a good number of Regional posts coming up too or is the concentration going to be predominantly Dublin based? Cannot help but feel that so many of the roles are going to be Dublin based which is understandable but unfortunate - if you're living the other side of the country that is.

Also, if you've put down 2 regional choices and they just don't come up, is it tough luck or might you be approached with another option by PAS?

Cheers.

I have put down two regional locations as I have my fill of commuting for now. To my knowledge if they don't come up its tough luck. Why is there thinking that there should be significant movement in Sept/Oct?

salomon

No appointments after 31 October 2018

ammg

New ap po retirement package rumoured

tea and coffee

salomon wrote: »

No appointments after 31 October 2018

Thanks.
I expect next March/April will possibly see new comp announced so.

tea and coffee

ammg wrote: »

New ap po retirement package rumoured

On top of the incentivised retirement in since 2009? And how come restricted to those grades I wonder

CP30

What date does this panel run from and until all?

SpinningDizzy

CP30 wrote: »

What date does this panel run from and until all?

October 2018

CP30

SpinningDizzy wrote: »

October 2018

Thanks!

coloneldecker

ammg wrote: »

New ap po retirement package rumoured

Is that to move people towards retirement or persuade them to stay on?

ammg

coloneldecker wrote: »

Is that to move people towards retirement or persuade them to stay on?

Retirement

bobbysands81

ammg wrote: »

coloneldecker wrote: »

Is that to move people towards retirement or persuade them to stay on?

Retirement

Any idea the rationale behind it?

I would have thought that holding all to the huge knowledge deficit that's going to be leaving the CS over the next 10 years would have been a huge priority not encouraging more people to leave?

How good is your source?

Killer K

On a related note to the above, do we have any idea on how many POs are due to retire in the coming year?

This would surely create more AP vacancies with existing APs bwing successful in the current competition.

gics

salomon wrote: »

For those already appointed, are they experiencing any problems with being paid?

I was promoted in early July and pointless people told me yesterday that it might be October before I see my AP salary! So much for streamlining HR functions

3-4 months seems a crazy length of time to be waiting. Wouldn't like to be appointed later in the year if that's their backlog. Nuts & completely unacceptable regardless if they are backdating it

bobbysands81

Killer K wrote: »

On a related note to the above, do we have any idea on how many POs are due to retire in the coming year?

This would surely create more AP vacancies with existing APs bwing successful in the current competition.

You'll 100% be offered a post mo chara!

It's coming for you, don't be stressing!!!

Zoolujookie

Anyone else for B2 bosses get an email from hr requesting info on performance? Is this part of their preliminary documentation??

Just wondering as I have 2 regional posts down so was thinking it would be a long while before any of that info would be requested!!

salomon

gics wrote: »

3-4 months seems a crazy length of time to be waiting. Wouldn't like to be appointed later in the year if that's their backlog. Nuts & completely unacceptable regardless if they are backdating it

Agreed.

Got onto to AHCPS and by god are they on the ball. Got onto PP immediately and demanded, and got, answers. I'm being prioritised now so anxious wait to see payslip on friday.

Some change from CPSU

Murraymint81

Zoolujookie wrote: »

Anyone else for B2 bosses get an email from hr requesting info on performance? Is this part of their preliminary documentation??

Just wondering as I have 2 regional posts down so was thinking it would be a long while before any of that info would be requested!!

Hi Zoolujoookie, when did HR request this? Was it part of the general request two weeks ago or just today? If just today sounds like things might be moving on one of your region choices - fingers crossed for you. I have two regional choices as well and seemingly there are offers out on one of them, not enough for me but at least things are moving.

Zoolujookie

Murraymint81 wrote: »

Hi Zoolujoookie, when did HR request this? Was it part of the general request two weeks ago or just today? If just today sounds like things might be moving on one of your region choices - fingers crossed for you. I have two regional choices as well and seemingly there are offers out on one of them, not enough for me but at least things are moving.

Not sure to be honest. My boss mentioned it to me yesterday but I'm not aware of any posts that have been requested for my regions. Tbh im not going to read to much into it yet. Dont want to get them hopes up!!

Killer K

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You'll 100% be offered a post mo chara!

It's coming for you, don't be stressing!!!

I believe I will! More so asking out of general curiosity and to see how quickly things will move.

Your analysis from earlier in the summer is spot on so far Bobby!

bobbysands81

Killer K wrote: »

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You'll 100% be offered a post mo chara!

It's coming for you, don't be stressing!!!

I believe I will! More so asking out of general curiosity and to see how quickly things will move.

Your analysis from earlier in the summer is spot on so far Bobby!

At this rate I'd be surprised if you weren't an AP by Christmas.

salomon

bobbysands81 wrote: »

At this rate I'd be surprised if you weren't an AP by Christmas.

And paid as one by summer 2018

SpinningDizzy

For information, a friend who was in the low 20s (batch 2) on the interdepartmental panel got promoted today (Dublin). Something is happening at last!

Link3n

SpinningDizzy wrote: »

For information, a friend who was in the low 20s (batch 2) on the interdepartmental panel got promoted today (Dublin). Something is happening at last!

Do you know where they were on the open?

SpinningDizzy

Link3n wrote: »

Do you know where they were on the open?

I'm not sure and for some reason I can't contact them! From memory, I think they were mid to late 30s. I phoned PAS and they said they had appointed up to late teens (open).

sodacake1968

Has anyone been given regional placings for candidates in batch 2

Murraymint81

Hi, Does anyone know when you recieve an offer how long you have to accept/turn down? Thanks

shibbyj

sodacake1968 wrote: »

Has anyone been given regional placings for candidates in batch 2

Not as yet. Last time I asked they told me it would be 'a number of weeks' before they would give that information. I'm regional only.

Dolly1978

shibbyj wrote: »

Not as yet. Last time I asked they told me it would be 'a number of weeks' before they would give that information. I'm regional only.

Yes they are available from PAS I got mine two weeks ago.