NEW 2016 Open and Interdepartmental Assistant Principal in Civil Service competition.

The_Conductor

DeirdreDee wrote: »

Conductor - do you know how many failed the e-tray the last time? I'd love to know. I thought it was very tough.

I don't know the actual number- I do know there was a meeting about how it was a waste of time and resources to interview all the candidates who got through to the final round- and indeed passed the interview- but then got knocked out with the e-tray.

They've a few new interviewers this time round- mostly recent retirees.

To be brutally honest- I think the whole recruitment regime needs a complete overhaul- its patently not fit for purpose- and there are a lot of very decent candidates getting knocked out for what are technical or spurious reasons. I, personally think, a personality test- which focused on people skills and excluded those with psychopathic tendencies- would be preferable (and hard work skills could be assessed at interview to pad out a reasonable skillset for incoming officers).

Anyhow- its Friday- we've the weekend ahead of us- and I've two monkeys to get out the door here. Have a good day all.

derailed

The_Conductor wrote: »

I don't know the actual number- I do know there was a meeting about how it was a waste of time and resources to interview all the candidates who got through to the final round- and indeed passed the interview- but then got knocked out with the e-tray.

They've a few new interviewers this time round- mostly recent retirees.

To be brutally honest- I think the whole recruitment regime needs a complete overhaul- its patently not fit for purpose- and there are a lot of very decent candidates getting knocked out for what are technical or spurious reasons. I, personally think, a personality test- which focused on people skills and excluded those with psychopathic tendencies- would be preferable (and hard work skills could be assessed at interview to pad out a reasonable skillset for incoming officers).

Anyhow- its Friday- we've the weekend ahead of us- and I've two monkeys to get out the door here. Have a good day all.

Agreed. It seems a personality test is overlooked in favour of assessing managerial instincts in sometimes unrealistic scenarios not present in my workplace. Just found I'm out myself already with the scores below having got to interview stage in the previous AP competition.

Verbal Reasoning 68/80
Numerical 50/80
Situational Judgement 37/80

There was no way of preparing for or even being in a position to assess how the situational went and all very frustrating to know this form of testing is continually ahead for the foreseeable future. It's part of a culling exercise I guess with the e-tray being the next stage in the numbers process.

Best of luck to all through to next stage anyhow.

tigger123

I think of the three the situational judgement is the most relevant (?) - it's quite close in a lot of respects to a personality test, as in, 'in this scenario, what would YOU do?'

Sheep_Lover

Hi,

Does anyone have any idea on whether your ranking is consolidated as you begin Stage 2. I'm curious as to how the process works - is it a case of your Stage 1 result combining with your Stage 2 resit score to give you an overall ranking or do we start from scratch for Stage 2 resit or is it that your Stage 1 ranking is confirmed once you score within 15% of your Stage 1 score in Stage 2 resit? This is aside from the eTray exercise which obviously will impact your ranking.

One final observation - if one scored highly in Stage 1, is it somewhat of a poisoned chalice in that you have set the bar so high for yourself, the requirement to score in the resit within a 15% range of your initial score may be your undoing - this is not a situation I am affected by but people who finished in the top 25 for example..

eoinola

You start again - blank page. Stage 1 gone now in terms of your results. Stage 2 is a completely new phase

Sheep_Lover

I'm not sure about that - that suggests that the person who finished 1st in Stage 1 is no better off than the person who finished 1047th or whatever the cut-off is - that's hardly fair..

eoinola

the person that finished first could also have had their extremely intelligent friend to do the test for them hence the reason for a supervised test at stage 2 where everyone starts from zero again

salomon

eoinola wrote: »

You start again - blank page. Stage 1 gone now in terms of your results. Stage 2 is a completely new phase

In the HEO comp, the situational tests from part 1 impacted your placement after Rd 2

Sheep_Lover

Yes, I would expect Stage 1 ranking would be factored in to your Post-Stage 2 ranking in this competition once you succeed in scoring within 15% range of your Stage 1 score at the resit. I stand to be corrected however.

gics

DeirdreDee wrote: »

Conductor - do you know how many failed the e-tray the last time? I'd love to know. I thought it was very tough.

I also found it very tough and it let me down the last time, I am lost as to how to improve when they give you no feed bsck

Veledan22

1st stage results weren't taken into account at the 2nd stage for the AO competition.

tea and coffee

gics wrote: »

I also found it very tough and it let me down the last time, I am lost as to how to improve when they give you no feed bsck

Wondering what it even involves as such- I have a broad understanding of it.
Also, given that they are doing 1000 min for job simulation, in what way will it differ from "management scenarios"- or is it 2 sides of the same coin?

gics

tea and coffee wrote: »

Wondering what it even involves as such- I have a broad understanding of it.
Also, given that they are doing 1000 min for job simulation, in what way will it differ from "management scenarios"- or is it 2 sides of the same coin?

Last time when doing the Etray you were given background on a state department (something to do with translation services in can't really remember) and the staffing stuffing and then you were given a set deadline in which you had to draw up an email to the head of dept outlining your ideas for improving to business in the middle of this you got various emails and pop up boxes which contained various either multiple choice options or tasks one main one was regarding the minister and had a closer deadline than the org task so you had to prioritise etc. Very much time pressured. I have no idea were I went wrong.

The job simulation was the same or similar to stage 1. Whatever way I read the message on my PAS board I thought they were doing the tests again plus an Etray plus a presentation exercise. Phew!!!

1100010110

gics wrote:

Whatever way I read the message on my PAS board I thought they were doing the tests again plus an Etray plus a presentation exercise. Phew!!!

That's exactly what is going to happen.

gics

1100010110 wrote: »

That's exactly what is going to happen.

So we have a presentation exercise (same as during the recent HEO) plus an Etray (same as the last AP) then all three tests again?

1100010110

gics wrote:

So we have a presentation exercise (same as during the recent HEO) plus an Etray (same as the last AP) then all three tests again?

Apologies, work simulation exercise, it doesn't specify a presentation but that doesn't rule it out. Perhaps it might be report writing or other task.

FitSpin

1100010110 wrote: »

Apologies, work simulation exercise, it doesn't specify a presentation but that doesn't rule it out. Perhaps it might be report writing or other task.

It's a job simulation exercise. We will be asked to review a series of scenarios each of which will be followed by possible actions and we will have to rate each of the actions in terms of their appropriateness. There was 30 minutes allowed for this in the last AP competition.

1100010110

FitSpin wrote:

It's a job simulation exercise. We will be asked to review a series of scenarios each of which will be followed by possible actions and we will have to rate each of the actions in terms of their appropriateness. There was 30 minutes allowed for this in the last AP competition.

Thank you FitSpin

The_Conductor

eoinola wrote: »

You start again - blank page. Stage 1 gone now in terms of your results. Stage 2 is a completely new phase

Stage 2 is a verification stage for stage 1.
In stage 1, the tests are unsupervised.
Stage 2- is supervised- and if your score in Stage 2 differs from your stage 1 score by more than 15%- it is deemed that there is a distinct possibility that the unsupervised stage 1 was not conducted in a proper and right manner- and you are out of the competition.......

There have been numerous cases of impersonations etc- and PAS are aware of at least one individual who was paid to sit stage 1 exams in the past (cheeky fecker advertised looking for candidates)- stage 1 thus relies on people's honour that they are not cheating- stage 2, as a supervised test- is a verification phase for stage 1 (and in this instance- the e-tray is migrated backwards from stage 3- to make the interview stage easier for PAS to manage).

So- Stage 1 may not count in stage 2 etc- however, if your stage 2 scores deviate more than might be ordinarily expected (deemed to be 15%) from your stage 1 scores- you're out.

123123123a

As someone who went through the whole process last year. I scored very high in the interview and marginally missed out on the e-tray exercise. I was sure I did a good exercise and am at a loss as to why I did not pass.

I know lots and lots of people inside and outside the civil service (20+) who completed this competition and the vast majority of them failed the e-tray, there were some smart people in that bunch as well.

This year they have moved the e-tray exercise to stage 2, which makes sense as there is no point in interviewing loads of applicants for them only to fail the e-tray.

For those of you who did not make the first cut, I really would not worry about it, you will be called as there WILL be a massive cull in stage 2 for the e-tray.

To put in perspective, in the 2015 competition, in the interdepartmental stream, they called the first 304 applicants to stage 2. I think there were 4 or 5 rounds called (not sure how high they called it was > 700 anyway, as I know someone who was called in the 700's.).

So for this competition they are calling the first 700 in the first round, so there will be multiple more rounds following this.

bobbysands81

Dates for Stage 2 out now.

Less than 2 weeks away!

ammg

Just got called for 25/01/16

ammg

I got

Verbal Analysis
Your Score 63

Numerical Analysis
Your Score 52


Situational Judgement
Your Score 54

and am in the 300's and 500's. Interesting how such a small difference could have such an impact on the scores

salomon

8am on the 30th 😭

I hate mornings!

dee75

1pm on Wednesday 1st February for me.

salomon

ammg wrote: »

I got

Verbal Analysis
Your Score 63

Numerical Analysis
Your Score 52


Situational Judgement
Your Score 54

and am in the 300's and 500's. Interesting how such a small difference could have such an impact on the scores

Higher volume of people in the open than interdepartmental would account for that

The_Conductor

salomon wrote: »

Higher volume of people in the open than interdepartmental would account for that

Surely its more the ratio at play here- 2/3 of APO posts are reserved for the open panel, one third for the interdepartmental..........? A significant majority of applicants on the open panel are pre-existing civil servants in any case- so the volume aspect of the panel may not be what you imagine it to be. PAS are under instruction to constitute a panel of X number of candidates- it may simply take the numbers they've called to round two- to get to the number needed for both panels (everything else being considered as normal).

Beebie

VONSHIRACH wrote: »

Ok, how many were in that batch 1 last time?

Just reviewed AP results from last time 10/08/2015, batch 1 was 404 invitees (Open) and 305 (Interdepartmental) so maybe that why I got invited to stage 2 a year later 24/08/2016. Numbers in Batch 1 this time are lot higher so might not get that chance this time round

GorSin

Hi all
I applied for this as a last minute decision. Not currently in the civil service but in a professional post in a local authority.
I got verbal 65, numberical 41 and job situation 43.
I was placed 1047- the same as other people here have mentioned.

Skin of my teeth. Not hopeful about next round. Will be practising- is it best to use the online practise tests again?

I've been called back for 27 Jan at 1pm.

Good luck to all in the next round��

The_Conductor

Beebie wrote: »

Just reviewed AP results from last time 10/08/2015, batch 1 was 404 invitees (Open) and 305 (Interdepartmental) so maybe that why I got invited to stage 2 a year later 24/08/2016. Numbers in Batch 1 this time are lot higher so might not get that chance this time round

I hear what you're saying- the fact of the matter however- is the manner in which there are two sets of returns (sometimes a third is requested) sent by Personnel officers into DPER on impending retirements at the various grades.
DPER use this- among other things- when deciding how large a panel to sanction PAS to create (keep in mind- there are union and other considerations- its not that they simply pull figures out of thin air).

The civil service in Ireland (according to the Economist) had the oldest age profile of any similar organisation- globally (in 2014). Its gotten a bit better since- but the irrefutable fact is there are large numbers of retirements coming due at all stages, in all grades, over the next decade (there probably are a few spikes in some grades- reflecting the likes of the reversal of the marriage ban in the late 70s etc- but I'm not sure if there has ever been any study into that).

The higher up the management structure you go- the greater the likelihood that any given prospective candidate will have taken up employment elsewhere if you leave them sitting on the panel for any length of time. Its not a given- that if you constitute a panel of 380 external candidates and 200 internal candidates- that in 9 months time when you come to candidate 340 (pick a number at random) that you're not going to find (I've deliberately used a double negative)- a run of 15-20 people who have all taken up employment elsewhere- and its unlikely the civil service remuneration will be competitive with these posts.

Up to perhaps 36 months ago- when public sector recruitment began again in earnest- it was the only show in town for a lot of people. It was an opportunity most people were very happy to invest time, effort and money in chasing. Now- scarcely 3 years down the road- its simply among a plethora of choices people have. DPER and PAS, however, have not adjusted to this new reality- and are continuing to apply the same criteria, terms and conditions- to prospective recruits. Unfortunately- it is increasingly going against them (and not just in a civil service context- across the board).

It doesn't matter that they are putting together an open panel of 380 and an internal panel of 200 (the total of whom are in the region of 435-440 individuals- as the vast majority of those on the interdepartmental are the majority of those on the open). When push comes to a shove- a few months down the road- its going to get more and more difficult to fill positions- regardless of how many are o/s on the panel.......

The issue with a not inconsiderable number of internal candidates- is there isn't a massive differential in the EO/HEO/AO salary scales and AP scale (i.e. the difference does not reflect the additional responsibilities)- and while the AP gets additional annual leave- for an EO/HEO/AO- they have to factor the loss of flexitime- which includes a possible additional 18 days discretionary leave they can work up- into the equation. AP and higher grades- do not get flexitime.

I think that its entirely plausible that there will be a further significant cohort called to stage 2- and possibly at an earlier stage than last time round. Keep in mind- from PAS's perspective- they have nothing to loose having a large number of people on the panel- the panel will simply lapse in early March 2018- come what may.......... Its a zero sum game for PAS.

ZolaGood

The_Conductor wrote: »

I hear what you're saying- the fact of the matter however- is the manner in which there are two sets of returns (sometimes a third is requested) sent by Personnel officers into DPER on impending retirements at the various grades.
DPER use this- among other things- when deciding how large a panel to sanction PAS to create (keep in mind- there are union and other considerations- its not that they simply pull figures out of thin air).

The civil service in Ireland (according to the Economist) had the oldest age profile of any similar organisation- globally (in 2014). Its gotten a bit better since- but the irrefutable fact is there are large numbers of retirements coming due at all stages, in all grades, over the next decade (there probably are a few spikes in some grades- reflecting the likes of the reversal of the marriage ban in the late 70s etc- but I'm not sure if there has ever been any study into that).

The higher up the management structure you go- the greater the likelihood that any given prospective candidate will have taken up employment elsewhere if you leave them sitting on the panel for any length of time. Its not a given- that if you constitute a panel of 380 external candidates and 200 internal candidates- that in 9 months time when you come to candidate 340 (pick a number at random) that you're not going to find (I've deliberately used a double negative)- a run of 15-20 people who have all taken up employment elsewhere- and its unlikely the civil service remuneration will be competitive with these posts.

Up to perhaps 36 months ago- when public sector recruitment began again in earnest- it was the only show in town for a lot of people. It was an opportunity most people were very happy to invest time, effort and money in chasing. Now- scarcely 3 years down the road- its simply among a plethora of choices people have. DPER and PAS, however, have not adjusted to this new reality- and are continuing to apply the same criteria, terms and conditions- to prospective recruits. Unfortunately- it is increasingly going against them (and not just in a civil service context- across the board).

It doesn't matter that they are putting together an open panel of 380 and an internal panel of 200 (the total of whom are in the region of 435-440 individuals- as the vast majority of those on the interdepartmental are the majority of those on the open). When push comes to a shove- a few months down the road- its going to get more and more difficult to fill positions- regardless of how many are o/s on the panel.......

The issue with a not inconsiderable number of internal candidates- is there isn't a massive differential in the EO/HEO/AO salary scales and AP scale (i.e. the difference does not reflect the additional responsibilities)- and while the AP gets additional annual leave- for an EO/HEO/AO- they have to factor the loss of flexitime- which includes a possible additional 18 days discretionary leave they can work up- into the equation. AP and higher grades- do not get flexitime.

I think that its entirely plausible that there will be a further significant cohort called to stage 2- and possibly at an earlier stage than last time round. Keep in mind- from PAS's perspective- they have nothing to loose having a large number of people on the panel- the panel will simply lapse in early March 2018- come what may.......... Its a zero sum game for PAS.

I agree with this-the last thing PAS will want is to have to scramble to do stage 2 and 3 in Jan/Feb next year because there is a significant spike in retirements at AP. They would always prefer to over fill the panel..sure it's only the poor candidates with hopes built up that are the ones suffering !

Veledan22

Just got the information pack for stage 2, "ranking on the order of merit will be determined by performance at the etray exercise and the Job Simulation Exercise. In addition, you must also reach the required standard in the Verbal and Numerical Analysis tests at Stage 2."

The_Conductor

Veledan22 wrote: »

Just got the information pack for stage 2, "ranking on the order of merit will be determined by performance at the etray exercise and the Job Simulation Exercise. In addition, you must also reach the required standard in the Verbal and Numerical Analysis tests at Stage 2."

Thats new- I don't think they'd scored it that way before.

VONSHIRACH

The_Conductor wrote: »

I hear what you're saying- the fact of the matter however- is the manner in which there are two sets of returns (sometimes a third is requested) sent by Personnel officers into DPER on impending retirements at the various grades.
DPER use this- among other things- when deciding how large a panel to sanction PAS to create (keep in mind- there are union and other considerations- its not that they simply pull figures out of thin air).

The civil service in Ireland (according to the Economist) had the oldest age profile of any similar organisation- globally (in 2014). Its gotten a bit better since- but the irrefutable fact is there are large numbers of retirements coming due at all stages, in all grades, over the next decade (there probably are a few spikes in some grades- reflecting the likes of the reversal of the marriage ban in the late 70s etc- but I'm not sure if there has ever been any study into that).

The higher up the management structure you go- the greater the likelihood that any given prospective candidate will have taken up employment elsewhere if you leave them sitting on the panel for any length of time. Its not a given- that if you constitute a panel of 380 external candidates and 200 internal candidates- that in 9 months time when you come to candidate 340 (pick a number at random) that you're not going to find (I've deliberately used a double negative)- a run of 15-20 people who have all taken up employment elsewhere- and its unlikely the civil service remuneration will be competitive with these posts.

Up to perhaps 36 months ago- when public sector recruitment began again in earnest- it was the only show in town for a lot of people. It was an opportunity most people were very happy to invest time, effort and money in chasing. Now- scarcely 3 years down the road- its simply among a plethora of choices people have. DPER and PAS, however, have not adjusted to this new reality- and are continuing to apply the same criteria, terms and conditions- to prospective recruits. Unfortunately- it is increasingly going against them (and not just in a civil service context- across the board).

It doesn't matter that they are putting together an open panel of 380 and an internal panel of 200 (the total of whom are in the region of 435-440 individuals- as the vast majority of those on the interdepartmental are the majority of those on the open). When push comes to a shove- a few months down the road- its going to get more and more difficult to fill positions- regardless of how many are o/s on the panel.......

The issue with a not inconsiderable number of internal candidates- is there isn't a massive differential in the EO/HEO/AO salary scales and AP scale (i.e. the difference does not reflect the additional responsibilities)- and while the AP gets additional annual leave- for an EO/HEO/AO- they have to factor the loss of flexitime- which includes a possible additional 18 days discretionary leave they can work up- into the equation. AP and higher grades- do not get flexitime.

I think that its entirely plausible that there will be a further significant cohort called to stage 2- and possibly at an earlier stage than last time round. Keep in mind- from PAS's perspective- they have nothing to loose having a large number of people on the panel- the panel will simply lapse in early March 2018- come what may.......... Its a zero sum game for PAS.

Even in my own unit I can see there are about 4 retirements in the next 3 years from PO down to HEO.

The loss of 18 flexi-days is a big deal if you are used to them. On the other hand, I know one HEO who loses hours every month and feels too busy to take flexi every month.

Steveie2017

Hi! I'm new to boards.ie but have been following this thread as I submitted an application for this competition. I made it through to Stage 2 (600s in Open and 400s in InterD) which I'm delighted about but this is my first time through the psychometric testing process. I've been advised that to successfully pass the etray exercise, the key is to practise, practise, practise. However, when I look online there are a limited number of free resources to practise these etrays? I was wondering if anyone could advise where to access free etray exercises or should I just purchase the samples? TIA

The_Conductor

The_Conductor wrote: »

The issue with a not inconsiderable number of internal candidates- is there isn't a massive differential in the EO/HEO/AO salary scales and AP scale (i.e. the difference does not reflect the additional responsibilities)- and while the AP gets additional annual leave- for an EO/HEO/AO- they have to factor the loss of flexitime- which includes a possible additional 18 days discretionary leave they can work up- into the equation. AP and higher grades- do not get flexitime.

*raises hand*

heo here with a nice current role and a while to go on the scale. the ap jobs ive seen firsthand can quite frankly go whistle for the money on offer, taking into account the loss of flexi. maybe in a few years I'll feel differently but i had no desire to apply for this.

ZolaGood

Steveie2017 wrote: »

Hi! I'm new to boards.ie but have been following this thread as I submitted an application for this competition. I made it through to Stage 2 (600s in Open and 400s in InterD) which I'm delighted about but this is my first time through the psychometric testing process. I've been advised that to successfully pass the etray exercise, the key is to practise, practise, practise. However, when I look online there are a limited number of free resources to practise these etrays? I was wondering if anyone could advise where to access free etray exercises or should I just purchase the samples? TIA

I did the practice on the PAS website, I purchased some also which were not really comparable in style but I did them anyway to get into the mindset. I also did the official etray in November 16 and thought it went well and I failed it so I really don't know how to advise anyone about this element-it is a completely different animal to anything else they use and it plays such an important part of your overall ranking that I think it's disgraceful that you can't get proper feedback on it! Rant over

Starblue

Anyone who did well got any tips for the job situational? The numerical and verbal are very much my strong areas and now neither will be counted, waaaaaah!

salomon

Starblue wrote: »

Anyone who did well got any tips for the job situational? The numerical and verbal are very much my strong areas and now neither will be counted, waaaaaah!

Best tip I can give is to learn the competencies and apply them to the scenarios

dee75

New message this evening with information about the etray and a link to a practice test. It says it could take 2 hours to complete the practice so I'm waiting until the weekend to log in and take a look.

Clonmel1000

salomon wrote: »

Best tip I can give is to learn the competencies and apply them to the scenarios

I know this has been asked before but as regards practice what's the best sites to use for the verbal and numerical.

Heard today that you'll be told if you've passed the verbal etc on the day and if you've failed will not be allowed sit the e tray test.

Flinchwhip

You will sit the etray regardless. It won't be marked if it turns out you haven't passed the other exams.

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

I know this has been asked before but as regards practice what's the best sites to use for the verbal and numerical.

Heard today that you'll be told if you've passed the verbal etc on the day and if you've failed will not be allowed sit the e tray test.

quad_red

In the booklet it says

During the e-tray exercise a realistic scenario is created in which candidates receive emails, documents and phone calls which they must respond to.

How do they manage candidates receiving phone calls?

tigger123

quad_red wrote: »

In the booklet it says



How do they manage candidates receiving phone calls?

A window pops up in front of you on the screen, it has the question and a number of responses from which you can choose your answer.

duffer247

I did sample etray exercise this afternoon.
I was expecting something tough but it turns out its just a familiarisation exercise and I imagine the real thing will be more challenging.
In the sample you're asked to write a letter to a party that feels upset in how they have been treated. Not very challenging although if you're not used to writing letters/emails or being diplomatic you could easily drop points on it.
During this task an email pops into your inbox, at the bottom you have a multi-choice option how to react. Not rocket science but some of the options are very similar and its tricky to differentiate between them.
Then a query comes in, and again a tricky situation in which you have to act by selecting the next action.
At the end of the exercise you get a review document with the "correct answers/approach", which is useful.

All in all its not difficult but there are shades of grey that you need to differentiate, this will lead you to decide when to delegate, when to complete a task using your authority/position and when to take the lead in finding a solution.

Aglomerado

I am sans broadband this weekend so I'll have to go in to work early on Monday and hope I can do it there

dee75

duffer247 wrote: »

I did sample etray exercise this afternoon.
I was expecting something tough but it turns out its just a familiarisation exercise and I imagine the real thing will be more challenging.
In the sample you're asked to write a letter to a party that feels upset in how they have been treated. Not very challenging although if you're not used to writing letters/emails or being diplomatic you could easily drop points on it.
During this task an email pops into your inbox, at the bottom you have a multi-choice option how to react. Not rocket science but some of the options are very similar and its tricky to differentiate between them.
Then a query comes in, and again a tricky situation in which you have to act by selecting the next action.
At the end of the exercise you get a review document with the "correct answers/approach", which is useful.

All in all its not difficult but there are shades of grey that you need to differentiate, this will lead you to decide when to delegate, when to complete a task using your authority/position and when to take the lead in finding a solution.

Thanks duffer247.

Can I ask how long it took you?

salomon

Did the sample e-tray last. As said by others it looks a lot easier than it'll be in chapter house. Think I touched off most points on the letter and was ok on the multiple choice.

I really hope it's not for 2 hours though!

duffer247

dee75 wrote: »

Thanks duffer247.

Can I ask how long it took you?

So its set in the future 2023 (not messing!), you get instructions at 9.50am (there's a clock in the corner of your screen), and a task at 10am, target submission for 10.25am. I was twiddling my thumbs waiting for 10.25 tbh.
I imagine the real thing is more challenging.
You then get a review doc at 10.30 so probably 10 mins reading that.
You can always do a ctrl + A and copy everything into a word doc to read later;)

bobbysands81

First groups were up today... I wonder how it went for them?