Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Pyjamarama

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I think you are grasping here somewhat.

There is an enormous pool of players involved in the professional game across Europe and further afield. If you cannot get the player you want; cast a wider net, pay a higher fee, pay more wages, compromise..

At some point, a failure to fill key positions in the team is a failing of the manager. Balancing holding out for the right player versus taking a risk on someone not quite perfect is the art.

Thats not our managers way. Like it or not he's going to do it his way which is get the right guy or work on improving what we have. And he's done it successfully in the past so why think he can't again? He's already done it with numerous players here already this season. Look at this years Lallana compared to the last two years.

We're already far ahead of where we all realistically thought we'd be but our fans still seem to want to turn Klopp into a chequebook manager rather than what he is, a training ground one.

I'm as upset as anyone about yesterdays result but to start questioning the pressing style like some on here have is madness. No style or tactic is prefect, if it was then football would be a solved game. Klopp will continue to work with the players, continue to improve them, continue to improve the squad with the right signings and we'll continue to improve. Will it be enough to win the league this year? Prob not, will it be in future. Not sure but its the best hope we have. Trying to compete with City, Chelsea and United in the transfer market is a lost cause before its even started. We have the right manager, question him over individual decisions but his long term plans and strategies are not going to change. Complaining about us not signing x or y squad players is going to get very old very quickly as he's never going to do that.

Agent Coulson

We lost a game when Matip played His record is over because of 90 seconds a the end of the game that was already lost:(

jesus_thats_gre

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Thats not our managers way. Like it or not he's going to do it his way which is get the right guy or work on improving what we have. And he's done it successfully in the past so why think he can't again? He's already done it with numerous players here already this season. Look at this years Lallana compared to the last two years.

The player evolve and improve but the manager stays the same?

I am not suggesting that he can't or won't do it again. I am not even remotely questioning Klopp's position and I am quite happy with him.

But I will say this, if he doesn't strike the right balance between doing his thing and doing what is needed, he will rightfully be punished for it.

Pyjamarama wrote: »

We're already far ahead of where we all realistically thought we'd be but our fans still seem to want to turn Klopp into a chequebook manager rather than what he is, a training ground one.

Hmm are we though? If you believe that we are genuienely competing for the title here, then yes, we are far ahead.

If you expected CL qualification, I suspect you will find that come the end of the season, we are about where we expected. CL qualification is a successful first full season so happy days.

Beyond that, I expect consistency. That is what will really represent progress. Otherwise, we haven't really moved on from where we were 2/4/6 seasons ago.

Pyjamarama wrote: »

I'm as upset as anyone about yesterdays result but to start questioning the pressing style like some on here have is madness.

I am not upset by yesterdays result. I am a bit unhappy about our form though - especially when you include all competitions.

That has made me realise that we are still the same old Liverpool of the last 5 years. Capable of putting together a solid run but still the same old shortcomings.

To round back to my point. There are gaps in the squad. Fill the gaps.

........ if we start looking at the past as a blueprint without realising the past is no guarantee of future returns (I love the financial world truth be told) we might be disappointed.

Also at BD after things got good they got rather sh1t too.

Lallana fits klopps style. So does milner. He gets endless credit for their performances.... people break down when he's criticised or questioned. It's like working in Johnson & Johnson factory, KPMG or Project Management..... 95% buy into the bullsh1t 100%

Klopp can't get Sturridge scoring in the PL (no doubt 100% Sturridge fault bla bla bla). Lovren is as bad as ever. Sakho completely ostracised from 1st team activities. Moreno has actually regressed under klopp.

Our defense is fairly sh1t fairly regularly.

Even with mane we weren't looking overly fantastic for quite a few games, which is now forgotten.

Talisman

Augeo wrote: »

Should be willing to get in some squad filler too though when needed.

"Players I want aren't available so I'll work with what I have" is if course your take on the situation...... nice noble idea.... slightly dosey if CL football qualification is being punted on it.

That's the way Klopp works. Milner is our left back this season because there was a gap to be filled and the manager wasn't willing to spend the money to fill the position.

Kerrigooney

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We lost a game when Matip played His record is over because of 90 seconds a the end of the game that was already lost:(

Had he started we might not have ended up with the ****storm at the back we had yesterday.

Harry Palmr

That was bizarre, on the match thread before KO I said I wanted him to started to deal with Llorente and sure enough he scores a brace. If I (an idiot on the internet) could see the threat before the whistle why couldn't Klopp? Matip had been in full training and would have played against Plymouth so fitness was not a concern.

Agent Coulson

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

That has made me realise that we are still the same old Liverpool of the last 5 years. 25 years Capable of putting together a solid run but still the same old shortcomings.

To round back to my point. There are gaps in the squad. Fill the gaps.

If only it was 5 years

Gbear

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Thats not our managers way.

"That's his way" doesn't absolve him of criticism.

You can always make mistakes, even while being generally successful.

So long as people retain a sense of perspective and remember how far Klopp has brought us, and how much further he will likely bring us in the future, there's no harm in pointing that out.

There's no hindsight needed here. Many were critical of our lack of spend in the summer and it appears to be being born out now.

The nature of my criticism at the time wasn't "well I guess we'll totally fail now".
It was that we weren't going to be the best Liverpool we could be.

I trust that he'll get us moving forward again next season, further towards our goal, but a dogmatic approach to signings doesn't have to be excused because of that.

It's actually worse than it was at the end of the summer - we perhaps hadn't yet realised how dependant we were going to be on Mane, we didn't realise that pretty much conclusively that Sturridge was a non-runner, we didn't expect Origi to be so poor and we didn't know we'd lose another body for the rest of the season in Ings.

We're not short of money, we're not saving for next summer, we don't have a huge overflowing squad, we have plenty of games to be getting on with. There's really no need to be so stubborn about it.

Talisman

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

At some point, a failure to fill key positions in the team is a failing of the manager. Balancing holding out for the right player versus taking a risk on someone not quite perfect is the art.

In the summer of 2014, the club missed out on Alexis Sanchez who many would have considered the right player. Then the manager took a risk by signing the not quite perfect Mario Balotelli.

Rodgers made his own choices and Klopp is doing likewise.

..... someone did point out (not me) that klopp mightn't be given spends to spend. Perhaps that is the case.

mosstin

corwill wrote: »

I like Brady in the Ireland side, but the thought of him at Liverpool is bad acid stuff.

He's been stinking for Norwich, in the Championship, their fans would love to see him shipped on. Sunderland and Burnley are rumoured to be hemming and hawing over perhaps making a bid.

How he's even part of the conversation here has me puzzled.

It's that toys out of the pram attitude that football fans are notable for. We've lost, our LB is ****e and needs replacing so let's look about for a viable alternative. Hey, Robbie Brady is on the market. He's a LB, we need a LB, why doesn't Klopp cop on and buy the Irish lad - he couldn't be any worse than what we have.
Easily the most ridiculous type of 'logic' you're likely to see but it happens again and again on here and elsewhere. There's a very good reason Brady's been plying his trade mostly in the Championship and why he hasn't had a long list of suitors. He isn't close to the standard of what's needed - Moreno clearly isn't either.
We lost, we were awful, the squad needs strengthening but if Robbie Brady is the answer, ask a different ****ing question.

Kerrigooney

Augeo wrote: »

..... someone did point out (not me) that klopp mightn't be given spends to spend. Perhaps that is the case.

I doubt he'd have signed a new contract if that was the case.

Gbear

Augeo wrote: »

..... someone did point out (not me) that klopp mightn't be given spends to spend. Perhaps that is the case.

I would've expected the spending to stop earlier if it was, for example, related to the stadium costs.

I can't see any other reason why we wouldn't be spending, and even with those costs, they were supposedly going to be covered by the increases in revenue.

Even if FSG were bunkering down in anticipation of selling the club, a failure to invest now is bad business first and foremost. Successfully qualifying for the CL will cover any outlay while increasing the value of the club and it's not worth risking that quibbling over a £20m signing.

Kerrigooney

Talisman wrote: »

In the summer of 2014, the club missed out on Alexis Sanchez who many would have considered the right player. Then the manager took a risk by signing the not quite perfect Mario Balotelli.

Rodgers made his own choices and Klopp is doing likewise.

Sanchez doesn't seem to be happy at Arsenal atm...cheeky bid??

Harry Palmr

40m and 1 pound?

Kerrigooney

Harry Palmr wrote: »

40m and 1 pound?

Absolutely.

martyos121

Harry Palmr wrote: »

40m and 1 pound?

40m and 2 pound Harry. According to them, he was "better than Suarez anyway sure". :pac:

ERG89

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

There are gaps in the squad. Fill the gaps.

The starting XI could even be improved but like I said when we played City, one change we Madeley when Henderson got injured and we had to rotate several players positions. The bench has been fruitless too often Can when asked to come in has been mainly poor (Wijnaldum, Hendo & Lallana are universally known as our best midfield 3) & Sturridge doesn't suit our style or want to accommodate to it seemingly. I can't be too harsh on Origi as he is still learning but when he came on yesterday I never felt he was going to be a threat.
We clearly don't have a replacement for Mane or Coutinho unless we move Firmino or Lallana there and neither of those play better out wide now. We have an ok starting XI if we are only aiming for top 4 but beyond that...... I named 3 positions we need strengthening & I didn't mention goalies & the defence.

Gbear

It's one thing to expect Origi to slot into a good team and maintain a certain level of play.
That's fair enough really. If we expect him to come good he has to be able to do that more and more regularly.

It's another to expect him to turn a game around for us when we're a shambles.

That's not to give him a free pass; he hasn't been good lately, but it's worth taking into account if you're foolishly choosing to write him off completely at this point.

Harry Palmr

U23s Starting XI vs Ipswich: Grabara; Randall, Gomez, Matip, Moreno; Stewart; Wilson, Woodburn, Alves, Ojo; Brewster

Kelleher, Whelan, Masterson, J Williams, Virtue

1 PM KO on LFCTV and elsewhere - Grabara is a recent signing

Weird to see Matip start this, Woodburn is playing centrally in the "Lallana" position

Bowlardo

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Praise for Rooney on MOTD
Shearer '' Rooney is a guy who would play for 50 a week,a real team player ''

What a joke, he held United to ransom twice '' pay me more or I'm out'' each time the had to bow to the pressure.

Gerrard wants van Dijk in . Will club listen.
I think Gerrard will be great manager and will buy proven quality for big money.

Might have been a better idea for him and carragher to shut up so we might not get in a bidding war with anyone.

Bowlardo

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

We definitely need a left back anyhow, I'd love to see us try for Ricardo Rodriguez from Wolfsburg.

We are to cheap to get him . This summer was tge time to go for him. He'll be going to a bigger club

8-10

Virgil not moving well after a tough challenge from Vardy just there. He's a player we could do with getting a short term injury or sore knock this week

Bowlardo

Bowlardo wrote: »

Might have been a better idea for him and carragher to shut up so we might not get in a bidding war with anyone.

Indeed..... no other clubs interested until the lads point out he do a job for us

Umaro

Van Dijk has been subbed off at 55 mins with an injury. He'll be a doubt now for the Anfield leg of the EFL semi.

sword1

Bowlardo wrote: »

Might have been a better idea for him and carragher to shut up so we might not get in a bidding war with anyone.

less likely to go for him if gerrard and carragher are in the media suggesting it

noodler

mosstin wrote: »

It's that toys out of the pram attitude that football fans are notable for. We've lost, our LB is ****e and needs replacing so let's look about for a viable alternative. Hey, Robbie Brady is on the market. He's a LB, we need a LB, why doesn't Klopp cop on and buy the Irish lad - he couldn't be any worse than what we have.
Easily the most ridiculous type of 'logic' you're likely to see but it happens again and again on here and elsewhere. There's a very good reason Brady's been plying his trade mostly in the Championship and why he hasn't had a long list of suitors. He isn't close to the standard of what's needed - Moreno clearly isn't either.
We lost, we were awful, the squad needs strengthening but if Robbie Brady is the answer, ask a different ****ing question.

Straw, man.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

U23s Starting XI vs Ipswich: Grabara; Randall, Gomez, Matip, Moreno; Stewart; Wilson, Woodburn, Alves, Ojo; Brewster

Kelleher, Whelan, Masterson, J Williams, Virtue

1 PM KO on LFCTV and elsewhere - Grabara is a recent signing

Weird to see Matip start this, Woodburn is playing centrally in the "Lallana" position

Liverpool playing pretty well - Alves opening the scoring from Harry Wilson assist, Rhiann Brewster on his U23 debut scores the second via a deflection but shot was on target. Ojo and Wilson in excellent form

noodler

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Lads... are we really talking about Robbie Brady. He's the most average of all average. I'd have Moreno every day of the week...

the mind boggles...

I've seen Brady play well against Italy, Sweden, Germany, Austria, Bosnia etc. Not always at LB but I cut remember the last time I seen Moreno defend competently.

In fact he was awful against Plymouth a week ago.

The mind boggles indeed, no one is suggesting Brady as a target but he is vastly superior to Moreno in every area bar maybe pace.

That's why there talk of him being sold for 10m+ and why we'll be lucky to get more than a couple of million for Moreno.

J Mysterio

mosstin wrote: »

It's that toys out of the pram attitude that football fans are notable for. We've lost, our LB is ****e and needs replacing so let's look about for a viable alternative. Hey, Robbie Brady is on the market. He's a LB, we need a LB, why doesn't Klopp cop on and buy the Irish lad - he couldn't be any worse than what we have.
Easily the most ridiculous type of 'logic' you're likely to see but it happens again and again on here and elsewhere. There's a very good reason Brady's been plying his trade mostly in the Championship and why he hasn't had a long list of suitors. He isn't close to the standard of what's needed - Moreno clearly isn't either.
We lost, we were awful, the squad needs strengthening but if Robbie Brady is the answer, ask a different ****ing question.

Every time i've watched Brady i've been impressed. Can pass, can tackle, decent pace. Has a good shot on him, can take all set pieces. Works hard and has good heart. Very good, reliable player.

He would provide a balance with Clyne on the right. Sometimes I think people just can't get behind Irish players for some reason. He graduated from the United academy ffs. Has 3 goals and 5 assists in 24 games.

ShamoBuc

Moreno is a defender who really can't defend. Never want to see him play for us again. He's not good enough, too many brain fart tackles and has poor positional sense. I think Brady is a better player, but I don't think he's good enough either but would be happy to see him rather than Moreno We have to be aiming for better but there's limited available at such a reasonable price.

BorneTobyWilde

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/transfer-rumours-liverpool-join-race-12489441

Are we really looking to buy this guy.

Irishmale0399

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/transfer-rumours-liverpool-join-race-12489441

Are we really looking to buy this guy.

Klopp signed and sold him at Dortmund.....

Also refused to speak to him before the DFB Final.....suspect its the press.

Milkers

Not that it matters at this point... but for all his awkwardness and occasional shockers, Sakho is still comfortably the second best CB at the club. I'd rate him well above Lovren and for all his neat and tidy play Klavan makes a lot of mistakes. Klopp has arguably been overly harsh and stubborn with him, personally I'd have liked to have seen a Matip/Sakho partnership given a good go. As long as the defence remained as dodgy as it is all options should have been left on the table.

Ok, flame away! :pac:

martyos121

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/transfer-rumours-liverpool-join-race-12489441

Are we really looking to buy this guy.

That's pure BS. He left Dortmund on bad terms, mainly due to a breakdown in his relationship with Klopp. Media are getting even lazier, must be the lack of transfer action making them delirious.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Premier League Cup U23s v Ipswich Town at Prenton Park

Starting XI vs Ipswich: Grabara; Randall, Gomez, Matip, Moreno; Stewart; Wilson, Woodburn, Alves, Ojo; Brewster

Kelleher, Whelan, Masterson, J Williams, Virtue

1 PM KO on LFCTV and elsewhere - Grabara is a recent signing

Weird to see Matip start this, Woodburn is playing centrally in the "Lallana" position

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Liverpool playing pretty well - Alves opening the scoring from Harry Wilson assist, Rhiann Brewster on his U23 debut scores the second via a deflection but shot was on target. Ojo and Wilson in excellent form

FT 3-0

Second half much like the first, Liverpool carving out loads of chances, Woodburn with the third goal assisted by sub Mattie Virtue.

Everyone played well it's fair to say - Stewart was excellent mopping up and turning defence into attack, Gomez also smooth and played the whole game, Matip went off after an hour as did Moreno. The front 4 - Ojo, Wilson, Brewster and Alves were sparkling with Woodburn between the lines making it a front 5 often enough. Brewster looks like a talent partly because he doesn't waste time - he takes and runs or passes first time, he sees and he shoots.

jesus_thats_gre

Talisman wrote: »

In the summer of 2014, the club missed out on Alexis Sanchez who many would have considered the right player. Then the manager took a risk by signing the not quite perfect Mario Balotelli.

Rodgers made his own choices and Klopp is doing likewise.

Thankfully you quoted me but I will emphasise the key point nonetheless

At some point, a failure to fill key positions in the team is a failing of the manager. Balancing holding out for the right player versus taking a risk on someone not quite perfect is the art.

Rodgers took a risk on Mario and it failed. He probably took too many risks that failed. He was was eventually sacked.

The risks go both ways however. Holding out that bit too much for the perfect player can be just as detrimental to the team. The result will be the same nonetheless, i.e. under performance on the pitch.

Getting the right balance is one of the main reasons he is paid what he is.

Klopp, if anything, has it easier than Rodgers on the transfer front. Top class players want to play for him and he has actually achieved success at the highest level.

Agent Coulson

Juve are supposed to be scouting Can.

Pyjamarama

noodler wrote: »

I've seen Brady play well against Italy, Sweden, Germany, Austria, Bosnia etc. Not always at LB but I cut remember the last time I seen Moreno defend competently.

In fact he was awful against Plymouth a week ago.

The mind boggles indeed, no one is suggesting Brady as a target but he is vastly superior to Moreno in every area bar maybe pace.

That's why there talk of him being sold for 10m+ and why we'll be lucky to get more than a couple of million for Moreno.

You say nobody suggested him as a target but they did. Why else would he have been brought up? Even just suggesting Robbie Brady would be better than what we have is madness.

I could easily pick and choose games where Moreno looked great. This isn't about whether Moreno is good enough or if I want him there its about whether Robbie f*ckin Brady is good enough for Liverpool. He's not even good enough for Norwich right now. If he was any good and available for 10m then he'd be snapped up. If Moreno is sold for less than Brady i'd be shocked.

I also don't think Brady is any better a defender than Moreno, he's also about as fast as Milner... he'd solve NONE of our issues. If he wasn't Irish you'd scoff at the idea. Sure the teams that are interested in him are apparently Burnley and Sunderland... if thats the level we're looking at then we may as well give up.

Signing average (or in this case below premiership average) journeymen is the antithesis of what we should be trying to do. Either you buy proven quality or you buy young players with high ceilings. Robbie Brady is neither, i can't even believe its a discussion...

sword1

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Juve are supposed to be scouting Can.

Doubt it,some of the make believe being published is terrible,no sources given just x is being signed by y

8-10

sword1 wrote: »

Doubt it,some of the make believe being published is terrible,no sources given just x is being signed by y

I've at least seen the Can to Juve rumours, mentioned in yesterday's Corriere Dello Sport

The Robbie Brady discussion doesn't seem to be based on any gossip or rumours existing anywhere outside of this thread. Have no idea why he's being discussed

Harry Palmr

8-10 wrote: »

I've at least seen the Can to Juve rumours, mentioned in yesterday's Corriere Dello Sport

The Robbie Brady discussion doesn't seem to be based on any gossip or rumours existing anywhere outside of this thread. Have no idea why he's being discussed

Bizarre, someone just mentioned him quite randomly I think, maybe its the Liverpool have never won the league without an Irishman in the squad angle. Pretty desperate if so - Robbie Keane is free (now that is desperate - ed)

Xhaka has just got red carded again - him and Depay were two pricey bullets well missed.

sword1

8-10 wrote: »

I've at least seen the Can to Juve rumours, mentioned in yesterday's Corriere Dello Sport

The Robbie Brady discussion doesn't seem to be based on any gossip or rumours existing anywhere outside of this thread. Have no idea why he's being discussed

yes,but that just says there was a scout at a game,gives no reason why it was can they were watching

klose

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Juve are supposed to be scouting Can.

They'll want him on loan for 3 seasons and us to subsidise half his wages with an obligation to buy only if he makes 80 starts and wins 3 league titles, the scabby, well run feckers.

Agent Coulson

klose wrote: »

They'll want him on loan for 3 seasons and us to subsidise half his wages with an obligation to buy only if he makes 80 starts and wins 3 league titles, the scabby, well run feckers.

and then buy him on a knock down £5m before they then sell him to utd for a world record fee.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Bizarre, someone just mentioned him quite randomly I think, maybe its the Liverpool have never won the league without an Irishman in the squad angle. Pretty desperate if so - Robbie Keane is free (now that is desperate - ed)

Xhaka has just got red carded again - him and Depay were two pricey bullets well missed.

#didntwantthemanyway

Francie Barrett

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Harsh to say he's one of the worst we have had, but I agree he is the weak link in this team.

You're being kind.

Pyjamarama

Deleted User wrote: »

You're being kind.

He looked fine when he had Matip beside him. I think he's a decent second cb but when he's the one who has to take control and cover he's shown up. He's a decent cb when he's attacking the ball. Tbh there's not THAT many 2nd cbs better than him. Is he any worse than Cahill, Rojo, Stones at the moment? I wouldn't say so.

Not that we can't improve on him, we 100% can but there are bigger issues in the squad right now.

Tbh i don't have an issue with any member of the squad right now but it still feels unbalanced. We don't have enough pace. Put more pace into the squad and i don't think we have these issues. Not sure there's anyone with blinding pace coming through the youth ranks either so I think thats where we're gonna end up buying.

Also if we could get Dahoud it would be huge. He'd be the Lallana replacement in midfield that we REALLY miss right now.

Alonso77

This is our first consistent bad spell of the season.

Hopefully we'll improve soon and get the mojo back.

That's all I got.