Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Turtyturd

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Anyone that says klopp needs to go needs their head examined.

Strange alright, I'd be shocked at coming across anyone thinking that, sceptical of bumping into numbers saying it.

Boom_Bap

Boom_Bap wrote: »

................

I also think that it's time to bring Sahko back into the first team ahead of Lovren.

I don't think Klopp will do that. Sahko too much of a character/pest/distraction I expect. No turning back now IMO

Boom_Bap

Augeo wrote: »

I don't think Klopp will do that. Sahko too much of a character/pest/distraction I expect. No turning back now IMO

I agree on that, Klopp wont.....but I'd much prefer him to Lovren at the moment, although Lovren didn't do too much wrong last night.
Sahko and Matip is in my reckoning a much better partnership.

Knex*

I think, and have been saying for a while, that it was very predictable that we were going to burn out a bit, tbh. The nature of the tactics, the league, the small squad, the knock on effect of overachieving and being brought back to the norm.

I don't think there's any reason to panic though. We'll still be in the fight for top 4 come the end of the season, in my opinion, and that's pretty much all any sane person could have asked for in the summer.

People are too quick to get caught up in the purple patches or the inevitable down turns. We're not title challengers, nor are we a mid table team. We're somewhere between 4-6, with the potential perhaps to finish higher and win a cup.

We've no CL football, a favorable fixture list, players coming back, and young players who will put this behind them and get over the hump in time.

Its a long season, and we're par for course tbh.

Francie Barrett

rob316 wrote: »

Liverpool fans are fickle and football fans in general, but I'm shocked at the people I have met this morning saying that Klopp needs to go. The first sign of trouble and we should change the manager? Ridiculous!

He is the reason we are in the Top 4 so far, he has given us ever chance of finishing there too. I mostly disappointed with his in game management, his use of subs drives me mad.

Did anyone say he needs to go?

54and56

Knex. wrote: »

I think, and have been saying for a while, that it was very predictable that we were going to burn out a bit, tbh.

The tweets from the former Welsh coach who has been banging on about how Klopp's training methods won't sustain a full season and/or lead to injuries and burnout look increasingly like he has a point:



A deeper squad of first 11 quality players (very little youth or "squad" players) who are frequently rotated/rested and all of whom fit the playing style (bye bye Sturridge) along with smarter and more frequent use of subs must be the learning Klopp has to take from this season.

Let's not forget this is the first season where Klopp has had a full pre-season to prepare. Lessons have to learned and implemented for next season to avoid another mid season slump. More players coming in who fit the style and are on a par or better than the existing first 11, players who don't suit the style out the door inc Sturridge and Sakho (fits the style but not the right attitude) as well as a new commanding GK who is PL proven i.e. Forster, Butland, Hart or even Begovic.

Every day is a school day. Every person has their weakness. I hope Klopp's weakness isn't an inability to accept he has to adopt his preferred methodology to one which is both effective (as seen in the first few months of the season) and sustainable for the duration of the season.

Agent Coulson

Verheijen really.


Ok right i expect lots of hamstrings to go then in the coming weeks as well.



The end is nigh.

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

The tweets from the former Welsh coach who has been banging on about how Klopp's training methods won't sustain a full season and/or lead to injuries and burnout look increasingly like he has a point:....................

Not at all.
The major problem is Sturridge

54and56

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Verheijen really.

I'm not suggesting he's infallible or knows more than anyone else about conditioning of players but he does have an impressive CV to back up his claims.

His comments just after Gary Speed's funeral and the way he bombastically criticises many top managers and coaches for the way they over train players (not just Klopp) isn't very diplomatic but the core of what he is saying should be examined on it's merit rather than dismissed because the person saying it isn't a very nice character.

If there's a better reason for why the team has slumped than the sustainability of the gegenpressing style over a full English season with no winter break using a thin squad (inc injuries and AFCON commitments) lets hear it?

Raisins

It's in the best interest of the club to sell Sturbridge if a great bid comes in, he's not playing as well as he was, he doesn't really suit our system and he's a huge earner so I agree with selling him in principle but the trashing he's getting is way ott.

He deserves a lot more respect. Given he was a bit of a moneyball signing his attitude has been very good overall. He has interacted with the fans really well, for example I think I remember him putting a photo of a young Irish fan that initially missed his autograph but later met him on the street up on his Instagram and giving him his jersey earlier this season. That's not a big deal but he didn't have to do that and he think his contribution overall deserves more respect.

On the pitch he's scored some huge goals for us over the last few seasons. Had things gone slightly differently he'd be the hero who scored over 20 league goals with 7 assists the year we won the league and stored a spectacular goal the year we won the Europa. History didn't work out like that but he's contributed to us when fit. He didn't moan publicly when klopp criticised him and dropped him. He hasn't leaked moves or unrest into the media or agitated for a move. We have had such a high number of talentless fools wearing the Liverpool jersey since the early 90's I'll be sad to see a play of his ability walk out the door. If he goes and we get a good price then well and good but I respect him and what he's done for the team over the past few seasons.

jcsoulinger

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I agree on that, Klopp wont.....but I'd much prefer him to Lovren at the moment, although Lovren didn't do too much wrong last night.
Sahko and Matip is in my reckoning a much better partnership.

Lovren and Matip have been very good when played together this season, I'm not sure how you can say Sakho and Matip would be better considering they never played together. People need to forget about Sakho even if you forget about his off field antics he never performed consistently for us anyways, The sooner we are shot of him the better.

Great post Raisins.
I look forward to seeing Sturridge score many more great goals over the coming years, unfortunately it won't be in LFC colours.

Iused2likebusts

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I'm not suggesting he's infallible or knows more than anyone else about conditioning of players but he does have an impressive CV to back up his claims.

His comments just after Gary Speed's funeral and the way he bombastically criticises many top managers and coaches for the way they over train players (not just Klopp) isn't very diplomatic but the core of what he is saying should be examined on it's merit rather than dismissed because the person saying it isn't a very nice character.

If there's a better reason for why the team has slumped than the sustainability of the gegenpressing style with a thin squad (inc injuries and AFCON commitments) lets hear it?

This is nonsense so would we have had 43 pts from the first 19 games without the gegenpressing style.

Iused2likebusts

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

This is nonsense so would we have had 43 pts from the first 19 games without the gegenpressing style.

Ok, it's nonsense..........

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

...........

If there's a better reason for why the team has slumped than the sustainability of the gegenpressing style over a full English season with no winter break using a thin squad (inc injuries and AFCON commitments) lets hear it?

So............ we're listening

Boom_Bap

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Lovren and Matip have been very good when played together this season, I'm not sure how you can say Sakho and Matip would be better considering they never played together. People need to forget about Sakho even if you forget about his off field antics he never performed consistently for us anyways, The sooner we are shot of him the better.

I'm basing it on their individual attributes and how both would mix better compared to the Matip/Lovren cocktail.
Sahko is more physical and probably positionally better than Lovren. He can also play the ball out of defence accurately and quickly as opposed to Lovren who wants a sideways pass to his defensive partner or Milner.
Matip is cool and composed and a strong sturdy chap as well and has no problem holding on to the ball if needs be.
Also, both would be more commanding in the air than Lovren, a lot of our problems this year have been about clearing the ball from defence and letting the ball bounce.

I'm not saying that it'd work, but I personally think it's worth a shot. Review from the U-23's about Sahko have been pretty decent as well I believe.

EDIT: I should add that Lovren and Matip havent been bad, but we could be a whole lot better....maybe.

J Mysterio

Sakho slide tackles better than anyone I have seen in the modern era. It's a real shame we're missing out on that.

Could Klopp change his mind? I doubt it.
We don't know what Sakho is like day to day though so maybe he should be out. Still, he's kept his head down sonce hos last supid outburst a few months ago. Is there no redemption for him?

54and56

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

This is nonsense so would we have had 43 pts from the first 19 games without the gegenpressing style.

Well Chelsea had 49 points from their non Gegenpressing style after 19 game including a loss at home to us

I do the odd 10km run and I'm by no means fast but I always get to the finish line unlike some who tear off the first couple of KM's and the burn out and either don't finish, get injured or finish way back just about hauling themselves over the line.

The PL is 38 game marathon not a 19 game sprint.

BorneTobyWilde

One thing I do know is Klopp is the solution not the problem.

Henderson is no Gerrard
Sturridge is no Suarez
Can is no Alonso
Karius no Reina

These are problems

54and56

Augeo wrote: »

So............ we're listening

Are you really though Augeo my old son are you really?

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

A deeper squad of first 11 quality players (very little youth or "squad" players) who are frequently rotated/rested and all of whom fit the playing style (bye bye Sturridge) along with smarter and more frequent use of subs must be the learning Klopp has to take from this season.

Turtyturd

It seems like some people go for a run during our games and believe we press the opposition for 90 minutes because they've read that's how Klopp teams play.

BorneTobyWilde

We have little quality in the heart of the team, from a keeper to defence to midfield. No heart.
We have quality around pitch here and there in Lallana, Coutinho, Mane and Firmino. It gets us so far, if we can avoid conceding during a game.
It's pretty naive to be getting exposed so easily, we really need our full backs to have some patience. Let the front line see what they can do for 60 mins and keep a clean sheet. We can always be more daring later in game if we needed to be. You might find though that we do indeed score in 58th min while keeping our defensive shape.

Knex*

Turtyturd wrote: »

It seems like some people go for a run during our games and believe we press the opposition for 90 minutes because they've read that's how Klopp teams play.

We still almost run 120km a game. That's very hard, if not impossible, to sustain with such a small squad.

Even with the ball, when opponents sit back, we have an intense enough style of play. Its not a slow tempo, tiki taka type event.

super_furry

I think time might be running out for Origi. He hasn't developed at all and is exactly the same player he was when he first came into the squad. He looks raw and pacey but isn't living up to his potential.

Turtyturd

Knex. wrote: »

Even with the ball, when opponents sit back, we have an intense enough style of play. Its not a slow tempo, tiki taka type event.

That's exactly what it's been recently unfortunately.

Agent Coulson

We had overhauled the squad way to many times over the previous decade


At the end of the Rafa era then with Roy, Kenny and the previous manager the squad was thrown down and rebuild nearly every season.


It was time to stop doing that and build a long term squad that is what Klopp is doing to keep consistency from what I can see Matip, Wijnaldum & Mane were all added to the first team this season to improve the starting 11.


You need foundations laid and that is what I see so far under Klopp.

Turtyturd

super_furry wrote: »

I think time might be running out for Origi. He hasn't developed at all and is exactly the same player he was when he first came into the squad. He looks raw and pacey but isn't living up to his potential.

Harsh on him I think. Decision making can be poor at times, but he's had two very good spells in the team over the last 2 seasons.

rob316

Raisins wrote: »

It's in the best interest of the club to sell Sturbridge if a great bid comes in, he's not playing as well as he was, he doesn't really suit our system and he's a huge earner so I agree with selling him in principle but the trashing he's getting is way ott.

He deserves a lot more respect. Given he was a bit of a moneyball signing his attitude has been very good overall. He has interacted with the fans really well, for example I think I remember him putting a photo of a young Irish fan that initially missed his autograph but later met him on the street up on his Instagram and giving him his jersey earlier this season. That's not a big deal but he didn't have to do that and he think his contribution overall deserves more respect.

On the pitch he's scored some huge goals for us over the last few seasons. Had things gone slightly differently he'd be the hero who scored over 20 league goals with 7 assists the year we won the league and stored a spectacular goal the year we won the Europa. History didn't work out like that but he's contributed to us when fit. He didn't moan publicly when klopp criticised him and dropped him. He hasn't leaked moves or unrest into the media or agitated for a move. We have had such a high number of talentless fools wearing the Liverpool jersey since the early 90's I'll be sad to see a play of his ability walk out the door. If he goes and we get a good price then well and good but I respect him and what he's done for the team over the past few seasons.

Great post.

I seen some absolute bums over the years in that Liverpool jersey and down right flops, Sturridge is certainly not in that category. A real high quality striker who just didn't have the fitness to be one of our greatest ever and anyone who argues that knows nothing about football. This notion that he was hanging onto the coat tails, of Suarez is a fallacy also. Sturridge won many games for us with and without Suarez.
Never caused unrest and in general is a good guy by all accounts. Wherever he goes next I will be looking out for him and will remember some fantastic goals he scored.

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Are you really though Augeo my old son are you really?

Of course I am, was interested in what Iused2likebusts reckons is the issue tbh.

Boom_Bap

super_furry wrote: »

I think time might be running out for Origi. He hasn't developed at all and is exactly the same player he was when he first came into the squad. He looks raw and pacey but isn't living up to his potential.

Have to agree, he's had plenty of time and first team action, he should be doing more for us by now. He has flashes of excellence in some games, but not enough end product.
I'd rather see Ojo in the squad ahead of him at this stage as he looks like he would develop quicker and provide more of an impact.

BorneTobyWilde

super_furry wrote: »

I think time might be running out for Origi. He hasn't developed at all and is exactly the same player he was when he first came into the squad. He looks raw and pacey but isn't living up to his potential.

The fact that Klopp has turned Firmino in a striker is causing problems as it's taking up that position for an actual striker.


Cylne__Matip_Lovern__Milner

______Henderson_____

___Lallana___Coutinho____

Mane_______________Firmino
________Costa____________

Ideally we'd have players where the actually belong . You need that 30 goal a season player to lead line. Need to find one.

rob316

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We had overhauled the squad way to many times over the previous decade


At the end of the Rafa era then with Roy, Kenny and the previous manager the squad was thrown down and rebuild nearly every season.


It was time to stop doing that and build a long term squad that is what Klopp is doing to keep consistency from what I can see Matip, Wijnaldum & Mane were all added to the first team this season to improve the starting 11.


You need foundations laid and that is what I see so far under Klopp.

I absolutely agree, but this is his 3rd window, a squad clearly lacking much depth, needs more than 1 player per window. More should be done and if the club are just been tight, then shame we have a world class manager who deserves to be supported.

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The fact that Klopp has turned Firmino in a striker is causing problems as it's taking up that position for an actual striker.


Cylne__Matip_Lovern__Milner

______Henderson_____

___Lallana___Coutinho____

Mane_______________Firmino
________Costa____________

Ideally we'd have players where the actually belong . You need that 30 goal a season player to lead line. Need to find one.

Central Bobby is our Costa

jones

Liverpool's squad is easily the weakest of the top 6 at the moment and not being in europe is only disguising the fact this season. I dont think just buying players for the sake of it is the answer but as someone mentioned above liverpool don't have a bench. We've a decent first 11 when everyone is fit and not on international duty but after that its kids or just not good enough's.

Iused2likebusts

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Well Chelsea had 49 points from their non Gegenpressing style after 19 game including a loss at home to us

I do the odd 10km run and I'm by no means fast but I always get to the finish line unlike some who tear off the first couple of KM's and the burn out and either don't finish, get injured or finish way back just about hauling themselves over the line.

The PL is 38 game marathon not a 19 game sprint.

I get that but I'd argue we wouldn't have had 43 pts from 19 games without klopps style. Jan has been poor there is no disputing that. However late December and the month of Jan is our most intense period of the season. From Feb on we will be back to 1 game a week. Its his style ,next year he will have a bigger squad to deal with a heavier workload. This season its really only a 6-7 week period when we needed a much bigger squad. My argument would be that klopps style brought us more points than another style would have up till new year. Arguments could be made that klopps style has hindered us in January and cost us points and my money would be on klopps style gaining us more pts than another style when the current cramped fixture list eases. Stay calm would be my advice he knows what he is doing.

BorneTobyWilde

Augeo wrote: »

Central Bobby is our Costa

Our 1 in 7 striker

54and56

jones wrote: »

Liverpool's squad is easily the weakest of the top 6 at the moment and not being in europe is only disguising the fact this season. I dont think just buying players for the sake of it is the answer but as someone mentioned above liverpool don't have a bench. We've a decent first 11 when everyone is fit and not on international duty but after that its kids or just not good enough's.

That + the attrition of running 120km per game (even the ones I go out for a run myself during) is taking its toll. When a hard running/pressing game loses it's tempo it loses its effectiveness and that's what we are seeing. With Mane in the side over the last few games maybe the results wouldn't have been quite so bad but just like the rest of the players he isn't super human either so is just as likely to have lost some zip.

If the plan is to keep playing Hendo, Gigi, Lallana, Coutinho, Mane and Firmino for the remaining 16 games or so there's a danger one or more of them will just burn out all together or get a bad injury etc. Balancing the twin objectives of achieving top 4 and CL football in order to attract better players and have a more balanced squad next year Vs giving some of our ever present players (Firmino, Mane, Lallana) a rest is not something I'd like to have responsibility for.

Knex*

Sturridge just doesn't sprint anymore. He doesn't play the shoulder, or get on the end of through balls, or run into channels.

I remember before someone pointing out how many top speed sprints he had in a game, and it was insane. And he was regularly the player with the fastest sprints on the pitch. Nowadays he must be one of the slowest.

I have no idea if its all physical, or if he's still mentally holding himself back in fear of breaking down injured again. Either way, as good as he can be with the ball, his main weapon and purpose is gone.

Knex*

Also, on Mane. No idea how he's looking for Senegal, but he was looking damn tired for us in his last few games. I wouldn't expect him to come back and be sprinting around the place, solving all our issues straight off the bat.

jayo26

super_furry wrote: »

I think time might be running out for Origi. He hasn't developed at all and is exactly the same player he was when he first came into the squad. He looks raw and pacey but isn't living up to his potential.

Sorry to interupting guys but thia is way over the top he is 21 years old and making his may in an up and down team while playing as a bit of a squad player I think he is one of the most exciting younger players ye have.

7 or 8 goals from a young player learning his way aint a bad return and its only gone past half ways threw the season if he gets another 5 it won't be bad going for him.

Boom_Bap

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

That + the attrition of running 120km per game (even the ones I go out for a run myself during) is taking its toll. When a hard running/pressing game loses it's tempo it loses its effectiveness and that's what we are seeing. With Mane in the side over the last few games maybe the results wouldn't have been quite so bad but just like the rest of the players he isn't super human either so is just as likely to have lost some zip.

If the plan is to keep playing Hendo, Gigi, Lallana, Coutinho, Mane and Firmino for the remaining 16 games or so there's a danger one or more of them will just burn out all together or get a bad injury etc. Balancing the twin objectives of achieving top 4 and CL football in order to attract better players and have a more balanced squad next year Vs giving some of our ever present players (Firmino, Mane, Lallana) a rest is not something I'd like to have responsibility for.

The running game only works if all people are doing it. When Sturridge is playing, that is broken and we are essentially 10 men.
When Can is playing, it's negated by his backwards stype of play or running head down into space with the ball.

54and56

Boom_Bap wrote: »

The running game only works if all people are doing it. When Sturridge is playing, that is broken and we are essentially 10 men.

True which is why Sturridge should be sold this window regardless of even getting in another striker. The way we play he is no use so why even have him in the squad? He's currently fit(ish), not getting any younger and there must be 2-3 PL teams in the smelly stuff who would go all in on him to get them out of trouble and if they played to his strengths they probably would e.g. Swansea if they sell Llorente, West Ham where he'd be a good foil for Carroll and Palace where big Sam would use him the way he used Defoe last year.

Boom_Bap wrote: »

When Can is playing, it's negated by his backwards stype of play or running head down into space with the ball.

I like Can but unfortunately he's just not built for a CM role with this team. He's too big and not mobile enough. He's powerful and maybe in a few years he could be a DM or CB even but in our system he slows things down. He puts his shift in and is brave etc but he's a square peg in a round hole and should be moved onto a team where he will fit in.

Boom_Bap

Can has his uses, I do still like him, maybe he just needs a chance in his career to focus on one position and let that develop.

I'm probably being over negative on a lot of things today, I suppose tis not all bad. Still have the other cup and the league aint over yet.

Sakho, Sturridge & Lucas are all no doubt gone in the Summer if not this transfer window in the case of Sakho.

However, mentions of also getting Origi, Henderson & Can out the door too are looney IMO............. we'll almost certainly have EL next year if not CL so we'll need actual squad filler for lots of games. Lads that aren't good enough and don't fit in but we won't have 20 odd players that do

J Mysterio

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The fact that Klopp has turned Firmino in a striker is causing problems as it's taking up that position for an actual striker.


Cylne__Matip_Lovern__Milner

______Henderson_____

___Lallana___Coutinho____

Mane_______________Firmino
________Costa____________

Ideally we'd have players where the actually belong . You need that 30 goal a season player to lead line. Need to find one.

Hopefully its not Costa! Jesus christ that team looks wrong.

I've already had enough fun with Suarez anyway, don't want another maniac up front.

J Mysterio

Knex. wrote: »

Sturridge just doesn't sprint anymore. He doesn't play the shoulder, or get on the end of through balls, or run into channels.

Thats just not true. If you rewatch the Southampton game you will see he was trying to prompt players (mainly Coutinho) to play it through by making a load of little runs in behind, all of the shoulder.

garra

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

True which is why Sturridge should be sold this window regardless of even getting in another striker. The way we play he is no use so why even have him in the squad? He's currently fit(ish), not getting any younger and there must be 2-3 PL teams in the smelly stuff who would go all in on him to get them out of trouble and if they played to his strengths they probably would e.g. Swansea if they sell Llorente, West Ham where he'd be a good foil for Carroll and Palace where big Sam would use him the way he used Defoe last year.

I like Can but unfortunately he's just not built for a CM role with this team. He's too big and not mobile enough. He's powerful and maybe in a few years he could be a DM or CB even but in our system he slows things down. He puts his shift in and is brave etc but he's a square peg in a round hole and should be moved onto a team where he will fit in.

Yes I agree Can would be better in defence than midfield. Apart from being a big lump and not particularly mobile or zippy enough for the midfield we want, he doesn't have the passing precision required and also gets flustered when pressured from different angles and has shown little awareness of where his team mates are when receiving the ball under pressure. He would be better with the pitch in front of him and no responsibilities in building the play.

J Mysterio

J Mysterio wrote: »

Thats just not true. If you rewatch the Southampton game you will see he was trying to prompt players (mainly Coutinho) to play it through by making a load of little runs in behind, all of the shoulder.

nah.......... Carragher said he does nothing when he doesn't score

Turtyturd

J Mysterio wrote: »

Thats just not true. If you rewatch the Southampton game you will see he was trying to prompt players (mainly Coutinho) to play it through by making a load of little runs in behind, all of the shoulder.

They probably realised that'd be pointless when it took him 10 minutes to chase down a ball into the channel.

BorneTobyWilde

J Mysterio wrote: »

Hopefully its not Costa! Jesus christ that team looks wrong.

I've already had enough fun with Suarez anyway, don't want another maniac up front.

If Coutinho did get to Barca he would not make front 3. He'd replace Iniesta in an attacking/play making role.

Raisins

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

True which is why Sturridge should be sold this window regardless of even getting in another striker. The way we play he is no use so whythere must be 2-3 PL teams in the smelly stuff who would go all in on him to get them out of trouble and if they played to his strengths they probably would e.g. Swansea if they sell Llorente, West Ham where he'd be a good foil for Carroll and Palace where big Sam would use him the way he used Defoe last year.

It's not just up to Liverpool. He's an England international earning 120k a week and he's contracted until 2019. C'mon there's no reality in which most of those teams could afford the transfer or wages. That American owner at Swansea is not going to give Sturridge a four year contract on 120k a week and Sturridge is never going to move to some relegation strugglers in Wales. Outside the top 6 only West Ham could potentially afford him after they get Payet off the books even then I'd be surprised. Palace struggled to afford the £27m fee for benteke and he took a wage cut to go there. They're not coming back with 40m and 120k a week for a guy who could be out for the rest of the season tomorrow morning. It's not just up to the club to decide to sell him this window because it makes sense for us.