Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

shamrock55

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rescuing the club from the wreckage of the H&G era? Dealing with the debt? Financing the new stand (hopefully doing the Anfield Rd end too)? I'm not saying FSG can't be criticised, but a little perspective should be considered before one is to start lobbing nuclear warheads in response to the current problems.

They saved us fair enough,and built the new stand fantastic,but this is all done with themselves in mind down the line

mickmackey1

Yea 3 in 2012 under Rodgers.

kippy

niallo27 wrote: »

Them days are gone man. Let's not fool ourselves. We have to prioritise. All the top clubs treat the fa cup this way. That is just modern football.

Its not just the cup though is it?

kingshankly

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Yea 3 in 2012 under Rodgers.

Swansea Southampton and wolves have all come to anfield this week and won
Doesn't bear thinking about

murpho999

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Yea 3 in 2012 under Rodgers.

Where they all home games?

shamrock55

shamrock55 wrote: »

They saved us fair enough,and built the new stand fantastic,but this is all done with themselves in mind down the line

I'd say most of the owners of clubs have this in mind be they individuals or consortiums. Hopefully the better motivated ones DO want to please the fanbase as well, but at the end of the day they are private businesses and such entities don't tend to last long when cash coming in is consistently less than cash going out.

kippy

shamrock55 wrote: »

All fsg are interested in is lining their own pockets,klopp suits them down to the ground because he was never a big spender and they know that

FSG are no different to most other owners and indeed most players and managers.

Raisins

J Mysterio wrote: »

Thats pretty stupid. Winning cups matters a great deal, its the whole point really.

Gerrards favourite goals - probably his best goals - are his goals against Olympiakos and West Ham. Olympiakos kept the Champions League dream alive. His goal against West Ham was a wonder moment and part of why its so special to him and to us is that it kept us in the game in the FA Cup final, which of course we went on to win. It mattered. The FA cup matters.

I'm not talking about the champions league, ask Kenny how much the cups matter.

One_Of_Shanks

Didn't intend posting here again but jaysus it's hard reading with all the negativity. What happened today is probably the best thing that could have happened us, despite that sounding like an awful thing to say.

We paid the price last season for going for cups and ended up with nothing to show for the season.
By the time the season ended we weren't far off top-4 but focus had long-since switched to the cups and the trouble with cups is that you only have to lose one game.
Had we gone all out for top-4 and never bothered with cups, I think we would have made up the ground in the league. The gap from us to top-4 in the end wasn't big.

I was delighted that we weren't in the Europa League this season.
Because I figured we would just go all out for top-4 and this club badly needs to get back into the champions league for a million different reasons, both financial and non-financial.

But no, we got sucked into going for the EFL cup and added more strain to a wafer thin squad.
And this isn't just any wafer thin squad, this is a wafer thin squad that's entire philosophy revolves around out-running your opponent.
And even if we had gone on to win it and finished 5th would it be a good season?
Not really, this club needs a champions league season or two more than it needs a cup imo.
Just now, it's more important.

So today might not be a bad thing at all.
Sometimes good things evolve from bad moments.
If we can get through Tuesday with even a draw and then get back to having a week to prepare for games and a fresher squad then we will be fine. We know that because it was only 6 weeks ago that we were a great team and despite all the panic, you don't go from that to ****e and stay that way.
We will hit back.

kippy

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Didn't intend posting here again but jaysus it's hard reading with all the negativity. What happened today is probably the best thing that could have happened us, despite that sounding like an awful thing to say.

We paid the price last season for going for cups and ended up with nothing to show for the season.
By the time the season ended we weren't far off top-4 but focus had long-since switched to the cups and the trouble with cups is that you only have to lose one game.
Had we gone all out for top-4 and never bothered with cups, I think we would have made up the ground in the league. The gap from us to top-4 in the end wasn't big.

I was delighted that we weren't in the Europa League this season.
Because I figured we would just go all out for top-4 and this club badly needs to get back into the champions league for a million different reasons, both financial and non-financial.

But no, we got sucked into going for the EFL cup and added more strain to a wafer thin squad.
And this isn't just any wafer thin squad, this is a wafer thin squad that's entire philosophy revolves around out-running your opponent.
And even if we had gone on to win it and finished 5th would it be a good season?
Not really, this club needs a champions league season or two more than it needs a cup imo.
Just now, it's more important.

So today might not be a bad thing at all.
Sometimes good things evolve from bad moments.
If we can get through Tuesday with even a draw and then get back to having a week to prepare for games and a fresher squad then we will be fine. We know that because it was only 6 weeks ago that we were a great team and despite all the panic, you don't go from that to ****e and stay that way.
We will hit back.

From a financial point of view the champions league isn't really that big a deal any more for a club like Liverpool. The PL television money and commercial revenues that a club like Liverpool make aren't that wildly effected by CL money.
If the reason for getting into the CL is to attract a better calibre of player - well I don't buy that. It's not as big a deal as it once was and players have plenty options when it comes to money elsewhere.
Ultimately a club should be trying to win as many trophies as possible - do you want to turn into Arsenal - if you aren't there already? Supporting a club that literally qualifies for the CL every year and does not much else - milking fans for all they are worth?

There have been a lot of bad moments over the past number of years and no good moments coming from them - that's just crazy speak.
Also, hard to see where the hit back will come from. The form is on the floor, confidence cannot be far behind it.

NukaCola

A really awful time to hit a poor patch of form, its disappointing but to put a positive spin on it we now have one thing to focus on. Losing out on top 4 with the position we have/had would be a bigger blow than any of the cup exits so really need to bounce back. Still in a great position in the league and all to play for for top 4. The club badly needs CL football back regularly.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

do you want to turn into Arsenal

Speaking of them, Southampton are getting a right spanking at the moment. 3 down after 35 mins. It's really showing how sh*te January has been for us.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Just a quick note, lads.

When you get the time later on, could someone throw all the toys back into the pram?

It's turning into a Health and Safety issue now?

Thanks.

brevity

I don't understand the logic of preferring to be out be out of the cups so that the club can get into the Champions league. I mean if Liverpool can't compete in the league and the cups then they won't be able to compete in the CL and the league.

Agent Coulson

The week that's in I'm betting Cameroon win but Mane rips his hamstring.

OwaynOTT

It's real pisshorn football at the moment and it's as disappointing as that is.
Roll on Tuesday, hopefully the boys are well rested and are up for the match.

Iused2likebusts

brevity wrote: »

I don't understand the logic of preferring to be out be out of the cups so that the club can get into the Champions league. I mean if Liverpool can't compete in the league and the cups then they won't be able to compete in the CL and the league.

We will have a different bigger squad next year if thats the case. Klopp knew at the start of this season that we had no European football so adjusted his squad in the summer accordingly.

One_Of_Shanks

kippy wrote: »

From a financial point of view the champions league isn't really that big a deal any more for a club like Liverpool. The PL television money and commercial revenues that a club like Liverpool make aren't that wildly effected by CL money.
If the reason for getting into the CL is to attract a better calibre of player - well I don't buy that. It's not as big a deal as it once was and players have plenty options when it comes to money elsewhere.
Ultimately a club should be trying to win as many trophies as possible - do you want to turn into Arsenal - if you aren't there already? Supporting a club that literally qualifies for the CL every year and does not much else - milking fans for all they are worth?

There have been a lot of bad moments over the past number of years and no good moments coming from them - that's just crazy speak.
Also, hard to see where the hit back will come from. The form is on the floor, confidence cannot be far behind it.

I'm not looking for any arguments fella but you're taking a hell of a leap from what I said to us becoming Arsenal.

Arsenal can do what Arsenal do, I'm only concerned with us.
And right now it's very important that we get back into the champions league, cups can come later.

Right now we have the best manager that we've had in donkey's and it's important that we push on and give ourselves the best chance we can get of attracting the best players we can get because this will be a big Summer for us.

Just ask yourself, do we have a better chance of doing that if we get top-4 or if we win a domestic cup?

kippy

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

I'm not looking for any arguments fella but you're taking a hell of a leap from what I said to us becoming Arsenal.

Arsenal can do what Arsenal do, I'm only concerned with us.
And right now it's very important that we get back into the champions league, cups can come later.

Right now we have the best manager that we've had in donkey's and it's important that we push on and give ourselves the best chance we can get of attracting the best players we can get because this will be a big Summer for us.

Just ask yourself, do we have a better chance of doing that if we get top-4 or if we win a domestic cup?

Every Summer is a big summer. Just like every January is a big January.
And I haven't really taken a hell of a leap.

The CL isn't the be all and end all or even close to it.
Why support a club if your only desire for that club is to finish fourth?
Not being in the cups isn't a guarentee of anything and the decrepid current form at the club does not bode well for the upcoming league matches were as a cup final and/or advancement in another would surely have improved morale etc.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The week that's in I'm betting Cameroon win but Mane rips his hamstring.

8-10

Mané starts anyway

One_Of_Shanks

kippy wrote: »

Why support a club if your only desire for that club is to finish fourth?

Ah man, I never said that. And you know I didn't.

Gbear

shamrock55 wrote: »

Doesn't matter who the manager is TBH,they won't part with the cash anyway

You've already been proven to be completely wrong.

They have.

jesus_thats_gre

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I said a couple of days ago that we need a few top signings only to be shot down.

It massively clear what we have outside our starting 11 (and even that isn't top notch) is extremely poor and isn't up to it

We need some decent signings. They don't need to be expensive, they just need to improve our squad.

5starpool

On it's own, what happened today wouldn't unnecessarily bother me, but on top of all that has come this month it has really pissed me off. On Tuesday night we'll probably put in a better performance but it'll be fairly defensive and we'll get a draw or some such. The away game at Hull next Sunday has me more worried pretty much.

If anyone says that the players are tired, then obviously Jan was busy (but 3 of those games were played with second strings) and the season in total will have consisted of only 46 games, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty low (and several of those in the cups were with second string teams).

BorneTobyWilde

We're having no luck.
Nothing is dropping for us while everything is falling into the lap of the opposition.

Gbear

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The week that's in I'm betting Cameroon win but Mane rips his hamstring.

That's the mental thing about the lack of cover for Mane. The ACON was a guaranteed period of time he'd be missing, but it's probably near enough 50/50 that he'll end up missing half the season in total given other injuries and all that on top of the internationals.
He won't be fresh as a daisy when he comes back either, and he already looked tired since about November.


It shouldn't have to be an either/or for league or domestic cups.

What the **** is the point if we're not even going to try and win trophies?

In some circumstances I can understand prioritising one or the other, but domestics cups really aren't that onerous and when all of our rivals also have european football we're already at an advantage anyway.

If we'd won something lately it might be different even then, but there's teenagers now who remember us winning nothing at all.
What young supporters are arsed about Liverpool? What young players dream at night of playing for a team who don't care about winning things anymore?
Who in this team has any experience of being a champion of anything?

One_Of_Shanks

5starpool wrote: »

If anyone says that the players are tired, then obviously Jan was busy (but 3 of those games were played with second strings) and the season in total will have consisted of only 46 games, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty low (and several of those in the cups were with second string teams).

Tired is probably the wrong word.

But whatever word you use, maybe "sharpness" is more appropriate, it still applies.
We have to accept that if you play 20 games running yer sacks off the way we do, it's not the same as playing 20 games the way most other teams do.

There is a crazy amount of running involved in the way we play. And whenever that drops short we seem to look fairly ordinary.

This is why the cup runs hurt us but you'll see us kick on now that we're out of them.

We'll get 4th now that we only have the league to focus on. I'd put my house on it.

Irishmale0399

Lads its very simple....if anyone ever followed Klopps career as a manager he has always had someone else buying his players. Zorc did and is still doing it at Dortmund, Heidl at Mainz if I am not mistaken...Maybe our next big signing should be someone with an eye for a player or someone who can identify a player and make a signing whilst speaking to Klopp and his team in the final stages of the process instead of how it seems to be today.....player is identified, Klopp gives OK and the player has signed for another team or his club wont let him go.

The problems the club are having at the moment are a mix of a number of things....not getting the rub of the green (UEFA-Matip, offside goals...), injuries, lack of players*, clubs so called committee not bringing in players or suggesting players Klopp wants......players out of form.

We should also take the following into consideration:
- FSG have always said they would run the club as a business and wouldnt spend above the clubs means....question here is...what can we really afford in the eyes of FSG
- He changed his fitness coach over the summer....first season getting to know the PL and players needs.
- Changed the dietician..same as above
- Blooding young players...will stand to us in the near future or result in players being shipped out if not good enough.
- Young players getting time on the pitch is positive when trying to sign other young lads....we play ours will be the selling point.

* to the lack of players.....it suits the owners of the club in my opinion to play it as we are at the moment. Not spending means the owners are making profit, breaking even or minimal loss. This allows them in the background to fight for UEFA Financial Fair Play and to follow the model they know from the states.
Add to that that Klopp has never publically requested players at any of his clubs.....sure its a walk in the park for them. The boat wont be destablised and everyone will be happy......no negitive press for sponsors etc.etc.

Gbear

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Tired is probably the wrong word.

But whatever word you use, maybe "sharpness" is more appropriate, it still applies.
We have to accept that if you play 20 games running yer sacks off the way we do, it's not the same as playing 20 games the way most other teams do.

There is a crazy amount of running involved in the way we play. And whenever that drops short we seem to look fairly ordinary.

This is why the cup runs hurt us but you'll see us kick on now that we're out of them.

We'll get 4th now that we only have the league to focus on. I'd put my house on it.

The things I'd expect to go wrong with that aren't going wrong though.

We're not ceding position because our counter-press isn't working. We seem to have more than ever.

We're not scoring goals from turnovers high up the field anymore, but that doesn't explain why we can't break teams down.

We don't even appear to be conceding many more goals than before. We're not really struggling to get back on defence any more than we did previously as far as I can tell.

The lack of energy should lead to imperfection - not sheer cluelessness and disarray.

kippy

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Ah man, I never said that. And you know I didn't.

Well, what do you want to get out of the relationship then?

One_Of_Shanks

Gbear wrote: »

The things I'd expect to go wrong with that aren't going wrong though.

Not to be rude or dismiss your post fella but if you're lacking sharpness then all those things you mentioned tend to happen.

eyerer

I think it's important to win trophies. Though the sad truth since Rafa is we've won one trophy and got top 4 once. Getting either would be an improvement on the last lot of years.
I'm sad to lose today, its never good to lose. After 30 mins I could tell it was the same ineptness in the performance. I think this loss takes the slump even lower. Oh and Southampton getting hammered as well doesn't help! - a time that beat us home and away. If Chelsea turn up on Tuesday, there could be an embarrassment.
Really think someone could have been signed to help the squad depth.

5starpool

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Tired is probably the wrong word.

But whatever word you use, maybe "sharpness" is more appropriate, it still applies.
We have to accept that if you play 20 games running yer sacks off the way we do, it's not the same as playing 20 games the way most other teams do.

There is a crazy amount of running involved in the way we play. And whenever that drops short we seem to look fairly ordinary.

This is why the cup runs hurt us but you'll see us kick on now that we're out of them.

We'll get 4th now that we only have the league to focus on. I'd put my house on it.

You are essentially saying that Klopp should not be our manager. This is the way his teams play. Dortmund never seemed to run out of steam in the middle of the season, and if it is as extreme as you and others are suggesting, then the 2-3 week mid season break they have wouldn't be enough to recuperate them. Very few of our players have played nearly all of our games this season.

So the answer would seem to be either get 20+ players who are as good as each other and can come in interchangeably with no real loss of cohesion (difficult to do and very, very expensive) or else get a new manager who plays a different way.

I don't buy those arguments. We're playing rubbish lately, but I think it's more down to how other teams are playing, combined with injuries, combined with a thin squad.

If we get a run of games with Mane, Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana all playing, we will be appreciably better. My belief that having those 4 in the team is essential is a testament to how thin the squad is. We need reinforcements who can interchange (without having 20+ of first team quality) but if he can't sign who he wants to sign I think he is right not to sign players he doesn't really think will fit in or improve us.

Skylinehead

eyerer wrote: »

. Oh and Southampton getting hammered as well doesn't help! - a time that beat us home and away.

In fairness, the Southampton we played was vastly different to the Southampton you played.

5starpool

Skylinehead wrote: »

In fairness, the Southampton we played was vastly different to the Southampton you played.

Get out of here with your facts. They have no place in here.

TitianGerm

shamrock55 wrote: »

They saved us fair enough,and built the new stand fantastic,but this is all done with themselves in mind down the line

That's the way business works. Your boss doesn't pay you out of the goodness of his heart, he pays you so you turn up to work and you then work hard and add to profitability.

One_Of_Shanks

kippy wrote: »

Well, what do you want to get out of the relationship then?

Haha, jeez kippy, you seem determined to find fault with me.

Let's take a few steps back before we go forward. I posted about it being a good thing to exit the cups coz our priority should be top 4 right now and we don't have the depth to be going for both.
I said lets leave the cups for a later day.

From that you deduced that I want us to be the new Arsenal.

I tried to explain my reasons for us needing top-4 right now.

Now you're asking what I want from my "relationship" with Liverpool?
Is this where I say "trophies" and you get to say why are you happy we're out of the cups?

Look, all I want is the best for the club I love. Same as you I'd imagine.
Our preferences for how we go about it may differ but there wouldn't be much need for this forum if we all agreed.

One_Of_Shanks

5starpool wrote: »

You are essentially saying that Klopp should not be our manager.

What? Good Lord, I've never said anything of the sort.

I'm Klopp's biggest fan.

What I'm saying is that we need a bigger squad if we want to go for cups

Christ.

Buford T. Justice XIX

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Christ.

Good on crosses I hear...

super_furry

Think back to the summer. Was anyone happy with our transfer dealings? We failed to address key areas of weakness in the squad and didn't actually spend any money, ending the transfer window with a profit. Liverpool as a club are not recruiting the players they need to improve into a title winning side and a manager like Klopp can only do so much with the likes of Moreno.

Liverpool started the summer needing a new striker, fullback and centre back and still need them now.

One_Of_Shanks

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Good on crosses I hear...

LOL. Still wouldn't score from one of our corners coz they're always on the front defender's head
Doesn't matter whether it's Henderson or Milner, they always do the 2 hands in the air signal before taking the corner.
I wonder what the signal is intended to mean? ****e corner incoming is my guess

Agent Coulson

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Good on crosses I hear...

Crouchie would agree he's been getting on the end of them of late.

Turtyturd

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Doesn't matter whether it's Henderson or Milner, they always do the 2 hands in the air signal before taking the corner.
I wonder what the signal is intended to mean? ****e corner incoming is my guess

What the f*ck is up with that?

Knex*

The fact that people point towards Mane and his importance to how we play, should at least give some confidence in the fact that Klopp knows the type of players he needs for his team & system.

So while we're on a bad run and people may be crying out for new signings, if the right players aren't available until the summer, we probably have to accept that and trust Klopp.

This has been a shocking month, especially after all the praise that was heaped upon the club at the start of the year. Interesting to see how we progress now.

One_Of_Shanks

Turtyturd wrote: »

What the f*ck is up with that?

No idea. But it's every feckin time.

And you just know before the corner is taken that it's gonna be bad.

A corner to us is actually akin to a kick-out to the other team.

Thanx 4 The Fish

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

A corner to us is actually akin to a kick-out to the other team.

With the added bonus for them that all of our players are out of position!

kippy

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Haha, jeez kippy, you seem determined to find fault with me.

Let's take a few steps back before we go forward. I posted about it being a good thing to exit the cups coz our priority should be top 4 right now and we don't have the depth to be going for both.
I said lets leave the cups for a later day.

From that you deduced that I want us to be the new Arsenal.

I tried to explain my reasons for us needing top-4 right now.

Now you're asking what I want from my "relationship" with Liverpool?
Is this where I say "trophies" and you get to say why are you happy we're out of the cups?

Look, all I want is the best for the club I love. Same as you I'd imagine.
Our preferences for how we go about it may differ but there wouldn't be much need for this forum if we all agreed.

Your reasoning for top 4 priority makes absolutely no sense in the current environment.
Whats best for the club is very obviously winning trophies. Reducing chances of same is completely counter productive.

corwill

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

No idea. But it's every feckin time.

And you just know before the corner is taken that it's gonna be bad.

A corner to us is actually akin to a kick-out to the other team.

It's at the stage where we'd be almost better off just conceding a goal kick straight from the corner and contesting possession from that. Just kick it straight out. Or better again, for an opposition throw in.

It ****ing boils my piss that paid professionals can be so consistently inept in something they know will happen every single game.

One_Of_Shanks

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

LOL. Still wouldn't score from one of our corners coz they're always on the front defender's head
Doesn't matter whether it's Henderson or Milner, they always do the 2 hands in the air signal before taking the corner.
I wonder what the signal is intended to mean? ****e corner incoming is my guess

It is as you say.... to signal corner coming. In the crowded box the corner taker isn't clearly seen by all so it's simply a here she comes signal.