Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

5starpool

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You are off your tits if you think we can get 2nd.

Top 4 and I will be happy. Otherwise I will be disappointed - purely because of our good start.

We certainly can get second. I'd be very surprised if we do get it,but we can.

ElTel

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Exactly!!

Out of curiosity, and I am by no means suggesting that Karius is better, has our drop in form (defensive mistakes, goals conceded etc) coincided at all with Mignolet becoming number 1 again?

Probably unfair to blame Mig on our current run but he has never been a commanding keeper and this leads to doubt amongst the defenders. I'm not a fan of Mig but it was the right call dropping Karius and now dropping Mig is the thing to do as well.

Stopping the counter attack is the issue. The professional foul is not in most of our players repertoire. Our CBs then have to backtrack which in many cases only gives the attacker a better sighter at goal.

redzerdrog

The obvious problem with the keeper aside I think another pacey wide forward would help with a lot of our other problems.

When mane is missing we would still have a threat in behind.
When Mane/Coutinho missing it would stop us trying to accommodate sturridge centrally by forcing Firmino out wide.
Also Lallana less likely to have to play wide thus missing him the the midfield 3.
Lastly when everyone fit it would give the option of playing Coutinho in the midfield 3 which would give us a different threat.

So ****e keepers aside I think a pacy wide forward would help us massively

Osmosis Jones

Chances are we're in 6th place by this time next week. If we can get a win against Spurs, then the week after when we face Leicester there is also the Manchester Derby. Win against Spurs and at least one of our rivals has got to drop points the weekend after.

Nalz

mosstin wrote: »

For anyone tempted to take the bait, this is a 14 year old who occasionally posts on the United thread and who still lights his own farts as a source of amusement. If engaged, he'll never leave but if ignored he'll resort back to his flatulent self whilst preparing for double Geography in the am.
Just engaging here so others don't have to.

A now 14 year old that registered on boards in 2008! Wow

BorneTobyWilde

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You are off your tits if you think we can get 2nd.

Top 4 and I will be happy. Otherwise I will be disappointed - purely because of our good start.

Would be silly not to aim for 2nd when we are 4 pts off of it and we play Spurs and Arsenal at Anfield. If we win those two games it puts us in a great position. We have been in this position with Rodgers where there is a chance to go for a position but instead we just let the season fizzle out.
I expect us to fight hard for that 2nd spot now, if the players let the season fizzle out now I'd be pissed off.

ElTel

redzerdrog wrote: »

The obvious problem with the keeper aside I think another pacey wide forward would help with a lot of our other problems.

When mane is missing we would still have a threat in behind.
When Mane/Coutinho missing it would stop us trying to accommodate sturridge centrally by forcing Firmino out wide.
Also Lallana less likely to have to play wide thus missing him the the midfield 3.
Lastly when everyone fit it would give the option of playing Coutinho in the midfield 3 which would give us a different threat.

So ****e keepers aside I think a pacy wide forward would help us massively

Yes pace is indeed missing especially at home and the lack of the left footer with the early cross. There is a strong case tor starting Moreno against the bus.
Whether it's at Clyne's or Milner's expense is the question.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

ElTel wrote: »

Yes pace is indeed missing especially at home and the lack of the left footer with the early cross. There is a strong case tor starting Moreno against the bus.
Whether it's at Clyne's or Milner's expense is the question.

I would never play Moreno further back than left mid now. The guy is guaranteed one major mess up per game and we already have enough players at that craic with Mig.

BorneTobyWilde

redzerdrog wrote: »

The obvious problem with the keeper aside I think another pacey wide forward would help with a lot of our other problems.

When mane is missing we would still have a threat in behind.
When Mane/Coutinho missing it would stop us trying to accommodate sturridge centrally by forcing Firmino out wide.
Also Lallana less likely to have to play wide thus missing him the the midfield 3.
Lastly when everyone fit it would give the option of playing Coutinho in the midfield 3 which would give us a different threat.

So ****e keepers aside I think a pacy wide forward would help us massively

We don't carry ball in midfield, we just put foot on it and pick a pass after pass after pass. We need to puch forward with ball into space and then lay it off. It's called penetration . We don't penetrate that first block of four let alone the second block .
We need Can to be doing more, and front 3 when they get ball. Far too much of possession football and endless passing.
I'd rather commit opposition 10 times and create a chance once than to pass it around and create nothing.
There is nothing wrong with losing ball if you lose it while creating chances. We can win ball back easily. Seems to be a fear of losing ball so we pass forever!

citytillidie

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Chances are we're in 6th place by this time next week. If we can get a win against Spurs, then the week after when we face Leicester there is also the Manchester Derby. Win against Spurs and at least one of our rivals has got to drop points the weekend after.

Derby is postponed for the League Cup final

Kerrigooney

Nalz wrote: »

A now 14 year old that registered on boards in 2008! Wow

Child prodigy

sReq | uTeK

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Child prodigy

Kloppenprod

mosstin

Nalz wrote: »

A now 14 year old that registered on boards in 2008! Wow

This is his mother by the way.

SlickRic

Recruitment is almost always the issue. If you don't buy players who are from a certain tier, you just can't get to where you want to be.

Leicester last season is the exception that proves the rule. It was a perfect storm that has seemingly crashed down to earth now after Kanté's departure.

Manchester City go out and get the best young player in Germany (Sané) and Brazil's next big thing (Jesus) while splashing out on Stones as well. They'll get there. If not this season, very soon.

Utd go out and about and get Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Bailly and Ibra. They're only now making up for a few years of dodgy recruitment.

Spurs over a number of years have bought well. Alli, Alderweireld, Wanyama, Lloris. And they've managed to renew the contracts of key players like Vertonghen, Eriksen and Kane.

90% of a club's success is down to the recruitment policy. And ours just hasn't been good enough, often enough for us to realistically compete. We can go on about whether Klopp has a plan B, or whether he's tired them all out with his full-on style, but the reality is not enough players are good enough.

So let's not overcomplicate the issue. Better players are needed. Simple as that.

A better GK.
An actual LB (as much as I love Milner).
A CB to partner Matip.
A striker. Firmino isn't clinical enough to be burdened with that responsibility.
An actual CM who dominates. Hendo is not it, and never has been.

Harry Palmr

Wonder if Matip is watching the Afcon final?

Agent Coulson

Wonder is he regretting not going now.

Harry Palmr

Ngadeu-Ngadjui is getting his medal.

Well done the Lions.

Iused2likebusts

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Spurs H
Leicester A
Arsenal H
Burnley H

Really need 4 wins here. Spurs and Arsenal are exactly what we need, Leicester have not won a game this year. Burnley are a WIN LOSE WIN LOSE WIN LOSE WIN LOSE team, hopefully they win before they play us.
I'd still confident of 2nd place if we beat Spurs and Arsenal .

If Burnley beat Lincoln our game against them will be postponed as its fa cup qf weekend.

Nalz

mosstin wrote: »

This is his mother by the way.

What exactly are you saying?

Vanolder

I let a huff and puff game against Chelsea cloud me.. Liverpool won't get near top 4.

Proved right.

noodler

Vanolder wrote: »

I let a huff and puff game against Chelsea cloud me.. Liverpool won't get near top 4.

Proved right.

Proved right then or proved right now?

Vanolder

noodler wrote: »

Proved right then or proved right now?

Always.

Patriots by 3 tonight.

Osmosis Jones

Some "fans" are happy to see the team lose as they are proven right.

Agent Coulson

It really is a pity Ings got injured again as I think he would have been the perfect 6 yard box striker and that something different we missed over the last month.

Kerrigooney

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Some "fans" are happy to see the team lose as they are proven right.

Iused2likebusts

Agent Coulson wrote: »

It really is a pity Ings got injured again as I think he would have been the perfect 6 yard box striker and that something different we missed over the last month.

He definetly would have been useful over the Xmas period and Jan. Origi will end up a better player but I'd prefer ings as an option now.

citytillidie

holy crap even the thread on the African Cup of Nations can't escape the Liverpool hate lol

Talisman

redzerdrog wrote: »

The obvious problem with the keeper aside I think another pacey wide forward would help with a lot of our other problems.

If Rodgers was still our manager we would probably have taken a chance on M'Baye Niang (now on loan at Watford). He's a goal every 3/4 games type of talented and pacey wannabe forward. More suited to playing on the wing but determined to emulate Thierry Henry or so he said a few years ago. He's young (still only 21/22), moody and almost forgot to mention he's French. What's not to like? Oh yeah he's contracted to AC Milan.

Just the kind of rough diamond the transfer committee would spring for. He would have been a nice little project for Brendan Rodgers to improve. Under Klopp it would more than likely be a Balotelli/Sakho car crash experience.

Osmosis Jones

Talisman wrote: »

If Rodgers was still our manager we would probably have taken a chance on M'Baye Niang (now on loan at Watford). He's a goal every 3/4 games type of talented and pacey wannabe forward. More suited to playing on the wing but determined to emulate Thierry Henry or so he said a few years ago. He's young (still only 21/22), moody and almost forgot to mention he's French. What's not to like? Oh yeah he's contracted to AC Milan.

Sounds like the exact description of Divock Origi.

Agent Coulson

I get more and more confused by what is posted on here by the day.

Gbear

SlickRic wrote: »

Leicester last season is the exception that proves the rule. It was a perfect storm that has seemingly crashed down to earth now after Kanté's departure.

A bugbear of mine:
"The exception [that] proves the rule" is a saying whose meaning has been interpreted or misinterpreted in various ways. Its true, or at least original, meaning is that the presence of an exception applying to a specific case establishes ("proves") that a general rule exists. For example, a sign that says "parking prohibited on Sundays" (the exception) "proves" that parking is allowed on the other six days of the week (the rule). A more explicit phrasing might be "the exception that proves the existence of the rule."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule

People who correct people like this are bad people. I'm a bad person.
But it's like nails on a chalkboard.
People who spell lose as "loose" is the other one that makes me want to cry.:o

What Leicester winning proves is mostly that sometimes even the 6 richest clubs in the league who are head and shoulders above everyone else, can all simultaneously be terrible at the same time, but it doesn't happen often.

They and to a lesser extent, Atletico have proven that you can't have consistent success when there's that much of a gulf between clubs, but what Atletico probably do prove is that if you put yourself in the right neck of the woods - top 4ish, you'll always have a chance if your competitors don't turn up that season.

There's no excusing our league performances over the last nearly 20 years and while it was worse luck than Leicester had in who we came up against in the two seasons where we came closest (08-09, greatest ever strike force in the PL, 13-14 roughly as good any side to have won the title) 2 in 20 is poor odds for getting a walkover league title.

Arsenal were a disgrace last season. They were doing exactly that - sitting in the right position and having to bide there time but you have to capitalise when your usual opponents crumble. They had all the stability and mature squad you need to seize that chance and they still didn't even put up a fight.
Nevertheless we need to emulate them in part. We need the stability. Just not the indolence.

SlickRic wrote: »

A better GK.
An actual LB (as much as I love Milner).
A CB to partner Matip.
A striker. Firmino isn't clinical enough to be burdened with that responsibility.
An actual CM who dominates. Hendo is not it, and never has been.

It depends who these signings are.

I think 1 top class striker would be enough for a solid title challenge. 85 odd points. It wouldn't be enough this season but it'd get us close at least most seasons.

That CM - who would you have replaced at the start of the season?
Klopp probably won't spend 30-40m on a bench player.

We've had a dramatic collapse but I still think it's pretty fine margins here.
It's not like our whole team was up to much in 13/14.
Leicesters wasn't either. Momentum, belief and always at least theoretically being able to play to your strengths are important.

You need to be able to do a thing other teams can't handle. There will obviously be a correlation between spend and success, but you might get lucky and have the perfect blend of quality exactly where you need it, like we did with Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and Sterling.

We have our angle and we've shown that in the first half of the season. We're not able to make it work at the moment.

The first port of call is making sure that we can make it work for the whole season. Part of that is reducing our mercurial nature by getting more cover for who's here so we can be consistent in our tactics and style and fixing our patchy goalscoring with a proper striker.

A DM, a GK, or a defender won't fundamentally fix our current broken system.
They'd be polishing the turd as things stand.
They might however be the kind of thing that gets us from top 4 to top 1, once we're reliably performing like Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool.

Talisman

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Sounds like the exact description of Divock Origi.

Origi is definitely a centre forward by comparison to Niang. Niang is most effective out wide cutting in from the wing.

Talisman

Gbear wrote: »

A bugbear of mine:
A DM, a GK, or a defender won't fundamentally fix our current broken system.
They'd be polishing the turd as things stand.
They might however be the kind of thing that gets us from top 4 to top 1, once we're reliably performing like Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool.

I would counter that a DM like Kante/Wanyama would get us performing like a Klopp team. A proper DM makes a massive difference because it gives the team a platform to build on.

We have a group of midfield players who are at their best when they have room to play. We're missing a player in the middle that will stop the opposition in their tracks and get our tippy tappy players into the game.

In 2005, Benitez brought in Momo Sissoko to do that job for the team. Eventually he was upgraded upon with the signing of Javier Mascherano. Since Mascherano's departure, Lucas has been our only midfielder suited to the role and injuries robbed him of his mobility. Henderson has been playing the role but it's not his natural game so we get caught out a lot.

With Kante in the lineup it's like Leicester/Chelsea had/have 12 players in the team. He's not a particularly aggressive player but he reads the game and covers every blade of grass to shut down the opposition.

Tottenham have Victor Wanyama to perform the role for them and they have the best defensive record in the league this season. The only reason they are not challenging Chelsea for the title this season is because of their inability to convert chances while they were without Kane earlier in the season. During that period they didn't lose a single game, but picked up 4/5 successive draws.

In contrast when you take the goal threat out of the Liverpool team you start to worry about the defensive lapses costing you games. A proper mobile DM player in the team means Emre Can is not goofing around with stupid back passes to nobody. Nor do the opposition get a clean run at our centre backs which is something that has plagued our team for years.

With a stable defensive base, it takes the pressure off the other players because they know that if a pass doesn't come off our defenders are not going to be over run in a matter of seconds. Without the fear of panic, the tippy tappy football can flourish, and goals may follow when the opposition tire.

Bowlardo

Talisman wrote: »

I would counter that a DM like Kante/Wanyama would get us performing like a Klopp team. A proper DM makes a massive difference because it gives the team a platform to build on.

We have a group of midfield players who are at their best when they have room to play. We're missing a player in the middle that will stop the opposition in their tracks and get our tippy tappy players into the game.

In 2005, Benitez brought in Momo Sissoko to do that job for the team. Eventually he was upgraded upon with the signing of Javier Mascherano. Since Mascherano's departure, Lucas has been our only midfielder suited to the role and injuries robbed him of his mobility. Henderson has been playing the role but it's not his natural game so we get caught out a lot.

With Kante in the lineup it's like Leicester/Chelsea had/have 12 players in the team. He's not a particularly aggressive player but he reads the game and covers every blade of grass to shut down the opposition.

Tottenham have Victor Wanyama to perform the role for them and they have the best defensive record in the league this season. The only reason they are not challenging Chelsea for the title this season is because of their inability to convert chances while they were without Kane earlier in the season. During that period they didn't lose a single game, but picked up 4/5 successive draws.

In contrast when you take the goal threat out of the Liverpool team you start to worry about the defensive lapses costing you games. A proper mobile DM player in the team means Emre Can is not goofing around with stupid back passes to nobody. Nor do the opposition get a clean run at our centre backs which is something that has plagued our team for years.

With a stable defensive base, it takes the pressure off the other players because they know that if a pass doesn't come off our defenders are not going to be over run in a matter of seconds. Without the fear of panic, the tippy tappy football can flourish, and goals may follow when the opposition tire.

right on the money best post i've read in a long time.

If klopp is indeed such a fan of Can (as per the BD fans link thing) why was Wij' bought?

Spending that sort of cash on cover for Henderson & can seems weird, doubt he came to sit on bench.

Harry Palmr

Wijnaldum is not cover for Can/Hendo as they play different roles.

TitianGerm

Talisman wrote: »

I would counter that a DM like Kante/Wanyama would get us performing like a Klopp team. A proper DM makes a massive difference because it gives the team a platform to build on.

We have a group of midfield players who are at their best when they have room to play. We're missing a player in the middle that will stop the opposition in their tracks and get our tippy tappy players into the game.

In 2005, Benitez brought in Momo Sissoko to do that job for the team. Eventually he was upgraded upon with the signing of Javier Mascherano. Since Mascherano's departure, Lucas has been our only midfielder suited to the role and injuries robbed him of his mobility. Henderson has been playing the role but it's not his natural game so we get caught out a lot.

With Kante in the lineup it's like Leicester/Chelsea had/have 12 players in the team. He's not a particularly aggressive player but he reads the game and covers every blade of grass to shut down the opposition.

Tottenham have Victor Wanyama to perform the role for them and they have the best defensive record in the league this season. The only reason they are not challenging Chelsea for the title this season is because of their inability to convert chances while they were without Kane earlier in the season. During that period they didn't lose a single game, but picked up 4/5 successive draws.

In contrast when you take the goal threat out of the Liverpool team you start to worry about the defensive lapses costing you games. A proper mobile DM player in the team means Emre Can is not goofing around with stupid back passes to nobody. Nor do the opposition get a clean run at our centre backs which is something that has plagued our team for years.

With a stable defensive base, it takes the pressure off the other players because they know that if a pass doesn't come off our defenders are not going to be over run in a matter of seconds. Without the fear of panic, the tippy tappy football can flourish, and goals may follow when the opposition tire.

Might as well close the thread now because we won't see another post that talks so much sense for a while.

Bang on the money.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Wijnaldum is not cover for Can/Hendo as they play different roles.

So where does Wij play?

mada999

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Age, he'd be 5 months off 29 if we bought him in summer. And at 60m that would not be something of value, his talent not in question, just the economics of it.

f*****ck economics... its time we bought some top players, i dont care what they cost.. get them in... sick of the potential players...

get top players in and get a good 15 instead of a good 11... our bench is shíte...

chicorytip

mada999 wrote:

f*****ck economics... its time we bought some top players, i dont care what they cost.. get them in... sick of the potential players...

mada999 wrote:

get top players in and get a good 15 instead of a good 11... our bench is shíte...

What Liverpool need is a proper, 30 goal per season, top quality centre forward with real physical presence. There are only two players in world football at the moment who fit these criteria. Gonzalo Higuain and Luis Suarez. Both are unattainable - in the short term, at any rate. I don't expect Liverpool or Arsenal, indeed, who share a similar predicament to achieve real success until this problem is rectified.

mada999

super_furry wrote: »

The squad isn't good enough. It wasn't good enough on the summer and it's not good enough now.

How many Liverpool players would get a game for Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs? You're looking at Coutinho, Mane and that's it.

Klopp has done well to get such an average group of players up to where they were, but he's not a miracle worker.

yup and had the chance to change it in the summer and January... we all knew deep down that we were overachieving....

mada999

limnam wrote: »

The good news , it's only spurs next.

meh they are the games i'm not worried about....

Vanolder

Vanolder wrote: »

Always.

Patriots by 3 tonight.

Was out by 4.

Ben Gadot

sword1 wrote: »

Supposed to be big problems with the players

Sounds about right.....has to be the manager's fault.

I hope it doesn't end too badly for Claudio. Seems like one of the nicest blokes in the game.

mada999

mada999 wrote: »

meh they are the games i'm not worried about....

1 1 draws with Chelsea & Utd lately aren't exactly raise your game specials either. A draw against spurs will have us on 4 points from 18..... how far back do you have to go to get that poor a points haul

Nalz

Vanolder wrote: »

Was out by 4.

Oh wow

spockety

chicorytip wrote: »

What Liverpool need is a proper, 30 goal per season, top quality centre forward with real physical presence. There are only two players in world football at the moment who fit these criteria. Gonzalo Higuain and Luis Suarez. Both are unattainable - in the short term, at any rate. I don't expect Liverpool or Arsenal, indeed, who share a similar predicament to achieve real success until this problem is rectified.

I don't think Suarez is unobtainable.

He would have a willingness.
Barca would have a price.

Stab*City

I wonder would Marek Hamsik and Dries Martens fit in our team. They looked really awesome at the weekend. Or are they even available.

spockety

spockety wrote: »

I don't think Suarez is unobtainable.

He would have a willingness.
Barca would have a price.

Can't see him giving up a starting place with Barca to pr1ck about trying to get LFC into the CL ............ a perennial struggle.

Iused2likebusts

spockety wrote: »

I don't think Suarez is unobtainable.

He would have a willingness.
Barca would have a price.

No chance