Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Muahahaha

Football Focus interview with Klopp on the derby, youths & pressure

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38352482

mormank

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Ha, I dunno how Leicester did what they did. It was insane. But Chelsea already had a great squad, they just refused to play for Mourinho last season and now they're coming out of hibernation.
Plus it's only early days this season. I still wouldn't rule us out entirely.

But yeah we've had great managers and good sides and people just forget how close we were a few times. Houllier (and Phil) weren't far off. That was a huge points tally we notched up but Arsenal had an amazing season.
And Rafa's side were a Howard Webb soft peno (utd v spurs changed the game) and also excellent late strike my Macheda away from winning it.
And then there was Rodgers and Stevie's slip.

So we ain't been far off on a good few occasions.
And it will happen for us under Klopp at some stage, I'd put my life on it.

I love how a few times became a good few times there at the end. Tbf we were in 1 real title race and that was obviously when we had the title in our own hands with 4 games left in 2014. That challenge where Macheda scored that late winner against Villa we were never really in it, we were merely described as being in the race by default because we were the closest challengers that year but with a month or so to go we really needed close to a miracle to win it. In my lifetime as a pool fan we have had 1 title challenge, not "a good few". 2 is debateable but a good few is just plain wrong I'm afraid.

5starpool

We had a decent title challenge under Houllier and Evans as well as where we were in the mix with 5-6 games to go but finished badly. Never in our own hands type stuff but still.

~Rebel~

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Oscar moving to China at 25 for half a million a week wages.
It's a fair price to sell your footballing soul for I guess
I think Coutinho would not do it though, says a lot about him.

Christ, it's a lot of money to turn down...I mean, at the end of the day, football is their job. They're not there giving us entertainment out of good will, they do it cause they're paid to do it. I'm not a fan of this 'selling their soul' stuff, i don't think it's fair that they be judged more harshly than everyone else. Has everyone on here maximized their creative/industrial potential? or do we make decisions that are to the benefit of ourselves and those around us, outside of our careers?

I wouldn't begrudge or judge anyone taking that sort of money doing, well, pretty much anything! I mean, if he were being paid that much to leave football and work as a janitor, i'd think "yeah, fair enough, 26million a year, worth it!". Getting it while still playing football, just at a worse level...christ... it really is astronomical money. Family sorted for generations to come. Pretty much his whole lineage guaranteed to have good, safe lives because of this decision. He's a kid who grew up poor, and lost his Dad when he was still a toddler, I say fair play for getting himself into the position where he's given this opportunity.

I could also see this being a finite bubble, with some of these star imports coming back to Europe in the longer term. Wouldn't be surprised to see him back at a big team by the time he's 28.

mormank

5starpool wrote: »

We had a decent title challenge under Houllier and Evans as well as where we were in the mix with 5-6 games to go but finished badly. Never in our own hands type stuff but still.

Must have been before my time.

One_Of_Shanks

mormank wrote: »

That challenge where Macheda scored that late winner against Villa we were never really in it, we were merely described as being in the race by default

What are you on about? Of course we were in it. We even briefly went top after Benayoun's winner at Fulham. Macheda's last minute goal took united back top in APRIL.
WTF were all the subs and players going mental for if they didn't think we were in it?
Heres another few thousand people after that game who would disagree with you

Just because we didnt win it doesn't mean we weren't in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkoePMkgNV8

One_Of_Shanks

5starpool wrote: »

We had a decent title challenge under Houllier and Evans as well as where we were in the mix with 5-6 games to go but finished badly. Never in our own hands type stuff but still.

Yep, spot on fella!

mosstin

mormank wrote: »

I love how a few times became a good few times there at the end. Tbf we were in 1 real title race and that was obviously when we had the title in our own hands with 4 games left in 2014. That challenge where Macheda scored that late winner against Villa we were never really in it, we were merely described as being in the race by default because we were the closest challengers that year but with a month or so to go we really needed close to a miracle to win it. In my lifetime as a pool fan we have had 1 title challenge, not "a good few". 2 is debateable but a good few is just plain wrong I'm afraid.

I'll never forget 1996/97. Home to Coventry, 3 points behind United and playing a team who were bottom or close to bottom.
We went one up through Fowler. James had his usual clanger though and we lost in the last minute. Absolutely ****ing gutted that year. That was under Evans and that was definitely a title challenge.
Hated Coventry and Dion Dublin ever since.

LiamoSail

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Oscar moving to China at 25 for half a million a week wages.
It's a fair price to sell your footballing soul for I guess
I think Coutinho would not do it though, says a lot about him.

This is nonsense. Oscar's doing what every footballer does; follows the cash.

Do you think Coutinho grew up dreaming of living in Liverpool? Do you think Liverpool offers a significantly greater appeal to a South American than Shanghai? It dosent

What about Aguero at City? Is he selling his "footballing soul"? Manchester is hardly Europes answer to Buneos Aires, and in addition there's the history between Argintina and the UK. So what makes China any more alien than that?

If they're in the UK, they've already taken the decision to prioritise their earnings. Shanghai might seem alien to Western Europeans, but to a South American it's no more so than the likes of Stoke, Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham

Harry Palmr

But they eats dogs! :eek:

Agent Coulson

Half a million a week after tax he'd be a complete fcuking eejit to turn it down anyone would be.

5starpool

LiamoSail wrote: »

This is nonsense. Oscar's doing what every footballer does; follows the cash.

Do you think Coutinho grew up dreaming of living in Liverpool? Do you think Liverpool offers a significantly greater appeal to a South American than Shanghai? It dosent

What about Aguero at City? Is he selling his "footballing soul"? Manchester is hardly Europes answer to Buneos Aires, and in addition there's the history between Argintina and the UK. So what makes China any more alien than that?

If they're in the UK, they've already taken the decision to prioritise their earnings. Shanghai might seem alien to Western Europeans, but to a South American it's no more so than the likes of Stoke, Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham

Not comparing like with like. South Americans might not dream of living in Liverpool/Manchester specifically, but the big European clubs are hugely famous worldwide, and the Champions League is widely accepted as the pinnacle of club football anywhere given that it has the best players. China has no football anything really, except some new money for a small number of overseas players.

Obviously the money on offer is a huge draw, but the likes of Oscar will be set for life anyhow regardless of where he plays football. The "wouldn't you go if your wages were being trebled" arguments don't really work either given the different economies of scale involved. Also, no, I wouldn't move to China for treble the wages to do essentially the same job but with people who are far worse at doing the same thing I am.

K-9

I suppose like in life in general some will be motivated by money above all else! Coutinho could be on a lot more money, I'd say there are lots of bonus clauses though.

Gbear

LiamoSail wrote: »

This is nonsense. Oscar's doing what every footballer does; follows the cash.

Do you think Coutinho grew up dreaming of living in Liverpool? Do you think Liverpool offers a significantly greater appeal to a South American than Shanghai? It dosent

What about Aguero at City? Is he selling his "footballing soul"? Manchester is hardly Europes answer to Buneos Aires, and in addition there's the history between Argintina and the UK. So what makes China any more alien than that?

If they're in the UK, they've already taken the decision to prioritise their earnings. Shanghai might seem alien to Western Europeans, but to a South American it's no more so than the likes of Stoke, Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham

I'd take your general point about there being no qualitative difference between going for the money in one place over another, but there's a big differece between China and the PL.

Eastern civilisation is markedly different to Europe or Europe's former colonies.
While things might be a little different this side of the atlantic, language, custom, religion, food and a host of other things are pretty much the same, whereas the Far East may as well be a different planet.

Not to mention that China's a communist dictatorship.

LiamoSail

5starpool wrote: »

Not comparing like with like. South Americans might not dream of living in Liverpool/Manchester specifically, but the big European clubs are hugely famous worldwide, and the Champions League is widely accepted as the pinnacle of club football anywhere given that it has the best players. China has no football anything really, except some new money for a small number of overseas players.

Obviously the money on offer is a huge draw, but the likes of Oscar will be set for life anyhow regardless of where he plays football. The "wouldn't you go if your wages were being trebled" arguments don't really work either given the different economies of scale involved. Also, no, I wouldn't move to China for treble the wages to do essentially the same job but with people who are far worse at doing the same thing I am.

I accept your point about the standard of football, however among the factors that play a part in the decision, the standard of football is always going to lag behind the lifestyle and money on offer.

Regarding your hypothetical job offer in China, you're not comparing like with like. Oscar isn't moving away from his own culture, he's moving from one foreign culture to another. A fairer comparison would be an Irish ex pat in Russia getting a job offer in China. It's just swapping one foreign culture for another

LiamoSail

Gbear wrote: »

I'd take your general point about there being no qualitative difference between going for the money in one place over another, but there's a big differece between China and the PL.

Eastern civilisation is markedly different to Europe or Europe's former colonies.
While things might be a little different this side of the atlantic, language, custom, religion, food and a host of other things are pretty much the same, whereas the Far East may as well be a different planet.

Not to mention that China's a communist dictatorship.

I'd take China's communist dictatorship over a Tory Government!

Granted, China may be slightly more foreign to a Brazilaian that the UK, but both are foreign cultures significantly removed from that of Oscar's own.

Also, we're talking about Shanghai here. Shanghai is a great city with a lot going on.

Personally I'd rather live in Shanghai than some of the regular outposts of English football that regularly attract foreign players.

ERG89

LiamoSail wrote: »

This is nonsense. Oscar's doing what every footballer does; follows the cash.

If they're in the UK, they've already taken the decision to prioritise their earnings. Shanghai might seem alien to Western Europeans, but to a South American it's no more so than the likes of Stoke, Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham

I do wonder if a player had the choice of a Bayern or Real Madrid up against Shanghai would he choose Asia. I think most wouldn't. Oscar has been in a rut for a couple of years now so this is the deal of a lifetime for him.
If it were as simple as money I imagine they'd be putting in bids for Hazard or Costa instead.

LiamoSail

ERG89 wrote: »

I do wonder if a player had the choice of a Bayern or Real Madrid up against Shanghai would he choose Asia. I think most wouldn't. Oscar has been in a rut for a couple of years now so this is the deal of a lifetime for him.
If it were as simple as money I imagine they'd be putting in bids for Hazard or Costa instead.

A top Spanish club is always going to be more attractive, obviously the culture being an important factor.

My issue really is that I don't understand the disbelief regarding this move. If a Brazilaian player signed for Stoke, Burnley, Middlesborough or Villa, people wouldn't question his motives. But he goes to Shanghai and suddenly it's all about the money? It's a contradiction

corwill

LiamoSail wrote: »

A top Spanish club is always going to be more attractive, obviously the culture being an important factor.

My issue really is that I don't understand the disbelief regarding this move. If a Brazilaian player signed for Stoke, Burnley, Middlesborough or Villa, people wouldn't question his motives. But he goes to Shanghai and suddenly it's all about the money? It's a contradiction

If Oscar signed for Burnley for a payrise, of course people would question it.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A bit about the U18s penalty shootout win over Palace.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-u18s-2-2-crystal-12337627

LiamoSail

corwill wrote: »

If Oscar signed for Burnley for a payrise, of course people would question it.

I don't mean Oscar specifically, I mean any South American player going to somewhere like Burnley for a pay rise. It's every bit as money driven as Oscars move.

Look at Aguero going to City. It wasn't the weather that convinced him to give up Madrid for Manchester and yet he's not accused of selling his sole?

NukaCola

LiamoSail wrote: »

and yet he's not accused of selling his sole?

Fishmonger?

5starpool

LiamoSail wrote: »

I don't mean Oscar specifically, I mean any South American player going to somewhere like Burnley for a pay rise. It's every bit as money driven as Oscars move.

Look at Aguero going to City. It wasn't the weather that convinced him to give up Madrid for Manchester and yet he's not accused of selling his sole?

But the English and Spanish leagues are comparable in general, so nothing like the same thing. In terms of CL football too, he is still in a team that plays there. Anyone who goes to China will be giving up any chance really of playing for their country or competing for any sort of meaningful trophies. Playing only for money is fine, but there can be no pretense that it is for anything else. If Burnley were able to sign the likes of Oscar even on big wages, they'd still have the fact going for them that they play in the spotlight of the PL and could be looking to progress to competing in the CL. None of that is applicable to someone playing in Shenzen or anywhere like that.

LiamoSail

5starpool wrote: »

But the English and Spanish leagues are comparable in general, so nothing like the same thing. In terms of CL football too, he is still in a team that plays there. Anyone who goes to China will be giving up any chance really of playing for their country or competing for any sort of meaningful trophies. Playing only for money is fine, but there can be no pretense that it is for anything else. If Burnley were able to sign the likes of Oscar even on big wages, they'd still have the fact going for them that they play in the spotlight of the PL and could be looking to progress to competing in the CL. None of that is applicable to someone playing in Shenzen or anywhere like that.

So the leagues are the same, and he was getting CL football regardless. So what attracted him to Manchester from Madrid? Why was he not tempted to go to London or Milan, or even stay in Madrid? It was the cash that was the deciding factor.

I agree with you that a move to China is an abandonment of any sort of pursuit towards the pinnacle of the game, but I don't believe a foreign player moving to the likes of Burnley or Middlesborough is doing it for professional reasons, the primary motivation is the salary

mosstin

LiamoSail wrote: »

I don't mean Oscar specifically, I mean any South American player going to somewhere like Burnley for a pay rise. It's every bit as money driven as Oscars move.

Look at Aguero going to City. It wasn't the weather that convinced him to give up Madrid for Manchester and yet he's not accused of selling his sole?

I think he left because he wasn't getting his plaice in the team.

J Mysterio

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Half a million a week after tax he'd be a complete fcuking eejit to turn it down anyone would be.

Disagree.

Moist Bread

mosstin wrote: »

I think he left because he wasn't getting his plaice in the team.

He had to move on. He was just floundering there tbh.

cj maxx

J Mysterio wrote: »

Disagree.

For 500,000 A WEEK I wouldn't blame anyone doing a year or three at that. . I'd be a water boy for 1/10th of that and people would call me lucky . Good luck to him .

corwill

LiamoSail wrote: »

... but I don't believe a foreign player moving to the likes of Burnley or Middlesborough is doing it for professional reasons, the primary motivation is the salary

Salary will be a motivation, of course, but the chance to play week in, week out, in a high profile league puts a player in the shop window for a move to bigger club in that league, meaning more money, but also a better shot at playing in European competition and perhaps international call-ups.

You never know, we could all be watching Chinese football in 10 years time, but at least for now, a player is taking the money in exchange for essentially disappearing from elite football, at least for the length of their stay in China. 3 or 4 years there, and a return to the Premier League could well be at Burnely/Boro level.

Harry Palmr

Nothing else to talk about other than a peripheral figure in another team going to a league which is far away of which we know little?

Arsenal stupid feckers, a City loss today and by Liverpool would have opened up a little gap between 2nd/3rd and 4th. Instead it remains 1+3+1+1

martyos121

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Nothing else to talk about other than a peripheral figure in another team going to a league which is far away of which we know little?

Arsenal stupid feckers, a City loss today and by Liverpool would have opened up a little gap between 2nd/3rd and 4th. Instead it remains 1+3+1+1

At first I was hoping for a City win or a draw because Arsenal were closer to us in the table. Then I remembered they were Arsenal. :pac:

mosstin

martyos121 wrote: »

At first I was hoping for a City win or a draw because Arsenal were closer to us in the table. Then I remembered they were Arsenal. :pac:

In the last two games, it should be pointed out, they've also remembered they were Arsenal.

mormank

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

What are you on about? Of course we were in it. We even briefly went top after Benayoun's winner at Fulham. Macheda's last minute goal took united back top in APRIL.
WTF were all the subs and players going mental for if they didn't think we were in it?
Heres another few thousand people after that game who would disagree with you

Just because we didnt win it doesn't mean we weren't in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkoePMkgNV8

Ah ok well I could post 100 videos of different fans singing we are gonna win the league but that's not eveidence of a title race! I was in Australia with my best mate during this season and he is a UTD fan so we watched all the games together and that Macheda goal was the end of it for me. And that was what, april?? Sure were "in it" in the sense that if UTD collapsed we were there to take over from them but we were always looking for an unexpected blunder from UTD and even then if they had who is to say we would have had the bottle to actually win the game in question to go ahead of them. As we all know football is played as much in the mind as on the grass and we never had the mentality to win the title that season imo. Anytime we were too far behind to go top we would win 4-0 but when we had the chance to capitalise on a slip up from UTD or whatever we would mess up. But then, I've only been a Liverpool fan since around '92,'93 so I'm a hardcore cynic at this point when it comes to Liverpool after so may years of making a fool of myself talking us up over the years. Maybe you optimists think that we had loads of "title challenges" over the years but I'll repeat it again in my opinion we only had 1 serious title challenge since I've been a fan and it was the most amazing season I ever remember as a pool fan. I know we ended up second in '14 but that season, especially the last few months, is my best experience as a pool fan even topping '05 if I'm being honest. We played like champion's for the second half of the season and would have been very worthy winners had we won it. Any other year you simply can't say the same thing. So sure we can continue to argue over semantics if you choose but in my mind needing the other team to drop 6 points or whatever and us to win all our remaining games in April is not a real title challenge.

FixitFelix

mosstin wrote: »

In the last two games, it should be pointed out, they've also remembered they were Arsenal.

Now all we need is for Liverpool to remember who they are, and the sequence is complete

J Mysterio

Paragraphs

mormank

mosstin wrote: »

I'll never forget 1996/97. Home to Coventry, 3 points behind United and playing a team who were bottom or close to bottom.
We went one up through Fowler. James had his usual clanger though and we lost in the last minute. Absolutely ****ing gutted that year. That was under Evans and that was definitely a title challenge.
Hated Coventry and Dion Dublin ever since.

Ok well I'm happy to admit I'm wrong on this one, once you don't talk don to me like the last poster, but in my defence I was 12 during that season and didn't quite live, breath and sleep football like I do now. My earliest memory if I'm being honest was our '95 coca cola cup win but even then I didn't quite get football if ya get me. I had no idea why it was the coca cola cup one year and called something else the next. This was before the internet had taken over like it has today and everything was not available at the flick of a finger!! Tbh I'll even accept that we were in a title challenge in the loose definition of the phrase in '10 when Macheda scored that goal. I still remember exactly where I was and how I felt when that goal went in so maybe it was a real challenge up to that point but it ended that night for me, but that was April iirc. A real title challenge should go til May right? If not then I guess we have had a title challenge every season, just like every other team in the league.

mosstin

FixitFelix wrote: »

Now all we need is for Liverpool to remember who they are, and the sequence is complete

I can't remember who you are, Felix?

BorneTobyWilde

A win tomorrow and we are closest team to Chelsea, need that to be case come new year

4 teams have Boxing day off, Liverpool and Spurs are two of them.

BorneTobyWilde

Chelsea don't play an away game until the 4th of Jan
They should have a good Xmas.

brevity

That touch by Suarez...

Buford T. Justice XIX

mosstin wrote: »

I can't remember who you are, Felix?

He's Felix.

F-E-L-I-X.

He fixes stuff!

BorneTobyWilde

Posters like Felix like Felix

magentis

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A win tomorrow and we are closest team to Chelsea, need that to be case come new year

4 teams have Boxing day off, Liverpool and Spurs are two of them.

What is this boxing day you speak of?

cj maxx

magentis wrote: »

What is this boxing day you speak of?

I think it's hung over day when boxing breaks out among the feckers called family , or st Stephens day I don't know !

garra

5starpool wrote: »

But the English and Spanish leagues are comparable in general, so nothing like the same thing. In terms of CL football too, he is still in a team that plays there. Anyone who goes to China will be giving up any chance really of playing for their country or competing for any sort of meaningful trophies. Playing only for money is fine, but there can be no pretense that it is for anything else. If Burnley were able to sign the likes of Oscar even on big wages, they'd still have the fact going for them that they play in the spotlight of the PL and could be looking to progress to competing in the CL. None of that is applicable to someone playing in Shenzen or anywhere like that.

Your argument assumes footballers from a foreign continent obsess about being recognised as great footballers in our continent, to the point of incurring significant financial shortfalls if they don't achieve this recognition.

Put them on a pedestal if it makes you feel better about your own devotion to the game, but please don't pass off this sanctimonious nonsense when we all agree that players can be stacked and racked and sacked etc.

mormank

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Nothing else to talk about other than a peripheral figure in another team going to a league which is far away of which we know little?

Arsenal stupid feckers, a City loss today and by Liverpool would have opened up a little gap between 2nd/3rd and 4th. Instead it remains 1+3+1+1

Ugh it's too early in the morning for maths!

mormank

mosstin wrote: »

I think he left because he wasn't getting his plaice in the team.

Yeah sure that could be why he left but that's not the question, the question is why did he go to china when he could easily get a move to another European club? Two totally different questions with different answers.

mosstin

mormank wrote: »

Yeah sure that could be why he left but that's not the question, the question is why did he go to china when he could easily get a move to another European club? Two totally different questions with different answers.

Have another read there.

Vicxas

So, Everton tonight lads.

corwill

Vicxas wrote: »

So, Everton tonight lads.

It would be terrible, just terrible, if something terrible were to happen to Funes Mori.