Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Don't worry about sh1t keepers.... worry if our forwards are careless with the ball ..... awful logic.

Forwards should have an element of playing without fear to their game knowing that if they lose the ball the keeper is capable of doing what's expected should the rest of the team not win the ball back.

Obviously they have to be mindful of their responsibility to not expose the defence repeatedly but it's natural that they'll lose poccession occasionally when doing their stuff.

OwaynOTT

I'd be happy enough to stick with Mig as long as we continue being one of the best in Europe in denying chances (according to Knex).
One of the issues with Mig before was he was subjected to a lot of chances and usually good ones.
We were very porous under Rodgers and at the start with Klopp.
Mignolet looks to be a bit brighter off his line and under crosses/taking under pressure and he is looking to offload quicker.
Has he really done anything that bad this season?
Let Karius be the cup goalie to get up a bit of confidence and settle and next year we can see.

One_Of_Shanks

Yeah there are lots of ways of looking at it.
I think a goal-keeper who is full of confidence will tend to outperform a keeper who is lacking in confidence. And if a forward gets confidence from scoring goals then a goalie will gain/lose confidence depending on clean sheets.
Even if you're winning 2-1 or 3-2 every week it's going to affect the keeper (negatively) more than the other players imo.
And then you get pundits and fans talking about the lack of clean sheets and save ratios etc and if you're that keeper it is bound to play on your mind.
And it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy then and if you're nervous/expecting to concede then it will happen more.

Then there's the even more obvious one. We attack so much that you'll get caught out at times and give up clearer chances than a team who plays more defensively and has a couple of defensive central midfielders protecting the back line.
We tend to give up some good chances at times so you'll concede then no matter who the hell is in goals.
Whatever about Karius but a lot of the opinions formed about Mignolet dated back to before Klopp even took charge and Rodgers at times had us playing ultra-attacking stuff too and defending on the half-way line at times and we had problems with basics such as defending corners and frees aerially.

And then there's the theory that we just have two bad keepers and maybe it's just that simple. Well on Karius, I don't know enough about him and it's a new league for a young keeper etc so jury still out for me, but it was the right call to take him out of the firing line imo.
I don't think Mignolet is a bad keeper, just has a few traits/flaws that are very frustrating and never seemed to improve.
That's maybe where the criticism of the GK coach comes from, I can see that point on view as well.

So while I don't know if the biggest problem is A,B or C, it's not hard to see why people think there is a bit of a problem, and it doesn't look like we're going to change our attacking philosophy so if a very good keeper becomes available in the Summer then I wouldn't be against going for him.
But if he also fails to impress and we're back here having the same old discussion for the 3rd keeper in a row by next December then we'll have to look a little deeper than the keepers just being pants theory.

Morzadec

I personally don't think Mignolet was very clearly at fault for the goal. Would have been a phenomenal save for me if he had pulled it off. For me Mane was at fault. Made no real effort to prevent the cross.

Mig then made a very very good save to keep us in it. So for me he had a decent game yesterday. For me he's been fine since he came in Have a reasonable degree of confidence in him going forward.

Karius was making clear mistakes every game and inspiring no confidence in the defence. I'm sure the defenders are a lot happier playing in front of Mig

One_Of_Shanks

Morzadec wrote: »

Mig then made a very very good save to keep us in it.

Yeah that was a cracking save alright. I didn't even realise at the time how good it was til seeing it again today, brilliant stop.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Ben Woodburn noted as one of the rising stars of football and Andre Dozzell (son of Jason Dozzell) linked with Liverpool also.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/28/rising-stars-10-players-watch-2017?CMP=twt_gu

Morzadec

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Yeah that was a cracking save alright. I didn't even realise at the time how good it was til seeing it again today, brilliant stop.

I also honestly think that at 2-0 it becomes incredibly hard to turn that match around. I think we likely lose or possibly draw that match if Mig doesn't make that save.

So it's good that we can clearly see our goalkeeper now making clear positive contributions to a match.

That's my take on it anyway.

Stick with Mig till the summer and then let's see where we're at

One_Of_Shanks

Morzadec wrote: »

I also honestly think that at 2-0 it becomes incredibly hard to turn that match around. I think we likely lose or possibly draw that match if Mig doesn't make that save.

So it's good that we can clearly see our goalkeeper now making clear positive contributions to a match.

That's my take on it anyway.

Stick with Mig till the summer and then let's see where we're at

Yep, Wouldn't disagree with any of that fella. Yeah I think Mignolet will be kept (and picked) til the Summer.

After that it might get interesting though. Up to him to make sure it doesn't.

rob316

Hughes says he hopes other teams use Stoke's tactics at Anfield.

4-1, me too mate.

NukaCola

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Just to note that Klopp won the Bundesliga with a keeper that the majority of Dortmund fans thought was a weak link in the team.

I'm not saying it's likely with Liverpool but we seem intent on outscoring the opposition as our defensive redundancy as Rebel termed it.

Well, I'm not sure if that is the case, but if it is then the Dortmund fans must have had little to be complaining about.

The year they won the Bundesliga with Klopp Dortmund conceded 22 the first time and 25 the second time. They are numbers we can only dream of.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

Hughes says he hopes other teams use Stoke's tactics at Anfield.

4-1, me too mate.

Play well for 20 mins and then get completely outplayed?

He must have backed us for the league

MD1990

I can barely remember one game in which Mignolet has ever made a string of good saves.
His debut was great but been poor ever since.

Knex*

MD1990 wrote: »

I can barely remember one game in which Mignolet has ever made a string of good saves.
His debut was great but been poor ever since.

2nd half of the season where he was dropped for the Old Trafford game, I thought he was arguably our best player for a few months.

Wasn't a whole pile to choose from granted, but he did play well.

Osmosis Jones

Stoke's and Everton's performances showed what teams want to do against us. They go all out trying to blitz us during the opening of the game, hoping to get a large enough lead that they can defend for the rest of the game. But it hasn't worked for either of them and after 30 minutes they became tired and non-threatening for the rest of the game.

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

Well, I'm not sure if that is the case, but if it is then the Dortmund fans must have had little to be complaining about.

The year they won the Bundesliga with Klopp Dortmund conceded 22 the first time and 25 the second time. They are numbers we can only dream of.

Yeah, we are already in the 20s. It'll be between 40 and 50 conceded at this rate for the season. Rodgers territory.

Agent Coulson

I wonder will Gomez get a run out in the FA Cup game.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wonder will Gomez get a run out in the FA Cup game.

I would hope so. In January we have a game on average every 4 days (7 in 26). Need our young lads to come in and do a job.

BorneTobyWilde

Mig came into a lot of criticism during a season we could not score a goal. His mistakes were magnified 10 fold and he got a bad name. If he made a mistake, we lost.
Look at yesterdays game for example, had we lost 0-1 he would be all over the back pages today. But we didn't lose, we came back and won, and no one cares about Mignolet's save that wasn't.
I'm happy to play Mig as I know we can score 2, 3, 4 if needed, and I know he is a great shot stopper.

Agent Coulson

It's crazy to think Gomez has missed the best part of the last two seasons and he's only 19.


If he really is the the real deal everyone thinks there could be some partnership between him and Matip over the best part of the next decade.

Iused2likebusts

Is matip going to be fit for the city game.

NukaCola

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Mig came into a lot of criticism during a season we could not score a goal. His mistakes were magnified 10 fold and he got a bad name. If he made a mistake, we lost.

I'm happy to play Mig as I know we can score 2, 3, 4 if needed, and I know he is a great shot stopper.

Mig's reputation is well earned. We wont score 2/3/4 goals every game either.

Its amazing what being out of the spotlight does for a player. Its like some people forget how awful he can be

BorneTobyWilde

We've conceded 10 in last 10 league games
Chelsea 2 in last ten
Hard to win title against a team like them

BorneTobyWilde

NukaCola wrote: »

Mig's reputation is well earned. We wont score 2/3/4 goals every game either.

Its amazing what being out of the spotlight does for a player. Its like some people forget how awful he can be

I recall that if we conceded we lost. We had no goals for a whole season and he was one to blame. Had we came back to win games we would not mention him.

NukaCola

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I recall that if we conceded we lost. We had no goals for a whole season and he was one to blame. Had we came back to win games we would not mention him.

He was blamed for being awful. Sure, if we come back and win every game everyones happy. Its not how football works though. Players need to be relied on when things are tight.

Players make mistakes and GK's are costly, some of his though were absolutely incredible.

x43r0

Nice quote from Klopp in the echo when asked about Coutinho's shooting skills

Of course with Phil's skills, everyone wants to give him the ball and wait for something special to happen.

Then you think 'oh no, don't shoot again'.

But if I could shoot like he could shoot then I would try it all the time. I'd get up in the morning and just shoot the ****ing ball around in the garden or something.

It's outstanding how good he is.

Buford T. Justice XIX

NukaCola wrote: »

Mig's reputation is well earned. We wont score 2/3/4 goals every game either.

Its amazing what being out of the spotlight does for a player. Its like some people forget how awful he can be

Didn't seem to work for Joe Cole:-)

rob316

a win on Saturday would be huge it would give us a bit of breathing room in 2nd, anything else and we will be dragged into a dogfight for 3rd and 4th from United in 6th place up.

BoardsMember

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Stoke's and Everton's performances showed what teams want to do against us. They go all out trying to blitz us during the opening of the game, hoping to get a large enough lead that they can defend for the rest of the game. But it hasn't worked for either of them and after 30 minutes they became tired and non-threatening for the rest of the game.

Ater 30 minutes they are not likely too tired, it may take efforts of concentration or commitment beyobd them to keep up their approach from kick off, but to suggest that premiership players are too tired to keep up a pressing game beyond 30 minutes is a little hard to believe.

BoardsMember

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

We've conceded 10 in last 10 league games
Chelsea 2 in last ten
Hard to win title against a team like them

100%. There have not been too many league winners that have adopted the "score more goals than them" approach, most leagues, in any sport, are based on strong defenses, and in soccer that includes a decent keeper.

Harry Palmr

BoardsMember wrote: »

Ater 30 minutes they are not likely too tired, it may take efforts of concentration or commitment beyobd them to keep up their approach from kick off, but to suggest that premiership players are too tired to keep up a pressing game beyond 30 minutes is a little hard to believe.

They are not tired but they know they will become more tired than Liverpool if they attempt to out-Blitz them esp without the ball, so if the tactic hasn't yielded something tangible they ease off and start to mark space.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cheepy play for Lloris if we make the CL and Spurs don't...? For the hell of it?

Washington Irving

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Cheepy play for Lloris if we make the CL and Spurs don't...? For the hell of it?

That would be glorious, but it'll never happen for a fee LFC would be willing to pay.

Utopia Parkway

Been linked with a move for Oxtail-Chamberpot in tomorrow's rags.

Not for me I must say.

Osmosis Jones

Lloris would be perfect, no idea how Spurs snatched him up, even when they signed him he was pretty high profile. No reason not to go for him if we get CL ahead of Spurs, I'd be happy to pay crazy money for him.

x43r0

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Cheepy play for Lloris if we make the CL and Spurs don't...? For the hell of it?

He just signed a new contract til 2022 so the fee would be astronomical

tastyt

Not to hijack the thread lads but just on the goalie issue, I cant believe so many people under rate the influence of a top keeper.

You rarely if ever win a league with a sub standard goalkeeper, even schmeichel last season came up with huge saves.

Cech, de gea, hart, van der saar, were all crucial and win you points you might not realise, as well as that they make the defence play better and calmer.

I think hart would be a good signing, yes hes made mistakes but he has the medals and has been at the business end of a title run in and that experience would count.

Liverpool have the team but I definitely think ye need a keeper.

MD1990

Would be happy to get Chamberlain.
I think under Klopp he could develop into an excellent winger & he should be playing more at Arsenal. He is a bit injury prone though & I can't see it happening in January.

Turtyturd

Offloaded Ibe, can't see us buying a worse player in chamberlain.

Harry Palmr

Seems a weird one, isn't he injured at the moment? As a January fill-in he makes no sense and for the likely fee 20-25m surely Klopp can get better elsewhere.

MD1990

It is probably just Chamberlain's agent looking for a a new deal actually.
Don't see any Liverpool Journo's linking us to Chamberlain just the London one's.

Agent Coulson

£25m is the reported fee for OX if a team was to bid.

Offer Mr Wenger £15m and £1.

amber69

Agent Coulson wrote: »

£25m is the reported fee for OX if a team was to bid.

Offer Mr Wenger £15m and £1.

£1m and £15 would be closer

rob316

No thank you.

A sick note and wildly inconsistent. He will go back on the bench once Mane returns so the move is pointless for him too.

klose

I read a table in the arsenal thread ox has 6 goals and 6 assists this season(2 and 4 in the league) not sure what to make of it really, wasnt he always touted as a centre mid but forced out wide?

LuckyLloyd

Seems pointless to guess what players will come in under Klopp. The signings we made in the summer were not products of long running speculation (Matip excluded I guess) the previous season, they did not seem massively exciting and yet they have mostly done quite well thus far.

I trust him to advocate successfully for the players he wants and for his signings to be based on perceived suitability for his system.

Pyjamarama

Ox is a high potential player who hasn't quite showed the consistency yet... seems a fairly Kloppy signing. I'd love him anyway, he's got pace and when on form can be awesome. I'll continue to bet on Klopp being able to get the best out of "inconsistent" players.

BullBlackNova

Oxlade-Chamberlain is a handy player who has never really fulfilled his potential, but I'd be surprised.

He's the exact type of player that you expected us to sign under Rodgers, but Klopp has been less predictable in the market.

Also, Wenger does seem to actually like him as a player - he's gotten quite a few chances in the team this season so none of it really adds up if you ask me.

--

On the goalkeeper issue, top GKs are hard to come by and we certainly need an improvement. I'm a firm believer in the idea that a good GK won't win you the league, but a bad one will lose it for you.

But, that said, I'm at a loss as to who we could sign that would be a) affordable, b) available, c) good enough.

Many of the players who tick the boxes are developing and, tbh, that's not the way to go at this time - we already have 2-3 young goalkeepers on the books who may be good down the line. Pickford is a decent goalkeeper, for e.g., but do we really need to be looking at another project?

And then there's the matter of the keeper that will actually fit our style. Because we don't play with designated defensive midfield players, and our full backs tend to attack, and the press, there's a lot of space that can be exploited and we've seen good shot stoppers (which both Karius and Mignolet were before we signed them!!) struggle.

I like Fraser Forster, for e.g., but I could see him being an absolute disaster in our system, and then keeping 20+ clean sheets for, say, Chelsea or Spurs.

I'm at a loss, so maybe it's for the best that I'm not making the decision!!

No to Ox. Very overrated.

Damien360

RoboKlopp wrote: »

No to Ox. Very overrated.

Strong lad, has decent crossing ability, always busy up and down the right. Ex Southampton youths (how do they do this regularly) but arsenal paid £12M for him which is not far behind his real value. £25M is too much for potential but he does have some.

Boom_Bap

The one real positive thing about Ox is that he is always looking to attack. When he picks up the ball, he looks up the pitch.
When Mane gets the ball he does the same which is why our play has changed alot this year, it's more forward driven.

He can also run with the ball, can shoot and pick out a pass. He also knows the league and could slot straight in.

I can see why we are linked with him.

Are there any alternatives that would be a useful stop-gap for this season with a view to being part of a larger squad for next season where ideally we'll be playing more games?