Is it OK to leave a big dog outdoors in this weather?

AndrewJRenko

I don't know much about keeping dogs, so I'm interested in views from others. Our neighbour got what looks like an Andrex puppy dog over the summer. The puppy got lots of fuss and attention at the time, but doesn't seem to be getting too much attention these days. He's quite a big dog now, and has an outside kennel. It seems to be a good size for him, and has some kind of plastic flap door. He whines quite a bit whenever I go out into the garden, but I'm not sure if this is due to the cold or maybe the lack of attention. Is it OK to leave a dog like this in an outdoor kennel in this weather? I don't think I could do it myself, but I don't want to rush to judgement too quick.

The Raptor

No it's not. It's cold outside.

InTheTrees

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

He whines quite a bit whenever I go out into the garden, but I'm not sure if this is due to the cold or maybe the lack of attention. Is it OK to leave a dog like this in an outdoor kennel in this weather? I don't think I could do it myself, but I don't want to rush to judgement too quick.

No, it's certainly not okay.

forgodssake

The way I see it I always think would I be ok outside in this weather ???NO I wouldn't..... Neither is a poor dog no matter the size .

Stealthfins

I'm not a dog owner but it's not OK

Jen Pigs Fly

That poor Labrador ... breaks my heart to think of it!

My own rescue labrador was sentenced to a miserable life outside ... he now hates being outside especially when it rains luckily my lab managed to get off the chain so to speak .... he now sleeps with his family upstairs in any bed of his choosing!

It's not ok to leave any dog outside in that cold ... forgotten about, no family, no love, no comfort, no purpose

OU812

Absolutely not ok to be outdoors. I wouldn't be letting him upstairs to any bed he chooses, but indoors is a must.

My own dog has a very comfy bed in a quiet corner beside a radiator and knows he's not allowed upstairs (can't imagine having a dog in a bed, ick ick ick), but he had water and heat & comfort & free reign downstairs - sometimes we find he's pulled his bed away from the radiator if he's too warm & he's asleep in the middle of the floor.

Dogs are outdoor anaimals, they aren't humans and certainly aren't babies. Once he has shelter he will be fine, having dogs living in the house is a new thing that's emerged (in cities) over in the last 20 years or so.

Growing up in the country side where people deal with all sorts of animals everyday having a dog or cat inside the back door of the house was and for most still is unheard off.

Even kittens or puppies wouldn't be let in the house at home never mind grown dogs and they always lived happy and long lives.

Edit: just to add I wouldn't move a dog that's been used to inside outside but a dog should never be gotten used to inside in the first place.

Water John

Dogs are fine in a covered kennel or shed. Once they are dry and sheltered.
Don't treat animals the same as humans, there different, have fur etc.

This dog sounds lonely.

JayWalsh

My lad, an 11 year old JRT, and they love the fire, just demanded to be left outside to his kennel.
Sometimes they just get too hot indoors.
He sleeps outside and has done for 11 years, never done him any harm, never at the vets for anything other than check ups.

R.D. aka MR.D

If the dog is a labrador, then they are quite a hardy breed. They are used in many places, including colder climates for hunting which might involve swimming in very cold water.

If the dog is an outdoor dog and has an adequate kennel, then he should be fine unless the temperatures drop well below freezing.

I'm a keep dogs indoors kind of person but grew up on a farm so know that dogs will actually be totally fine outside if they have the right shelter and bedding.

heldel00

Away for the night.
Relying on my brother in law, who is most certainly not a doggie person, to put our little dog in to the shed tonight. Rang him earlier and it sounded like he was in a pub watching rugby. Worried!!!

DBB

Kaiden Orange Cowboy wrote: »

Dogs are outdoor anaimals, they aren't humans and certainly aren't babies. Once he has shelter he will be fine, having dogs living in the house is a new thing that's emerged (in cities) over in the last 20 years or so.

No, it's not. There are ancient manuscripts dating back thousands of years written by middle-eastern hound owners (hunting hounds, greyhounds) describing the importance of keeping your dog close by you, including in your dwelling, to maximise the dog's welfare, bond with his master, and willingness to work for his master.
People are very quick to ignore the fact that it's not just about the dog feeling the cold... Being kept alone outside is disastrous for the dog's mental welfare and emotional wellbeing. Dogs kept outside alone suffer from more behavioural problems and training issues than indoor dogs. It's that simple.
This business of keeping dogs outside, particularly pet dogs, whilst not unique to Ireland, is a topic of great shock to people from the many other countries where it is considered abnormal to keep a dog outside the home.
So, maybe keeping dogs alone outside is new to Ireland (actually, I'm not sure it is... I don't remember any dogs within my frame of reference as a child being kept outside... And that's a tad longer than 20 years... And I knew a lot if dogs ), but Ireland is actually rather unusual in this"dogs belong outside" attitude.

I don't understand why anyone would get a PET dog, and leave them outside!
If they are a pet, part of the family, why leave them outside.
A lot of country people have outside dogs, I have no problem with that, they are outside dogs. My grandparents had outside dogs, in the countryside, they had a kind of job, barking etc if anyone came near.
But a pet is different, my granny got a little pet dog when she got older, a little jack Russell, that slept inside beside her bed, by the fire in the day. But she still had outside dogs, that barked whenever someone was near. Their outside dogs still had barns and sheds to sleep in though!
And guaranteed if a big freeze hit, all those outside dogs would be allowed into the kitchen at night.
What's the point in having a pet and leaving it outside?

jimf

if you want a dog that's totally ignored and left outside day and night without interaction why not just go and buy a stuffed one

they are a lot easier to wash no food or vet bills and no doggy footprints around the house or furniture

the problem is the cute little puppy stage is very short lived in the doggy lifetime

jimf

jimf wrote: »

if you want a dog that's totally ignored and left outside day and night without interaction why not just go and buy a stuffed one

they are a lot easier to wash no food or vet bills and no doggy footprints around the house or furniture

the problem is the cute little puppy stage is very short lived in the doggy lifetime

Not allowing a dog in the house is a perfectly legitimate way to keep a dog and does not mean it's ignored, doesn't have interaction and walks or does not live a long and happy life. As a person from a rural area I would know more people with dogs than most and the vast majority are exclusively outdoor (with shelter of course be it a kennel or shed). I think city folk baby animals too much as they arent used to dealing with them.

AndrewJRenko

Thanks for all the varying views. Would you have any idea if the DSPCA would consider keeping such a dog outside as 'neglect' that would be worthy of intervention? I'm not too sure that I want to go down that road at all, but I'm just wondering if it is an option at the end of the day.

VonVix

Dogs are social animals, they need company and interaction, the idea of a dog spending day and night outside just seems unnecessary. Sure, the dog may be walked and fed, but that's what, one hour out of 24?

I have three dogs, one of them being a German Shepherd, he was raised as an inside dog from the moment we brought him home, if I leave him outside by himself he does his business, then scratches the door to come back inside. If I ignored him, he would start barking and whining to be back inside, not because he doesn't want to be outside, but because he wants to be where I am. The idea of a dog like him being left outside 24/7 breaks my heart knowing my boy's nature.

SteM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Thanks for all the varying views. Would you have any idea if the DSPCA would consider keeping such a dog outside as 'neglect' that would be worthy of intervention? I'm not too sure that I want to go down that road at all, but I'm just wondering if it is an option at the end of the day.

No, as long as it has adequate shelter, food and water then the dspca won't get involved.

DBB

If the dog has a kennel, it's unlikely they'll intervene.
Under the new animal welfare legislation, one could argue that a dog kept alone in a garden, particularly if displaying stressed behaviours, is in contravention of the law, as it goes against the Five Freedoms that the new law is *meant* to encapsulate.
However, whilst I've heard of one or two cases in which the ISPCA successfully argued that chaining a dog in a yard contradicted his Five Freedoms, there seems to be a general hesitancy to bring test cases to court. Pity... Our neighbours in the UK are far better at this kind of thing!

http://www.dspca.ie/FiveFreedoms

strandroad

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Thanks for all the varying views. Would you have any idea if the DSPCA would consider keeping such a dog outside as 'neglect' that would be worthy of intervention? I'm not too sure that I want to go down that road at all, but I'm just wondering if it is an option at the end of the day.

They would consider the dog to have adequate provisions (shelter and presumably food and water) so no.
You might want to have a chat with your neighbours instead, assuming that they are otherwise decent but clueless, to tell them that their dog is whining and unhappy alone in the cold (dogs are sturdy but for a pet puppy it's a huge change). They may not know, or they may know and push it out of their minds but will be willing to take action once a neighbour tells them the same. Or there's no shame in rehoming the dog responsibly if they are so inclined.

DBB

Taking up on mhge's point, depending upon the individual investigating SPCA officer, although they may not feel they have a case against an owner whose dog is living in such circumstances, they may nevertheless call to the house and have a wee chat with the owners. In many cases, this semi-official intervention is all it takes for the owner to do *something* to improve the dog's lot, even if that means surrendering it to the SPCA for rehoming.

Mr Arrior

I've a collie and he won't stay indoors overnight. Hes scraping at hthe door to get outside. We have a pen made up and a kennel with a basket and massive soft bed to lie on. He's more than happy.

DBB

I think it needs to be recognised now, before this thread descends into the mess that these threads tend to descend into, that some dogs prefer to be outside, and also that there are many working dogs not living in the house who live very happy, healthy, fulfilled lives... By working dogs, I mean those that spend a lot of their day doing stuff with and/or nearby their owner, doing what they were bred for.
But that's not what this thread is about.
This thread, as I understand it, is about a pet dog being kept alone in a back garden, with practically nothing to do all day... Not much interaction with humans or other dogs, and the bare minimum supplied to keep him existing.
That is a very, very different scenario for a dog than the one I described above.

colly10

I think it's more to do with interactaion than the cold. Our dog sleeps in the shed at night but is in the house whenever we're home. It's not bothered by the cold, it just wants to be wherever you are.
Alowing the dog to be around you for only half an hour a day is cruel in my mind, with that said, if i'm not working from home I know it'll be ok when im away.
It just needs a reasonable amount of company

Stoner

Mr Arrior wrote:

I've a collie and he won't stay indoors overnight. Hes scraping at hthe door to get outside. We have a pen made up and a kennel with a basket and massive soft bed to lie on. He's more than happy.

I've two collies. They are in during the day and out into their kennels at night. They are very hairy and their coats are in great condition. When it's very cold I leave them in. But they prefer being outside, often they head to the coldest part of the house for a sleep, up against the external doors etc.

I don't even have bedding for them they drag it out . Their houses are in different corners and very well raised up off the ground. They are wooden with an insulated roof. The entrances face walls and I have a deck on each one for the summer so they can be cool and dry and off the ground. The flooring is wooden and there is a foam mat 20mm on the floors

With the right dry shelter and out of a draft a two coated collie I think my dogs are healthier out side at night.

I mind a westie sometimes he gets on fine with my dogs has his own house, but at night I leave him indoors as he is not built for it. He'll often share with one if the collies but they seldom share a kennel.

AndrewJRenko

colly10 wrote: »

I think it's more to do with interactaion than the cold. Our dog sleeps in the shed at night but is in the house whenever we're home. It's not bothered by the cold, it just wants to be wherever you are.

You could well be right on the cause of the dog's complaining. I guess we're just not close enough to really understand what's going on.

InTheTrees

Kaiden Orange Cowboy wrote: »

As a person from a rural area I would know more people with dogs than most and the vast majority are exclusively outdoor (with shelter of course be it a kennel or shed).

As a person from a rural area I remember when you'd find animals dying by the side of the road from neglect. I remember when neutering a dog would have been a joke, you just put the littler in a bag and throw them in a lake.

Treatment of animals in rural areas isnt necessarily a standard to aspire to.

gflood

I have a 1.5 years old cocker spaniel. He is in and out most of the day, in during the evenings but absolutely he goes out at night no matter how cold. I have an thermal insulated kennel for him and a heat retaining cushion. He is warm as toast in the mornings and sometimes I have to get him out of the kennel again.

John_Rambo

You'll get a better behaved, better socialised, happier and friendlier dog if it's kept with the family.

They're pack animals it's a no brainer, anyone telling you dogs do well excluded from family life in a back garden doesn't know what they're talking about and have most likely never owned a dog.

Water John

AFAIK all the experts on here are saying the dog is not a pack animal.

Sleeper12

Noor Echoing Cave wrote:

Dogs are outdoor anaimals, they aren't humans and certainly aren't babies. Once he has shelter he will be fine, having dogs living in the house is a new thing that's emerged (in cities) over in the last 20 years or so.

Totally agree although I have 2 house dogs myself. Some owners forget that they are animals & in reality should be outdoors. Obviously a kennel is important

John_Rambo

Water John wrote: »

AFAIK all the experts on here are saying the dog is not a pack animal.

Social animals then. They do better in the company of other dogs and humans.

Ann22

Dogs feel the cold like we do. A lab has short fur, he's not a siberian husky or an alaskan malamute who is physically adapted to a colder climate so he would love a warm radiator to lie beside.
He will survive in a well insulated kennel with quality thermal bedding once its not sub zero temperatures (in which case there's only so much curling up in a ball will do to keep him warm) but he will feel cold and lonely. A good quality dog coat would help him. Perhaps you could give one as a gift?
There's no doubt he would be much happier in the house with his family. So any people do this. Buy cute puppies then banish them to the back garden when they grow.
I hope he is walked regularly. He will likely develop over excitable behaviour and will be hard to manage.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

You'll get a better behaved, better socialised, happier and friendlier dog if it's kept with the family.

They're pack animals it's a no brainer, anyone telling you dogs do well excluded from family life in a back garden doesn't know what they're talking about and have most likely never owned a dog.

A lot of people don't believe animals should be living in the house, it's a perfectly legimate outlook and they can very much know what they are talking about. Saying an animal can't live outside sounds more like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about imo.

Obviously if a dog has been accustomed to being inside will find it hard going out but if a pup is living outside from day one like many people do then they will be perfectly happy as outside pets once they have a shed or kennel to shelter form the weather and sleep in at night.

DBB

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Totally agree although I have 2 house dogs myself. Some owners forget that they are animals & in reality should be outdoors. Obviously a kennel is important

Quite the contradiction that you keep your dogs inside! Why do you keep them in when you feel they should be outdoors?
As you feel dogs should be kept outside, could you just address for me the bigger problem of social isolation and consequent behavioural problems for pet dogs kept alone outside, and remember I'm staying on topic here and referring to a dog that is alone for long periods in a back garden?
Can you also address why pet dogs (and indeed working hounds as alluded to in my first post) "should" be outside when they have been very deliberately kept inside as human companions for thousands of years?
They're animals alright, as are we, but being an animal is not a determinant of having to live outside. Pet dogs are not livestock... They are domesticated companion animals. How can a dog alone in a garden be a companion to anyone... Remembering there's mountains of evidence that they both want and need to be with their humans in order to thrive emotionally.
Like I said above, people from other countries are aghast at the Irish attitude that dogs belong outside. It's a very strange view that's not based on any evidence.

DBB

Kaiden Orange Cowboy wrote: »

A lot of people don't believe animals should be living in the house, it's a perfectly legimate outlook and they can very much know what they are talking about. Saying an animal can't live outside sounds more like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about imo.

Obviously if a dog has been accustomed to being inside will find it hard going out but if a pup is living outside from day one like many people do then they will be perfectly happy as outside pets once they have a shed or kennel to shelter form the weather and sleep in at night.

Again, can we leave weather and the elements to one side, and focus on the vastly bigger problem... could you please explain how a dog, very much bred to be a sociable companion animal, that's kept alone outside in a garden could avoid developing behavioural problems associated with loneliness, boredom, social isolation, and inherent lack of training?
I find that a lot of the people you suggest "know what they're talking about" are those who may not be aware of the mountains of literature which shows that dogs living alone, from any age, do not do well behaviourally and emotionally. You're not going to find a person who knows what they're talking about based on actual empirical evidence who'll advocate or agree with leaving a dog alone for long periods. They are social, companion animals. That puts them in a different category to this general "all animals should be outside" thing that's being thrown around here at liberty. Saying it often enough doesn't make it true, and in this case, research-led evidence also says it's not true.

DBB

DBB wrote: »

Again, can we leave weather and the elements to one side, and focus on the vastly bigger problem... could you please explain how a dog, very much bred to be a sociable companion animal, that's kept alone outside in a garden could avoid developing behavioural problems associated with loneliness, boredom, social isolation, and inherent lack of training?
I find that a lot of the people you suggest "know what they're talking about" are those who may not be aware of the mountains of literature which shows that dogs living alone, from any age, do not do well behaviourally and emotionally. You're not going to find a person who knows what they're talking about based on actual empirical evidence who'll advocate or agree with leaving a dog alone for long periods. They are social, companion animals. That puts them in a different category to this general "all animals should be outside" thing that's being thrown around here at liberty. Saying it often enough doesn't make it true, and in this case, research-led evidence also says it's not true.

I'm not saying they shouldn't get interaction, but they don't need to be in the house to get it. They also don't need the level of pampering suggest by many here it will just make them expect it as the norm making a lot of extra work for their owners and making them less able to occupy themelsves during the day when people are out at work etc or away for the evening.

tk123

I wonder how many of the people who accuse others of pampering/babying their pets "don't hear" their own dogs barking morning, noon and night driving their neighbours mad because they're going out of their minds being dumped outside all day? The CKS behind us should be starting to bark in the next 30 mins but sure he's has a kennel (I assume) so he's nice and warm? Funny the barking doesn't sound like it's coming from a kennel?

FrostyJack

Noor Echoing Cave wrote:

I'm not saying they shouldn't get interaction, but they don't need to be in the house to get it. They also don't need the level of pampering suggest by many here it will just make them expect it as the norm making a lot of extra work for their owners and making them less able to occupy themelsves during the day when people are out at work etc or away for the evening.

How much of the day do you expect the average person spends in their garden? Unless you work in the garden I would guess it would be 1 hour max so the dog would be 23 hours on its own. How do dogs occupy themselves without humans? Crossword puzzles, movies? One of my dogs won't even eat a bone unless someone is there she just sleeps. I have the camera on them when we are out so I know what they do. I would imagine most dogs are like this unless they are barking and digging holes.

DBB

Kaiden Orange Cowboy wrote: »

I'm not saying they shouldn't get interaction, but they don't need to be in the house to get it. They also don't need the level of pampering suggest by many here it will just make them expect it as the norm making a lot of extra work for their owners and making them less able to occupy themelsves during the day when people are out at work etc or away for the evening.

But you said the dog would be fine as long as he has shelter, it took until now for you to concede that they also need interaction as well as shelter?!
These are companion animals, it is surely by definition then that the owner wants to have a bit of extra work to reap the many benefits of their companionship... And for the record, it has been shown in the scientific literature that time spent with the owner, and the level of "pampering" (as you call it) the dogs gets, bears no relation to the development of separation-related behavioural disorders when the owner leaves. So you can put that to bed.
The problem we're discussing here, and assuming we want to stay on topic, is a dog living in a back garden that's exhibiting signs of distress at his solitude/living conditions. He, along with thousands of other back yard dogs, is simply not getting enough interaction... If he was, those behaviours wouldn't be exhibited.
For a dog to get enough social interaction, and taking into account individual variation, you're looking at hours of interaction... And I'm not talking about full-on contact with the owner here... Simply just being with the owner, just lying there as the owner does their daily tasks, is enough for most dogs. The difference this small thing makes to their wellbeing, and other spin-off factors such as training, is enormous. It's not pampering, it is a biological need, again that's not my personal opinion, it has been repeatedly shown in the literature... It's just simple, straightforward companionship they want, and this is what is seriously lacking in the lives of back yard dogs.
They don't have a farmyard to root around in, or an owner that's coming and going about his working day with the dog hanging out with him/her, or an owner who has a vested interest in getting the dog fit and ready for the hunting season. Any farmer will tell you how cruel and potentially damaging it is for sociable animals like cattle, sheep or horses to be left in solitude... Decent farmers will avoid doing so at all costs unless absolutely necessary. As companion animals, dogs need the companionship of their owners (and again, let me reiterate, this is a biological, genetically-driven need), and back yard dogs just don't get that, whether by design or pure ignorance on the part of their owners.
If the owners of lonely, bored back yard dogs just let them into the house, just for a few hours each day, these dogs' lives would be significantly enhanced. Let's face it, these owners aren't going to spend enough time out in the garden year-round. Just giving them shelter and blithely saying they'll be fine with just that is in direct contrast to what the scientific literature tells us, and to what clued-in dog owners already know.

tk123

tk123 wrote: »

I wonder how many of the people who accuse others of pampering/babying their pets "don't hear" their own dogs barking morning, noon and night driving their neighbours mad because they're going out of their minds being dumped outside all day? The CKS behind us should be starting to bark in the next 30 mins but sure he's has a kennel (I assume) so he's nice and warm? Funny the barking doesn't sound like it's coming from a kennel?

I hear dogs barking from inside houses just as much from outside and surely spending the day in the garden is better than in the kitchen. Outside they can run around if they wish, don't have to hold their pee etc.

FrostyJack wrote: »

How much of the day do you expect the average person spends in their garden? Unless you work in the garden I would guess it would be 1 hour max so the dog would be 23 hours on its own. How do dogs occupy themselves without humans? Crossword puzzles, movies? One of my dogs won't even eat a bone unless someone is there she just sleeps. I have the camera on them when we are out so I know what they do. I would imagine most dogs are like this unless they are barking and digging holes.

Yes there is no doubt dogs spend most of their day asleep including when around people as I see dogs asleep in people houses when they are around too so in reality an outside more than likely gets as much play, walking etc as an indoor one as both dogs will be asleep regardless of being in a living room or a kennel or shed.

jimf

I have 4 springer spaniels hunting dogs they live sleep outside they are warm have a choice of cuddling up together at night if its cold

they sleep in raised beds have good vet care and are better fed than myself but is this enough not by a long shot

they are out of their runs for at least 1 hour morning and the same at evening time for a long run in a bog near where I live can only be described as springer heaven but the most important thing is they have interaction with me and each other this imho is where the happiness and contentment comes in a dogs life

they are not nervous or shy and kids could sleep on their backs if allowed

where I have issues is where somebody thinks its enough to feed a dog and look at them 24 hours a day out there back window this is not a life its an existence

Sleeper12

My wife wants the dogs to live in the house so they do. I'm fine with that but I also know that they would be fine outdoors with a proper shelter. Pet the Vet said on newstalk only last week that dogs outside are fine so long as they are exercised regularly.
In the UK you can't adopt a dog from the dogs home unless someone in the house doesn't work. I do believe in social isolation but dogs keep indoors on their own all also suffer from this.
Dogs come from wolves and dogs most certainly are pack animals. This is why we have 2 dogs. There was an ad on tv in the 70s or 80s. It showed a family dog from the country being let out for a run in the fields after dinner. It went on to show the dog (family pet) joining other dogs and hunting sheep. This was a government sponsored ad. Dogs are not human they are animals. It's dangerous to think otherwise.
I am a dog lover. I've grown up with dozens of dogs but I'll never be the type of dog lover that thinks that their dog won't do animal things. Some owners who think that their dogs are almost humanMay get a big surprise some day. I think people with huge muscular dogs are taking a massive risk with their family.
I love all dogs but I do know that they are animals. I have a huge respect for them but I also know that their animal instinct may take over sometime.

Edit: golden Labradors were actually bred for hunting originally. Very closely related to golden retrievers

DBB

It's interesting, speaking of working dogs, and I have sniffer/detection dogs myself, the police dogs and customs dogs in Ireland and the UK (and presumably further afield too... I just have personal experience of here and UK) are all kept in their handlers' homes as family members... As a legal requirement they have kennels built in their gardens to house the dogs, but there's very few of them using them
Why? From the handlers I've spoken to, and indeed having read their SOPs, they feel that it's infinitely better for the dog's welfare and training/obedience to be inside the house... I can see exactly what they mean, because when they're inside with us, they're under our constant guidance and influence, and we're consequently hugely more tuned into each other and with an extraordinary bond, so we all work better together. Are my dogs and police dogs pampered? I'd just say they're having their needs met, and are well cared for.

Dyr

Kaiden Orange Cowboy wrote: »

A lot of people don't believe animals should be living in the house, it's a perfectly legimate outlook and they can very much know what they are talking about. Saying an animal can't live outside sounds more like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about imo.

A lot of people think all sorts of things, Stupid doesn't become any less stupid just because it has plenty of company.

tk123

Kaiden Orange Cowboy wrote: »

I hear dogs barking from inside houses just as much from outside and surely spending the day in the garden is better than in the kitchen. Outside they can run around if they wish, don't have to hold their pee etc.

My two have no interest in running around the garden. When they need to go to the loo they'll ask to go out and run back in. The kitchen is actually one of their favourite places because they can get heat off the oven or radiator!

EDIT - and we're off with the CKC barking..

jimf

yours are lucky to have 2 heat sources in the kitchen tk123 mine would have only 1 as the oven is never on

ouch jesus shes lookin over my shoulder again

DBB

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Pet the Vet said on newstalk only last week that dogs outside are fine so long as they are exercised

With respect, Pete's a vet, and he's a lovely man, but he's not a behavioural specialist. He has come out with many a one-liner over the years that have professional behaviourist's associations facepalming.

Dogs come from wolves and dogs most certainly are pack animals. This is why we have 2 dogs. There was an ad on tv in the 70s or 80s. It showed a family dog from the country being let out for a run in the fields after dinner. It went on to show the dog (family pet) joining other dogs and hunting sheep. This was a government sponsored ad. Dogs are not human they are animals. It's dangerous to think otherwise.

That ad was a cartoon, in fairness.
In any case, the figures show that the majority of attacks on sheep are carried out by one dog, most of the remainder by two dogs that live together... That's from a series of UK reports on livestock attacks, not my own suppositions.

Dogs are not pack animals. They are sociable and companionable, but they are not pack animals. To clarify about wolves and dogs, and again please let me point out that this has been shown again and again by the very best researchers around the world for decades now... Dogs didn't just "come from wolves". They came from wolves that had a tendency to go it alone... Solitary wolves, who themselves had evolved an independent way of life by existing on the outskirts of human settlements feeding from the middens and waste dumps.
As the evolutionary biologists who have written this stuff up point out, there is no need for wolves, or modern-day feral dogs, with a ready and stationary food supply, to retain a pack structure for hunting. Modern-day feral dogs that live in city dumps around the world (and there are far more of them in the world than there are pet dogs) form loose social groups for reproductive purposes including temporary mother/offspring groupings, but that's about it.
The ethologists and evolutionary biologists are at pains to point out that dogs are most certainly not "pack" animals... They evolved from animals that were (genetically) not pack-forming.
In any case, wolves aren't "pack" animals as such either... At least, not in the sense that the term is often bandied about. They live in closely bonded family groups, as opposed to being made up of disparate individuals who just want to be chums.

bmwguy

I have a Labrador and brought her for a walk this morning, freezing it was and she jumped in the freezing river and had a swim around! I don't think labs feel the cold but it's the outside part with no interaction that is the problem rather than the cold. But there is no health issue in my opinion if they have shelter.

My lab is an indoor dog by the way but I don't think they will struggle outside.

Sleeper12

DBB wrote:

With respect, Pete's a vet, and he's a lovely man, but he's not a behavioural specialist. He has come out with many a one-liner over the years that have professional behaviourist's associations facepalming.

Pet also has pets

DBB wrote:

That ad was a cartoon, in fairness. In any case, the figures show that the majority of attacks on sheep are carried out by one dog, most of the remainder by two dogs that live together... That's from a series of UK reports on livestock attacks, not my own suppositions.

The ad wasn't a cartoon. If memory serves they used an Irish red settler. Obviously they didn't show the dogs attacking sheep but at the same time that was the message of the ad.

Have to say this again, dogs are pack animals. Now I'm happy to say that they interact great with humans and they love social interaction but definitely a pack animal. What do you call a grouping of dogs? Answer: a pack of dogs.
Remember we take them out of their natural environment but when left to their own devices they will run in packs