Downsizing and looking for a new small car

reni10

I am currently driving a 2005 S40 Volvo and now looking to downsize to a much smaller and economical car and was looking at the various offers available for 2017 so would appreciate some advice.

My Volvo is worth maybe €2000 so trying to maximise its value withe Scrappage deals etc.
Currently putting €100 worth of petrol in every month and paying €180 a quarter for Roadtax so want to try to cut down on these costs etc and try to maximise the savings in a new more economical smaller car.

At the moment there are a few offers I am looking at and would be looking at PCP finance as well:

1. Nissan Note with €4,000 scrappage and about 6.9% APR PCP

2. Seat Ibiza with €2,500 scrappage and 0% APR PCP

3. Skoda Fabia €4,000 scrappage and not sure of PCP APR yet.

4. Dacia Sandero Stepway No srappage deal and 4.9% PCP APR.

I would be looking to spend no more that €50 a week for a new PCP funded car so any other suggestions on where to get the best deal for a decent car?

thierry14

What engine is in your Volvo?

If it's a diesel you won't be getting much better economy in the new cars

reni10

thierry14 wrote: »

What engine is in your Volvo?

If it's a diesel you won't be getting much better economy in the new cars

1.8l Petrol Volvo !!!

So my thinking is by going with something new, smaller and more economical I should be about to half my Petrol to about €50 a month?

Gael23

My pick from that selection would be the Note and next the Fabia, which has €2300 scrappage. Either way you wont get either of them for €50 a week. A quick calculation for both those works out at around €230 a month. Also remember then you have to fund the final payment if you want to keep the car after 3 years.

Mervyn Skidmore

What about Hyundai i20?

reni10

Gael23 wrote: »

My pick from that selection would be the Note and next the Fabia, which has €2300 scrappage. Either way you wont get either of them for €50 a week. A quick calculation for both those works out at around €230 a month. Also remember then you have to fund the final payment if you want to keep the car after 3 years.

This is what is listed on the Nissan website as an example for the note:

Note 1.2 XE €16,945 €7,198 €4,000 €12,945 €216.26 €49.91 €2,038.05 6.9%

So it is saying that the weekly payment is €49.91 a week which would be ok for me as I would be saving hopefully €50 a month in fuel costs and then also €40 in road tax a month and would have the warranty for 3 years as well.

Also at the end of the 3 years I would probably just look to go again with another PCP for the same car again with the Guaranteed Future Value which should cover the deposit again to keep the payments at €50 a week.

Gael23

reni10 wrote: »

This is what is listed on the Nissan website as an example for the note:

Note 1.2 XE €16,945 €7,198 €4,000 €12,945 €216.26 €49.91 €2,038.05 6.9%

So it is saying that the weekly payment is €49.91 a week which would be ok for me as I would be saving hopefully €50 a month in fuel costs and then also €40 in road tax a month and would have the warranty for 3 years as well.

Also at the end of the 3 years I would probably just look to go again with another PCP for the same car again with the Guaranteed Future Value which should cover the deposit again to keep the payments at €50 a week.

The XE spec is fairly awful. I would be looking at the mid range SV spec in reality which is €17,745

colm_mcm

If you want to save money, downsize the car if you must but don't buy a new car

You'll still be down money by changing if you're saving €100 a month on fuel.

reni10

colm_mcm wrote: »

If you want to save money, downsize the car if you must but don't buy a new car

You'll still be down money by changing if you're saving €100 a month on fuel.

Not sure I am with you in this statement?

If I am saving over €100 a month in fuel and roadtax and I am paying €200 then for approx €25 a week I can have a new car and not have to worry about maintenance, nct etc. for the next 3 years then that to me is pretty decent.

Otherwise I would be looking at a second hand car in the €10k range but would not have the warranty and in 3 years time would only be worth about 4k and would just be in the same boat again with an older car that is not worth much and is costing me maintain.

colm_mcm

reni10 wrote: »

Not sure I am with you in this statement?

If I am saving over €100 a month in fuel and roadtax and I am paying €200 then for approx €25 a week I can have a new car and not have to worry about maintenance, nct etc. for the next 3 years then that to me is pretty decent.

Otherwise I would be looking at a second hand car in the €10k range but would not have the warranty and in 3 years time would only be worth about 4k and would just be in the same boat again with an older car that is not worth much and is costing me maintain.

200 a month for 3 years is 7200 including interest. You'll still owe the rest at the end. As in you won't own the car. You'll either have to hand the car back, pay off the rest or refinance another car.

bear1

Do yourself a favour, sell the s40 privately for 2k.
Then take that 2k and buyou yourself a small car
Debt free, yours from the get go and no hassle.
To take on debt to save 50e a month on fuel is ludicrous.

Ded_Zebra

If you would like a new car by all means buy a new car and enjoy it!

Just don't buy a new car with the expectation of saving money.

Over the next 3 years your Volvo will depreciate at very most €1000. Your new car could easily depreciate by €10,000!

bmwguy

Yep you won't save money overall unless your Volvo is a dog and permanently in for repairs. This is 2 threads in a row I opened on same topic. But nothing wrong with wanting a new car, but depreciation on a new car will normally outweigh running costs on an old car.

Del2005

reni10 wrote: »

If I am saving over €100 a month in fuel and roadtax and I am paying €200 then for approx €25 a week I can have a new car and not have to worry about maintenance, nct etc. for the next 3 years then that to me is pretty decent.

You have to worry about maintenance in a new car.

reni10

bmwguy wrote: »

Yep you won't save money overall unless your Volvo is a dog and permanently in for repairs. This is 2 threads in a row I opened on same topic. But nothing wrong with wanting a new car, but depreciation on a new car will normally outweigh running costs on an old car.

So would you recommend buying something like a second hand 2012 Nissan note and get a Bank Loan to finance it?

I will be straight into NCT territory in 2017 and have the worry about if anything goes wrong with it I could be up for thousands to get it fixed etc.?

The cost of the Bank Loan on about €7k for a used Note is the same as the €50 a week for the PCP and a brand new car with warranty so how does second hand make sense if the costs are basically the same?

My existing car is nearly 12 years old now and costing me a fair whack to run and I am only dreading the day something big goes wrong with it and then I can't even get something like the €4k Nissan scrappage deal on it!

diomed

Buy the 2009 Toyota Auris I traded in with only 56k kms on the clock (still on offer at €11k). It got 67mpg. I bought a 161 D nearly new Toyota Avensis.
Buying new is nice, but you are dropping a shed-load of money.
There are plenty of good second-hand cars available now and dealers want buyers.

bazz26

They won't be selling it anytime soon asking 11k for a soon to be 8 year old Auris.

bear1

Has the volvo giving you any major repairs?
From the sounds of it it's simply fuel and tax

reni10

reni10 wrote: »

The cost of the Bank Loan on about €7k for a used Note is the same as the €50 a week for the PCP and a brand new car with warranty so how does second hand make sense if the costs are basically the same?

There is a difference. In the PCP : you trade in your volvo, (top up the deposit), pay the monthly payments and at the end you might end up with nothing. For the second hand car you tradetrade in, finance the difference and at the end you own the car.

What would be the difference if say you traded in and financed a new car with a credit union loan over five years?

reni10

I have no real desire to own another old car is the thing here and I would be looking to go on another PCP every 3 years and always having a fairly new car with a warranty.

If I spend 7k now on a 5 year old car then in another 3 years it will be worth about 2k again so I am just back to the same as I am now and I own an old car worth 2k and hoping that nothing goes wrong with it...

I think I would prefer to have the use and security of a fairly new car for the same price as a second hand car that will only get me back square one again in a few years so instead of solving the problem it just pushes a bit down the road...

wild turkey

Im in the same position as the op

Ive narrowed it down to the Note with €4000 scrappage and 6.9 apr and a Corsa se with 2300 trade in and 0% finance

Theres also the Kia rio and venga which I didnt look at yet but seem good value

colm_mcm

Had to laugh at this

Introducing ACTUAL offers. Actually get €4,000 scrappage, across our entire actual range.

The amazing €4,000 Nissan Scrappage offer is back but not for long.

Do you own an old car or van? Would you like to get €4,000 trade-in value for your old car or van?

Well, with Nissan you actually can. It’s simple - Trade in your old car or van with Nissan and get €4,000 guaranteed minimum trade-in value against any new Nissan.

And when we say €4000 scrappage guaranteed, we mean it. It's €4000 scrappage across our entire range, not up to, not nearly, not in around - actually €4,000.

Then in the terms

€3,000 scrappage applies to the NV200.

Skommando

The newer small cars are very good these days, much improved on small cars of the past.

if you can afford to pay the whole car off without PCP do you still get the 4k scrappage ?

colm_mcm

Skommando wrote: »

The newer small cars are very good these days, much improved on small cars of the past.

if you can afford to pay the whole car off without PCP do you still get the 4k scrappage ?

Yeah. You'd still get the scrappage either way.

wild turkey

Skommando wrote: »

The newer small cars are very good these days, much improved on small cars of the past.

if you can afford to pay the whole car off without PCP do you still get the 4k scrappage ?

Yes , 4k or lower apr or free insurance .

road_high

I don't think I could possibly go from a lovely S40 down to some cheap scrappage special Dacia or Hyundai. They have one of the best interiors and seats out there in my opinion. That's just me I suppose but that's something that would really bother me.

Marcusm

reni10 wrote: »

This is what is listed on the Nissan website as an example for the note:

Note 1.2 XE €16,945 €7,198 €4,000 €12,945 €216.26 €49.91 €2,038.05 6.9%

So it is saying that the weekly payment is €49.91 a week which would be ok for me as I would be saving hopefully €50 a month in fuel costs and then also €40 in road tax a month and would have the warranty for 3 years as well.

Also at the end of the 3 years I would probably just look to go again with another PCP for the same car again with the Guaranteed Future Value which should cover the deposit again to keep the payments at €50 a week.

I wonder whether you understand PCP correctly or whether you have simply misdescribed it. At the end of th PCP, the GFV would not be available to cover the next deposit. The GFV is the amount of finance which you owe and coincidentally the minimum amount for which Nissan promise to purchase the 3 year old Note (provided you keep to the terms/conditions etc). You will only have funding for a deposit if the value of the Note exceeds the GFV.

Worst case scenario, you will have spent €7,500 or thereabouts over the period of the PCP plus the value of your Volvo and you may have nothing at the end. You expect to save €3300 or so in fuel/tax.

So net/net being in the Note is going to cost you €4k plus the value of the Volvo less any reduced maintenance costs for a 3 year period plus the hope value of an excess of Note value over GFV to allow you roll into a new PCP.

Only you can decide whether that is worth it for you.

My significant concern would be if you're financial position is such that saving €100 a month is a significant factor then I would worry whether you would be able to cope financially if there was insufficient value to allow you a deposit to start a new PCP. That sort of risk is similar to the prospect of an unplanned maintenance bill for an older car.

reni10

Marcusm wrote: »

I wonder whether you understand PCP correctly or whether you have simply misdescribed it. At the end of th PCP, the GFV would not be available to cover the next deposit. The GFV is the amount of finance which you owe and coincidentally the minimum amount for which Nissan promise to purchase the 3 year old Note (provided you keep to the terms/conditions etc). You will only have funding for a deposit if the value of the Note exceeds the GFV.

At the end of the 3 years I have not heard of anyone on PCP that has stayed within the mileage and condition terms being refused the same type of deal again for the same car so please correct me if this is not a common occurrence?

The dealer wants to keep your business and if you just want to keep on the same term again for the same type of car then I believe this is what they always try to make happen?!?

reni10

reni10 wrote: »

At the end of the 3 years I have not heard of anyone on PCP that has stayed within the mileage and condition terms being refused the same type of deal again for the same car so please correct me if this is not a common occurrence?

The dealer wants to keep your business and if you just want to keep on the same term again for the same type of car then I believe this is what they always try to make happen?!?

There is a long thread elsewhere but those of us who are wary think that second hand cars are expensive at the moment (due to new cars not being purchased during the slump) but that as these pcp deals work their way through the market the price of second hand cars (and value of your future deposit) could/should fall.

Only time will tell.

I got a two year nct on my 07 micra so I will probably be driving it for at least two more years... I am just jealous of people buying new.

Marcusm

reni10 wrote: »

At the end of the 3 years I have not heard of anyone on PCP that has stayed within the mileage and condition terms being refused the same type of deal again for the same car so please correct me if this is not a common occurrence?

The dealer wants to keep your business and if you just want to keep on the same term again for the same type of car then I believe this is what they always try to make happen?!?

Indeed, it is what they willl WANT but whether they can deliver is another matter. You are buying with substantial amounts of "equity" from a scrappage scheme which is indicative of less than stellar sales or poor pricing of the cars compared to competitor models. Nissan is not a new entrant seeking to establish itself but is a middle aged dog trying to keep up with nimbler rivals. The numbers you are looking at are fairly tight and it would not take much movement in the market (evidence the fall in stg which has had such an impact on Irish motoring that imports amount to 35-40% of new registrations). In 3 years time it may simply be the case that there is no scrappage scheme and that there is insufficient equity in the car (excess of market value over GFV) for you to roll into a new car.

PCP has not been a significant part of Irish car financing until the last 3 years; the first deals are only maturing now. Don't take a dealer's assurances what you can do in 3 years time unless he'plays give you a cast iron guarantee which is something he cannot produce!

reni10

Marcusm wrote: »

Indeed, it is what they willl WANT but whether they can deliver is another matter. You are buying with substantial amounts of "equity" from a scrappage scheme which is indicative of less than stellar sales or poor pricing of the cars compared to competitor models. Nissan is not a new entrant seeking to establish itself but is a middle aged dog trying to keep up with nimbler rivals. The numbers you are looking at are fairly tight and it would not take much movement in the market (evidence the fall in stg which has had such an impact on Irish motoring that imports amount to 35-40% of new registrations). In 3 years time it may simply be the case that there is no scrappage scheme and that there is insufficient equity in the car (excess of market value over GFV) for you to roll into a new car.

PCP has not been a significant part of Irish car financing until the last 3 years; the first deals are only maturing now. Don't take a dealer's assurances what you can do in 3 years time unless he'plays give you a cast iron guarantee which is something he cannot produce!

If in 3 years time the bottom really has fallen out of all these PCP plans and I cannot just go again with a new term for the same cost then I would look for a bank loan of about €7k which would pay the final GFV and then my payments would stay about the same again at €50 a week at about 10% interest rates.

Idbatterim

op what are you talking about Willis? your fuel bill and motor tax are low! the depreciation on a new car and loan interest, it will be vastly more expensive than keeping your current car on the road!

Look your idea might make sense IF you are running an expensive car, say a 3L or bigger petrol on cc system, putting in hundred euro a week in fuel etc, along with expensive repair bills...

coming from a 1.8 volvo s40 though?!!!!

reni10

Idbatterim wrote: »

op what are you talking about Willis? your fuel bill and motor tax are low! the depreciation on a new car and loan interest, it will be vastly more expensive than keeping your current car on the road!

Look your idea might make sense IF you are running an expensive car, say a 3L or bigger petrol on cc system, putting in hundred euro a week in fuel etc, along with expensive repair bills...

coming from a 1.8 volvo s40 though?!!!!

To me paying €100 - €120 a month in fuel and €700 a year in Tax and higher insurance and NCT costs etc. for a vehicle which I only drive around town and do less than 10,000km a year is expensive when I can basically more than half these costs and get a new car as part of it!

Also with a 12 year old car I feel something large will go wrong with it soon(clutch, engine etc.) so don't want to have a large €1000+ repair bill on my hands and then still have a 12 year old car and instead would prefer the piece of mind of the warranty etc. on a new car.

Hope that explains it!?!

Idbatterim

motor tax is E636. Id check the insurance cost differential, to see if you will indeed be paying less, it could be more...

I get what you are saying, but you want to change for financial reasons, financially you will be worse off...

If you want to change car for the sake of wanting to change car, I think it makes sense to look at cheaper cars to run at the same time. But switching cars to "save" money on it own, rarely makes sense...

reni10

Idbatterim wrote: »

motor tax is E636. Id check the insurance cost differential, to see if you will indeed be paying less, it could be more...

I get what you are saying, but you want to change for financial reasons, financially you will be worse off...

If you want to change car for the sake of wanting to change car, I think it makes sense to look at cheaper cars to run at the same time. But switching cars to "save" money on it own, rarely makes sense...

I pay the Road tax every quarter so it is €720 for the year when you pay like that...

There is about a €150 saving in the Insurance cost too going from the 1.8l to the 1.2l, I did check this...

I am not saying I will save money as I know I will NOT but what I will be able to get is a new car which is far cheaper then my existing car to run and then also have the piece of mind that I will not have to worry about any large repair bills for the next 3 years and also then more than likely just go for another new car in 3 years time again of the same model and keep my payments the same.

And I can do this for what will work out at about €25 a week when I take all the savings above into account from the smaller and more efficient car.

Idbatterim

I pay the Road tax every quarter so it is €720 for the year when you pay like that...

There is about a €150 saving in the Insurance cost too going from the 1.8l to the 1.2l, I did check this...

I am not saying I will save money as I know I will NOT but what I will be able to get is a new car which is far cheaper then my existing car to run and then also have the piece of mind that I will not have to worry about any large repair bills for the next 3 years and also then more than likely just go for another new car in 3 years time again of the same model and keep my payments the same.

And I can do this for what will work out at about €25 a week when I take all the savings above into account from the smaller and more efficient car.

its good you have checked the insurance, because many just assume a new car will be cheaper. I also tax by the quarter, but on 2.5L car that costs E1080 the year or E1220 if done by the quarter. On a 1.8L I personally wouldnt bother doing it by the quarter...

I get your reasons for doing it. The potential big repair bills are also an IF... Also and some may disagree, when I refer to the running costs of a car, I would include all costs. Surely this is the only fair way to compare cars...

reni10

I think I have narrowed it down to the Note, i20 and Ibiza as all have the scrappage available and all are around the same price per month now just need to get out and test them and get the actual PCP figures from the dealer's!

bmwguy

reni10 wrote: »

To me paying €100 - €120 a month in fuel and €700 a year in Tax and higher insurance and NCT costs etc. for a vehicle which I only drive around town and do less than 10,000km a year is expensive when I can basically more than half these costs and get a new car as part of it!

Also with a 12 year old car I feel something large will go wrong with it soon(clutch, engine etc.) so don't want to have a large €1000+ repair bill on my hands and then still have a 12 year old car and instead would prefer the piece of mind of the warranty etc. on a new car.

Hope that explains it!?!

Fuel will still be 50-60 a month and tax will still be 200+ a year. I do get where you are coming from though. Personally I would sell Volvo privately and buy a 2 or 3 year old with warranty

reni10

I was offered €700 for the Volvo to trade it in against a 4 year old €8k car!

So I think I will take the €4,000 instead for the scrappage!

wild turkey

I looked at the Honda Jazz this evening and was very impressed . As spacious as the note, very stylish and very high spec for the entry model, air con, cruise control, bluetooth, etc .
It would work out cheaper than the sports model note, the only major difference would be the lack of alloys.
€3000 guaranteed trade in
In what we've seen so far it's our favourite, ( Corsa , Ix20, note , Ibiza , Dacia , Clio ) Im hoping the figures work out on this one .

ozt9vdujny3srf

reni10 wrote: »

To me paying €100 - €120 a month in fuel and €700 a year in Tax and higher insurance and NCT costs etc. for a vehicle which I only drive around town and do less than 10,000km a year is expensive when I can basically more than half these costs and get a new car as part of it!

Also with a 12 year old car I feel something large will go wrong with it soon(clutch, engine etc.) so don't want to have a large €1000+ repair bill on my hands and then still have a 12 year old car and instead would prefer the piece of mind of the warranty etc. on a new car.

Hope that explains it!?!

If something goes wrong with he car, barring catastrophic failure, you will still get your scrappage deal if they are still running. The fact is, nothing has gone wrong with this car yet. Also, with the actual value of the car - you don't stand to make much of a loss if it is a write off, as it is worth very little on the used market anyway.

100 - 120 a month in fuel seems high to me for 10000km. at 20 mpg or 14l/100km, you are looking at about 1400 litres of fuel a year, which comes to 1800 euro at current prices. Is your kilometerage higher, or are you inflating the cost because you like the idea of having a new car? For arguments sake, lets say your new car costs 1/3 of that in fuel.

so thats a saving of 1200 a year on fuel with a new car.
tax on a 1.8 is ~650 euro. If the new car costs ~150 a year to tax, you are looking at 500 a year saving.
Lets say for arguments sake your insurance is 200 less on the new car (based on one of your earlier posts estimating 150)
lets also say for arguments sake that the car is a maintenance disaster and you have to spend 1000 euro a year on servicing and repairs. If the new car costs 200 in servicing, thats an 800 euro saving.
all added up, that is 2700 per year saved in running costs, or ~52 euro a week.

Your PCP weekly repayments alone cost that,and in the end you'll still need to take out new finance to keep the car, or upgrade and start the whole dance again. There is also a gamble here in hoping the value of the car ends up being more than the GMFV on your PCP deal. Also - make sure an factor in the cost of delivery on the new cars - could easily be 1500.

You can run all the figures yourself, but certainly any calculations I have ever done when comparing the cost of new car ownership against replacing my old / 1.8l petrol car have told me that buying a new car costs considerably more, even with maintenance costs, insurance costs and motor tax being higher.

Spending 15000+ euro is a big deal. The sensible thing to do is to make a spreadsheet with all the realistic costs associated with running your current car for 3 years, and all the costs associated changing to a new one. I'm certain you'll find that changing will cost you more, the question is how much will it cost you for the luxury of driving that new car.

reni10

Amara Bewildered Minicam wrote: »

Spending 15000+ euro is a big deal. The sensible thing to do is to make a spreadsheet with all the realistic costs associated with running your current car for 3 years, and all the costs associated changing to a new one. I'm certain you'll find that changing will cost you more, the question is how much will it cost you for the luxury of driving that new car.

I have already completed this exercise and have calculated the figures and it will cost be about €25 per week extra to trade up to a new smaller car with warranty on a PCP plan so to me that is acceptable.

wild turkey wrote: »

I looked at the Honda Jazz this evening and was very impressed . As spacious as the note, very stylish and very high spec for the entry model, air con, cruise control, bluetooth, etc .
It would work out cheaper than the sports model note, the only major difference would be the lack of alloys.
€3000 guaranteed trade in
In what we've seen so far it's our favourite, ( Corsa , Ix20, note , Ibiza , Dacia , Clio ) Im hoping the figures work out on this one .

Is that a €3000 scrappage scheme on the Jazz or was it just a deal you struck with your specific dealer?

If they do the scrappage then the Jazz is another one to add to my list for sure!

wild turkey

Yes its a scrappage scheme ,
The figures came back over budget for us but its definitely worth a look

Seat are doing a black friday deal of free servicing and free metallic paint tomorrow but if your looking at the ibiza its very small inside compared to others .

Nissan Airside are also doing black friday offers , dont know whats on offer though .