21st Nov has arrived,TPD regulations on all eliquid in Europe

youdipstick

Vendors are only allowed to sell 10ml bottles now or they could be shut down...
Heard this on Youtube...

Next regulation is May 2017 when all vendors can only sell tanks with a 2ml eliquid capacity...

the evasion_kid

youdipstick wrote: »

Vendors are only allowed to sell 10ml bottles now or they could be shut down...
Heard this on Youtube...

Next regulation is May 2017 when all vendors can only sell tanks with a 2ml eliquid capacity...

What about what's already in stock?

magentis

Will this effect the purchase of nic from darkstar?

nuttyboy79

I got this from the IVVA rep. on Facebook it's about this post


I've just been sent this, along with the question "is this right?" Short answer is... not very.

For the industry, it is now an offence to manufacture and offer for sale, or import and offer for sale in Ireland, products which don't comply with the Irish statutory instrument which transposes the TPD.

Any existing non compliant products held in stock by retailers can be sold up until the end of the sell through period of may next year.

Always better to verify stuff you hear on YouTube before posting!

I can't post on boards so perhaps someone who can will pass this on?

badspealler

So am I to take it that we as consumers can no longer order 120 ml bottles of juice direct from retailers in the USA either?

This whole 10ml bottle size is utterly ridiculous. Extra packaging, extra weight, extra cost, extra inconveneince. We should start sending 2 of every 3 empty 10 ml bottles to the Dail - share the inconvenience with those who rammed it down our throats in the first place.

And when are the cigarette companies going to be forced to package each individual cancer stick in it's own leak-proof, child-proof, unbreakable box?

youdipstick

Me personally,if there in stock,just buy it,this new law seems to apply to vendors,has our Customs got the authority to stop large sized bottles,I don't know.
I'm only scratching around listening to reviewers on Youtube,they seem to know more of what's happening.
I don't do Facebook or Instagram,so maybe there's more info to find there...

tommy2bad

badspealler wrote: »

So am I to take it that we as consumers can no longer order 120 ml bottles of juice direct from retailers in the USA either?

This whole 10ml bottle size is utterly ridiculous. Extra packaging, extra weight, extra cost, extra inconveneince. We should start sending 2 of every 3 empty 10 ml bottles to the Dail - share the inconvenience with those who rammed it down our throats in the first place.

And when are the cigarette companies going to be forced to package each individual cancer stick in it's own leak-proof, child-proof, unbreakable box?

As I understand it, the tpd rules apply to importers and retailers only. They cover products for sale. What's allowed for personal use is different. That's covered by the current laws. Import what you want for personal use, subject to it being legal in Ireland and passes through customs.
Until next May vendors can sell any stock they have in stock, hope they stocked up!, after that full enforcement. 10 10ml, max 20mg and 2ml tanks, all bottles will have to carry warning labels covering a specified area in irish and or English.. Notified products only.

Hellrazer

Some of the shops have already told me that "off the record" you`ll be able to go in buy 3 10ml bottles and they`ll put it into a 30 ml bottle for you.
Likewise with any amount you want.

Theres always ways of bending the rules with these ridiculous TPDs.

You wont be able to buy a tank with more than 2 ml as a complete unit in any transaction but you can buy the "add on " bigger tank separately in a separate transaction.

Shows how ****ed up these European laws are.How much of the health care budget is going to be saved in the future with the amount of people giving up the evil smokes and switching to vaping??Its going to take a few years to wash through the system but I can guarantee that the figures will be huge with less people dying of lung cancer and other smoking related diseases.

The government should be doing everything they can to encourage vaping as an alternative to smoking not actively trying to completely regulate the f**k out of it.Shows that our law makers haven't a clue with whats actually going on with the public.
I know personally I would never have gotten off the cigarettes if it wasnt for the help on this forum and from ESI who advised on the best equipment to start with.

/Rant over

But realistically its not going to affect the ordinary vaper on the street.

Thecageyone

nuttyboy79 wrote: »

I got this from the IVVA rep. on Facebook it's about this post


I've just been sent this, along with the question "is this right?" Short answer is... not very.

For the industry, it is now an offence to manufacture and offer for sale, or import and offer for sale in Ireland, products which don't comply with the Irish statutory instrument which transposes the TPD.

Any existing non compliant products held in stock by retailers can be sold up until the end of the sell through period of may next year.

Always better to verify stuff you hear on YouTube before posting!

I can't post on boards so perhaps someone who can will pass this on?

I still have no idea what the "IVVA" actually do, or have done to date? Not a lot it seems, if the average vaper has barely heard of them. And why can't they post on boards?

Hellrazer

Thecageyone wrote: »

I still have no idea what the "IVVA" actually do, or have done to date? Not a lot it seems, if the average vaper has barely heard of them. And why can't they post on boards?

I agree.Its not that hard to create an account..unless the mods have an issue with them posting??

Either way Ive never seen them officially object to the TPD..of if they have I cant find it on their website.
At least the UK group(ECITA) lobbied the House of Lords on rejecting the TPD.

Our IVVA don't seem to have done anything similar.

youdipstick

Thecageyone wrote: »

I still have no idea what the "IVVA" actually do, or have done to date? Not a lot it seems, if the average vaper has barely heard of them. And why can't they post on boards?

I've never heard of the IVVA either,I didn't want to question it because I thought this geezer knows more than YT reviewers...

pugleon

Theres ways in buy stuff abroad without people knowing and bring it south. Wouldnt be worried... Ridiculous laws. Instead of actually trying to help people quit they lob nanny laws onto a very good method of getting off smokes. In the UK they actually give out starter packs for free with ecigs.... Sick of this Government

Thecageyone

I have 500ml of nicotine on the way with about 100ml here. I estimate between my partner and I vaping 3mg daily, with our habits, should last almost 2 year. I'll find ways to get more in that time. VG, PG and flavorings should be fine, for now at least.

tommy2bad

Hellrazer wrote: »

I agree.Its not that hard to create an account..unless the mods have an issue with them posting??

Either way Ive never seen them officially object to the TPD..of if they have I cant find it on their website.
At least the UK group(ECITA) lobbied the House of Lords on rejecting the TPD.

Our IVVA don't seem to have done anything similar.

The rules of boards may prevent the IVVA from posting. It's an industry group and as such may be considered vendors.
Their seems to be a lack of understanding of what IVVA actually do. They represent the independent vape vendors of Ireland. Clue is in the name! For a long time media would call Forrest Ireland if vaping came up, IVVA have changed this by and large, now they are the ones representing vaping, both the customers and vendors.
They have not called on the government to reject the TPP because unlike the UK, Ireland is not leaving the EU. We are stuck with it. They have however lobbied to get the easiest possible interpretation of the regulations.
Most of IVVA's work is not as public as we would like but it does matter. Meeting the regulators, not just the politicians but the people working in the department's implementing the regs. They also lobby on advertising rules, smoking bans including vaping and generally promoting the interests of vapers.
Don't underestimate the value of behind the seems work, it's the work that actually achieves results.
It would be wonderfully to have a separate consumer organisation representing the users without connection to industry but as the guy who put his head above the parapet on this, I can tell you for all the calls to have one, the number of people willing to actually support it .....well let's just say far less than would like it to just happen.
I'm not condemning anyone for this. Voluntary work while trying to live at the same time is not easy. The point is we do have the IVVA and they do a lot of effective work. We should be thankfully for that.

nuttyboy79

tommy2bad wrote: »

The rules of boards may prevent the IVVA from posting. It's an industry group and as such may be considered vendors.
Their seems to be a lack of understanding of what IVVA actually do. They represent the independent vape vendors of Ireland. Clue is in the name! For a long time media would call Forrest Ireland if vaping came up, IVVA have changed this by and large, now they are the ones representing vaping, both the customers and vendors.
They have not called on the government to reject the TPP because unlike the UK, Ireland is not leaving the EU. We are stuck with it. They have however lobbied to get the easiest possible interpretation of the regulations.
Most of IVVA's work is not as public as we would like but it does matter. Meeting the regulators, not just the politicians but the people working in the department's implementing the regs. They also lobby on advertising rules, smoking bans including vaping and generally promoting the interests of vapers.
Don't underestimate the value of behind the seems work, it's the work that actually achieves results.
It would be wonderfully to have a separate consumer organisation representing the users without connection to industry but as the guy who put his head above the parapet on this, I can tell you for all the calls to have one, the number of people willing to actually support it .....well let's just say far less than would like it to just happen.
I'm not condemning anyone for this. Voluntary work while trying to live at the same time is not easy. The point is we do have the IVVA and they do a lot of effective work. We should be thankfully for that.

That's exactly what I was thinking about posting over the last few days but Tommy put it better then I could have.

Thecageyone

tommy2bad wrote: »

The rules of boards may prevent the IVVA from posting. It's an industry group and as such may be considered vendors.
Their seems to be a lack of understanding of what IVVA actually do. They represent the independent vape vendors of Ireland. Clue is in the name! For a long time media would call Forrest Ireland if vaping came up, IVVA have changed this by and large, now they are the ones representing vaping, both the customers and vendors.
They have not called on the government to reject the TPP because unlike the UK, Ireland is not leaving the EU. We are stuck with it. They have however lobbied to get the easiest possible interpretation of the regulations.
Most of IVVA's work is not as public as we would like but it does matter. Meeting the regulators, not just the politicians but the people working in the department's implementing the regs. They also lobby on advertising rules, smoking bans including vaping and generally promoting the interests of vapers.
Don't underestimate the value of behind the seems work, it's the work that actually achieves results.
It would be wonderfully to have a separate consumer organisation representing the users without connection to industry but as the guy who put his head above the parapet on this, I can tell you for all the calls to have one, the number of people willing to actually support it .....well let's just say far less than would like it to just happen.
I'm not condemning anyone for this. Voluntary work while trying to live at the same time is not easy. The point is we do have the IVVA and they do a lot of effective work. We should be thankfully for that.

Thankful for what?? this thread just shows how little anyone knows about them, and yet you say they represent us? The only time I heard of them was when I saw they were blasting vendors for not signing up. And that signing up had a cost afaik. I see a total of 9 vendors under their umbrella, 4 of which I have never heard of. I have yet to hear any actual benefit to this ... IVVA ...

You're not condemning anyone? great, because there is zero reason to. If anything, this IVVA should be making their 'work' if any, public, let us, the vapers, know what exactly they are in place for, and they might just get some support. Otherwise, as is, we just see them as a makey-up bunch of vendors and unknowns who have yet to actually do anything significant

jonski

Thecageyone wrote:

Thankful for what?? this thread just shows how little anyone knows about them, and yet you say they represent us? ...

They don't represent us, they represent the Vendors .

tommy2bad

jonski wrote: »

They don't represent us, they represent the Vendors .

Independent vendors specifically. Their's also Vape Business Ireland who represent the tobacco co's product vendors.
I notice Hale are listed as members, didn't know they had tobacco connections, of course, it's not a requirement but throwing your lot in with them shows ambition if slightly Machiavellian in nature.
http://vapebusinessireland.ie/

Thecageyone

jonski wrote: »

They don't represent us, they represent the Vendors .

9 vendors ... some of the other vendors hadn't heard of them either when I asked in their shops were they part of it. That's honest truth.

jonski

Thecageyone wrote: »

9 vendors ... some of the other vendors hadn't heard of them either when I asked in their shops were they part of it. That's honest truth.

I know of vendors who will tell you they haven't heard of it because they don't want to join it due to some of it's rules .

Thecageyone

jonski wrote: »

I know of vendors who will tell you they haven't heard of it because they don't want to join it due to some of it's rules .

Either way, the fact they don't represent the common vaper begs the question ... why are we even talking about them here? Seems they aren't even allowed to.

jonski

Thecageyone wrote: »

Either way, the fact they don't represent the common vaper begs the question ... why are we even talking about them here? Seems they aren't even allowed to.

I suppose because while they are not there to represent us they end up doing so indirectly . But at the end of the day they will fight for whatever is best for the vendors and that won't necessarily be best for the consumer . 30 ml bottles of liquid for €12 is better for us than 3 x 10 ml @ €5 but the vendor will still be able to make the margin .

youdipstick

The rant starts at 14 mins in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zVWarXxGc

RonyPonyBah

youdipstick wrote: »

The rant starts at 14 mins in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zVWarXxGc

He makes my blood boil...... on so many different levels

youdipstick

RonyPonyBah wrote: »

He makes my blood boil...... on so many different levels

Yeah,I know,there's a few reviewers that I can't stand,VapnFagan & Heathen,I cringe when I hear their voices...:D:D

RonyPonyBah

youdipstick wrote: »

Yeah,I know,there's a few reviewers that I can't stand,VapnFagan & Heathen,I cringe when I hear their voices...:D:D

Hey, this is VapnFagan, here's a 2.5 hour boring no personality in-depth review on this product I just got in the mail 10 minutes ago.

Heathen - Slainté :mad::mad:

was.deevey

badspealler wrote: »

So am I to take it that we as consumers can no longer order 120 ml bottles of juice direct from retailers in the USA either?

This whole 10ml bottle size is utterly ridiculous.  Extra packaging, extra weight, extra cost, extra inconveneince.  We should start sending 2 of every 3 empty 10 ml bottles to the Dail - share the inconvenience with those who rammed it down our throats in the first place.  

And when are the cigarette companies going to be forced to package each individual cancer stick in it's own leak-proof, child-proof, unbreakable box?

FFS - I go through approximately 30-40ml per day currently ! 
Whats the stipulation is on Zero Nicotine Juice ?

leche solara

Why is vaping even included in a Tobacco Products Directive? Vaping is not a tobacco product. People choose to vape to get away from tobacco products. This is nannyism taken to the extreme. Taxing will be the next step. In Portugal juice has been taxed and the price tripled during the summer. Seems they are under orders from the Troika to raise taxes (sound familiar?) and hiked the price of normal ciggies, but slaughtered vaping. 10ml juice now €10 a bottle (was about €3). Many vapers have returned to smoking roll-ups. Even customs there are alert to juices being imported by post and are levying tax before delivery

was.deevey

I can understand additional taxes on Juice with Nicotine (to a point) but levying the same regulations on Non-Nicotine Juice is akin to taxing your coke at the same rate as the Jack Daniels is it not ?

tommy2bad

The EU are currently running a public consultation on taxing vaping products. Their justification for this duty imposition is once again harmonisation. Some member states have already imposed a tax (and in Italy's case had to reduced it!) others have no specific tax category for vaping products. This impedes the free movement of goods and services. Same old, same old! It's a cash grab.

http://www.vapingpost.com/2016/03/15/eu-towards-a-tax-increase-on-vaping-products/

It may also be the thin end of a wedge to standardise all taxation across member states, yes Ireland they are looking at your corporation tax.

Consultation ends in Feb next year and I will post a link to it as it nears. We need to think about this as just jumping up and down shouting won't do any good. we will need to contact MEP's and TD's as well as reply to the consultation. Note the consultation is worded with the assumption that the tax is inevitable and only the percentage is up for debate. I'm suggesting zero as this will be a duty rate on top of VAT.
BTW this will apply to all products, not just juice, that have been classed under the TPD. All tobacco products, vaping products as defined by article 20 and any new or novel products such as gums lozenges and heat not burn products.

tommy2bad

leche solara wrote: »

Why is vaping even included in a Tobacco Products Directive? Vaping is not a tobacco product. People choose to vape to get away from tobacco products. This is nannyism taken to the extreme. Taxing will be the next step. In Portugal juice has been taxed and the price tripled during the summer. Seems they are under orders from the Troika to raise taxes (sound familiar?) and hiked the price of normal ciggies, but slaughtered vaping. 10ml juice now €10 a bottle (was about €3). Many vapers have returned to smoking roll-ups. Even customs there are alert to juices being imported by post and are levying tax before delivery

I was holidaying in Portugal this year and the trick adopted by vendors there is a 5 or 10ml bottle of nic which they add to a 0nic juice. Tax only applies to nicotine containing juice. Has to be said I only saw one vendor in the whole of the Algarve so vaping is hardly huge. hard to see how they make any money from this tax as the cost of admin must be more than it raises.