Advice - safety and visibility.

Your Face

I was hit by a car a few weeks ago. No injuries but an unpleasant experience. It was during the day, I always have my hi-vis on and I had my lights on.
He was trying to join traffic and just drove into me. He said after he didn't see me.

Yesterday, a HGV came very close whilst over-taking me and later on a bus was driving aggressively behind me and sounding the horn.
Nearer home, a van cut across the road without slowing down right in front of me.

Anyway, I'm looking for advice on how to increase my personal safety on the roads.
I always wear the hi-vis, if its anyways dim , I'll turn on my lights. I have reflectors in the front and back and on the spokes.
Its there anything else I can do?
Thanks.

mrcheez

Your Face wrote: »

I was hit by a car a few weeks ago. No injuries but an unpleasant experience. It was during the day, I always have my hi-vis on and I had my lights on.
He was trying to join traffic and just drove into me. He said after he didn't see me.

Yesterday, a HGV came very close whilst over-taking me and later on a bus was driving aggressively behind me and sounding the horn.
Nearer home, a van cut across the road without slowing down right in front of me.

Anyway, I'm looking for advice on how to increase my personal safety on the roads.
I always wear the hi-vis, if its anyways dim , I'll turn on my lights. I have reflectors in the front and back and on the spokes.
Its there anything else I can do?
Thanks.

My recommendation is to get excessively bright lights like the CREE 12,000 lumens.

It really is like Moses parting the oceans as you cycle on a busy road with cars moving out of the way simply to avoid the bright flashing.

or even these... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30000LM-1x-Cree-XML-T6-LED-Mountain-Bike-Cycling-Cycle-Light-6x-18650-Waterproof-/201661975353?var=&hash=item2ef3fd8b39:m:muFNJLhpxrUhhEXx0ZRJ1Gw

ford2600

Your Face wrote: »

I was hit by a car a few weeks ago. No injuries but an unpleasant experience. It was during the day, I always have my hi-vis on and I had my lights on.
He was trying to join traffic and just drove into me. He said after he didn't see me.

Yesterday, a HGV came very close whilst over-taking me and later on a bus was driving aggressively behind me and sounding the horn.
Nearer home, a van cut across the road without slowing down right in front of me.

Anyway, I'm looking for advice on how to increase my personal safety on the roads.
I always wear the hi-vis, if its anyways dim , I'll turn on my lights. I have reflectors in the front and back and on the spokes.
Its there anything else I can do?
Thanks.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057643386

Read the document attached.

The only thing you can control is what you do, but in terms of perception, anticipation, position etc you can do quite a bit.

He probably didn't see you

Lumen

mrcheez wrote: »

My recommendation is to get excessively bright lights like the CREE 12,000 lumens.

It really is like Moses parting the oceans as you cycle on a busy road with cars moving out of the way simply to avoid the bright flashing.

or even these... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30000LM-1x-Cree-XML-T6-LED-Mountain-Bike-Cycling-Cycle-Light-6x-18650-Waterproof-/201661975353?var=&hash=item2ef3fd8b39:m:muFNJLhpxrUhhEXx0ZRJ1Gw

That light is not intended for road use. Using a flashing, floody 12,000 lumen light is incredibly irresponsible.

Carawaystick

Cycle in the middle of a lane, so
Drivers looking for cars see you quicker than if yer at the left side .
People overtaking you have to make a conscious decision to overtake, rather than just squeeze by.

If people coming from behind me start blowing the horn, I just sit up, slow down and give a big smiling wave to them.

tomasrojo

When they say they didn't see you, it doesn't mean you blended into the background. It really is down to them not paying attention, or just not caring about your safety as much as they care about getting through a gap, through a red light, whatever.

Cyclecraft is a book with a lot of advice on how to improve your safety and have a less stressful like through optimising your own behaviour and anticipating the behaviour of others.

If I were to single out scenarios, I'd say show especial care going through yellow boxes or any other clear bit of road where cars are stationary around the clear bit of road. Cars will traverse the clear bit of road without checking, because the the traffic that concerns them -- the heavy, fast-moving traffic -- is stationary. And don't go up the side of HGVs and buses at junctions.

tomasrojo

I have a soft copy of an old Galway Cycling Campaign leaflet based on Cyclecraft. PM if you want a copy.

magicbastarder

i'd love if every time a motorist used the 'i didn't see them' excuse to a garda, that their licence was temporarily revoked until they passed an eye test. might make people be a bit more observant.

Pinch Flat

Both times I've been knocked off my bike, I had extremely bright strobes back and front and hi-vis bag cover / clothing. My own advice is to assume you haven't been seen.

What were the circumstances of you being knocked down? Cars hooking left were the culprits in both my mishaps. I now anticipate junctions better - stay out, cycle defensively and prevent someone hooking in front of me. You'll get familiar with the pinch points / danger spots on your commute and learn to anticipate actions of others.

If a bus or HGV is tailgating you and blaring their horn, there's not much you can do - I would suggest holding your line. Anyone who's that ignorant on the road is going to blast by you without much due regard. Look after No. 1 always.

Lumen

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Both times I've been knocked off my bike, I had extremely bright strobes back and front

Contributory negligence?

Alek

I was cycling in Phoenix Park in the dark the other day. Going slowly with some rented bikes ahead of me, and suddenly boom, a huge ball of light appeared in front of us. No one seemed to know what it is or how to react, in the effect on of the guys in front of me almost went straight into the cyclist coming from the other direction, sporting the said 12000 lumen cree on the handlebars.

If you have it, dont use it on the road, and god forbid in the max flashing mode when its wet. It fries brains.

Pinch Flat

Lumen wrote: »

Contributory negligence?

Ok, so if someone cuts in front of me without warning and hits me, mea culpa.

Would this apply if I was in a car - someone overtakes, then cuts suddenly and without warning in front of me to take a left?

Lumen

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Would this apply if I was in a car - someone overtakes, then cuts suddenly and without warning in front of me to take a left?

Does the hypothetical car have "extremely bright strobes back and front" fitted?

Pinch Flat

Lumen wrote: »

Does the hypothetical car have "extremely bright strobes back and front" fitted?

Maybe you could flesh out how it would be considered contributory negligence in the circumstances I described?

Lumen

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Maybe you could flesh out how it would be considered contributory negligence in the circumstances I described?

If someone drives into you because they're blinded by your strobes then they are primarily responsible (because being blinded e.g. by low winter sun isn't a defence) but you may be found to have contributed to that accident through your negligent use of stupid flashy lights.

Lumen

@OP: if you want to increase your visibility then work on your road position (active safety) and consider putting something visible on a moving part of your body e.g. ankles (passive safety). The human eye/brain has evolved to pick out movement.

FWIW I don't wear hi-vis and have a relatively dim rear flasher and haven't ever been driven into by a motor vehicle, and I'm not the only one. So either you're unlucky or your road position needs work.

Pinch Flat

Lumen wrote: »

If someone drives into you because they're blinded by your strobes

Both drivers said they hadn't seen me, not that they'd been blinded by my strobes.

Lumen wrote: »

but you may be found to have contributed to that accident through your negligent use of stupid flashy lights.

So making yourself visible with lights that are perfectly legal is negligent? Any links to a similar case? I'd be genuinely interested to read.

"Cyclists are now permitted to use LED lights in either continuous or flashing modes. Now “‘lit’ means the emission of a continuous light or a light that flashes not less than 60 times in each minute”. Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations (SI No. 487 of 2009). (http://www.dublincycling.ie/cycling/key-issues-concern-cyclists-irish-road-traffic-law-rtl)

Lumen

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Both drivers said they hadn't seen me, not that they'd been blinded by my strobes.

So making yourself visible with lights that are perfectly legal is negligent?

The fact that the law hasn't yet caught up with LED light development is not relevant to the issue of negligence.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Any links to a similar case? I'd be genuinely interested to read.

No, I'm basing this on the common/obvious interpretation of "negligence" and my experience of being blinded whilst cycling by idiots on bicycles using strobe lights.

I have no issues with low-speed low-power flashing lights.

Lumen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNatrbmikC4

From 17 seconds in.

Fian

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd love if every time a motorist used the 'i didn't see them' excuse to a garda, that their licence was temporarily revoked until they passed an eye test. might make people be a bit more observant.

But it is not an eye problem, it is a cognitive problem. It is a case of "thinking fast" rather than "thinking slow" - basically it is a case of being on autopilot rather than actively concentrating - which is the state all our brains spend 90% (ish) of our time in. People who are pulling out are looking for other cars and just essentially fail to register cyclists even if they see them. No malice or disregard for cyclists safety involve, just hardwired cognitive short cuts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

seamus

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd love if every time a motorist used the 'i didn't see them' excuse to a garda, that their licence was temporarily revoked until they passed an eye test. might make people be a bit more observant.

Gardai in fact prefer to hear that someone knew what they did was wrong but did it anyway, than plead ignorance. If someone doesn't even know what they did wrong, that's a whole lot scarier.

Back as a young teenager, a group of us blasted through a red light in front of a Garda car, who promptly caught up and stopped us. He asked us what colour the light was, we all replied "red", except one guy who thought he'd get in less trouble by answering, "I don't know, I didn't see it".

The Garda balled him alone out of it for not paying attention before sending us on our way.

ED E

Have to say I for one almost prefer dusk. On the morning commute at 8.30AM its constant near passes, in the evening with lights on (they arent so bright in daylight) its very very rare to have a close pass and most give a huge berth where possible. Its massively noticeable.

Both my lights are smaller Crees, red rear is brighter than a cars running light but dimmer than its brake light. Front is more like the newer Xeon bulbs you see in BMWs etc, pointed down and flashing. It illuminates my hands, top third of my wheel and a good 10m ahead of me. Street signs 50m ahead blink dimly. Often see peds look around to see what it is.


Recently spotted others with offroad lights in the suburbs, there's a big difference between "please notice me" and "say goodbye to your retinas". Please don't be the latter, just endears more driver hate.

Manchegan

Lumen wrote: »

If someone drives into you because they're blinded by your strobes then they are primarily responsible (because being blinded e.g. by low winter sun isn't a defence) but you may be found to have contributed to that accident through your negligent use of stupid flashy lights.

A recent court case in Mayo has shown that this is not true in effect.

http://www.mayonews.ie/news/28029-fatal-crash-driver-says-she-was-blinded-by-sun

http://www.mayonews.ie/news/28053-westport-woman-found-not-guilty-of-careless-driving-causing-death

Lumen

Manchegan wrote: »

A recent court case in Mayo has shown that this is not true in effect.

IANAL, but I think it depends on whether it's a civil or criminal case. I think contributory negligence is a civil/tort thing, whereas this was a criminal case; she could be found liable in a civil case.

coolbeans

ford2600 wrote: »

Your Face wrote: »

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He probably didn't see you

In my experience, it's not that they don't see you, it's that they don't bother fuggin looking. Adjust road position to force them to see you.

AndrewJRenko

How do these super-bright bike lights compare to the average car headlight, in terms of lumens or power or brightness or whatever?

Lumen

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do these super-bright bike lights compare to the average car headlight, in terms of lumens or power or brightness or whatever?

Depends on the design.

Lumens is light output. Lux is illumination at the target. What you want is maximum lux on the road surface and minimum lux spilling onto the scenery or into people's eyes.

The German StVZO test for car/motorbike headlights allows only 1.0 lux at 3.4° above the cutoff at 25m. This equates to about 6.25 lux at 10m. The StVZO test for bicycle lights has a limit of 2 lux @ 10m 3.4° above the cutoff.

A good StVZO-compliant bicycle light (e.g. B&M IQ-X) can put out 100 lux @ 10m on the road whilst meeting the <2 lux over-the-cutoff requirement.

That illumination drop-off from 100 lux to < 2lux is hard to achieve.

The problem with poorly designed lights is that because they don't have a cut-off lens design you have to choose between not seeing where you're going (light pointed down) and oncoming traffic not seeing where they're going (light pointed up). There is no happy medium because there's too much upwards spill from the light.

ED E

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do these super-bright bike lights compare to the average car headlight, in terms of lumens or power or brightness or whatever?

It totally depends on the light, there's a huge range. The very strong ones could be 2x a traditional headlight if tightly focused.

ted1

Your Face wrote: »

I was hit by a car a few weeks ago. No injuries but an unpleasant experience. It was during the day, I always have my hi-vis on and I had my lights on.
He was trying to join traffic and just drove into me. He said after he didn't see me.

Yesterday, a HGV came very close whilst over-taking me and later on a bus was driving aggressively behind me and sounding the horn.
Nearer home, a van cut across the road without slowing down right in front of me.

Anyway, I'm looking for advice on how to increase my personal safety on the roads.
I always wear the hi-vis, if its anyways dim , I'll turn on my lights. I have reflectors in the front and back and on the spokes.
Its there anything else I can do?
Thanks.

Sounds like your road position may be an issue, you need to own the road. 3 incidents so close together are a red flag.

ted1

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do these super-bright bike lights compare to the average car headlight, in terms of lumens or power or brightness or whatever?

Cars go through NCTs where the headlights are tested to ensure that there ficus and alligenment is such that they don't blind other road users

ford2600

Manchegan wrote: »

A recent court case in Mayo has shown that this is not true in effect.

http://www.mayonews.ie/news/28029-fatal-crash-driver-says-she-was-blinded-by-sun

http://www.mayonews.ie/news/28053-westport-woman-found-not-guilty-of-careless-driving-causing-death

Criminal case.

BTW what a horrible decision

The man is dead because driver continued to drive while blinded; imagine if if identical accident happened at night due to light failure yet continued to drive.

The jury couldn't agree on verdict probably because of the "it could have been me" thought.

Also sun altitude was 12 degrees at time of accident, which isn't that low. I drove in line with a 6 degree sun today without issue.