Can you sign contracts without solicitor?

sozbox

Here's the situation

Friend sale agreed on a receiver sale, engineer, bank valuation done with no issues.

Receiver have said the buyer solicitor is dragging his heels by asking for more documents around when he council is taking the estate in charge.

Receiver saying they will pull the sale unless they receive signed contracts in the next week or so.

Can he sign without the solicitor ok? If the bank take issue with the council not having charge could they stop the funds?

I've never come across anything like this before, if they go back to the market it will take just as long for them to sell to someone new right?

Uriel.

sozbox wrote: »

Here's the situation

Friend sale agreed on a receiver sale, engineer, bank valuation done with no issues.

Receiver have said the buyer solicitor is dragging his heels by asking for more documents around when he council is taking the estate in charge.

Receiver saying they will pull the sale unless they receive signed contracts in the next week or so.

Can he sign without the solicitor ok? If the bank take issue with the council not having charge could they stop the funds?

I've never come across anything like this before, if they go back to the market it will take just as long for them to sell to someone new right?

Almost everyone would strongly advise against it.

Can your friend not talk to his solicitor and find out what the story is. In most cases the "dragging the feet" is because the solicitor is looking after your best interests. Obviously they can be slow if they've other work on or are just not great solicitors.

But your friend should discuss with his solicitor and find out what's happening and discuss the threat from the receiver. He's probably not really and seriously pulling the plug but is trying to force movement.

Tell your friend to keep his pen away from the contracts, which his solicitor surely has in their possession anyway.

Don't forget there's significant legal work pre and post contract as well

Edit: you could just tell the receiver to get his solicitor to answer the questions and provide the requested documents and stop messing around

The bank won't release mortgage monies until the solicitor certifies everything is in order. He won't do that that if it's not,

sozbox

Uriel. wrote: »

The bank won't release mortgage monies until the solicitor certifies everything is in order. He won't do that that if it's not,

That would kind of settle it so.

He's speaking to him tomorrow but I found it very odd that the receiver would issue a threat like that, it went sale agreed 4 weeks ago.

Sleeper12

Sounds like you have a great solicitor looking out for your best interests.

the_syco

sozbox wrote: »

Receiver have said the buyer solicitor is dragging his heels by asking for more documents around when he council is taking the estate in charge.

Receiver saying they will pull the sale unless they receive signed contracts in the next week or so.

Sounds like the seller knows there's something wrong with the place, and trying to get rid of without your mate going to his solicitor.

sozbox

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like the seller knows there's something wrong with the place, and trying to get rid of without your mate going to his solicitor.

That's my thinking too. But the engineer found nothing and other houses in the estate have sold without issue so I'm not so sure.

Solicitors can be like this. They are protecting you but also themselves.

You should meet your solicitor and find out exactly what is the issue and what the implications of it are. Also find out if this is a general problem for the estate or just your solicitor being overly cautious.

Once you have this information you can decide if you want to sign and if it is an issue which would cause the solicitor to refuse to certify title.

Some issues solicitors hestiate over are trifling and you can overrule them (ie assume any risk yourself). For example, i know of a case where the solicitor blocked a sale for months because the planning was not in order. When pinned down it was because disabled access was not constructed. As a result of this advice the purchaser went back to vendor and insisted they build a concrete ramp before the sale closed. Vendor almost pulled out because they regarded this as messing. Eventually it was done and sale closed. Purchaser now has ugly concrete ramp at the front of the house that has never been used and which he will some day pay somebody good money to remove...

tempnam

Receiver sales can be funny. Generally it's an accountant somewhere removed from the property with no understanding of practical property issues and who is under pressure to get the sale closed asap so they can remit funds to the instructing bank/institution.

They will usually try to sell a property "as seen" and won't want to go though the time and effort of producing various documents required by a purchaser's solicitor. Usually because they have limited information on the properties they are selling.

Peregrinus

sozbox wrote: »

Here's the situation

Friend sale agreed on a receiver sale, engineer, bank valuation done with no issues.

Receiver have said the buyer solicitor is dragging his heels by asking for more documents around when he council is taking the estate in charge.

Receiver saying they will pull the sale unless they receive signed contracts in the next week or so.

Can he sign without the solicitor ok? . . . .

There's absolutely no point in paying a solicitor if you're not going to take his advice; you might as well just burn your banknotes instead, for all the value you get. If the solicitor thinks there are outstanding queries that need to be answered, then talk to the solicitor and find out how important they are, what are the risks, etc. If, after that, you find his advice unacceptable, let him go and find a solicitor you trust.

Indeed, if you act against his advice and sign a contract that he has advised you not to sign, he'll probably indicate that he no longer wishes to act for you, and you'll have to find another solicitor anyway. Solicitors are very, very uncomfortable acting for clients who have no confidence in them.

Either way, tell your friend that he should not take advice from the receiver. The receiver has a financial interest here; he is trying to sell the property. He is not doing this for your friend's benefit.

4ensic15

The title offered by many receivers is not good enough to allow a purchaser to get a mortgage. It would be extremely unwise to sign a contract without being sure of funds. Only a solicitor can say whether any title offered is good enough.

Marcusm

sozbox wrote: »

Here's the situation

Friend sale agreed on a receiver sale, engineer, bank valuation done with no issues.

Receiver have said the buyer solicitor is dragging his heels by asking for more documents around when he council is taking the estate in charge.

Receiver saying they will pull the sale unless they receive signed contracts in the next week or so.

Can he sign without the solicitor ok? If the bank take issue with the council not having charge could they stop the funds?

I've never come across anything like this before, if they go back to the market it will take just as long for them to sell to someone new right?

Your friend's views on the matter are effectively irrelevant as he is not using his own money to purchase the house. The solicitor works for both your friend and the lender/mortgage bank. The solicitor's task for the bank is to ensure that what is bought i capable of being sold (good marketable title) in the event that your friend fails to make the mortgage payments. Understanding the means for funding access to the house - taking the estate in charge by the council - is an important part of this and, unless the receiver is needlessly delaying, seems like it was of less importance to the original lender - remember that the receiver is in place because someone else did not pay their debts.

The receiver cannot give what he hasn't got; if the receiver is selling a single house in a long finished estate which has not been taken in charge the solicitor is eventually going to have to make a vaue judgement on the point. If, however, the receiver is selling on the estate as a whole and hasn't sorted out this point then more fool him as he's simply putting up a barrier to selling the house.

the_syco

sozbox wrote: »

That's my thinking too. But the engineer found nothing and other houses in the estate have sold without issue so I'm not so sure.

The engineer will only find physical things. Did anyone live in the house before your friend?

newacc2015

The whole receiver industry is the west wild here. There is no real regulation of it. Someone with no qualifications or experience could be a receiver tomorrow.

The receivers sole purpose is to look after the interest of the owner of the house. There are tons of cases in the courts where that was not the case. The receiver should aim to get the highest price possible for the house, which IMO he is possibly not trying to do at the moment.

If I were your friend, I would get them to ask neighbours for the details of the owner of the property and explain what the receiver who is 'supposed to act in their interests' and getting very well paid to do so, is attempting to do. I dont think it would a be stretch to assume that the receiver is trying to get your friends sale to fall through as he has another buyer lined up.

If your friend signs without a solicitor, you might end up with a dirty deed and end up paying thousands to fix it. There is the whole issue of them paying stamp duty, ensuring LPT was paid by the seller, lodging docs with land register, the charge of the former buyer is removed etc.

athtrasna

If the solicitor has concerns about the development being taken in charge there's nothing the vendor can do to assuage them.

The solicitor is right to be concerned if the council has no plans to take the roads and water system in charge. Could save your friends a fortune in the long term.

athtrasna

athtrasna wrote: »

The solicitor is right to be concerned if the council has no plans to take the roads and water system in charge. Could save your friends a fortune in the long term.

Thats certainly true.

But thats also the kind of issue where the purchaser can say to the solicitor '"I've heard your advice and I want to go ahead anyway" and the deal will proceed.

sozbox

House is being sold by NAMA so not a incentive off,half the estate is for sale.

Seems to have been a misunderstanding along the line somewhere, the solicitors concerns about the estate not being taken into charge seem to have been addressed by the receiver providing a letter from the council around their intentions to take it into charge shortly.

Not sure but I sense it was more a clash of personalitities than anything else. Seems to be back on track!