Stopped by Gardaí with FCN

sjb25

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I've lived in the area for three years

And you never in 3 years noticed the sign or the big massive white arrow on the road

Cmon OP nobody likes getting fined or get caught making a mistake but you did think you should just pay the fine but if you want to appeal and u believe you are right you work away fair play

Isambard

bang to rights OP, not even worth fetching the popcorn, thread going nowhere

05eaftqbrs9jlh

jonnycivic wrote: »

Sorry but you are in the area a number of years and your telling me that not once in that 3 year period you did not see this sign that is as clear as day. OP you really are true to your name on this occassion.

In this link the sign is clearly visable: https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8876539,-8.4555205,3a,75y,148.19h,74.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEjGV_ArDboilifecoTMBAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And if you look on the right hand side you will notice that there is 5 houses in between the sign and that point which is well beyond enough time to react to the sign.

The actual issue your having is the fact you were caught tbh. As I already pointed out, your a driver and its your responsibility to familiarise yourself with the roads you use and in 3 years you never once took note of a very important sign.

Exactly, and once when I was waiting for another car to turn right at that junction a lorry driver behind us started beeping furiously, which confused me because I noticed that there was no "No Right Turn" sign visible anywhere around the junction (because it's five houses back from the fricking light and there's none on the right-hand traffic light.

It's a poorly-marked junction and an arrow light alone is not sufficient to mark that you cannot turn right, especially instances like mine where there is poor visibility because of intense sunlight. If there had been an arrow sign on the traffic light I might have stood some chance, but I'm appealing it because even as a regular user of that road I could not find a "no right turn sign" and I've actually looked.

I was as surprised as anyone to be pulled over and explained my position to the Garda. I'm glad to know that it's an illegal turn now but I'm still going to appeal the FCN because it was not apparent enough that what I was doing was not allowed. It should be more clearly marked on the road and that is definitely a fact.

Somebody saying that I'll have to pay a higher fine if I appeal it, I'm pretty sure that's only if you don't manage to pay the fine within 25 days and I intend to correspond with them every day until it's sorted. I don't want the point on my licence because the two I got several years ago for speeding are gone in a few months.

HanaleiJ5N

jonnycivic wrote: »

Who said the OP is unfamiliar with the area? His location is cork and this happened in Cork so he could know the area very well and this be along a route he take plenty of times.

Read the post again, I did not say the OP was unfamiliar with the area.

Stheno

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

Exactly, and once when I was waiting for another car to turn right at that junction a lorry driver behind us started beeping furiously, which confused me because I noticed that there was no "No Right Turn" sign visible anywhere around the junction (because it's five houses back from the fricking light and there's none on the right-hand traffic light.

It's a poorly-marked junction and an arrow light alone is not sufficient to mark that you cannot turn right, especially instances like mine where there is poor visibility because of intense sunlight. If there had been an arrow sign on the traffic light I might have stood some chance, but I'm appealing it because even as a regular user of that road I could not find a "no right turn sign" and I've actually looked.

I was as surprised as anyone to be pulled over and explained my position to the Garda. I'm glad to know that it's an illegal turn now but I'm still going to appeal the FCN because it was not apparent enough that what I was doing was not allowed. It should be more clearly marked on the road and that is definitely a fact.

Somebody saying that I'll have to pay a higher fine if I appeal it, I'm pretty sure that's only if you don't manage to pay the fine within 25 days and I intend to correspond with them every day until it's sorted. I don't want the point on my licence because the two I got several years ago for speeding are gone in a few months.

The sign looks to be a couple of metres before the light?

Poorly marked? There's the sign the straight ahead light and the arrow on the road? What more do you want?

degsie

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

an arrow light alone is not sufficient to mark that you cannot turn right

you may consider re-sitting the driving test

sjb25

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

. It should be more clearly marked on the road and that is definitely a fact .

This is your picture of that junction
I have never been in this area before but that big white arrow on the road alone tells me straight ahead only yes it's not freshly painted but you cannot say it's not clearly visible and it is also a legal road marking in the rules of the road that you contravened
But look you are right we are wrong go ahead and appeal best of luck to you

coolbeans

Stheno wrote: »

There's the sign the straight ahead light and the arrow on the road? QUOTE]

You haven't a hope OP. You weren't aware of your surrounding and disobeyed the light and the straight ahead arrow...and that's a fact too.

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

Exactly, and once when I was waiting for another car to turn right at that junction a lorry driver behind us started beeping furiously, which confused me because I noticed that there was no "No Right Turn" sign visible anywhere around the junction (because it's five houses back from the fricking light and there's none on the right-hand traffic light.

It's a poorly-marked junction and an arrow light alone is not sufficient to mark that you cannot turn right, especially instances like mine where there is poor visibility because of intense sunlight. If there had been an arrow sign on the traffic light I might have stood some chance, but I'm appealing it because even as a regular user of that road I could not find a "no right turn sign" and I've actually looked.

I was as surprised as anyone to be pulled over and explained my position to the Garda. I'm glad to know that it's an illegal turn now but I'm still going to appeal the FCN because it was not apparent enough that what I was doing was not allowed. It should be more clearly marked on the road and that is definitely a fact.

Somebody saying that I'll have to pay a higher fine if I appeal it, I'm pretty sure that's only if you don't manage to pay the fine within 25 days and I intend to correspond with them every day until it's sorted. I don't want the point on my licence because the two I got several years ago for speeding are gone in a few months.

No.... reread my post and look at the link I posted again, the picture is from 5 houses back and you can clearly see the sign up ahead (I never said the sign is 5 houses away from the lights because its right beside the dam things). You failed to take note of the signs so that ones completely on you. Appeal it but I would gladly put money on you taking double the points and fine.

Also just because there was glare today doesnt mean there is glare every day there so how many hundreds of times have you made that illegal turn thats as obvious as anything.

dolallyoh

I can sympathise with OP though.

This one is my current bug bear - complained the day it was finished but still there 2 years later.

https://goo.gl/maps/84gqYNznZWP2

If you come around that corner as the megane is doing you will find yourself going head first into a car if you aren't aware of the design in advance.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I love how definitively people are saying it won't win an appeal. If it was you getting the fine and point for something you genuinely did by mistake, I bet you would appeal it too. The Garda in the station I spoke to wasn't being sarcastic, he took a good look at my photos and listened to what I told him and said earnestly that he'd be interested to see how my appeal went.

The reason I'm appealing it is because it is objectively a poorly marked junction, and I say that as somebody who has LOOKED for the no right turn sign and not found it in the past. The arrow light should have a "No Right Turn" arrow beneath it because the sign on the left of the road is too far back. The arrow on the ground was not visible because I was in a queue of traffic and the traffic light was not visible because of the glare. The only thing I really stand to lose is the appeal itself but I stand to gain a revoked fine and point and could potentially make a junction I use regularly safer for all road users with better markings.

ncmc

OP the issue here seems to be the glare of the sun rather than the sign, road markings and traffic light not being clear. In that case, you need to take extra care and adjust your driving to the conditions. If you crash in to the back of another car when it's raining and stopping distance is reduced, you're still at fault for the incident, you didn't adjust your driving to the conditions. I'm afraid you don't have much of a case.

Kimbot

dolallyoh wrote: »

I can sympathise with OP though.

This one is my current bug bear - complained the day it was finished but still there 2 years later.

https://goo.gl/maps/84gqYNznZWP2

If you come around that corner as the megane is doing you will find yourself going head first into a car if you aren't aware of the design in advance.

I see the lines arent exactly right but apart from that if a car turning left at that junction hits another car head on then they are just careless and taking the corner far too wide, theres plenty of space to get around that corner.

Torcaill

Undue care and attention springs to mind. You sure you weren't chasing pokemon?

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I love how definitively people are saying it won't win an appeal. If it was you getting the fine and point for something you genuinely did by mistake, I bet you would appeal it too. The Garda in the station I spoke to wasn't being sarcastic, he took a good look at my photos and listened to what I told him and said earnestly that he'd be interested to see how my appeal went.

The reason I'm appealing it is because it is objectively a poorly marked junction, and I say that as somebody who has LOOKED for the no right turn sign and not found it in the past. The arrow light should have a "No Right Turn" arrow beneath it because the sign on the left of the road is too far back. The arrow on the ground was not visible because I was in a queue of traffic and the traffic light was not visible because of the glare. The only thing I really stand to lose is the appeal itself but I stand to gain a revoked fine and point and could potentially make a junction I use regularly safer for all road users with better markings.

Well if you havent copped that sign in three years of driving on that road then you may need to book an appointment with specsavers. Once missing the sign I can understand but missing it numerous times over a 3 year period just screams of "I dont care, I'll do what I want"

dolallyoh

jonnycivic wrote: »

I see the lines arent exactly right but apart from that if a car turning left at that junction hits another car head on then they are just careless and taking the corner far too wide, theres plenty of space to get around that corner.

Yes of course - drive around it at 15mph - no worries, I agree with you.

There is a misleading middle line near the B in blackthorn giving the impression that that is the midway part of the road.

blackwhite

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I didn't NOT TAKE NOTE of it. I couldn't see it. I couldn't see the arrow on the road because it was faded and I couldn't see the arrow light due to poor visibility from the glare of the sunlight. The sign is covered in gunk and was also obscured in shadow.

If you couldn't see the arrow, how did you know you had a green light to proceed?

You claim to have driven this road for three years; then your observation skills must be lacking - or was the sun glaring every other time you've driven the road too?

blackwhite

jonnycivic wrote: »

I see the lines arent exactly right but apart from that if a car turning left at that junction hits another car head on then they are just careless and taking the corner far too wide, theres plenty of space to get around that corner.

Think that poster must have been caught on the google camera :pac:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.27793,-6.2067405,3a,75y,319.13h,75.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdfoS7-vvtHfMYMCHoO4cmg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

whippet

The OP is just clutching at straws here. The guards would have looked at the photos to humour him rather than having a row about it. Plus it's not the Gardas job to argue about the photos .. that is for a judge. The guard witnessed an illegal right hand turn .. the rest is up to either a FPN or if the OP really wants to waste their time, money and increased points, a judge

As an aside ... if you couldn't see the green arrow how did you know you had a green light? So either you are driving around in conditions you are not competent to do or you know full well you just got caught and want to chance your arm

degsie

op mentioned that once before he was held up behind a car making this illegal right turn while a truck behind him was blasting the horn.

Assuming 'glare' wasn't an issue in this instance, he still did not cop on about the no right turn. I would question this drivers ability to note simple observations, and given the penalty points already got for speeding, his general behavior on the roads.

Judge will have a field day.

BeardySi

OP - you're 100% in the right and will most certainly win an appeal. This is a travesty of justice and just a moneymaking exercise undertaken by the corrupt Garda at the behest of a greedy state. The ahead only arrows on the road and the traffic light in no way indicate that a right turn is forbidden in the absence of a sign to back them up.
Not a lot of point in saying anything else in this thread really.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I love all the untrue assumptions you make based on a simple statement. For one thing, I'm not a him (and I absolutely can't wait all the insults about my gender and our driving ability). I got four speeding points in one day coming through Mallow because on the way up, the queue of cars I was in was overtaking a tractor which had pulled in (on the way down) and because the speed changed abruptly going into the village on the way back and I didn't slow down on time. There was no van visible on the road so I didn't know it until the following few days when the fine arrived, but a reliable friend from the area said she knows a Garda down there who sits in his living room pointing the bloody hairdrier out the window to rack up scores of fines.

I'm looking forward to having a reasonable, civil exchange with the judge about the junction and voicing my concerns for other road users. Certain people here are so smug in their beliefs, it's really true what people say about the Irish as a nation of begrudgers. If I heard of somebody making an honest mistake at a junction, I'd support them in their appeal of it. God knows enough people get shafted by Gardaí while actual crimes go unheeded.

Stheno

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I love all the untrue assumptions you make based on a simple statement. For one thing, I'm not a him (and I absolutely can't wait all the insults about my gender and our driving ability). I got four speeding points in one day coming through Mallow because on the way up, the queue of cars I was in was overtaking a tractor which had pulled in (on the way down) and because the speed changed abruptly going into the village on the way back and I didn't slow down on time. There was no van visible on the road so I didn't know it until the following few days when the fine arrived, but a reliable friend from the area said she knows a Garda down there who sits in his living room pointing the bloody hairdrier out the window to rack up scores of fines.

I'm looking forward to having a reasonable, civil exchange with the judge about the junction and voicing my concerns for other road users. Certain people here are so smug in their beliefs, it's really true what people say about the Irish as a nation of begrudgers. If I heard of somebody making an honest mistake at a junction, I'd support them in their appeal of it. God knows enough people get shafted by Gardaí while actual crimes go unheeded.

So you are not going to pay the fine but will appeal to the judge in court?

Cheensbo

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

a reliable friend from the area said she knows a Garda down there who sits in his living room pointing the bloody hairdrier out the window to rack up scores of fines.

Your reliable friend is full of shít.

The Gardai have to stop you there and then if using a 'hairdryer' to show you your speed and issue the fcpn.

The only postal issue fines are from either go safe vans or the gardai's own speed vans.

And you'd be hard pressed to fit a transit van into most living rooms.

whippet

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I love all the untrue assumptions you make based on a simple statement. For one thing, I'm not a him (and I absolutely can't wait all the insults about my gender and our driving ability). I got four speeding points in one day coming through Mallow because on the way up, the queue of cars I was in was overtaking a tractor which had pulled in (on the way down) and because the speed changed abruptly going into the village on the way back and I didn't slow down on time. There was no van visible on the road so I didn't know it until the following few days when the fine arrived, but a reliable friend from the area said she knows a Garda down there who sits in his living room pointing the bloody hairdrier out the window to rack up scores of fines.

I'm looking forward to having a reasonable, civil exchange with the judge about the junction and voicing my concerns for other road users. Certain people here are so smug in their beliefs, it's really true what people say about the Irish as a nation of begrudgers. If I heard of somebody making an honest mistake at a junction, I'd support them in their appeal of it. God knows enough people get shafted by Gardaí while actual crimes go unheeded.

it seems that everytime you get caught is't someone else to blame ... as for the guard sitting in the house story .. total nonsense as pointed out earlier .. maybe you should bring that up in court also .. the Judge would be delighted to hear a story like that.

One other thing ... when the guard stopped you; was he wearing his hat? This might be something you can bring up in court also .. i'm sure your mate who knows the lad with the hairdryer in the living room will explain the importance of the hat.

Kimbot

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I love all the untrue assumptions you make based on a simple statement. For one thing, I'm not a him (and I absolutely can't wait all the insults about my gender and our driving ability). I got four speeding points in one day coming through Mallow because on the way up, the queue of cars I was in was overtaking a tractor which had pulled in (on the way down) and because the speed changed abruptly going into the village on the way back and I didn't slow down on time. There was no van visible on the road so I didn't know it until the following few days when the fine arrived, but a reliable friend from the area said she knows a Garda down there who sits in his living room pointing the bloody hairdrier out the window to rack up scores of fines.

I'm looking forward to having a reasonable, civil exchange with the judge about the junction and voicing my concerns for other road users. Certain people here are so smug in their beliefs, it's really true what people say about the Irish as a nation of begrudgers. If I heard of somebody making an honest mistake at a junction, I'd support them in their appeal of it. God knows enough people get shafted by Gardaí while actual crimes go unheeded.

The problem here is it is not "an honest mistake". The road signs are clear and you didnt heed them, and its not the first time you didnt heed them either as you pointed out you have taken that exact turn on multiple occasions. Its not begrudgery but your actions of taking a right turn on that road can cause an accident hence why posters are pointing it out to you. Your observation skills are severely lacking and instead of taking responsibility for your own actions you come on here giving out at people that wont support you :rolleyes:

jive

Rogelio Dry Sympathy wrote: »

I'm looking forward to having a reasonable, civil exchange with the judge about the junction and voicing my concerns for other road users. Certain people here are so smug in their beliefs, it's really true what people say about the Irish as a nation of begrudgers. If I heard of somebody making an honest mistake at a junction, I'd support them in their appeal of it. God knows enough people get shafted by Gardaí while actual crimes go unheeded.

If you want to voice your concerns, email your local council. Why are you intent on wasting your own and a courts time by pursuing this under the guise that you are doing it for other road users when the reality is you just feel hard done by?

You made an honest mistake, fair enough. Unfortunately, whether you intended to do it or not does not matter. You failed to see the sign, failed to see the green filter arrow and failed to see the arrow on the road or simply did not take heed of any of these indicators. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Take literally everyone's advice in this thread and just take it on the chin because this is only going to end up worse if you bring it to court. It's a total pain in the arse but it's the lesser of two evils. Just let it go.

GM228

Treadhead wrote: »

OP - you're 100% in the right and will most certainly win an appeal. This is a travesty of justice and just a moneymaking exercise undertaken by the corrupt Garda at the behest of a greedy state. The ahead only arrows on the road and the traffic light in no way indicate that a right turn is forbidden in the absence of a sign to back them up.
Not a lot of point in saying anything else in this thread really.

The directional arrow in a traffic light indicates the direction traffic is permitted to take and the white painted arrow on the roadway indicate the direction traffic must take so they alone show no right turn is allowed.

Kimbot

GM228 wrote: »

The directional arrow in a traffic light indicates the direction traffic is permitted to take and the white painted arrow on the roadway indicate the direction traffic must take so they alone show no right turn is allowed.

I believe he is been sarcastic :P

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Stheno wrote: »

So you are not going to pay the fine but will appeal to the judge in court?

I've got my FCN Cancellation form ready to go, surely be to God they'll have a response back to me before the end of the year. Do you go before a judge then? I have no idea, I've never done this before.

Cheensbo wrote: »

The only postal issue fines are from either go safe vans or the gardai's own speed vans.

Well I got a fine on the way up and down and we didn't see any trace of a van either time and they have to be visible on the roadside so it seems plausible. Look, I paid those fines because I was speeding and I've driven responsibly since. I'm really annoyed that I made a genuine mistake because of poor road markings and glare precisely because I am a responsible road user and I don't want anyone else to make a similar mistake.

jonnycivic wrote: »

The problem here is it is not "an honest mistake". The road signs are clear and you didnt heed them, and its not the first time you didnt heed them either as you pointed out you have taken that exact turn on multiple occasions. Its not begrudgery but your actions of taking a right turn on that road can cause an accident hence why posters are pointing it out to you. Your observation skills are severely lacking and instead of taking responsibility for your own actions you come on here giving out at people that wont support you

Not looking for support (I'm hardly traumatised over the event), just for the various different views and considerations I'd need to make going forward. I mostly got the view "you broke the law f you" in this thread but a lot of people have pointed out why they can see how I made the mistake too. The Garda saw me doing the illegal turn, so he would also have seen how I endangered nobody because I was left go by the opposing driver and proceeded at a very slow speed because of the poor visibility.

If anyone knew more about the process of appeals and going before judges and increased penalty points/fines etc. lots of terms have been bandied around but I still have no clue what to expect from all that. I rang the hotline earlier but they just told me to go to the website which had a link to the phone number for the hotline, which is why I decided to post here and get lots of internet warriors riled up and giving me their thoughts about what a terrible driver I am. The thread has given me a lot to think about going forward (ahem) but not much factual information about the process, which is what I actually wanted.