Where will Dublin's public transport be 10 years from now

Chivito550

In November 2026, how much different will Dublin's public transport look compared to today? Do you envisage much improvements? If so, what improvements are likely?

MrMorooka

Luas BXD will be running. There might be a BRT running on the N11 or the N3 corridor. That's about it, to be quite honest.

Clonmel1000

What are the big differences since 2006 10 years ago?

howiya

Maybe we'll be able to get a bus after half 11

Chivito550

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

What are the big differences since 2006 10 years ago?

Extensions on green line to Brides Glen, and on red line to Saggart and the Point. The RTPI for Dublin Bus. Can't think of a lot else.

Spanish Eyes

Buses and bikes only in the city centre.

GreenFolder2

A few weeks trams and a new colour scheme for Dublin Bus. (I'm an optimist)

Roadhawk

Chivito550 wrote: »

In November 2026, how much different will Dublin's public transport look compared to today? Do you envisage much improvements? If so, what improvements are likely?

Well considering that forward development is being reversed to how it was years ago I would hazard a guess that public transport will be the only way in or out of Dublin City unless you are within walking/cycling distance.

College Green, Dublin some time ago...
https://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joycesdublin.ie%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F12%2FCollege-Green-Dublin2b-1023x674.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D1639844&docid=U4KWD3NnF92gNM&tbnid=4OmXXt04rY8GAM%3A&vet=1&w=1023&h=674&bih=331&biw=1022&ved=0ahUKEwjmh8qAib_QAhVJKsAKHUkyCpsQMwg3KBQwFA&iact=mrc&uact=8#h=674&vet=1&w=1023

College Green, Dublin to be...
https://www.google.ie/search?q=college+green+proposal&rlz=1C1VFKB_enIE663IE663&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixop7aiL_QAhXFB8AKHQipAKUQ_AUICCgB&biw=1022&bih=331#tbm=isch&q=college+green+pedestrian+proposal&imgrc=zQ5xfhyn-vdbIM%3A

Sam Russell

Roadhawk wrote: »

Well considering that forward development is being reversed to how it was years ago I would hazard a guess that public transport will be the only way in or out of Dublin City unless you are within walking/cycling distance.

College Green, Dublin some time ago...
https://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joycesdublin.ie%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F12%2FCollege-Green-Dublin2b-1023x674.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D1639844&docid=U4KWD3NnF92gNM&tbnid=4OmXXt04rY8GAM%3A&vet=1&w=1023&h=674&bih=331&biw=1022&ved=0ahUKEwjmh8qAib_QAhVJKsAKHUkyCpsQMwg3KBQwFA&iact=mrc&uact=8#h=674&vet=1&w=1023

College Green, Dublin to be...
https://www.google.ie/search?q=college+green+proposal&rlz=1C1VFKB_enIE663IE663&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixop7aiL_QAhXFB8AKHQipAKUQ_AUICCgB&biw=1022&bih=331#tbm=isch&q=college+green+pedestrian+proposal&imgrc=zQ5xfhyn-vdbIM%3A

More trams in the first picture.

Carawaystick

Maybe some park&ride schemes at the outskirts on N4, N3, N2, M1

Some better PT connecting Sandyford area

thomasj

The metro and interconnector will be announced again, with money assigned to planning and design stage

hmmm

The DB "pay parity with LUAS" strike of 2017 will have ended with a Varadkar government closing Dublin Bus and instructing the NTA to tender for private operators on city services. After significant disruption and a wildcat Irish Rail strike, Dubliners will welcome the new services run to a strict SLA - one of the private operators will lose their franchise on a route because their drivers refuse to operate the middle doors. Metro North and Dart underground will go ahead as part of a crash program to alleviate chronic gridlock - costing twice as much as they would have cost in 2016. The city centre will be largely closed to car traffic, and Dubliners will enjoy sitting out in the evening at cafes on Dame Street, a howling wind whipping through their legs and heavy rain hammering against their heads.

thomasj

hmmm wrote: »

The DB "pay parity with LUAS" strike of 2017 will have ended with a Varadkar government closing Dublin Bus and instructing the NTA to tender for private operators on city services. After significant disruption and a wildcat Irish Rail strike, Dubliners will welcome the new services run to a strict SLA - one of the private operators will lose their franchise on a route because their drivers refuse to operate the middle doors. Metro North and Dart underground will go ahead as part of a crash program to alleviate chronic gridlock - costing twice as much as they would have cost in 2016. The city centre will be largely closed to car traffic, and Dubliners will enjoy sitting out in the evening at cafes on Dame Street, a howling wind whipping through their legs and heavy rain hammering against their heads.

you're an optimist aren't you?!

thomasj

Maybe trains to Maynooth after 9pm on a Sunday

devnull

Carawaystick wrote: »

Some better PT connecting Sandyford area

Sandyford does not have bad public transport. It does not have perfect public transport but it has a high capacity tram running up to every 5 minutes, via a route that has virtually no interaction with traffic taking 20 minutes to/from city centre starting an hour before and finishing an hour later than virtually every other public transport operator in the entire city.

Whilst there may be scope for some orbital route improvements in the area, there are many areas in dire need of proper public transport that are heavily bus dependent or have much poorer frequency and journey times and are suffering overcrowding and a service that starts too late and finishes too early.

Your post reminds me of some guy on the DART a few weeks ago moaning that Dun Laoghairie has terrible transport and too many old buses are on the route. I mean it only has the highest capacity buses in the whole fleet, the highest frequency of any bus service, the highest frequency of any rail service and a direct airport rout and some old dear or guy moans because the bus is not a 162 reg and is a 08.

What we do need is to sort out congestion in the city centre which is only going to get worse in the coming years and to also get some proper transport infrastructure on the northside because else there is going to be a traffic armageddon there soon since the vast majority of people have no choice but to use the bus since the majority of that part of the city don't have anything else.

I believe we should invest in the Southside too though to reduce congestion and expand the benefits of non road transport in these areas as well though, but opening up new services and better transport to areas currently served, rather than blowing a whole load of money to simply reduce journey times by a fraction to areas that are already comparatively well served.

devnull

thomasj wrote: »

Maybe trains to Maynooth after 9pm on a Sunday

I agree. however the Northside isn't glamorous enough for that.

cherryghost

I hope more orbital routes to alleviate CC congestion. If I'm to anywhere around Dublin right now, its a 1 and a half hour trip that involves going into the CC and then switching bus to get to another 'burb

Grandeeod

Great thread that depends on a bit of recent history. History always helps.:D

2006 - the world was our oyster despite previous form.

2016 - Nothing much has changed.

2026 - I guarantee you that any version of DU or MN will not be under construction.

devnull

If they have not done any proper transport infrastructure works in 10 years time we might need another recession to stop the city grinding to total Armageddon

Poxyshamrock

Dublin Bus will be cashless.

Pawwed Rig

Self driving cars render other forms of public transport obsolete.

maninasia

Self driving cars won't make any change to the congestion problem,nor will they be allowed into city center most likely.

NIMAN

As someone who lives as far away from Dublin as it's possible to get in this country, I have no doubt that 10 years will see absolutely no improvement in the public transport system in Dublin.

Its a mess, has been for many a year and hearing about how slow it is around the Red Cow will be on AA Roadwatch in 20yrs time.

Irish Steve

maninasia wrote: »

Self driving cars won't make any change to the congestion problem,nor will they be allowed into city center most likely.

If there's enough of them, they will. Self driving cards won't jump red lights, break speed limits, lane hop, make late lane changes, jump into braking distances, pass on the wrong side, drive without lights, make illegal turns, double park, harass cyclists, use bus lanes, drink tea or other refreshments, eat breakfast, apply makeup, read the paper, make phone calls or text, all of which are major factors in contributing to the absurd number of incidents ( I refuse to call them accidents, as the vast majority are forseeable and preventable) that occur on a too regular basis all round the Dublin area.

The biggest problem though will be the passengers that become impatient with the extra time that they think that driving properly is costing them, so they will want to take over from the automation, which will defeat the object, and perpetuate the problems that are the contributors to the delays.

carltonleon

Stuck in a traffic jam !!!

magicbastarder

maninasia wrote: »

Self driving cars won't make any change to the congestion problem,nor will they be allowed into city center most likely.

see point 4.
http://www.cracked.com/article_24390_5-ways-driverless-cars-will-soon-make-your-life-hell.html

Pawwed Rig

Irish Steve wrote: »

If there's enough of them, they will. Self driving cards won't jump red lights, break speed limits, lane hop, make late lane changes, jump into braking distances, pass on the wrong side, drive without lights, make illegal turns, double park, harass cyclists, use bus lanes, drink tea or other refreshments, eat breakfast, apply makeup, read the paper, make phone calls or text, all of which are major factors in contributing to the absurd number of incidents ( I refuse to call them accidents, as the vast majority are forseeable and preventable) that occur on a too regular basis all round the Dublin area.

The biggest problem though will be the passengers that become impatient with the extra time that they think that driving properly is costing them, so they will want to take over from the automation, which will defeat the object, and perpetuate the problems that are the contributors to the delays.

If it comes to a situation where people do not own their cars and instead call them as needed it would be simple to car pool for commuting with little additional time needed.
Commutes would be cut as you are collected and dropped off at your door.
Congestion lessened as cars take quickest route available.
No dreamers at green lights not moving or guys stopped in junctions blocking everyone.
If trains went self driving (which could be done today imo) the cars could drop people at stations and collect them at the other side thereby further reducing congestion. Walking and cycling would be safer too.
It will happen. 10 years might be optimistic in Ireland but other parts of the world will have this.

monument

Roadhawk wrote: »

Well considering that forward development is being reversed to how it was years ago I would hazard a guess that public transport will be the only way in or out of Dublin City unless you are within walking/cycling distance.

Lucky there's somewhere between 0.8 million to over 1 million people within cycling distance of the city centre.

And cycling can help expand the reach of Luas, Dart, BRT etc. Some park and ride / cycle units at outer transport hubs would be great too.

Conditions for cycling just need to be improved.

maninasia

I think self driving cars on demand will be big as well as car pooling on demand, so yes there's potential to cut down on extra trips and also maximize parking space.
Self driving cars could have their own lane where they form convoy type lines for optimum speed and fuel efficiency.

Yes this all could help, the problem is that roads have limited space, and if commuters find it nicer and easier to travel by car instead of by bus, you just get jammed up roads again! Plus people may feel more comfortable with longer commutes as they work in the cars or sleep or jump each other .

I see self driving cars offering no major step change from commuter hell.

Some kind of self driving on demand bus however could offer a medium level step change.

None of these options can compete with proper metros and rail mass transportation for shifting commuters efficiently.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3662/3398936283_9978441a5a.jpg

Roadhawk

monument wrote: »

Lucky there's somewhere between 0.8 million to over 1 million people within cycling distance of the city centre.

With those figures, you're suggesting the that majority of people in Dublin can cycle based on their location.

monument wrote: »

And cycling can help expand the reach of Luas, Dart, BRT etc. Some park and ride / cycle units at outer transport hubs would be great too.

Ive never used a park and ride so cant comment from experience but I would be inclined to think it would be terribly inconvenient to drive/cycle for 10 to 15+ mins to then wait for another 10 to 15+ mins for a train/bus/luas to arrive and then another 20 to 30+ min trip to the city centre. It usually takes me 1 hour (give or take 15mins) to drive without having to brave the elements and in the comfort of a heated seat and RTE radio 1

monument wrote: »

Conditions for cycling just need to be improved.

I agree with that...but not with at the expense of private motorist as a specific group.

Chivito550

Roadhawk wrote: »

With those figures, you're suggesting the that majority of people in Dublin can cycle based on their location.

Ive never used a park and ride so cant comment from experience but I would be inclined to think it would be terribly inconvenient to drive/cycle for 10 to 15+ mins to then wait for another 10 to 15+ mins for a train/bus/luas to arrive and then another 20 to 30+ min trip to the city centre. It usually takes me 1 hour (give or take 15mins) to drive without having to brave the elements and in the comfort of a heated seat and RTE radio 1


I agree with that...but not with at the expense of private motorist as a specific group.

LUAS is every 2-3 minutes in the morning, not 10-15 minutes. For those who live near a Park and Ride and work in town, it is a no brainer to take the LUAS and avoid the horrible gridlock that makes this such an uncomfortable city to move around.

Pawwed Rig

Chivito550 wrote: »

LUAS is every 2-3 minutes in the morning, not 10-15 minutes. For those who live near a Park and Ride and work in town, it is a no brainer to take the LUAS and avoid the horrible gridlock that makes this such an uncomfortable city to move around.

Luas is not a great mode of transport. It is slow, uncomfortable and has anti social issues thrown in. Given the option I would cycle or get a scooter before Luas. Would go with Luas before the bus though.

Chivito550

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Luas is not a great mode of transport. It is slow, uncomfortable and has anti social issues thrown in. Given the option I would cycle or get a scooter before Luas. Would go with Luas before the bus though.

By European standards it is not great. By Irish standards it is. Certainly far quicker at rush hour than driving or taking a bus.

Roadhawk

Chivito550 wrote: »

LUAS is every 2-3 minutes in the morning, not 10-15 minutes.

Their site says different...other than Peak times at Belgard being 3-5 mins most of the other waiting times are as i mentioned 10-15mins...

https://www.luas.ie/red-line-frequency.html

Chivito550 wrote: »

For those who live near a Park and Ride and work in town, it is a no brainer to take the LUAS and avoid the horrible gridlock that makes this such an uncomfortable city to move around.

If a Luas passed my door id probably use it for most city trips.

Chivito550

Roadhawk wrote: »

Their site says different...other than Peak times at Belgard being 3-5 mins most of the other waiting times are as i mentioned 10-15mins...

https://www.luas.ie/red-line-frequency.html


If a Luas passed my door id probably use it for most city trips.

That's only going from Saggart or Tallaght. Once the 2 join up the frequency is obviously double that. Also I'd be amazed if frequency is only 9-10 minutes at Tallaght in the morning. I get the LUAS from Ballaly and when I arrive at the stop I always see something like the following:

2 mins
3 mins
6 mins
7 mins

That kind of frequency.

Roadhawk

Chivito550 wrote: »

That's only going from Saggart or Tallaght. Once the 2 join up the frequency is obviously double that. Also I'd be amazed if frequency is only 9-10 minutes at Tallaght in the morning. I get the LUAS from Ballaly and when I arrive at the stop I always see something like the following:

2 mins
3 mins
6 mins
7 mins

That kind of frequency.

They're clearly improving on their stats

hytrogen

Luas green line extended further north and south, luas blue line from Blanchardstown interconnecting via dame street to Pearce station.
Trinity college & Christ church cathedral finally get burrowed under, stalled by the discovery of ancient manuscripts, bones & other goolish naughties Trinners & the church wiped under the carpet centuries ago and education in this country collapses as a result of the hypocrisies unearthed! Bike scheme expanded to compensate for no car zone between the canals and a train line finally makes it to an airport on this island..
Laughs all the way to the bank

Charles Babbage

It isn't rocket science.
Two expensive but vital projects are needed, DART underground and quadrupling track from Connolly to Howth Junction.
Just get on with it.

Vic_08

hytrogen wrote: »

and a train line finally makes it to an airport on this island..

My money is on Knock, Dublin gets new runway, West gets GLUAS extended to Knock via WRC to appease the "Dublin gets everything" moaners. Journey time of 2hrs but who cares, they want it to have, not to use.

XPS_Zero

Vic_08 wrote: »

My money is on Knock, Dublin gets new runway, West gets GLUAS extended to Knock via WRC to appease the "Dublin gets everything" moaners. Journey time of 2hrs but who cares, they want it to have, not to use.

Have we not pis@d enough money away on low / no population density areas giving them projects like WRC and Trains when there's basically no demand based on local politics and this stupid irrational chip on their shoulder about Diblin

XPS_Zero

Deedsie wrote: »

Oh ya cause absolutely no one from Dublin has a chip on their shoulder about rural Ireland. Until Dublin based governments loosen the purse strings and fund the M20 I dont think it's far off to accuse them of sabotaging any hope for the west of Ireland to be able compete with the East.

It's not Dublin needs infrastructural investment or rural areas that needs infrastructural investment. Ireland needs infrastructural investment. One country, one people, one transport network.

There's no such thing as a Dublin based govt
•The Taoiseach not from Dublin
•Most TDs are not from Dublin
•Most Senators are not from Dublin
•Many ministers are not from Dublin
•The most likely replacement Taoiseach from FF is from Cork and his two possible coalition partners in a future govt are from Wexford and Louth

The govt works in Dublin but visits areas countrywide all the time. TDs and Senators spend just 3 days a week in Dublin as that's when the Senate and Dail sit (not in session at all most of the year) the rest of the time they're back in their constituency

Yes Ireland needs infrastructure but it has to be put where we get the most bang for our buck and in a contest between upgrading the Ballybrophy line or building a Cork or Galway Luas when the possible passenger numbers are lower than just one major Dublin suburb and building DART Underground or metro it's no brainier
Building them = economic stimulus + more business development which = more tax revenue for things like broadband in other cities it's not Dublin gains country looses

The attitude I refer to is the idea that outside Dublin gets screwed while Dublin gets everything reality simply does not reflect this. A capital city geographically close to our trade markets and political links with short transport links, more effecent public transport and an existing dense network of utilities they can plug into will always attract more business

We can move western cities from a 1 to a 5/6 but expecting them to pack a 10 and mirror the capital is a fantasy

Gonzo

By 2026 I expect transport in Dublin to be identical to what it is today. Only difference is the luas should hopefully connect by then and M50 will be way more overcrowded than it is today. Dublin Airport will still be served by only buses and taxi's for public transport.

gary0345

A train service from the Dublin Airport, to the city is really needed. It's a disgrace that tourists have to cart their luggage on a packed bus or pay mad money for a taxi. Dublin only has the one airport and it's the counties largest airport where obviously enough most of its tourism flies in to. Maybe this has turned people away from coming here in the last.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was told that not a single new train track has been been built in this country since the English left. excluding tram tracks and the fixing of existing tracks. Are we that far behind?

On a more positive note. I have been using Dublin bus for a good few years now and I think it runs pretty well. It generally runs on time and the RT on the app and on the screens at the bus stops are great. It covers a lot of ground so you can get almost anywhere In Dublin with two buses.

vg88

By 2026 IMO:

A new luas line is announced and is currently/ planning to be built.

Dublin Airport Hub situation for transport will reach a critical level due to passengers loads being plus 35 million and the metro (the one planned anyway) will go ahead with massive DAA involvement pushing for it (With support from airlines) seeing traffic at Dublin airport becoming impractical. A third terminal will be almost finished at the time.

Irish rail will extend the dart up to Gormanston or Drogedha. Another line from Clongriffen will be in place or planned to be built to the airport.

DB, maybe new buses that actually use the doors? Will be cashless. Apart from that can't see much of a change in DB.

Am I too hopeful?

Pawwed Rig

moloner4 wrote: »

Am I too hopeful?

In a word Yes.
Unless something is already in the planning stages with a clear plan ahead it will not be completed within 10 years. Exception where it is private industry driving it rather than state.

Idbatterim

In terms of the airport. It will hit 28,000,000 this year over 30 next and when the new runway opens that will deliver a further good chimck in passenger figures. I reckon it will be 40 million plus before any rail link is built out there.

If we have the rugby World Cup here and there is still no rail link, which there won't be, it's a total and utter disgrace!

hytrogen

Deedsie wrote:

It's not Dublin needs infrastructural investment or rural areas that needs infrastructural investment. Ireland needs infrastructural investment. One country, one people, one transport network.

**AH worthy comment warning**
That's why they built the M50 in a ring fort to keep the sheep shaggers out :P

We all know the polla-chickens love to kick the awkward bucket down the road but WOT, knocklink & Dublin airlink (either dart underground, Luas or overground to malahide: there's your three quotes ) are all easily achievable in the timeframe needed, definitely because the RWC bid is being put in and we are gaining on the international financial foothold in terms of london city looking at Ireland to divest into now with Brexit. It's getting people to take their fingers & wallets out to cough up the shillings is an other..

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

There's no such thing as a Dublin based govt
•The Taoiseach not from Dublin
•Most TDs are not from Dublin
•Most Senators are not from Dublin
•Many ministers are not from Dublin
•The most likely replacement Taoiseach from FF is from Cork and his two possible coalition partners in a future govt are from Wexford and Louth

The govt works in Dublin but visits areas countrywide all the time. TDs and Senators spend just 3 days a week in Dublin as that's when the Senate and Dail sit (not in session at all most of the year) the rest of the time they're back in their constituency

Yes Ireland needs infrastructure but it has to be put where we get the most bang for our buck and in a contest between upgrading the Ballybrophy line or building a Cork or Galway Luas when the possible passenger numbers are lower than just one major Dublin suburb and building DART Underground or metro it's no brainier
Building them = economic stimulus + more business development which = more tax revenue for things like broadband in other cities it's not Dublin gains country looses

The attitude I refer to is the idea that outside Dublin gets screwed while Dublin gets everything reality simply does not reflect this. A capital city geographically close to our trade markets and political links with short transport links, more effecent public transport and an existing dense network of utilities they can plug into will always attract more business

We can move western cities from a 1 to a 5/6 but expecting them to pack a 10 and mirror the capital is a fantasy

here are a couple of facts. facts that deal in reality rather then soundbites.

1. the us v them is only something perpetuated by politicians and believed by a small few to be representative of most people. it doesn't actually exist in reality for the vast majority of people.
2. most people are reasonable and are fine with dublin getting what it needs. all they ask for is not to be deprived and left behind, after all they pay taxes as well.
now i can't force you to believe the reality, but realistically if you actually thought about things more you would realise that your soundbites actually don't reflect reality for anyone bar the politicians who perpetuate the us v them nonsense and the small few who believe it to be representative of many or most when it isn't.

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

The DB "pay parity with LUAS" strike of 2017 will have ended with a Varadkar government closing Dublin Bus and instructing the NTA to tender for private operators on city services. After significant disruption and a wildcat Irish Rail strike, Dubliners will welcome the new services run to a strict SLA

in 2018 however, after people realise they were lied to, a huge fare rise was implemented and a almost city wide strike happened due to staff across all companies looking for equal pay and conditions, a cry of renationalise it again was so loud, it could be heard in australia.

hmmm wrote: »

one of the private operators will lose their franchise on a route because their drivers refuse to operate the middle doors.

however, quite surprisingly the same company a couple of years later end up winning multiple former franchises, as the NTA decide it's cheeper to bring multiple routes under 1 operator rather then 1 operator per route as they had been doing.



in all seriousness though, no company would lose their franchise unless it was for something extremely serious. most likely financial reasons. as that sort of thing wouldn't happen in ireland or britain unless it was something extremely serious such as that.

end of the road

now, where do i think public transport will be in 10 years? i know this is about dublin but i may as well get it in regardless.

rail. well, CIE and government will have got their wish and all bar dart and maybe kildare/maynooth at a stretch will be gone. they will even close the east cork branch just to finish the job they started in cork all those years ago with west cork. the NTA won't give a damn about the users and the dart infrastructure will creak even more with more trains, huge overcrowding and no plans to actually deal with the issue from government. they're will even be a campaign to close dart down which will be very vocal.

busses. they're will probably be a few to a lot of tendered routes but like the railway, the NTA will be a weak regulator who won't stand up for the user of those routes. the companies will also be blamed for things that aren't of their control or making as the NTA decide more cost cutting must take place effecting various aspects.

i love doom and gloom me. but i wouldn't be surprised if some bit of that comes true.

Zebra3

gary0345 wrote: »

Dublin only has the one airport and it's the counties largest airport

Never a truer word said!!! :pac: