Got a Smart Home? - What's so Smart about it?

AndyBoBandy

As the title states, you've got a smart home? what 'smart' things have you got?

You might have something none of us have heard of, or you might prompt some questions/tips to be shared.

Me;
Lighting - Philips Hue around the entire house.
Heating - Nest 3rd gen Thermostat.
Monitor - Philips InSight HD baby monitor, Zmodo IP HD cam (downstairs baby monitor)
Music - Apple Airport Express connected to laptop speakers hidden above the kitchen units. 2nd gen Apple TV connected to main TV sound bar.

I'd like to add a few Nest smoke/CO detectors, so I'm hoping for a deal of some sort in the coming days.

So what have you got that I don't have, or need, but probably want!

bk

Lighting - Philips Hue (and lots of it)
Heating - Netatmo Thermostat
AV Control - Logitech Harmony Hub + remotes (allows me to hide all my terrible looking AV gear away in a study with just the TV and speakers in the living room).
Music - GHome + 2 x Chromecast Audio attached to speakers
Alternatively Amazon Echo and a Echo dot attached to speakers, a UE Boom 2 to come
In the past, Apple Airport Express attached to speakers.
Monitoring - Canary IP Camera, just ordered Logitech Circle IP Camera
Voice Control - Google Home, Amazon Echo and Echo Dot.
AV toys - Nvidia Shield TV (sort of works with GHome and casting) and a FireTV too.

I ordered a smart lock from kickstarter almost two years ago, still haven't gotten the bloody thing, lesson learned, never buy from a startup!

I like the look of the Nest Protects too and keeping an eye out for them to be reduced like you.

Graham

Lighting - Lifx (E27/B22) and Philips Hue (assortment)
Heating - Nest and Hive
Energy Monitoring - Olive (Oil) and Geo Solo 2
Monitoring - Arlo and Piper NV with power adapters and door/window sensors
Security - Siemens SPC
Media - Apple TV, Fire Stick, Airport Express
Control - Echo Dot, Flic (buttons), Broadlink RM2 Pro (mostly for WiFi to 433Mhz bridging)
An assortment of iBeacons and Eddystone Beacons, basestations and cards.
Raspberry PI (just because)
La Metric - neat little LED display unit with lots of potential uses that I've yet to put it to

On the wish list:
A reasonable smart lock
Lifx +IR bulbs

bk

Graham wrote: »

Monitoring - Arlo and Piper NV with power adapters and door/window sensors
Security - Siemens SPC

Interesting, do you have any integration between the above two?

Graham

bk wrote: »

Interesting, do you have any integration between the above two?

Nothing I'm afraid BK, Arlo/Piper were initially a stopgap solution while organising the Siemens.

To the best of my knowledge there's no API for Arlo or Piper which is a pity, I'm keen to investigate integrating all of the kit at a software level.

Roen

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I'd like to add a few Nest smoke/CO detectors, so I'm hoping for a deal of some sort in the coming days.

I am sure you're probably aware but uk.camelcamelcamel.com is useful for tracking and alerting on amazon prices.
The Nest Protect were down from £89 to £84 last week. That's about the cheapest they've ever been (on Amazon anyways).

bk

Graham wrote: »

Nothing I'm afraid BK, Arlo/Piper were initially a stopgap solution while organising the Siemens.

To the best of my knowledge there's no API for Arlo or Piper which is a pity, I'm keen to investigate integrating all of the kit at a software level.

Yeah, that seems to be the case for most IP Cameras, same for the Canary [1], and Logitech Circle [2] for now. Nest seems to be the only one offering at least some options for integration.

[1] It has support for the wink hub, which seems to be largely dead in the market. It can then work with Amazon Echo via the wink hub. But its seems to be poor support and very buggy. About 6 months ago they announced they would do Apple Homekit support by Autumn, but that it would require new hardware, which just seems to have totally pissed off all their customers. Autumn has come and gone and no sign of this new hardware.

I think they have gone down the wrong path and are only realising it now. People are much more likely to invest in buying multiple cameras, if it integrates well with other systems.

[2] Rumour has it that they are working on support to integrate with the Harmony Hub, which it really should have had from day one and also Apple Homekit support.

I wouldn't be surprised if logitech were working on a new Harmony Hub with Apple Homekit support, which in turn would also work with the Circle cameras.

rolion

A wife and the kids...perfect dream "voice control" X_mation !

Atomic Pineapple

rolion wrote: »

A wife and the kids...perfect dream "voice control" X_mation !

By far the most expensive option :P

Just starting out the automation myself, have 4 hue bulbs, Nest Cam and hoping to pick up a Echo Dot if it pops up in the Black Friday sale with a tenner off, I know it's already pretty cheap but I plan on picking up Google Home when its available here so only need the Dot as a stop gap.

randombar

Graham wrote: »

Lighting - Lifx (E27/B22) and Philips Hue (assortment)
Heating - Nest and Hive
Energy Monitoring - Olive (Oil) and Geo Solo 2
Monitoring - Arlo and Piper NV with power adapters and door/window sensors
Security - Siemens SPC
Media - Apple TV, Fire Stick, Airport Express
Control - Echo Dot, Flic (buttons), Broadlink RM2 Pro (mostly for WiFi to 433Mhz bridging)
An assortment of iBeacons and Eddystone Beacons, basestations and cards.
Raspberry PI (just because)
La Metric - neat little LED display unit with lots of potential uses that I've yet to put it to

On the wish list:
A reasonable smart lock
Lifx +IR bulbs

Any reason for Lifx and Hue, why not one over another to save on hubs?

The beacons pi and basestations, any nice functionality with them?

BoatMad

why people use NEST in hot water multi room systems is beyond me

I have ELV Homematic electronic TRV, individual ELV room thermostats and boiler switching , all controlled by a PI ( schedules ) , with open window detection ( which I will use as an alarm later )

just currently building a Zwave interface for this, and then I will expand Zwave to do room light and appliance switching

I dont personally see distributed or centralised audio as " smart ", the tech has been around for years , I have Apple TVs and fire stick, but again I dont see this as a smart home system unless its integrated into the home system, which is what Id like to do with the Gen 3 apple TV. To me unless each piece integrates into a whole, its not "smart home"

Graham

GaryCocs wrote: »

Any reason for Lifx and Hue, why not one over another to save on hubs?

There's about 100km between the LIFX and Hue setups, my WiFi isn't that good

Same story with Nest/Hive.

BTW Lifx use WiFi so don't need a hub.

GaryCocs wrote: »

The beacons pi and basestations, any nice functionality with them?

Still experimenting with the PI.

The iBeacons were part of a proof of concept project I was working on a while back, as a result I have a selection of about a dozen different makes/models of beacons. Only now starting to really think about them in an HA capacity. Some of them have additional sensors for motion, light, temperature, humidity and there's a variety of form-factors from USB dongle, credit-card, to self-contained weather resistant models. The limiting factor is most of them only transmit the data alongside the Bluetooth beacon transmission so they need something to bridge them into the smarthome network.

Graham

BoatMad wrote: »

why people use NEST in hot water multi room systems is beyond me

Most people don't want to build there own HA systems/controls/integrations, even those that do are likely to have to pass the partner test before getting it anywhere near the home.

BoatMad

The iBeacons were part of a proof of concept project I was working on a while back, as a result I have a selection of about a dozen different makes/models of beacons. Only now starting to really think about them in an HA capacity. Some of them have additional sensors for motion, light, temperature, humidity and there's a variety of form-factors from USB dongle, credit-card, to self-contained weather resistant models. The limiting factor is most of them only transmit the data alongside the Bluetooth beacon transmission so they need something to bridge them into the smarthome network.

iBeacons , is anyone really using them, never seemed to take off and I played with a few when they first appeared , bit of a deadend technology IMHO

BoatMad

Graham wrote: »

Most people don't want to build there own HA systems/controls/integrations, even those that do are likely to have to pass the partner test before getting it anywhere near the home.

yes but NEST was/is designed to replace the standard US honeywell thermostat , primary on hot air /AC systems in US homes, which typically were not individually room controlled .

totally agree re " partner test", Im having to simplified implied web browser for SWMBO. however she can easily understand and use the electronic room stats and yes the HA integration is a mega pain

It all the wrong idea for what we typically use for heating,simple mechanical TRVs will outperform it

Graham

BoatMad wrote: »

iBeacons , is anyone really using them, never seemed to take off and I played with a few when they first appeared , bit of a deadend technology IMHO

Not just iBeacons, there's Googles competing Eddystone beacons too.

The major limiting factors to adoption are the requirement for Bluetooth to be enabled, an appropriate app to be installed on mobile devices and a useful service being delivered. All of which are changing (slowly). The technology could be quite useful if companies start thinking beyond the ad/coupon delivery use cases.

bk

BoatMad, the vast majority of homes in Ireland don't have TRV's and even for those that do, in my experience don't know how to use the TRV's or have them set properly. And they are totally a pain to get the balance correct.

The vast majority of homes in Ireland are either a single zone or single zone + hot water zone, with a small percentage of tri-zone homes (upstairs and downstairs a separate zone) Nest/Netatmo/Hive, etc. make great drop in replacements for your typically thermostat/programmer in a typical one to three zone Irish house.

It adds the ability to turn on the heating before you leave the office. So you come home to a nice warm home without wastefully using heating. TRV's are completely useless at doing that, a TRV won't do diddly squat to turn on your heating before you get home.

Even if you have TRV's you still need something to actually turn on and off the boiler. TRV's don't do that at all, they simply control the flow of hot water to a particular rad. If you just left your boiler on all the time and controlled the rooms by TRV's you would be massively wasting gas/oil at the boiler unnecessarily.

I really don't get where you get this idea that TRV's are widespread in Ireland. They really aren't, the vast majority of Irish homes don't have individual room control beyond literally turning off the rad. These smart thermostats add a great deal of extra functionality and possible savings to typical Irish homes.

BTW Netatmo now has smart TRV's that links to it's Smart Thermostat, so that you can individually control rooms.

BoatMad

bk wrote: »

BoatMad, the vast majority of homes in Ireland don't have TRV's and even for those that do, in my experience don't know how to use the TRV's or have them set properly. And they are totally a pain to get the balance correct.

mechanical TRV are pain as the action of the valve itself disrupts balance, the situation is far less problematic in electronic TRVS as they react faster , but yes balance is an issue

The vast majority of homes in Ireland are either a single zone or single zone + hot water zone, with a small percentage of tri-zone homes (upstairs and downstairs a separate zone) Nest/Netatmo/Hive, etc. make great drop in replacements for your typically thermostat/programmer in a typical one to three zone Irish house.

My experience is that all new homes within the last few years have TRVS, thats my experience from visiting new houses

A single room thermostat can't hope to adequately control house temperatures, I know I had them for years . You inevitably had to adjust lock shields to permentaly throttle back rads in over heating rooms and some rooms then froze , its a terrible control system and NEST adds brings nothing to the party that a simple iphone connected timer cant do. ( except let google spy on you !!!!)

NEST cant help in the common situation where rooms have windows opened while the heating is still on ,

individual room control is the only answer to controlling hot water radiators efficiency , it cannot be done for whole house hot water . its was designed primarily for US houses and their systems

It adds the ability to turn on the heating before you leave the office. So you come home to a nice warm home without wastefully using heating. TRV's are completely useless at doing that, a TRV won't do diddly squat to turn on your heating before you get home.

I didn't say TRV aren't used without a timer, thats just silly

Even if you have TRV's you still need something to actually turn on and off the boiler. TRV's don't do that at all, they simply control the flow of hot water to a particular rad. If you just left your boiler on all the time and controlled the rooms by TRV's you would be massively wasting gas/oil at the boiler unnecessarily.

There are two methods, all boilers have boiler stats and hence will decrease firing rate as less hot water is being used as the TRVs choke off consumption of heat ( i.e. short cycling )

and the more effective way is for room stats linked to TRVs to " call for heat " no call for heat no running boiler.

I really don't get where you get this idea that TRV's are widespread in Ireland. They really aren't, the vast majority of Irish homes don't have individual room control beyond literally turning off the rad. These smart thermostats add a great deal of extra functionality and possible savings to typical Irish homes.

every home with a heating system typically has a single stat and a timer , NEST bring little to that party especially in terms of fuel efficiency . It certainly adds very little real " smarts " to your house, it does "look" cool however

BTW Netatmo now has smart TRV's that links to it's Smart Thermostat, so that you can individually control rooms.

I know , there are several such system around now, at the price of Netatmo , id go with Zwave compatibility instead, my ELV are 30 euros

Nelbert

I've a Vera Edge Z-wave system. Been slowly expanding it over the last year.....

It controls:

Heating (boost etc. done by scenes)
LED strips above kitchen counters and up along the stairs.
Lamp in Hall
2 lamps in sitting room.
For December it will also control the christmas tree lights.

I've really only started to scratch the surface..... we've a new addition to the household and he thinks it's hilarious that the lights downstairs all come on together (set to turn on two hours before sundown but I might get a light detection unit and base it off that instead). It also integrates with the harmony hub for the front room so that when I turn on the any activity in there the lamp turns off for movie time.

Current plans are more z-wave plugs and lightswitches etc. and a ball valve actuator for the summer so that I can just heat the water instead of manually turning the valve (more for convenience of having hot water turn on remotely rather than the sheer laziness it implies)....

rolion

Lads,with so much devices installed around the house, anyone tought about the effect of wireless radio effects on the human body !?
I'm experiencing very strange simptoms since i got all of those...

AndyBoBandy

rolion wrote: »

Lads,with so much devices installed around the house, anyone tought about the effect of wireless radio effects on the human body !?
I'm experiencing very strange simptoms since i got all of those...

The thought had crossed my mind, I have 34 hue bulbs, 2 IP cameras, a nest and multiple computers/devices connected all over the house, I doubt there are many sacred spaces left in my house that aren't being bombarded with some sort of radio signal.

Nelbert

rolion wrote: »

Lads,with so much devices installed around the house, anyone tought about the effect of wireless radio effects on the human body !?
I'm experiencing very strange simptoms since i got all of those...

Blasphemy! At least if I get unwell my lights and heating will be controllable from my sickbed.

Graham

rolion wrote: »

I'm experiencing very strange simptoms since i got all of those...

Do the symptoms include seeing flashing lights, hearing strange voices and varying stages of feeling hot and cold?

rolion

Graham wrote: »

Do the symptoms include seeing flashing lights, hearing strange voices and varying stages of feeling hot and cold?

Are you call me stupid !?

I am talking about headaches that are not present outside of the house.
Strangely,other members of the family reported simillar issues.

I'm guessing that the wireless radio frequency used by the devices are somehow received by the brain and causing unknown secondary effects.

I have devices logging themselves that is a wirelesss traffic jam ,what more can i say about my headache !?

I mean.. seriously no one tought about the effects on the human body before me, i'm i the only one here thinking or feeling that !??

So,i have :

2.4
5
432
868
gigahertz

bk

BoatMad wrote: »

My experience is that all new homes within the last few years have TRVS, thats my experience from visiting new houses

Yes, that is because building efficiency reqs require it.

However first of all, most people still don't live in a new home. Most people are still living in homes decades if not more then 100 years old and most of those certainly don't have TRV's

And even in the new homes, most of them are the cheapest possible mechanical TRV that the builder could get away with and which you yourself admit are largely useless.

The vast majority of new houses that I'm in I notice that the TRV's are basically set to full blast, making them largely useless. I know they are set as such in my own apartment.

I'd also argue that TRV's are largely irrelevant in one to two bedroom apartments that now make up the majority of new homes. In your typical apartment with the rooms all on one level and next to one another, per room control just doesn't make much difference in my experience.

The digitally controlled TRV's you have are very cool. But a system like your makes up probably less then 1% of homes in Ireland. THe vast majority are single or dual zone, with maybe some of those having largely useless, unused mechanical TRV's

BoatMad wrote: »

That is why for the vast majority, a smart thermostat absolutely is a nice upgrade, that can potentially save money and certainly make life more pleasant.

A single room thermostat can't hope to adequately control house temperatures, I know I had them for years . You inevitably had to adjust lock shields to permentaly throttle back rads in over heating rooms and some rooms then froze , its a terrible control system and NEST adds brings nothing to the party that a simple iphone connected timer cant do. ( except let google spy on you !!!!)

NEST cant help in the common situation where rooms have windows opened while the heating is still on ,

individual room control is the only answer to controlling hot water radiators efficiency , it cannot be done for whole house hot water . its was designed primarily for US houses and their systems

And my point is that the vast majority of homes in Ireland are single zone (excluding hot water) just like the US. So Nest can work fine for them.

I get the impression that you live in a very large house with lots of unused rooms. That isn't typical of most people. Most people live in two bed apartments or three bed houses, where such levels of per room control are largely irrelevant IME.

You mention a "simple iphone connected timer", but that is exactly what Nest/Netatmo/Hive etc. are. They are smart thermostats/timers that allow you to add remote control to your house.

A traditional timer are brute force devices that weren't very good. Yes you could set a schedule, but in our modern world few people come home at the same time every day (working late, heading for drinks after work, etc.) so you ended up with people heating running from 5pm every day, even on the days when people didn't get home until 10, very wasteful!

Smart Thermostats fix this issue with the geolocation feature. Meaning they only run their schedule when they see you are actually home or on the way home. So if you are out until 10, they only turn on the heat when they see you leaving the pub and starting to head home at 9:30.

This is a major, very welcome upgrade to the majority of homes in Ireland and certainly does have potential for significant energy savings depending on peoples usage patterns.

Another advantage is that Nest, Netatmo etc. can be setup wireless, so that the thermostat can actually go in the room we you spend most of the time, rather then just taking the temp readings from a drafty hall where most traditional thermostats are.

I absolutely agree with you that smart TRV's connected to a smart Thermostat (if you have TRV's on all rad's you can ignore the "thermostats" temperature reading, it is just a smart controller) can be a useful addition for people with large houses and unused rooms, but that certainly isn't the majority of people and either way the first step towards this is to have smart controller/thermostat and then add the TRV's to it.

One nice thing about Netatmo's approach is that you can gradually add TRV's as you need them. For instance say you have a traditional two storey home, with one zone and a Thermostat in the hall downstairs. First you can buy the Netatmo Thermostat and have it wirelessly in your living room, so at least the stat is running off the temp in your living room rather then the drafty hall. Then you can buy smart TRV's for each of the rads upstairs, thus creating a virtual dual home system, with the thermostat basically just controlling downstairs. Maybe you have a utility room downstairs that gets rarely used, so eventually you buy an additional TRV for that room.

A very nice system where you can invest gradually and build it up as you need.

BoatMad wrote: »

I know , there are several such system around now, at the price of Netatmo , id go with Zwave compatibility instead, my ELV are 30 euros

Yup, but most people don't have the technical skills to set up what you have and you aren't taking into account the cost of your time to set it up. What Netatmo Evohome, etc. are giving you is an extremely easy to set up and very easy to use system that should pass the partner test.

I love playing with geeky things too. But I'd be murdered by my OH if the heating wasn't 100% reliable and very easy for her to use. Netatmo is ridiculously easy to use, she is loving it.

bk

BTW as an aside, the most important thing is good insulation. My relatively modern apartment almost never drops below 17c and only takes about an hour of heating to get it up to about 20 or 21c and then it tends to stay there for many hours. That is why I think TRV's are largely irrelevant in a modern, well insulated apartment.

bk

rolion wrote: »

Lads,with so much devices installed around the house, anyone tought about the effect of wireless radio effects on the human body !?
I'm experiencing very strange simptoms since i got all of those...

They use unlicensed radio frequencies that we all are bombarded by every day even if you don't buy any of them.

Wifi, DECT phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, taxi company radios, etc. So they really shouldn't add much to all this anyway.

Graham

rolion wrote: »

I mean.. seriously no one tought about the effects on the human body before me, i'm i the only one here thinking or feeling that !??

You're obviously not taking the appropriate countermeasures:



I find it has the additional benefit of keeping the neighbours at a safe distance too.

rolion

bk wrote: »

They use unlicensed radio frequencies that we all are bombarded by every day even if you don't buy any of them.

Wifi, DECT phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, taxi company radios, etc. So they really shouldn't add much to all this anyway.

Thanks,that sorts out the origins,the initiator !

What about the power of the radiation,the distance and the time been expososed to !?
I mean,i can give practical example but i dont and cannot afford to name the device and/or the manufacturer !

bk

rolion wrote: »

Thanks,that sorts out the origins,the initiator !

What about the power of the radiation,the distance and the time been expososed to !?
I mean,i can give practical example but i dont and cannot afford to name the device and/or the manufacturer !

While the frequencies are unlicensed, anything operating within those frequencies most operate within very well regulated power outputs, etc.

There is no scientific evidence that any device operating in any of these frequencies has any effect on the human body.

Basically every human being is being bombarded by massive amounts of radio waves all day, every day at almost every frequency imaginable, including cosmic radiation. That is what it makes it so laughable when people claim wifi etc. is making them sick. These people have no idea just how much radio noise from so many sources that they are surrounded by.

You forgot to add to you list of frequencies that you are surrounded by:
- Mobile phones in about a dozen different frequency bands
- Saorview DTT
- Satellite TV signals.
- GPS signals
- Radio in multiple different bands, FM, etc.
- So many other things it would take me all day to list.

hick

What about remote TRVs in a 4 bed house for upstairs segregation.

I'm now looking at the Honeywell EVOhome, will put TRV's upstairs in bedrooms and in sitting room (given we have a stove)

Got any better suggestions for 3 zones with water, Netamo looks good but no hot water split out and Hive looks ok but TRVs aren't on the way for a bit yet. OH test crucial here also