Travellers protesting the lodging of refugees in a local authority house(read post 1)

Special Circumstances

dav3 wrote: »

Gardai liaising with EU & international policing bodies to ensure appropriate vetting arrangements put in place for all new arrivals. Refugees will be subject to biometric checks. Including fingerprinting.

All on the website, which I'm sure you've already read. Are you looking for more detailed information? Contact the department.

Are they any improvement on the unaccompanied minors checks that have resulted in some quite bizarre decisions across Europe?

Or is okay because "we are following best international practice"?

Are we leading the way on this or are we following the lead of jurisdictions that have failed to weed out the dubious characters?

Are we being passed on characters from other countries with a "this guy is A1 lads, he's too good for here really, you guys should have him" guarantee?

Widdershins

dav3 wrote: »

Gardai liaising with EU & international policing bodies to ensure appropriate vetting arrangements put in place for all new arrivals. Refugees will be subject to biometric checks. Including fingerprinting.

All on the website, which I'm sure you've already read. Are you looking for more detailed information? Contact the department.

Again they are worthless without a database against which to check them.

I've already pointed out that I wouldn't ask the department in case I found myself speaking to a bad minded person with assumption like the ones yourself and bubblypop make. And you told me you doubt they'd say much anyway so why bother.

dav3

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Are they any improvement on the unaccompanied minors checks that have resulted in some quite bizarre decisions across Europe?

Or is okay because "we are following best international practice"?

Are we leading the way on this or are we following the lead of jurisdictions that have failed to weed out the dubious characters?

Are we being passed on characters from other countries with a "this guy is A1 lads, he's too good for here really, you guys should have him" guarantee?

Here you go, plenty of contact options for you to ask those questions

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Contact_Us

That's if you can crawl out from under your bed in fear of all these genuine refugees coming to get us.

gitzy16v

dav3 wrote: »

Here you go, plenty of contact options for you to ask those questions

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Contact_Us

That's if you can crawl out from under your bed in fear of all these genuine refugees coming to get us.

How would you know anybody is under a bed of fear when you have got your head firmly buried in the sand

pablo128

dav3 wrote: »

Here you go, plenty of contact options for you to ask those questions

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Contact_Us

That's if you can crawl out from under your bed in fear of all these genuine refugees coming to get us.

This is a discussion forum. Stop trying to deflect.

weldoninhio

Widdershins wrote: »

Again they are worthless without a database against which to check them.

I've already pointed out that I wouldn't ask the department in case I found myself speaking to a bad minded person with assumption like the ones yourself and bubblypop make. And you told me you doubt they'd say much anyway so why bother.

But we'll have their fingerprints on file. It's laughable the "vetting" that the bleeding heart brigade think is perfectly alright.

dav3

pablo128 wrote: »

This is a discussion forum. Stop trying to deflect.

Deflecting from what exactly? This thread is about a few travellers having no idea how the housing system works in this country. It has obviously been explained to them and they’re no longer protesting. There's not much reason for this thread to keep going.

Ignoring the usual crowd getting hysterical over typical asinine daily mail headlines is not deflecting. Most of the country ignores them, at least I humour them. They should be grateful.

pablo128

dav3 wrote: »

Deflecting from what exactly? This thread is about a few travellers having no idea how the housing system works in this country. It has obviously been explained to them and they’re no longer protesting. There's not much reason for this thread to keep going.

Ignoring the usual crowd getting hysterical over typical asinine daily mail headlines is not deflecting. Most of the country ignores them, at least I humour them. They should be grateful.

Several posters have expressed concern at the lack of transparency of the vetting procedures for these refugees. You are trying to deflect those questioning with links and dismissals.

If you don't know how the vetting procedures works, that's OK. But don't dismiss other posters concerns.

Dr Jakub

dav3 wrote: »

They're refugees, whether some of them are highly educated or not, doesn't matter.

If liaising with EU and international policing bodies isn't enough information for you, you can always contact the Department of Justice. I doubt they'll expand on the information already given out on their vetting procedure, but give it a try anyway.

So how many 'Syrian teenagers' do you think we'll be getting?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422000/Just-old-think-migrant-children-Alarming-pictures-shed-light-growing-scandal-amid-asylum-crisis.html

Jimmy Garlic

Dr Jakub wrote: »

So how many 'Syrian teenagers' do you think we'll be getting?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422000/Just-old-think-migrant-children-Alarming-pictures-shed-light-growing-scandal-amid-asylum-crisis.html

Wouldn't believe a word the government tells us. We'll surely end up with a couple of 6 foot 2 ''children'' with well established beards and gold teeth.. All the other EU lapdog countries have gotten them, don't see why we will be any different.

Special Circumstances

rawn wrote: »

Just because you're highly educated and can help in a crisis doesn't mean you have to.

Are you saying that just because we could transport these guys who have no interest in contributing to a stable and moderate future for Syria all the way over here and bump them to the top of a list ahead of people waiting for years just because we could ... that we absolutely must ? But they have no moral obligation to use their skills help their own?

A lot of double think going on here to justify things. As usual.



I think it's shocking that people who claim to want to help the neediest cases don't want to see proper vetting at all. They actually don't care that genuine cases are passed over in favour of chancers and some fairly despicable people judging by the antics in some of the German shelters.
Ah but shur we'll be following "best international practice" what could possibly go wrong ha?

darkpagandeath

rawn wrote: »

You're speaking as if we're stealing their highly educated people! Just because you're highly educated and can help in a crisis doesn't mean you have to. Maybe they're scared for their own lives and their families and would rather get the hell out of dodge than work under missile fire, I know I would.

How would you go about verifying their education. Hear loads about engineers.

rawn

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How would you go about verifying their education. Hear loads about engineers.

I'm not the one claiming they're highly educated. I also never stated that I wouldn't vet them? Of COURSE proper vetting procedures need to be in place. I was merely pointing out earlier that we are not forcing highly educated people to come here as someone suggested.

Special Circumstances

So we've had people admit that
the Mediterranean/calais migrants are a completely different kettle of fish to Syrian families
AND
that it's not highly educated, good standard of English Syrians that we are bringing over and bumping to the top of the housing list (to do whatever they want for as long as they want at our expense as bublepop wants)

Refreshing to see people who can see the reality of the situation and don't have to stay blindly "On Message" no matter what.


Is there anyone on this thread who still believes the guff about the doctors architects engineers, highly educated, good standard of English refugees that are coming to enrich us??

Anyone want to correct rawn on this possible faux pas?


Anyone still believe we should be extending the same courtesies to economic migrants?

Anyone still believe that the vetting, of unaccompanied minors in particular, is anything but a farce that allows in chancers ahead of needy cases?

Dave_The_Sheep

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Because my dad was explaining to him that the pain was in "the front of his foot" and this moron kept saying "ah ankle".

"No, front of foot, by toes"

"Okay okay ankle. Likely sprain"

I despair.

Widdershins wrote: »

I'd say if you're trying to communicate your symptoms in detail and you don't feel like you're being understood,and then trying to get important information about your diagnosis is the other problem

Plenty of awful doctors around as it is but it is really important to be able to communicate clearly with one.

A few points. The main one being that you (completely) missed my point. I've heard of symtoms described to a doctor whose first language is English (THEY WERE IRISH) and they've still completely misdiagnosed what was going on. Doctors misdiagnose. Such is life.

The fact they're not the doctor you'd like doesn't really count.

I'm sure that doctor you refer to ****ed up. Or maybe they didn't. Maybe the actual pain in yer da's foot was actually originating in a problem in his heel. I don't know. I'm not a doctor, neither are you.

The nationality of your doctor isn't in any way related to his knowledge and how it affects your diagnosis.

But it's easy to blame the mis-diagnosis on him/her being a foreigner as opposed to him simply making a mistake, or maybe actually being right all along and being misunderstood. Or just being wrong, it happens.

Old Bill

The Travellers are right we should be looking after our own people first.

Widdershins

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

A few points. The main one being that you (completely) missed my point. I've heard of symtoms described to a doctor whose first language is English (THEY WERE IRISH) and they've still completely misdiagnosed what was going on. Doctors misdiagnose. Such is life.

The fact they're not the doctor you'd like doesn't really count.

I'm sure that doctor you refer to ****ed up. Or maybe they didn't. Maybe the actual pain in yer da's foot was actually originating in a problem in his heel. I don't know. I'm not a doctor, neither are you.

The nationality of your doctor isn't in any way related to his knowledge and how it affects your diagnosis.

But it's easy to blame the mis-diagnosis on him/her being a foreigner as opposed to him simply making a mistake, or maybe actually being right all along and being misunderstood. Or just being wrong, it happens.

No more than you've missed mine! There should be no barrier to clear communication between patient and doctor. It's that simple. It should be a patients right to have a doctor explain the diagnosis and ask questions clearly. Regardless of nationality.
If that poster's father's problem really was originating from the part of the foot that the doctor kept talking about the doctor should have been capable of explaining that because as it is it's a reasonable to think there was a serious misunderstanding. The patient should never have to leave feeling confused and making guesses like ''ok maybe the doctor really meant x y or z''

It's basic sense. Plenty of doctors of various nationalities can communicate clearly and it should be a requirement for all of them.

Dave_The_Sheep

So follow your reasoning to it's logical conclusion. When you get there let me know.

Widdershins

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

So follow your reasoning to it's logical conclusion. When you get there let me know.

That is the logical conclusion! any job that involves face to face interaction with the client requires adequate communication skills.

handlemaster

Old Bill wrote: »

The Travellers are right we should be looking after our own people first.

On that bases no country would ever help people suffering in another country. Travellers only help themselves havent met a working traveller yet.

BalcombeSt4

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

September 10th, 2001 - NYC.

"How is Al Qaeda a threat to the USA mainland ? Have Al Qaeda attacked the USA mainland?"

Remove head from sand please.

Yes, they attacked the US mainland February 1993 killing 6 & injuring over 1000 people. Black September also tried to bomb NY in 1973.

Sand remove man your needed again.

Dave_The_Sheep

Widdershins wrote: »

That is the logical conclusion! any job that involves face to face interaction with the client requires adequate communication skills.

The logical conclusion of that line of thought is that no foreigners* without-English-speaking skills should be allowed work as a (in this case) doctor in Ireland.

Regardless of their doctor-skills, their language ability is more important.

... Okay. In other words, **** off foreign doctors. Not exactly subtle.

*If they were Irish they would be fluent.

pablo128

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

The logical conclusion of that line of thought is that no foreigners* without-English-speaking skills should be allowed work as a (in this case) doctor in Ireland.

Regardless of their doctor-skills, their language ability is more important.

... Okay. In other words, **** off foreign doctors. Not exactly subtle.

*If they were Irish they would be fluent.

If you want to work in Sweden, you must have a certain level of their language. I think they have a test you must pass.

Something like that would be welcome here.

IvyTheTerrible

I thought foreign doctors already had to have a language skills assessment before being allowed to practice in Ireland?

IvyTheTerrible

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

The logical conclusion of that line of thought is that no foreigners* without-English-speaking skills should be allowed work as a (in this case) doctor in Ireland.

Regardless of their doctor-skills, their language ability is more important.

... Okay. In other words, **** off foreign doctors. Not exactly subtle.

*If they were Irish they would be fluent.

Language skills aren't more important but they are very important in a job where communication is vital.

NoFreeGaffs

rawn wrote: »

You're speaking as if we're stealing their highly educated people! Just because you're highly educated and can help in a crisis doesn't mean you have to. Maybe they're scared for their own lives and their families and would rather get the hell out of dodge than work under missile fire, I know I would.

These people are already in Greece and Italy. What missiles are they fleeing?

Widdershins

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

The logical conclusion of that line of thought is that no foreigners* without-English-speaking skills should be allowed work as a (in this case) doctor in Ireland.

Regardless of their doctor-skills, their language ability is more important.

... Okay. In other words, **** off foreign doctors. Not exactly subtle.

*If they were Irish they would be fluent.

I'm sure I must be misunderstanding you somewhere along the line. Please, let's clarify this!

When you say ''work in a hospital'' I am trying to think of a job in a hospital that can be done without ever needing to speak English, unless there's a translator.

Are you suggesting that a doctor, to quote you, WITHOUT ENGLISH SPEAKING SKILLS, could deal with patients with only English speaking skills in Ireland or anywhere else?

OR are you saying that a doctor who only speaks, for example, French and Italian, would ONLY be dealing with French or Italian speaking patients, a doctor who only speaks Urdu would ONLY be dealing with patients with Urdu?

The former makes no sense whatsoever as there's no way doctor and patient could communicate, and in many cases doctor and staff couldn't communicate either unless the staff happen to speak the doctor's language.

Please explain how that would work? How on Earth could the best doctor in the world put his/her skills to use if they can't ask detailed/any questions to help them form a diagnosis, if they can't explain a prognosis, if they can't tell the patient about treatment? It was be a complete waste of skill. Are they supposed to MIME ''where is the pain?'' and ''do you have any of the following symptoms?''

How about ''Please open your mouth and tilt your head back, I need to check your tonsils'' or '' you need to have a biopsy done''? or ''Is there any pain during a bowel movement'' or ''how many times have you vomited today'' or ''please collect a urine sample in this container'' ?
The mind boggles.

If it's the LATTER example then I'm sure that is very good thing to have a doctor who can communicate in non English speakers' first / only languages.

Special Circumstances

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm sure I must be misunderstanding you somewhere along the line. Please, let's clarify this!

When you say ''work in a hospital'' I am trying to think of a job in a hospital that can be done without ever needing to speak English, unless there's a translator.

Are you suggesting that a doctor, to quote you, WITHOUT ENGLISH SPEAKING SKILLS, could deal with patients with only English speaking skills in Ireland or anywhere else?

OR are you saying that a doctor who only speaks, for example, French and Italian, would ONLY be dealing with French or Italian speaking patients, a doctor who only speaks Urdu would ONLY be dealing with patients with Urdu?

The former makes no sense whatsoever as there's no way doctor and patient could communicate, and in many cases doctor and staff couldn't communicate either unless the staff happen to speak the doctor's language.

Please explain how that would work? How on Earth could the best doctor in the world put his/her skills to use if they can't ask detailed/any questions to help them form a diagnosis, if they can't explain a prognosis, if they can't tell the patient about treatment? It was be a complete waste of skill. Are they supposed to MIME ''where is the pain?'' and ''do you have any of the following symptoms?''

How about ''Please open your mouth and tilt your head back, I need to check your tonsils'' or '' you need to have a biopsy done''? or ''Is there any pain during a bowel movement'' or ''how many times have you vomited today'' or ''please collect a urine sample in this container'' ?
The mind boggles.

If it's the LATTER example then I'm sure that is very good thing to have a doctor who can communicate in non English speakers' first / only languages.

Check your privilege like, the person on the street should be prepared to learn any language (except the oppressive and discriminatory English language) to communicate in their doctors chosen language for the day.
It would be politically incorrect not to.


That's what I'm taking from Dave the sheep's spiel anyway. I do enjoy a game of charades but I don't think it has any place in a doctors office personally.

Widdershins

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Check your privilege like, the person on the street should be prepared to learn any language (except the oppressive and discriminatory English language) to communicate in their doctors chosen language for the day.
It would be politically incorrect not to.


That's what I'm taking from Dave the sheep's spiel anyway. I do enjoy a game of charades but I don't think it has any place in a doctors office personally.

Can you imagine all of the times when a Dr. has to convey much more detailed information? It's the maddest thing I've ever heard, or close enough..and I doubt any doctor would want to be in that position, either..

sondagefaux

Widdershins wrote: »

sondagefaux wrote: »

Thought you were leaving this thread? Liar.

I unfollowed the thread when I got tired of your perverse manipulation tactics. I didn't swear a solemn oath never to comment again. The thread moved on so I returned. It's not your place to remark on when I come and go. And I'm reporting your comment.

Report away little man...

sondagefaux

NoFreeGaffs wrote: »

rawn wrote: »

You're speaking as if we're stealing their highly educated people! Just because you're highly educated and can help in a crisis doesn't mean you have to. Maybe they're scared for their own lives and their families and would rather get the hell out of dodge than work under missile fire, I know I would.

These people are already in Greece and Italy. What missiles are they fleeing?

A far-right mob armed with Molotov cocktails and rocks has attacked a refugee camp where hundreds of men, women and children are being held in Greece.
A Syrian asylum seeker was seriously injured in the violence at Souda on the island of Chios, where two volunteers were also beaten by a 30-strong gang as fires swept through the tents, destroying shelters used by 100 people.
Footage showed United Nations-branded tents burning as refugees attempted to stamp out flames in the darkness, with masked men armed with baseball bats prowling the camp.
Boulders and firebombs were launched from a medieval fort that overlooks the camp, police said. One rock seriously injured a Syrian man when it was thrown from above. 
The UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) said there had been several other violent incidents earlier in the week, leaving residents too scared to return to the site as winter temperatures plummet.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-latest-greek-islands-chios-camp-attack-far-right-firebombed-molotov-cocktails-rocks-a7425386.html

jmayo

Interesting reading.
There are over 4,000 "refugees" spread over three camps.
According to 2011 census the population of the island is about 52,000.
They now have a "refugee" for every 13 natives.

The report also states a Syrian was injured, but the real interesting knugget that the poster above conveniently left out is found later.
It states that there have been clashes between migrants, local residents and the police and migrants/refugees broke into shops and stole stuff.


37 people were detained including three Algerian "teenagers" (could be pension age for all we know) and an Iraqi man in his 40s.

WTF are Algerians doing in a refugee camp in Greece ?

Don't they know that Libya is next door to them and the Irish Navy are just waiting offshore to give them a lift to Italy. :rolleyes:

gitzy16v

sondagefaux wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-latest-greek-islands-chios-camp-attack-far-right-firebombed-molotov-cocktails-rocks-a7425386.html

More propaganda

conorhal

sondagefaux wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-latest-greek-islands-chios-camp-attack-far-right-firebombed-molotov-cocktails-rocks-a7425386.html

The refugees are burning down more camps without the help of Nazi loopers in all fairness, they don't seem to need much help or much of an excuse...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632965/Refugee-camp-Dusseldorf-burned-migrants-furious-not-received-wake-Ramadan-breakfast.html

During this time of Ramadan, there was one group that wanted to strictly observe the fast, and another that insisted on the usual timetables and usual servings,' said Ralf Herrenbrueck, spokesman for the prosecutors service.'This had led on several occasions to disputes and altercations with officials of the German Red Cross,' he said in an interview with public broadcaster WDR.




Sometimes even over a lack of sweeties!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3960366/Migrants-burned-refugee-centre-causing-10-million-damage-wasn-t-Nutella-Gummibears-chocolate-German-Red-Cross-worker-reveals.html



Newspaper Das Bild has revealed that groups were angry when chocolate spread and confectionery were not available after dark, despite it being available during the day.
Meals at the centre had been cancelled because of Ramadan, when Muslims do not eat during daylight hours.
Protesters shouted: 'There isn't enough Nutella, Gummibears and chocolate', the newspaper reports.





Well there's a rallying cry against oppression and a reasonable human rights demand if ever I saw one! It's no wonder people in europe are reluctant to accept the 'gratitude' of such refugees who seem to feel entitled to behave like dangerous oversized todlers if we don't accomodate their beliefs and demands with sufficient haste.....

Boom_Bap

sondagefaux wrote: »

Report away little man...

sondagefaux - Don't post in this thread again please. You are not adding to the discussion and taking the thread off topic.

foggy_lad

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I thought foreign doctors already had to have a language skills assessment before being allowed to practice in Ireland?

Oh yes they do a test in front of well educated doctors with perfect hearing and communication skills who will of course be able to work out the words and phrases they don't fully understand.

They should be tested with older half deaf people who are going a bit scatty and only went to national school.

NoFreeGaffs

sondagefaux wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-latest-greek-islands-chios-camp-attack-far-right-firebombed-molotov-cocktails-rocks-a7425386.html

Sounds like the lads started antagonising the locals the night before.

Violent, destructive riots that erupted late on Wednesday night at the Souda migrant camp on Chios island resulted in several arrests of migrants.

According to local residents who spoke on ERT Aegean television station, the incident started around 11:00 pm after a group of migrants started shooting fireworks in the sky and at surrounding houses.

Several cars and stores surrounding the camp were damaged, while tents inside the camp were burnt, according to ERT Aegean.

Riot police arrived on the spot and blocked the surrounding streets to contain the migrants. Police used tear gas and stun grenades to disperse rioters, who ran back inside the camp.

The riots stopped around 3:00 am on Thursday. Police made several arrests after entering the camp, but the exact number has not been announced.

- See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016/11/17/violent-riots-at-migrant-camp-on-chios-greece-video/#sthash.7Q448e0D.dpuf