Boiler Won't Fire Up

MuddyDog · 25-11-2016 12:23pm #1

See attached pics of boiler and tank/controls.

Basically, when I turn on the heat the boiler tries to fire up but doesn't spark. So when I'm standing beside the boiler I can hear it rumbling but every 10-15 secs or so I can hear it attempting to spark and ignite but it fails and just continues until I turn the heat off at the controls.

Tank is 35% full of oil. Any ways I can diagnose what might be the problem better?

youtheman · 25-11-2016 1:11pm

Did you try push the 'Burner Reset Pushbutton'. My brother has a similar boiler in his house. His was giving problems. So I tried to bleed the diesel supply just to make sue I wasn't air-locked I saw the reset button. Didn't know what it was, but curiosity got the better of me. Pressed it and 'he-presto' off she went.

MuddyDog · 25-11-2016 1:26pm

youtheman wrote: »

Did you try push the 'Burner Reset Pushbutton'. My brother has a similar boiler in his house. His was giving problems. So I tried to bleed the diesel supply just to make sue I wasn't air-locked I saw the reset button. Didn't know what it was, but curiosity got the better of me. Pressed it and 'he-presto' off she went.

When I press that big red button in, it does nothing.

MuddyDog · 25-11-2016 1:34pm

Found somewhere else online that mentioned cleaning the photocell/eye thing. So I pulled that out and cleaned it and it's firing up again!

K.Flyer · 25-11-2016 3:01pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Found somewhere else online that mentioned cleaning the photocell/eye thing. So I pulled that out and cleaned it and it's firing up again!

If it was quite dirty or covered in soot, it may be overdue a good service.

jimf · 25-11-2016 9:40pm

take k flyers advice above you have only fixed the problem for now not the cause

Wearb · 25-11-2016 9:47pm

Don't know what you're worrying about Jim. I would guess that it won't give any trouble until this day next month ;(

jimf · 25-11-2016 9:55pm

jesus its only a month away hope you have the homebrew on the boil

if it tastes as good as the bottle i DIDNT get last year it will be ok

Wearb · 25-11-2016 10:11pm

How the fcuk do you remember those things Jim. I can't remember anything anymore. I'll have to stop telling lies. Getting caught all the time.

Anyway, about 1/3 of it left. Never thought to make more. Still, if I'm greedy it will do fine.

jimf · 25-11-2016 11:26pm

its easy to remember somebody who promises you something 2 years in a row and doesn't deliver

us limerick boys are bad baskards that way

Wearb · 26-11-2016 12:20am

I think I have a receipt for it somewhere saying you got it. .................Now that i think of it...did you not publicly tell Scudo that you got it. Sure that's as good as any receipt.

jimf · 26-11-2016 1:12am

don't u mean tom

JamesM · 26-11-2016 4:20pm

jimf wrote: »

don't u mean tom

I still have my bottle from "Tom" I'm afraid of it, so I've kept it hidden away. :eek:

Muddy Dog, Take the advice above. You need a good service engineer who knows Firebird boilers - that model can be tricky.
Jim.

Wearb · 26-11-2016 5:22pm

I just looked at op's photos.........such a place to put the room stat:eek: Dead zone when all doors closed, draughts when door opened, maybe also influenced by heat from hot press. Lazy.

Wearb · 26-11-2016 5:25pm

jimf wrote: »

don't u mean tom

Oh yeah Tom44 or something like that.

JamesM wrote: »

I still have my bottle from "Tom" I'm afraid of it, so I've kept it hidden away. :eek:

I would too. Could be classed as hazardous waste. Tom/S would drink any sort of sh1te

JamesM · 27-11-2016 11:12am

Wearb wrote: »

I just looked at op's photos.........such a place to put the room stat:eek: Dead zone when all doors closed, draughts when door opened, maybe also influenced by heat from hot press. Lazy.

Easy to wire up though

:D:D

Wearb · 27-11-2016 4:30pm

JamesM wrote: »

Easy to wire up though :D:D

Temptation would surely be there alright. Just drill a couple of holes out from the hot press wall and "there you go missus"

MuddyDog · 04-12-2016 1:29pm

Soooo boiler stopped working again yesterday. Checked the Photocell and it was as clean as a whistle. It won't even try and fire up now though. It just stays quiet. Any ideas on possible causes of this?

Wearb · 04-12-2016 1:45pm

As was said earlier in the thread, it probably needs a service. Only thing to try for the moment is the High limit trip beside the boiler stat.
Its probably going to keep giving trouble until serviced.

MuddyDog · 04-12-2016 1:46pm

Wearb wrote: »

As was said earlier in the thread, it probably needs a service. Only thing to try for the moment is the High limit trip beside the boiler stat.
Its probably going to keep giving trouble until serviced.

Servicer coming tomorrow. Where is this high limit trip exactly?

Wearb · 04-12-2016 1:53pm

Post a pic of the boiler stat taking in a bit of area around it

agusta · 04-12-2016 4:13pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Soooo boiler stopped working again yesterday. Checked the Photocell and it was as clean as a whistle. It won't even try and fire up now though. It just stays quiet. Any ideas on possible causes of this?

Does the motor just run continuously or does nothing at all happen?

MuddyDog · 04-12-2016 4:20pm

agusta wrote: »

Does the motor just run continuously or does nothing at all happen

Nothing at all.

MuddyDog · 04-12-2016 9:11pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Nothing at all.

Pics attached.

Dtp1979 · 04-12-2016 9:20pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Pics attached.

Screw off the black cap on the white box. Press the little button. See if the boiler fires

MuddyDog · 04-12-2016 9:33pm

Went and pressed the buttom. Heard a click but nothing happened. Then came
in and turned it on inside (it was off first time) and prrssed it again and it
fired up right away.

What does the button do?

Dtp1979 · 04-12-2016 9:34pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Went and pressed the buttom. Heard a click but nothing happened. Then came
in and turned it on inside (it was off first time) and prrssed it again and it
fired up right away.

What does the button do?

It's an overheat stat. Your pump may be gone or stat turned too high.

MuddyDog · 04-12-2016 9:42pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

It's an overheat stat. Your pump may be gone or stat turned too high.

Is that the temp gauge on the white box? I turned it down a little bit there now as well.

What's the cost of a new pump roughly?

Dtp1979 · 04-12-2016 9:43pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Is that the temp gauge on the white box? I turned it down a little bit there now as well.

What's the cost of a new pump roughly?

Pump on its own is around 100

MuddyDog · 04-12-2016 9:51pm

Thanks DTP. Getting it serviced tomorrow anyway. How much is a service usually anyway??!? Should've asked before I got him out but was in a rush.

Dtp1979 · 04-12-2016 9:52pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Thanks DTP. Getting it serviced tomorrow anyway. How much is a service usually anyway??!? Should've asked before I got him out but was in a rush.

Between 80-120. You might need your oil hose changed too.
Make sure you get a printout of the fluegas analysis. A boiler cannot be serviced without this

JamesM · 04-12-2016 9:54pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

It's an overheat stat. Your pump may be gone or stat turned too high.

If everything is working ok now, the stat was probably too high.
Jim

Dtp1979 · 04-12-2016 9:59pm

JamesM wrote: »

If everything is working ok now, the stat was probably too high.
Jim

True, but when I responded the poster had just fired the boiler, so I was almost waiting for the "it's happened again"

JamesM · 04-12-2016 10:01pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

True, but when I responded the poster had just fired the boiler, so I was almost waiting for the "it's happened again"

The "First Responder" has to cover every eventuality

MuddyDog · 04-12-2016 10:04pm

Is it a case that once the overheating stat 'trips' that the boiler can't fire until that button is pressed?

Wearb · 04-12-2016 10:11pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Is it a case that once the overheating stat 'trips' that the boiler can't fire until that button is pressed?

Yes. Tell service guy that it tripped on hi limit stat.

wing52 · 04-12-2016 11:59pm

Just thinking out loud here but if the time clock/thermostat turned off while the burner was firing would it cause a nuisance tripout? Instead of a real problem,like a dying pump.

Wearb · 05-12-2016 12:35am

wing52 wrote: »

Just thinking out loud here but if the time clock/thermostat turned off while the burner was firing would it cause a nuisance tripout? Instead of a real problem,like a dying pump.

On a system that was prone to such a problem, yes.
But I would use the word "could" instead of "would". It would not be a case of it happening when the burner was firing at any period of its cycle, it would be dependent on it happening when the boiler was close to the top of its cycle. Pump over run should be provided where this is a problem.

MuddyDog · 11-12-2016 8:26pm

Got it serviced. Was mostly just dirty inside. Running fine now.

Flu gas analysis print out has the below figures. Are these good figures?

o2 % = 5.1
CO (ppm) = 7
co2 % = 11.7
Ratio = 0.0001
Pressure (mBar) = 0.04
Temp net (c) = 105
Temp flue (c) = 115
Eff net % = 95.5
XS Air % = 32.4

Dtp1979 · 11-12-2016 8:33pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Got it serviced. Was mostly just dirty inside. Running fine now.

Flu gas analysis print out has the below figures. Are these good figures?

o2 % = 5.1
CO (ppm) = 7
co2 % = 11.7
Ratio = 0.0001
Pressure (mBar) = 0.04
Temp net (c) = 105
Temp flue (c) = 115
Eff net % = 95.5
XS Air % = 32.4

They're alright, not ideal. Looks like they didn't leave the boiler to fire for too long before putting the analyser in

MuddyDog · 11-12-2016 8:37pm

Yeah he said ideally he should be leaving it 15 minutes but he thought it should be fine.

agusta · 11-12-2016 9:43pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Got it serviced. Was mostly just dirty inside. Running fine now.

Flu gas analysis print out has the below figures. Are these good figures?

o2 % = 5.1
CO (ppm) = 7
co2 % = 11.7
Ratio = 0.0001
Pressure (mBar) = 0.04
Temp net (c) = 105
Temp flue (c) = 115
Eff net % = 95.5
XS Air % = 32.4[/QUO
The readings are ok. i would rather if the co2 was set down near 11.3 and the XS air set abit higher.Also the temperature of the flue appears to be a little bit high for some reason.

Wearb · 11-12-2016 10:09pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Got it serviced. Was mostly just dirty inside. Running fine now.

Flu gas analysis print out has the below figures. Are these good figures?

o2 % = 5.1
CO (ppm) = 7
co2 % = 11.7
Ratio = 0.0001
Pressure (mBar) = 0.04
Temp net (c) = 105
Temp flue (c) = 115
Eff net % = 95.5
XS Air % = 32.4

Thats not too bad at all. Any idea of the nozzle size and pump pressure?

jimf · 11-12-2016 10:13pm

it may be a se boiler dec in that case its too low if its a he boiler it would be bordering on the high side

unless its a silverpac from firebird which can be as high as 130

Wearb · 11-12-2016 10:25pm

jimf wrote: »

it may be a se boiler dec in that case its too low if its a he boiler it would be bordering on the high side

unless its a silverpac from firebird which can be as high as 130

Yep a silver. see first picture in first post.

Dtp1979 · 11-12-2016 10:34pm

Dunno I just assumed it was SE. Jaysus 130 on a HE boiler is high isn't it

jimf · 11-12-2016 10:36pm

didn't look at that wb readings are fine then

but I would agree with agusta have the co2 a bit nearer 11.3

Wearb · 11-12-2016 10:36pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Dunno I just assumed it was SE. Jaysus 130 on a HE boiler is high isn't it

They are high, but that's a bit higher. Says 85-90 in mi's.

Dtp1979 · 11-12-2016 10:39pm

Just shows you the importance of good baffles.
Was at a grant multipass the other day. The right hand baffle had collapsed into the combustion chamber. Flue temp was nearing 500. Everything was fine in the readings

Wearb · 11-12-2016 10:41pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Just shows you the importance of good baffles.
Was at a grant multipass the other day. The right hand baffle had collapsed into the combustion chamber. Flue temp was nearing 500. Everything was fine in the readings

Nice light coating of soot will rise it right up too.

jimf · 11-12-2016 10:42pm

the silver range run a lot higher in temp up to 135 is kinda normal for them

less turbulators in the secondary heat exchanger allow more flu gasses to escape unrestricted

firebird in their wisdom send the enviromax mi out with this boiler as everything else nozzle etc is the same

a bit confusing I think why don't they issue a separate booklet for this boiler

Boiler Won't Fire Up

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