I'm sick to death of being taxed to death !

Skommando

BoatMad wrote: »

Not sure what Quinn and Drumm etc have to do with it, They incurred a business failure, thats not a crime in itself, the state decided then to guarantee these banks, hence the debt . Its not an offence to have a business fail

No one said it was, but if my business fails, why should you be left paying my debts, while I still remain very wealthy by comparison ?

K-9

Mod:
Thread moved to politics.

weldoninhio

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Persumably you moved out of a council house to buy a house in Dublin to make a better life for yourself.

I'm sure he did, and that's the point!! Is it a better life???

FreudianSlippers

FortySeven wrote: »

I don't believe I said it was. The government clearly to blame here, bondholders just did what anyone would do.

Of course, can we really blame the government listening to the scaremongering of the banks at the time?

The sky is falling!

That's a somewhat revisionist view of what occurred.

AIB and BoI were going to be bailed out as the cornerstone "too big to fail" banks; it was the Anglo who came to the government with (what we now know to be falsified) accounts to ensure that the government would have to nationalise the bank.

It was never envisaged at the start that there would be a blanket guarantee - something I think should be pointed out in terms of Lenihan's legacy was that he fought against the blanket guarantee.

FortySeven

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

That's a somewhat revisionist view of what occurred.

AIB and BoI were going to be bailed out as the cornerstone "too big to fail" banks; it was the Anglo who came to the government with (what we now know to be falsified) accounts to ensure that the government would have to nationalise the bank.

It was never envisaged at the start that there would be a blanket guarantee - something I think should be pointed out in terms of Lenihan's legacy was that he fought against the blanket guarantee.

I remember differently, was there not a cabal of bankers summoned to Leinster house on the eve of the blanket guarentee?

BoatMad

Skommando wrote: »

No one said it was, but if my business fails, why should you be left paying my debts, while I still remain very wealthy by comparison ?

because thats the whole point of limited liability, The seller makes a conscious decision to sell on credit to gain business and with that goes the risk that he or she might not get paid, as for banks , the issue was the decision to view a bank failure as a systemic risk and hence , incorrectly in my view , to blame all them out, IN reality anglo should have been let fail , or at the very least , do what spain did and turn to the ECB and say " your problem "

holyhead

I'm torn in terms of taxation. On the one hand I think every citizen is entitled to
1. free healthcare, (the cost of health insurance is prohibitive and the need for it to exist points to a two tier health system)
2. free education, (an essential tool to round off people as individuals plus equip them to earn money)
3. An affordable place to live, (people sleeping on streets or living out of hotels is unacceptable).
4. free old folks care, (costs loved ones close to a 1'000 a week for private nursing which is loony)
5. free burial. (nobody should have to worry about the cost of a dignified burial for a loved one)

I think that is the minimal every citizen should be entitled to. On the other hand their is a terrible entitlement attitude in this country. There is an expectation of getting from the state without giving anything tangible back to the state.

I think unless you are physically disabled or mentally unwell any state money you recieve should be on the back of what you give to society ie volunteering etc. You do nothing you get nothing. As for the five principles I outline at the top they are all predicated on having been a taxpayer at some point, exception being education, or if in receipt of social welfare having tangibly contributed to the state in return.

As I have stated before inheritance tax is a load of bs and should be scrapped. House tax should be scrapped unless it pays for our waste disposal. I am in favour of water tax. You use you pay. Only fair. Less likely to waste what you pay for. The leaks argument is valid to a point but money is needed to fix leaks. We also need a more efficient, effective public service. The level of money wasted by the state is shocking.

I would happily pay more tax if the above five principles were in place.

BrianG23

Really annoying the **** out of me. 3 years of college and barely any employers would look at the degree, thousands gone into it and the amount of time and effort and at the end of it, I get an internship for ~30000 quid, nice I thought...I got lucky, finally!

8-10lk of which is gone in taxes overall. What the hell was the point? If a third of it is taxed away! i'd almost be better off cheating the system entirely!

Now after my intership ended I went back for a part time masters because I want to advance as far as I can. So I sent CV's around, no replies for months...

Finally I thought, i'm 24...i've paid decent taxes over my life, i'm showing an interest in advancing myself and looking for work, surely I can get on welfare this time? No they said. No social welfare for me. How dare I do a masters and expect anything, keep looking for a job they said.

I'll pay full adult transport prices and get taxed like an adult as soon as I work but until i'm 25 i'm a dependent child in social welfare's eyes. I don't want money from my parents! Its their money not mine! Unless I move out and pay the crazy rent in Dublin. This country is a joke!


I feel like all my efforts are wasted when people can just roll over on the dole and I can't even get a cent, since you know, I live at home...with my parents. And since they earned money just over the limit for the last few years(And recently mam is made redundant), sure, they can pay for me, i'm still a kid I guess.

So here I am, about to start a full time software engineering job while trying a masters, i'll be taxed like hell again, and when I earn more i'll get taxed even more.

How do you people put up with this? Living in Ireland! All I do is look at other countries and how much more money I can make there. Middle class work their *** off and get nothing in return here.

Am I being entitled? Living up to my millennial birthright? Are other countries just the same and I am misinformed? My parents constantly stressing over money and then being told I can't even get social welfare because of their efforts in life is a horrible joke. Its almost as if one of them should never have start working in the first place. Then the whole family could have been on the dole from as soon as we hit 18.

BoJack Horseman

BrianG23 wrote: »

How do you people put up with this? Living in Ireland! All I do is look at other countries and how much more money I can make there

Well, you are a post-grad software engineer..... so go for it!
The world isn't going to beat down your door, you have to get out there and take the opportunities.

You have no spouse/kids/mortage tying you down.

Just do your research on nations that don't have income tax and the world is your oyster.

cala

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

It's simple when you consider that I, for example, after giving up my job, got 390 per week and my council house cost me 60 a week instead of 120 a week when I was working (job on the doorstep) and earning - wait - 450.

These days are long gone, moved to Dublin, now it's more like:

Working fooking hard in a very stressful job 52+ hours a week
Wife working full time
2 kids in schools
185k left on the mortgage
1.5 k property management fees
Sitting in Dublin traffic for 2hrs a day going to work 10 km's
Sitting in Dublin traffic whenever I have to do anything

... and have less disposable income than when I was on the dole

It could not be possible for rent to increase so inproprotionally to your income re' rent in a council house, so how much of the rest of your statements are untrue???

RayCun

BrianG23 wrote: »

Finally I thought, i'm 24...i've paid decent taxes over my life.

Hang on, you're 24, you've been in full time education for 18 years and you have paid income tax for two? And you are saying that you have paid decent taxes over your life.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the state funds your education, but if you think you have been anything other than a massive drain on the state (so far!) then yes, you are an incredibly entitled millenial!

listermint

BrianG23 wrote: »

Really annoying the **** out of me. 3 years of college and barely any employers would look at the degree, thousands gone into it and the amount of time and effort and at the end of it, I get an internship for ~30000 quid, nice I thought...I got lucky, finally!

8-10lk of which is gone in taxes overall. What the hell was the point? If a third of it is taxed away! i'd almost be better off cheating the system entirely!

Now after my intership ended I went back for a part time masters because I want to advance as far as I can. So I sent CV's around, no replies for months...

Finally I thought, i'm 24...i've paid decent taxes over my life, i'm showing an interest in advancing myself and looking for work, surely I can get on welfare this time? No they said. No social welfare for me. How dare I do a masters and expect anything, keep looking for a job they said.

I'll pay full adult transport prices and get taxed like an adult as soon as I work but until i'm 25 i'm a dependent child in social welfare's eyes. I don't want money from my parents! Its their money not mine! Unless I move out and pay the crazy rent in Dublin. This country is a joke!


I feel like all my efforts are wasted when people can just roll over on the dole and I can't even get a cent, since you know, I live at home...with my parents. And since they earned money just over the limit for the last few years(And recently mam is made redundant), sure, they can pay for me, i'm still a kid I guess.

So here I am, about to start a full time software engineering job while trying a masters, i'll be taxed like hell again, and when I earn more i'll get taxed even more.

How do you people put up with this? Living in Ireland! All I do is look at other countries and how much more money I can make there. Middle class work their *** off and get nothing in return here.

Am I being entitled? Living up to my millennial birthright? Are other countries just the same and I am misinformed? My parents constantly stressing over money and then being told I can't even get social welfare because of their efforts in life is a horrible joke. Its almost as if one of them should never have start working in the first place. Then the whole family could have been on the dole from as soon as we hit 18.

Can you explain in detail why you decided to not work while doing a masters.

Frankly masters means very little on a cv to me I read them all the time I'm looking for continous employment and practical experience.

If you were really interested in bettering yourself you'd get better advice. The advantages you perceive to get by doing the masters are taken away by your removing yourself from the workforce and fully into acadamia.

People who have degrees and 2 3 years experience will already be a step up on you.

The_Captain

listermint wrote: »

Can you explain in detail why you decided to not work while doing a masters.

Frankly masters means very little on a cv to me I read them all the time I'm looking for continous employment and practical experience.

If you were really interested in bettering yourself you'd get better advice. The advantages you perceive to get by doing the masters are taken away by your removing yourself from the workforce and fully into acadamia.

People who have degrees and 2 3 years experience will already be a step up on you.

A masters and 3 years experience is a step up from a degree and four years experience, so any advantage from not doing it is quickly lost

listermint

The_Captain wrote: »

A masters and 3 years experience is a step up from a degree and four years experience, so any advantage from not doing it is quickly lost

Your negating the fact they're removing themselves completely from the work force all advantages are lost completely. That's the reality come interview time.

Candidate A. 5 years continously employed part time..masters.

Candidate B 1 years employment full time. Masters.


A... It appears that you have practical experience and a master oh and 5 years continuous salary increments



Its a no brainer.

And certainly for me when I'm conducting an interview

lawred2

You really paying 10k taxes on 30k?

Sounds high to me

Yourself isit

lawred2 wrote: »

You really paying 10k taxes on 30k?

Sounds high to me

It's about 5k.

elefant

BrianG23 wrote: »

Really annoying the **** out of me. 3 years of college and barely any employers would look at the degree, thousands gone into it and the amount of time and effort and at the end of it, I get an internship for ~30000 quid, nice I thought...I got lucky, finally!

8-10lk of which is gone in taxes overall. What the hell was the point? If a third of it is taxed away! i'd almost be better off cheating the system entirely!

Now after my intership ended I went back for a part time masters because I want to advance as far as I can. So I sent CV's around, no replies for months...

Finally I thought, i'm 24...i've paid decent taxes over my life, i'm showing an interest in advancing myself and looking for work, surely I can get on welfare this time? No they said. No social welfare for me. How dare I do a masters and expect anything, keep looking for a job they said.

I'll pay full adult transport prices and get taxed like an adult as soon as I work but until i'm 25 i'm a dependent child in social welfare's eyes. I don't want money from my parents! Its their money not mine! Unless I move out and pay the crazy rent in Dublin. This country is a joke!


I feel like all my efforts are wasted when people can just roll over on the dole and I can't even get a cent, since you know, I live at home...with my parents. And since they earned money just over the limit for the last few years(And recently mam is made redundant), sure, they can pay for me, i'm still a kid I guess.

So here I am, about to start a full time software engineering job while trying a masters, i'll be taxed like hell again, and when I earn more i'll get taxed even more.

How do you people put up with this? Living in Ireland! All I do is look at other countries and how much more money I can make there. Middle class work their *** off and get nothing in return here.

Am I being entitled? Living up to my millennial birthright? Are other countries just the same and I am misinformed? My parents constantly stressing over money and then being told I can't even get social welfare because of their efforts in life is a horrible joke. Its almost as if one of them should never have start working in the first place. Then the whole family could have been on the dole from as soon as we hit 18.

So you'll work full-time and live at home with your parents?
You found an internship on 30k a year out of university?
You paid decent taxes over your life at the age of 24 having worked one year in an internship?

Sorry if I've read that wrong, but if you think that's something to complain about and are struggling to grasp how people 'put up with it' I'm at a loss. Objectively, you look to have it very good.

And yes, many other developed countries also make mid-level earners pay high taxes.

RayCun

holyhead wrote: »

As I have stated before inheritance tax is a load of bs and should be scrapped.

Why is inheritance tax bs?

My parents can leave me and my siblings up to 300,000 euro each tax-free on their death. That's money I haven't worked for, I haven't earned, but I will still get tax free.

If I inherit over 300,000 euro, I will have to pay tax on the excess. Median earnings in Ireland are about 30k, so I can receive ten years of the median wage and not pay a penny, but if I receive more I will start to pay tax.

And you think this should be scrapped?

Yourself isit

elefant wrote: »

So you'll work full-time and live at home with your parents?
You found an internship on 30k a year out of university?
You paid decent taxes over your life at the age of 24 having worked one year in an internship?

Sorry if I've read that wrong, but if you think that's something to complain about and are struggling to grasp how people 'put up with it' I'm at a loss. Objectively, you look to have it very good.

And yes, many other developed countries also make mid-level earners pay high taxes.

Living at home on 30k is very doable. It's 2k a month. Mostly spending money at that age.

That's not squeezed. Earning more with kids, mortgage or rent, insurance etc that can be squeezed

Yourself isit

RayCun wrote: »

Why is inheritance tax bs?

My parents can leave me and my siblings up to 300,000 euro each tax-free on their death. That's money I haven't worked for, I haven't earned, but I will still get tax free.

If I inherit over 300,000 euro, I will have to pay tax on the excess. Median earnings in Ireland are about 30k, so I can receive ten years of the median wage and not pay a penny, but if I receive more I will start to pay tax.

And you think this should be scrapped?

It's remarkable that people oppose inheritance tax. Most stand to inherit bog all too. Or nothing until they are 50. One of life's mysteries.

elefant

Yourself isit wrote: »

Living at home on 30k is very doable. It's 2k a month. Mostly spending money at that age.

That's not squeezed. Earning more with kids, mortgage or rent, insurance etc that can squeeze

More than doable. It's luxury (if you can hack living with your folks all the time)!

Squall Leonhart

BrianG23 wrote: »

Really annoying the **** out of me. 3 years of college and barely any employers would look at the degree, thousands gone into it and the amount of time and effort and at the end of it, I get an internship for ~30000 quid, nice I thought...I got lucky, finally!

8-10lk of which is gone in taxes overall. What the hell was the point? If a third of it is taxed away! i'd almost be better off cheating the system entirely!

A deloitte income tax calculator for Ireland shows that you'd have an annual take home of €25,310. So you'd only have paid €4,690 in taxes/usc/prsi.

I call shenanigans!

pilly

BrianG23 wrote: »

Really annoying the **** out of me. 3 years of college and barely any employers would look at the degree, thousands gone into it and the amount of time and effort and at the end of it, I get an internship for ~30000 quid, nice I thought...I got lucky, finally!

8-10lk of which is gone in taxes overall. What the hell was the point? If a third of it is taxed away! i'd almost be better off cheating the system entirely!

Now after my intership ended I went back for a part time masters because I want to advance as far as I can. So I sent CV's around, no replies for months...

Finally I thought, i'm 24...i've paid decent taxes over my life, i'm showing an interest in advancing myself and looking for work, surely I can get on welfare this time? No they said. No social welfare for me. How dare I do a masters and expect anything, keep looking for a job they said.

I'll pay full adult transport prices and get taxed like an adult as soon as I work but until i'm 25 i'm a dependent child in social welfare's eyes. I don't want money from my parents! Its their money not mine! Unless I move out and pay the crazy rent in Dublin. This country is a joke!


I feel like all my efforts are wasted when people can just roll over on the dole and I can't even get a cent, since you know, I live at home...with my parents. And since they earned money just over the limit for the last few years(And recently mam is made redundant), sure, they can pay for me, i'm still a kid I guess.

So here I am, about to start a full time software engineering job while trying a masters, i'll be taxed like hell again, and when I earn more i'll get taxed even more.

How do you people put up with this? Living in Ireland! All I do is look at other countries and how much more money I can make there. Middle class work their *** off and get nothing in return here.

Am I being entitled? Living up to my millennial birthright? Are other countries just the same and I am misinformed? My parents constantly stressing over money and then being told I can't even get social welfare because of their efforts in life is a horrible joke. Its almost as if one of them should never have start working in the first place. Then the whole family could have been on the dole from as soon as we hit 18.

Sorry but your absolutely being an entitled brat. The state has paid for your education up to now. You didn't pay 10k tax on 30, more like 5k, that hasn't paid for the education you've received.

It's a hard knock life when you have an education like yours and you've to go out and earn a few bob now and start contributing to society.

I don't see why I should have to pay for you to do a masters.

BrianG23

BrianG23 wrote: »

............ 3 years of college and barely any employers would look at the degree,.................

8-10lk of which is gone in taxes overall. What the hell was the point? If a third of it is taxed away! i'd almost be better off cheating the system entirely!..............I went back for a part time masters because I want to advance as far as I can. So I sent CV's around, no replies for months...

.......................

Is it because you mightn't be the most savvy of folk (can't count for example or can't decipher tax from pension contributions ) employers are knocking you back?

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

A deloitte income tax calculator for Ireland shows that you'd have an annual take home of €25,310. So you'd only have paid €4,690 in taxes/usc/prsi.

I call shenanigans!

lawred2

pilly wrote: »

[/B]

Sorry but your absolutely being an entitled brat. The state has paid for your education up to now. You didn't pay 10k tax on 30, more like 5k, that hasn't paid for the education you've received.

It's a hard knock life when you have an education like yours and you've to go out and earn a few bob now and start contributing to society.

I don't see why I should have to pay for you to do a masters.

okay settle down a bit...

pilly

lawred2 wrote: »

okay settle down a bit...

Fair enough, bit harsh but OP did ask the question was he/she being entitled and I answered. Shouldn't have added the other word I suppose.

FreudianSlippers

listermint wrote: »

Can you explain in detail why you decided to not work while doing a masters.

Frankly masters means very little on a cv to me I read them all the time I'm looking for continous employment and practical experience.

If you were really interested in bettering yourself you'd get better advice. The advantages you perceive to get by doing the masters are taken away by your removing yourself from the workforce and fully into acadamia.

People who have degrees and 2 3 years experience will already be a step up on you.

Depends on what field you're in though doesn't it? Law, science, economics, etc. - a masters is almost a basic requirement for any good job these days?

listermint

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Depends on what field you're in though doesn't it? Law, science, economics, etc. - a masters is almost a basic requirement for any good job these days?

No starting out its not, these credentials are obtained on the way. By trying to frontload all the credentials you walk into the job with zero experience. Does not matter the field you are in bar some of the more academically focused ones research, possible law. But on the job coupled with seeing to be furthering you education whilst doing so pays far more dividends in an interview.

Its just the way it is.

As opposed to fresh faced masters graduate who pops in the door with no regard to practicalities and expecting 45K straight out the door.

FreudianSlippers

listermint wrote: »

No starting out its not, these credentials are obtained on the way. By trying to frontload all the credentials you walk into the job with zero experience. Does not matter the field you are in bar some of the more academically focused ones research, possible law. But on the job coupled with seeing to be furthering you education whilst doing so pays far more dividends in an interview.

Its just the way it is.

As opposed to fresh faced masters graduate who pops in the door with no regard to practicalities and expecting 45K straight out the door.

Fair enough, but I don't think I know very many people in law or science fields that don't have (at least) masters degrees as well as their professional qualifications.

There is nobody working in law that doesn't have an undergraduate plus a professional qualification - I suppose the professional qualification does contain practical experience - but then in the year or so it normally takes people to actually find a job, they do a masters.

listermint

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Fair enough, but I don't think I know very many people in law or science fields that don't have (at least) masters degrees as well as their professional qualifications.

There is nobody working in law that doesn't have an undergraduate plus a professional qualification - I suppose the professional qualification does contain practical experience - but then in the year or so it normally takes people to actually find a job, they do a masters.

I think you may have misconstrued my point. ...

Yes you should get them. No you should not stop working altogether in the pursuit of them.

holyhead

RayCun wrote: »

Why is inheritance tax bs?

My parents can leave me and my siblings up to 300,000 euro each tax-free on their death. That's money I haven't worked for, I haven't earned, but I will still get tax free.

If I inherit over 300,000 euro, I will have to pay tax on the excess. Median earnings in Ireland are about 30k, so I can receive ten years of the median wage and not pay a penny, but if I receive more I will start to pay tax.

And you think this should be scrapped?

The money your left would have already been subject to income tax when your parent/a were alive

BrianG23

Okay, my education has been paid for aside from, well, tuition fees of a few thousand per year for my undergrad. A masters is pretty much a requirement heck I would say even a phd at some point if you really want to advance up the ladder. More of a pretentious 'stamp of approval' rather than a skill set gained.

I have been working on and off since ..16, I don't want to get on the dole. I did a part time masters specifically so I could work, earn money and get XP while doing the masters. Having taken 5 months to find a job! Theres nothing that makes you feel like you haven't progressed at all than not being able to get a scabby amount of social welfare let me tell you that, first for being under 25 and second for doing a masters. The second job that I could have gotten in after these 5 months was harvey norman sales position.

The first job I had paid 5.50 an hour off the books. This isn't my first job.

I'm not annoyed about not getting free money, i'm annoyed that at 24, after working numerous jobs, getting a loan, spending TIME most of all on college. 3 years in a long time let alone 5 for something you just kinda need to do now, to actually get into a job earning 30000K? But again, its not the money, its that it is not that much in Ireland.

The internship is standard wage for IT industry. For graduate roles that is simply standard. You'll get a grand or two extra for having a masters, Heck I know a guy with two masters degrees and he was getting paid only a little over me when he was in a full time position.

I'll be on higher rate of income tax within a few years if I do things right. But now I kinda feel, whats the point? 5 years of working my *** off in college really work an extra few thousand? I mean, i've been rejected from most jobs BECAUSE I was in college, I even had one company thinking myself doing a masters was a bad thing. And I don't care about all that, that is what I chose by doing college. But heck, I really did not expect to still, after the last 6 years, to not be able to get the dole. Let alone my earnings are barely worth all the effort. It really is a long term invested, college I mean. I don't feel Ireland does the whole graduate thing right and no wonder so many leave.

Also, I know I don't have it bad. I dont have kids, I don't have a home(and i'll be laughing if I find one in these times), rent is ridiculous and a wasteful investment so I don't do it, right now I have only a car to pay for, insurance was 2700 on that but that's another story everyone knows what insurance is like the last while and finally loan repayments from college. So I have disposable income, or savings. But, this is the most money i'll have probably, disposable wise. It'll go downhill from here? When I move out. For lots of reasons, 30000 grand feels like nothing for those efforts and money already spent on college. Not to mention how hard it is to find a job, let alone while you're in college. I don't expect a high wage coming out of college. I didn't expect so much money to be gone already when I barely have anything to pay for! Everything else is already a rip off in Ireland.

BoJack Horseman

holyhead wrote: »

The money your left would have already been subject to income tax when your parent/a were alive

So?

The tax can only be applied to living people...... and they earn up to €300k tax free from it.

Remember, the VAT you pay this week will be with money that will have already been subject to income tax!

Stheno

BrianG23 wrote: »

Okay, my education has been paid for aside from, well, tuition fees of a few thousand per year for my undergrad. A masters is pretty much a requirement heck I would say even a phd at some point if you really want to advance up the ladder. More of a pretentious 'stamp of approval' rather than a skill set gained.

I have been working on and off since ..16, I don't want to get on the dole. I did a part time masters specifically so I could work, earn money and get XP while doing the masters. Having taken 5 months to find a job! Theres nothing that makes you feel like you haven't progressed at all than not being able to get a scabby amount of social welfare let me tell you that, first for being under 25 and second for doing a masters. The second job that I could have gotten in after these 5 months was harvey norman sales position.

The first job I had paid 5.50 an hour off the books. This isn't my first job.

I'm not annoyed about not getting free money, i'm annoyed that at 24, after working numerous jobs, getting a loan, spending TIME most of all on college. 3 years in a long time let alone 5 for something you just kinda need to do now, to actually get into a job earning 30000K? But again, its not the money, its that it is not that much in Ireland.

The internship is standard wage for IT industry. For graduate roles that is simply standard. You'll get a grand or two extra for having a masters, Heck I know a guy with two masters degrees and he was getting paid only a little over me when he was in a full time position.

I'll be on higher rate of income tax within a few years if I do things right. But now I kinda feel, whats the point? 5 years of working my *** off in college really work an extra few thousand? I mean, i've been rejected from most jobs BECAUSE I was in college, I even had one company thinking myself doing a masters was a bad thing. And I don't care about all that, that is what I chose by doing college. But heck, I really did not expect to still, after the last 6 years, to not be able to get the dole. Let alone my earnings are barely worth all the effort. It really is a long term invested, college I mean. I don't feel Ireland does the whole graduate thing right and no wonder so many leave.

Also, I know I don't have it bad. I dont have kids, I don't have a home(and i'll be laughing if I find one in these times), rent is ridiculous and a wasteful investment so I don't do it, right now I have only a car to pay for, insurance was 2700 on that but that's another story everyone knows what insurance is like the last while and finally loan repayments from college. So I have disposable income, or savings. But, this is the most money i'll have probably, disposable wise. It'll go downhill from here? When I move out. For lots of reasons, 30000 grand feels like nothing for those efforts and money already spent on college. Not to mention how hard it is to find a job, let alone while you're in college. I don't expect a high wage coming out of college. I didn't expect so much money to be gone already when I barely have anything to pay for! Everything else is already a rip off in Ireland.

What is your point?

RayCun

holyhead wrote: »

The money your left would have already been subject to income tax when your parent/a were alive

So what? If I pay a plumber 500 euro, he pays income tax on that, even though I paid income tax on it when I earned it.

You are getting 300k tax free that you didn't earn, and you are complaining about paying tax on the excess?

BrianG23

Stheno wrote: »

What is your point?

Tax is too high, expenses in general are too high. I'm simply responding to others aside from that.

Stheno

BrianG23 wrote: »

Tax is too high, expenses in general are too high. I'm simply responding to others aside from that.

On 30k you pay a sixth of your gross on tax about 18% thats not high.

What are you expecting to earn straight out of college?

pilly

BrianG23 wrote: »

Tax is too high, expenses in general are too high. I'm simply responding to others aside from that.

But you don't even know how much tax you pay. You started your initial rant by saying you paid 10k tax on 30k earnings, not true.

So before you start ranting get your facts right.

lawred2

BrianG23 wrote: »

Okay, my education has been paid for aside from, well, tuition fees of a few thousand per year for my undergrad. A masters is pretty much a requirement heck I would say even a phd at some point if you really want to advance up the ladder. More of a pretentious 'stamp of approval' rather than a skill set gained.

I have been working on and off since ..16, I don't want to get on the dole. I did a part time masters specifically so I could work, earn money and get XP while doing the masters. Having taken 5 months to find a job! Theres nothing that makes you feel like you haven't progressed at all than not being able to get a scabby amount of social welfare let me tell you that, first for being under 25 and second for doing a masters. The second job that I could have gotten in after these 5 months was harvey norman sales position.

The first job I had paid 5.50 an hour off the books. This isn't my first job.

I'm not annoyed about not getting free money, i'm annoyed that at 24, after working numerous jobs, getting a loan, spending TIME most of all on college. 3 years in a long time let alone 5 for something you just kinda need to do now, to actually get into a job earning 30000K? But again, its not the money, its that it is not that much in Ireland.

The internship is standard wage for IT industry. For graduate roles that is simply standard. You'll get a grand or two extra for having a masters, Heck I know a guy with two masters degrees and he was getting paid only a little over me when he was in a full time position.

I'll be on higher rate of income tax within a few years if I do things right. But now I kinda feel, whats the point? 5 years of working my *** off in college really work an extra few thousand? I mean, i've been rejected from most jobs BECAUSE I was in college, I even had one company thinking myself doing a masters was a bad thing. And I don't care about all that, that is what I chose by doing college. But heck, I really did not expect to still, after the last 6 years, to not be able to get the dole. Let alone my earnings are barely worth all the effort. It really is a long term invested, college I mean. I don't feel Ireland does the whole graduate thing right and no wonder so many leave.

Also, I know I don't have it bad. I dont have kids, I don't have a home(and i'll be laughing if I find one in these times), rent is ridiculous and a wasteful investment so I don't do it, right now I have only a car to pay for, insurance was 2700 on that but that's another story everyone knows what insurance is like the last while and finally loan repayments from college. So I have disposable income, or savings. But, this is the most money i'll have probably, disposable wise. It'll go downhill from here? When I move out. For lots of reasons, 30000 grand feels like nothing for those efforts and money already spent on college. Not to mention how hard it is to find a job, let alone while you're in college. I don't expect a high wage coming out of college. I didn't expect so much money to be gone already when I barely have anything to pay for! Everything else is already a rip off in Ireland.

you still put too much weight in your college studies...

I know a few developers who are largely self taught - no formal third level education. And they are brilliant engineers who are never out of work. Experience and know how matter more than book smarts.

Third level is good to get you out there but that's it. You have to do the rest yourself. You'll learn that in time. I know it's difficult when you graduate - it's rarely what graduates expect. You're at the bottom when you come out of university. 30k isn't a bad start for someone with no experience.

However you're young with no baggage - the world is your oyster. Have a look further afield. There's no doubt about it that Ireland costs a lot for little in return.

Professor Moriarty

RayCun wrote: »

So what? If I pay a plumber 500 euro, he pays income tax on that, even though I paid income tax on it when I earned it.

You are getting 300k tax free that you didn't earn, and you are complaining about paying tax on the excess?

Did some work recently on a my house. Plumber, electrician, carpenter and tiler all refused to do the job unless I paid cash. I offered a cheque or online cash transfer but it was cash or no work done. Maybe they declared that money to the revenue and they were dealing in cash only because they were so busy. Or maybe not.

RayCun

BrianG23 wrote: »

Okay, my education has been paid for aside from, well, tuition fees of a few thousand per year for my undergrad.

Which don't begin to cover the cost of your degree. And then there's your primary and secondary schools, and your health care, and the child benefit your parents received, and the roads and buses and gardai and...

BrianG23 wrote: »

The first job I had paid 5.50 an hour off the books. This isn't my first job.

So no tax on that

BrianG23 wrote: »

I'm not annoyed about not getting free money, i'm annoyed that at 24, after working numerous jobs, getting a loan, spending TIME most of all on college. 3 years in a long time let alone 5 for something you just kinda need to do now, to actually get into a job earning 30000K?

but that was just an internship, right? I'm pretty sure software engineer pays more than that pretty quickly

Honestly, I think the problem is that your expectations were not very realistic.

lawred2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Did some work recently on a my house. Plumber, electrician, carpenter and tiler all refused to do the job unless I paid cash. I offered a cheque or online cash transfer but it was cash or no work done. Maybe they declared that money to the revenue and they were dealing in cash only because they were so busy. Or maybe not.

hope you asked for 20% reduction for cash

Professor Moriarty

lawred2 wrote: »

hope you asked for 20% reduction for cash

Got the best deal I could. In the end I felt as if they were doing me a favour and that if they didn't do the job then I could be waiting.

The_Captain

listermint wrote: »

Your negating the fact they're removing themselves completely from the work force all advantages are lost completely. That's the reality come interview time.

Candidate A. 5 years continously employed part time..masters.

Candidate B 1 years employment full time. Masters.


A... It appears that you have practical experience and a master oh and 5 years continuous salary increments



Its a no brainer.

And certainly for me when I'm conducting an interview

I'm not negating anything. Your argument is that a candidate with 5 years experience and a masters degree is better than a candidate with 1 year of experience and a masters degree. Of course it's a no brainer, you would literally need no brain to think that's a decent point to make.

Experience trumps qualifications in the short term. 9 years experience and a masters beats 10 years experience with no masters. That's the reality come interview time when you move up the ladder.

listermint

The_Captain wrote: »

I'm not negating anything. Your argument is that a candidate with 5 years experience and a masters degree is better than a candidate with 1 year of experience and a masters degree. Of course it's a no brainer, you would literally need no brain to think that's a decent point to make.

Experience trumps qualifications in the short term. 9 years experience and a masters beats 10 years experience with no masters. That's the reality come interview time when you move up the ladder.

You may need a brain to understand no where did i say dont do a masters.

But sure read out of it what you will ,or perhaps you typed too soon without reading it fully.

NovemberJersey

•CGT should be abolished as well as inheritance tax
•No more than 35% taken out of your wages no matter how much your earning, I pay PRSI even though I'm self employed and if I have to stop working for whatever reason I won't even be able to get that money
•Cut social welfare down to half so people might actually want to work and it'll be easier to find people to employ
•Actually spend road tax on upkeeping the roads, here in the west the roads are borderline unusable in many places
•Tighten up the purse strings regarding children's allowance altogether
•No more double dole for Xmas, let them get jobs if they want more money
•Cut teachers wages by 25% across the board, they're off for 200 days a year - what would any of those teachers be worth in terms of wages in the private sector when you take into consideration how little they actually work?
•Get rid of the tax free slush fund that the TD's call "expenses"
•Bring down minimum wage to €7.50, no wonder SME's are struggling when the cost of employing these people with basically no skills is so expensive
•Give out only partial cash for the dole (€50 maybe) and €50 worth of food stamps, during the week pubs are full of these people who don't want to work and are drinking their dole money - the food stamps would only be for their own good
•Get C.A.B. to do their job properly, if a fella has never worked a day in his life and he's driving around a new Mercedes and if someone else in his family is driving another new Mercedes then that's probably the sort of stuff they should be looking into but it perennially goes unnoticed to the point that it's farcical

RayCun

Actually spend road tax on upkeeping the roads, here in the west the roads are borderline unusable in many places

Yeah, I agree, all road tax should be spent on roads. :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

Did some work recently on a my house. Plumber, electrician, carpenter and tiler all refused to do the job unless I paid cash. I offered a cheque or online cash transfer but it was cash or no work done. Maybe they declared that money to the revenue and they were dealing in cash only because they were so busy. Or maybe not.

I wouldn't pay them in anything other than cash! You think I would give a nice hefty amount for the government to waste on wasters and the rest of it here, before giving it all to the worker? I pay nothing in cash, mechanic, hair dresser, trades people etc...

I agree with your points NovermberJersey, well most of them at least. There is protest at water charges, the pittance they are, while the government thieve over half of your income on a low income of E33,800, its a f**cking disgrace! How much does this cost in terms of people turning work down, promotions, not doing over time, good people leaving Ireland or not returning because of it. The Xmas bonus is farcical, get rid of it. With the minimum wage, there is a serious difference in cost of living between Dublin and outside it, at least there is if you rent, I think E9.50 plus per hour is acceptable, given the welfare rates here...

Where do you even start on the welfare system, it requires a total overhaul... Way more jobs would be created, if for example, marginal income tax rates weren't so ridiculous and counter enterprise...

Yourself isit

The_Captain wrote: »

I'm not negating anything. Your argument is that a candidate with 5 years experience and a masters degree is better than a candidate with 1 year of experience and a masters degree. Of course it's a no brainer, you would literally need no brain to think that's a decent point to make.

Experience trumps qualifications in the short term. 9 years experience and a masters beats 10 years experience with no masters. That's the reality come interview time when you move up the ladder.

I don't agree with that. Experience matters. That's what all the linked in recruiters want. X years of experience in Y. Rarely see a demand for a masters and it would only help if the masters were in Y.

Yourself isit

NovemberJersey wrote: »

•CGT should be abolished as well as inheritance tax

Increased if anything.

•No more than 35% taken out of your wages no matter how much your earning, I pay PRSI even though I'm self employed and if I have to stop working for whatever reason I won't even be able to get that money

35% is reasonable but you don't pay full PRSI.

•Cut social welfare down to half so people might actually want to work and it'll be easier to find people to employ

Impoverished people won't help the economy

•Actually spend road tax on upkeeping the roads, here in the west the roads are borderline unusable in many places

Road tax isn't enough to fund the roads. Here is one place where you do want redistribution - from Dublin to every booreen in the West.

•Tighten up the purse strings regarding children's allowance altogether

Its high but reducing it now will harm lots of hard working families.

•No more double dole for Xmas, let them get jobs if they want more money

Instead let's cut workers tax in December? If feasible.

•Cut teachers wages by 25% across the board, they're off for 200 days a year - what would any of those teachers be worth in terms of wages in the private sector when you take into consideration how little they actually work?

Classroom hours aren't just the job you know. In the private sector the best teachers would be worth much more

•Get rid of the tax free slush fund that the TD's call "expenses"

Won't save that much.

•Bring down minimum wage to €7.50, no wonder SME's are struggling when the cost of employing these people with basically no skills is so expensive

The aim of an worthwhile economic system is to make people better off - even the unskilled.

•Give out only partial cash for the dole (€50 maybe) and €50 worth of food stamps, during the week pubs are full of these people who don't want to work and are drinking their dole money - the food stamps would only be for their own good

Very American. I've never been on the dole but I want money if I ever have to be.

•Get C.A.B. to do their job properly, if a fella has never worked a day in his life and he's driving around a new Mercedes and if someone else in his family is driving another new Mercedes then that's probably the sort of stuff they should be looking into but it perennially goes unnoticed to the point that it's farcical

Yes.