Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Car insurance for >15 year old cars

Options
1…89111314…30

Comments

  • Options
    #302
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    So at the end of the day we are being ripped off by insurance companies.
    Has anyone got a sensible idea as to what can be done about it?

    There really is nothing. Its a captive market. Govt shows great reluctance in tackling it. We need to have insurance by law.

    I guess the only way around it is to run a car that's cheap to insure, or not run a car at all. Some people manage just hiring cars.


  • Options
    #303
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    OK, So rather than me rummaging through 20 pages on this topic can ye list the top 2 companies for insurance on older cars. My insurance last year tpf& it was 500 on a 02 Passat no claims points etc. this year it's 675!


  • Options
    #304
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote:
     

    Insurers have never said that older cars are unsafe, people have chosen to interpret it that way for some reason. Insurers have stated that the reason they are avoiding older cars is because they feel they are used in a disproportionate number of serious claims.

    There may be other factors associated with these larger claims, such as sex, nationality, ethnic origin etc. but equality laws prohibit them from citing these reasons, so they go with the neutral one

    I'm trying to get at what's actually going on and not what people/companies have said.

    Older cars are not as safe. I wouldn't dream that all the insurance companies are being socially responsible and doing what they're doing for the greater good. But an accident with an old car involved generally costs a lot more because people are more seriously injured and guess who has to pay for their medical expenses, loss of income, rehab and physio, counselling etc.

    Then throw in whats already been mentioned about fraudulent claims and old cars. It's easy to see why they are going to town on old cars.

    There could be any number of reasons why it's happened but that's my take on it.


  • Options
    #305
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Nolan Sticky Headphone wrote: »
    I'm trying to get at what's actually going on and not what people/companies have said.
    ...

    We don't know because no one knows the data other than the insurance companies.

    This is from 2014

    http://www.autoalantiedotuskeskus.fi/en/statistics/international_statistics/average_age_of_passenger_cars_in_some_european_countries

    https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/daviz/average-age-of-road-vehicles-6#tab-chart_1


  • Options
    #306
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Nolan Sticky Headphone wrote: »

    Then throw in whats already been mentioned about fraudulent claims and old cars. It's easy to see why they are going to town on old cars..

    But surely Insurance companies are not paying out on fraudulent claims?
    If they investigated suspicious claims properly they wouldn't have to pay out.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #307
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    But surely Insurance companies are not paying out on fraudulent claims?
    If they investigated suspicious claims properly they wouldn't have to pay out.

    If you cannot prove a claim is fraudulent, it is logged in the insurers records as a genuine claim. It has to be that way, no matter how suspicious it looks

    As an example, tell me how you would investigate the following scenario properly. A car travelling along a country road at 11pm. No other motorists in the area and not a house in sight. The car leaves the road and 4 passengers end up with sore necks. They all sue the driver for negligence and each have medical reports from top neurosurgeons to back up their assertions. Each has their own solicitor and the meter is ticking. The motor assessor can confirm there is front end damage to the car consistent with a low speed impact and there is a slight mark on a tree which the car 'hit' leaving the road


  • Options
    #308
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    If you cannot prove a claim is fraudulent, it is logged in the insurers records as a genuine claim. It has to be that way, no matter how suspicious it looks

    As an example, tell me how you would investigate the following scenario properly. A car travelling along a country road at 11pm. No other motorists in the area and not a house in sight. The car leaves the road and 4 passengers end up with sore necks. They all sue the driver for negligence and each have medical reports from top neurosurgeons to back up their assertions. Each has their own solicitor and the meter is ticking. The motor assessor can confirm there is front end damage to the car consistent with a low speed impact and there is a slight mark on a tree which the car 'hit' leaving the road

    I agree - pay up unfortunately. Although the onus of proof lies with the plaintiff, (Short-term) it is much cheaper to settle for €30k than drag it for years. That's the climate in Ireland. But they all should get flagged, so they NEVER can get reasonable insurance cover in future.

    BTW - is the a database like that? Of course it is not state operated, as state does not care at all, with the data of the 'suspicious individuals' ?!


  • Options
    #309
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    If you cannot prove a claim is fraudulent, it is logged in the insurers records as a genuine claim. It has to be that way, no matter how suspicious it people

    As an example, tell me how you would investigate the following scenario properly..
    ..


    A lot of the fraud is by people who have had a long list of previous claims


  • Options
    #310
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    beauf wrote: »
    A lot of the fraud is by people who have had a long list of previous claims

    You try telling a judge that you don't want to pay a plaintiff because he had a claim before. Judgement will be given in his favour immediately


  • Options
    #311
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    grogi wrote: »
    I agree - pay up unfortunately. Although the onus of proof lies with the plaintiff, (Short-term) it is much cheaper to settle for €30k than drag it for years. That's the climate in Ireland. But they all should get flagged, so they NEVER can get reasonable insurance cover in future.

    BTW - is the a database like that? Of course it is not state operated, as state does not care at all, with the data of the 'suspicious individuals' ?!

    The plaintiff has the proof. The ambulance driver confirms they were at the scene, the consultant says the plaintiff underwent examination and described symptoms consistent with whiplash and the car is showing fresh impact damage.

    If you pay a claim as legitimate (cannot prove fraud) you will end up in the courts if you flag them as criminals. If the Regulator saw stuff like that during their recent raids, the insurer would be in the shlts


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #312
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    The plaintiff has the proof. The ambulance driver confirms they were at the scene, the consultant says the plaintiff underwent examination and described symptoms consistent with whiplash and the car is showing fresh impact damage.

    If they are suing for negligence, they need to proof the negligence.
    Not that the accident actually happened.
    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    If you pay a claim as legitimate (cannot prove fraud) you will end up in the courts if you flag them as criminals. If the Regulator saw stuff like that during their recent raids, the insurer would be in the shlts

    You would not mark them as criminals. You would flag them as people involved with costly claim proceedings.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as the refusal for cover is not based on sex, ethnicity, age - all those protected features - you should be fine.


  • Options
    #313
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    grogi wrote: »
    If they are suing for negligence, they need to proof the negligence.
    Not that the accident actually happened.

    The circumstances I provided are sufficient proof. Once it is confirmed they were in the car and the car left the road, the driver is negligent

    You would not mark them as criminals. You would flag them as people involved with costly claim proceedings.

    They are flagged and this warrants further investigation. However, withour proof, you enter the world of defamation. There have been a few cases in the papers recently where successful claimants have been described as 'unfortunate' by the judge

    Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as the refusal for cover is not based on sex, ethnicity, age - all those protected features - you should be fine

    That is one of the reasons older car owners are having a bad time at present

    .

    See above


  • Options
    #314
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    grogi wrote: »
    If they are suing for negligence, they need to proof the negligence.
    Not that the accident actually happened.



    You would not mark them as criminals. You would flag them as people involved with costly claim proceedings.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as the refusal for cover is not based on sex, ethnicity, age - all those protected features - you should be fine.

    They don't have to prove anything, it's decided on the balance of probabilities like all civil suits. If it appears more likely than not that it happened that's generally sufficient for an award of damages.

    As for flagging people that claim frequently I've been led to believe that has started to happen. Not going to change a thing though!


  • Options
    #315
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Nolan Sticky Headphone wrote: »
    As for flagging people that claim frequently I've been led to believe that has started to happen. Not going to change a thing though!

    I've found this article from Irish Times: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/new-database-of-fraudulent-insurance-claims-on-the-way-to-tackle-rocketing-costs-35357228.html


  • Options
    #316
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    grogi wrote: »
    I've found this article from Irish Times: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/new-database-of-fraudulent-insurance-claims-on-the-way-to-tackle-rocketing-costs-35357228.html

    That's fine when you have established fraud. Like I said previously, if you do not prove fraud, you must log the claim as genuine. If anybody discovered they were on that list not having been proved guilty of fraud, they would have a field day in court


  • Options
    #317
    Mr.Cool2015
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Mr.Cool2015


    I am trying to insure a 02 Almera but I'm getting expensive quotes ranging from 800 to 1200 Euro as I am a provisional driver.Insurance is too expensive in Ireland for older cars.My Almera drives like a brand new car but the company considers the car to be too old to drive on the road.


  • Options
    #318
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Mr.Cool2015 wrote: »
    I am trying to insure a 02 Almera but I'm getting expensive quotes ranging from 800 to 1200 Euro as I am a provisional driver.Insurance is too expensive in Ireland for older cars.My Almera drives like a brand new car but the company considers the car to be too old to drive on the road.

    You don't have a driving licence for FFS... How do you expect to have reasonable quotes?


  • Options
    #319
    Mr.Cool2015
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Mr.Cool2015


    grogi wrote:
    You don't have a driving licence for FFS... How do you expect to have reasonable quotes?

    Yeah,I guess you are right but the quotes for provisional drivers are still too expensive.


  • Options
    #320
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Mr.Cool2015 wrote: »
    Yeah,I guess you are right but the quotes for provisional drivers are still too expensive.

    IMHO provisional drivers should not be able to obtain the insurance as the insured, only as named drivers with proper loading. That should increase after a year of not passing the actual exam and if you cannot pass and keep failing, you should not really drive.

    That's what the provisional is for - to learn to drive, not to drive. Learn, pass and become the driver.


  • Options
    #321
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mr.Cool2015 wrote: »
    I am trying to insure a 02 Almera but I'm getting expensive quotes ranging from 800 to 1200 Euro as I am a provisional driver.Insurance is too expensive in Ireland for older cars.My Almera drives like a brand new car but the company considers the car to be too old to drive on the road.

    I wouldn't consider that expensive for a Prov licence.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #322
    joeysoap
    Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭joeysoap


    After passing the test and then getting first time insurance, would it be an incentive if the driver got two figures - one quoting say 30% discount which he/she keeps for 3 years provided they don't have a claim. And the other the amount they will have to renew at if they do have a claim.

    All insurers would have to be on board for it to work. Wouldn't work of course for someone emigrating etc.


  • Options
    #323
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    My insurance show the rolling discount per no of year no claims in a table. Maybe that was the house though.


  • Options
    #324
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,026 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    grogi wrote: »
    IMHO provisional drivers should not be able to obtain the insurance as the insured, only as named drivers with proper loading. That should increase after a year of not passing the actual exam and if you cannot pass and keep failing, you should not really drive.

    That's what the provisional is for - to learn to drive, not to drive. Learn, pass and become the driver.

    This is utter bollox, how the hell are people supposed to get a no claims bonus? Named drving experience won't give you much of a discount, this country went long enough with everyone driving on their own with L plates, its funny how all these new rules came in force during the recession where more money had to be spent to gain a full license.


  • Options
    #325
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    This is utter bollox, how the hell are people supposed to get a no claims bonus?

    Exactly the same way they do now. By getting insured.
    Named drving experience won't give you much of a discount

    It does.
    this country went long enough with everyone driving on their own with L plates, its funny how all these new rules came in force during the recession where more money had to be spent to gain a full license.

    Yes, a very long way. The average wealth of a person trippled over last 30 years... We simply have much more cars...


  • Options
    #326
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    This is utter bollox, how the hell are people supposed to get a no claims bonus? .

    Any learner's permit holder who wants to insure his own vehicle is almost certainly going to drive unaccompanied. I have earned the right, by passing my test and driving accident free for over 30 years, not to have to face the risk of meeting such a driver on the road when I am out and about


  • Options
    #327
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    Mr.Cool2015 wrote: »
    I am trying to insure a 02 Almera but I'm getting expensive quotes ranging from 800 to 1200 Euro as I am a provisional driver.Insurance is too expensive in Ireland for older cars.My Almera drives like a brand new car but the company considers the car to be too old to drive on the road.

    But those quotes are a bargain, What exactly are you giving out about?


  • Options
    #328
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,026 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Any learner's permit holder who wants to insure his own vehicle is almost certainly going to drive unaccompanied. I have earned the right, by passing my test and driving accident free for over 30 years, not to have to face the risk of meeting such a driver on the road when I am out and about

    Again spoken like a true company man, how are people supposed to get proper experience on the road? Driving mammy and Daddy to the shop isnt going to get much experience, I was on the M50 within 2 weeks of driving and it was the best thing to happen to me, It's not learner drivers in bangers flying up and down the motorways its the lads in BMWs, Audis and VWs going 140+ speeds or the women in their kiddy carriers doing make up at shocking speeds, nobody cared about learner drivers until the last few years with all the changes, now everyone is a driving snob, for the record I have a full license myself and 8 years NCB but I wouldnt begrudge a new driver the time to learn to drive.


  • Options
    #329
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,026 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    grogi wrote: »
    Exactly the same way they do now. By getting insured.



    It does.



    Yes, a very long way. The average wealth of a person trippled over last 30 years... We simply have much more cars...

    You said they should only be named drivers, they cant get a NCB as a named driver, I worked in insurance named driving experience is nowhere near as good of a discount as a proper NCB.


  • Options
    #330
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    You said they should only be named drivers

    Yes, I did.
    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    they cant get a NCB as a named driver

    You don't get NCB as a named driver. You however get experience which impacts your quote and gives you discount.
    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    I worked in insurance named driving experience is nowhere near as good of a discount as a proper NCB.

    Oh irony... If only working in particular field would give domain knowledge... Instead of getting experience as named driver you advocate for learners drivers to get insured as main driver. Well - by your logic they wouldn't have any NCB anyway at inception, so what is the difference?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #331
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    Again spoken like a true company man, how are people supposed to get proper experience on the road? Driving mammy and Daddy to the shop isnt going to get much experience, I was on the M50 within 2 weeks of driving and it was the best thing to happen to me, It's not learner drivers in bangers flying up and down the motorways its the lads in BMWs, Audis and VWs going 140+ speeds or the women in their kiddy carriers doing make up at shocking speeds, nobody cared about learner drivers until the last few years with all the changes, now everyone is a driving snob, for the record I have a full license myself and 8 years NCB but I wouldnt begrudge a new driver the time to learn to drive.

    Spoken like a very self entitled person who considers themselves to be the best driver ever from the moment they got behind the wheel. You had no right to inflict yourself on other motorists by going on the M50 as you say you did. The high cost of insurance paid by young people today reflects the impact people like yourself have had on the vast majority who take driving seriously and abide by the law.

    As you like to get personal in your posts, I won't engage with you any further


Advertisement