Car insurance for >15 year old cars

LemmyKilmister

Which could be the best broker or insurer for a LHD 30+ y.o. car + EU driving license............no driving history in the ROI.........

MrCostington

physioman wrote: »

2001 1.9 diesel. Lady driver 12 years no claims, 0 penalty points. Fully comp

Axa- 592
Chill- 682
Aviva- 450

My experiences this week:


Just Aviva for an '02 A4 1.6 petrol. 30+ years no claims, zero points, Dublin. Web quote is €836.


BOI say no cars over 16.


Chill winner at €471 (online €537 but agent called me)



123 €506


AA €680


Am I missing any?

lalababa

MrCostington wrote: »

My experiences this week:


Just Aviva for an '02 A4 1.6 petrol. 30+ years no claims, zero points, Dublin. Web quote is €836.


BOI say no cars over 16.


Chill winner at €471 (online €537 but agent called me)



123 €506


AA €680


Am I missing any?

I'm getting 410 for very similar car from quote devil.

MrCostington

lalababa wrote: »

I'm getting 410 for very similar car from quote devil.

Cheers, will try them tomorrow. Are you in Dublin too?

legendary.xix

Hi all,

Is it still possible to get car insurance for cars over 15 years?

I've seen a lot of comment in the media on the difficulty of getting car insurance for older cars.

It very unfair on people who have owned the car, got it regularly serviced and nct etc.

Thanks in advance for any detail.

colm_mcm

If that were the case then every car you see older than 2003 would be uninsured.

It’s possible, but you are correct, many companies don’t want the business.

tuxy

Liberty will insure me on a 97 starlet for 200-300 more than a modern car.
I pay up because I like the starlet and it's more reliable and fuel efficient than the newer cars I can afford.

Lantus

legendary.xix wrote:

It very unfair on people who have owned the car, got it regularly serviced and nct etc.

Fewer companies do it but you can get it albeit at a premium.

Insurance companies dictating what cars we should drive, not good.

MrCostington

There is already a thread on this:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057675907&page=37

I'm renewing my 02D for €471 with chill.ie

MrCostington

lalababa wrote: »

I'm getting 410 for very similar car from quote devil.

Over 600 for me!

Del2005

Lantus wrote: »

Insurance companies dictating what cars we should drive, not good.

It's people buying bangers and staging crashes that is restricting insurance for older cars. The insurance companies respond to trends like how young people where priced out of Honda, then some VWs. So people staging crashes are to blame.

realdanbreen

The problem is we all get up in arms over the way we are being ripped off for insurance for older cars and of course when we eventually get insurance we clam down for another 12 months. We really need to get something started, a petition or whatever, and put pressure on these shysters.

monkeybutter

Del2005 wrote: »

It's people buying bangers and staging crashes that is restricting insurance for older cars. The insurance companies respond to trends like how young people where priced out of Honda, then some VWs. So people staging crashes are to blame.

But they are also restricting people who have owned said 15plus year old car for 15 years, with 15 years of never having an accident

Either by bumping up your premium so you cancel, or not taking new business. it's a total lottery, presumably based on drives to get new business rather than anything else

So it's certainly not just what you said, it may be a small part of it, but it's a racket

Muckie

Insured with AA on a 01 Yaris (like the little car, takes a beating and is easy to work on)

I'm 43, driving 20 plus years, full licence E600 fully comp too.

nomdeboardie

MrCostington wrote: »

There is already a thread on this:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057675907&page=37

I'm renewing my 02D for €471 with chill.ie

Um, I think that's this thread

MrCostington

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Um, I think that's this thread

The OP posted in the Motors section, mods must have merged it with here after I posted.

nomdeboardie

MrCostington wrote: »

The OP posted in the Motors section, mods must have merged it with here after I posted.

Thought it might have been that :pac:

Del2005

monkeybutter wrote: »

But they are also restricting people who have owned said 15plus year old car for 15 years, with 15 years of never having an accident

Either by bumping up your premium so you cancel, or not taking new business. it's a total lottery, presumably based on drives to get new business rather than anything else

So it's certainly not just what you said, it may be a small part of it, but it's a racket

It's statistics and actuary that gets insurance premiums. If loads of people start claiming when driving Hyandai Atoz then anyone with an Atoz will pay more the next renewal. So if people make claims on 15 year old bamgers or brand new tiny cars everyone else suffers, insurance is shared risk and if your demographic is a high risk then you pay more regardless of your history.

My mother has a 03 car and when getting insurance quotes fully comp is only a few hundred Euro while 3rd party only is nearly €1.5k. So obviously loads of people are insuring old cars 3rd party and crashing but strangely the same person insuring fully comp doesn't crash as often.

Wibbs

Del2005 wrote: »

It's people buying bangers and staging crashes that is restricting insurance for older cars. The insurance companies respond to trends like how young people where priced out of Honda, then some VWs. So people staging crashes are to blame.

According to the insurance companies, entities who for decades have proven to be about as transparent as the bullshit they regularly peddle to the Irish consumer.

People were "priced out of" pretty much all Japanese imports. They were affecting how much the local motor business was making. Mark me now, watch how we'll see the more recent UK imports start to be targeted. They've become a little too popular. If it's like the Jap import stuff it'll be stuff about parts, unknown history, "safety" of older cars, "criminality involved" and then the insurance premiums will go up.

realdanbreen wrote:

The problem is we all get up in arms over the way we are being ripped off for insurance for older cars and of course when we eventually get insurance we clam down for another 12 months.

I'm still raging about what I paid for this year. I'll likely be positively incandescent at the end of January when I'll be asked to bend over again. If they'll insure it as the car will just have gone over the 20 year old mark(have it over 12 years myself, but no doubt for no good reason I'll go mad and crash it for cash..). And if anyone does insure it it'll be underwritten by the same company. The same company that will give out wildly different quotes(varied by thousands) depending on the broker one goes through for the same driver in the same car. Hell I rang them directly a week apart and their quote varied by nearly 300 quid. Same car, same driver, exact same company. Maybe the coin toss went a different way that day? Yeah, colour me cynical.

We really need to get something started, a petition or whatever, and put pressure on these shysters.

And nothing would happen RD. Why? IMHO it boils down to this: The government have near zero interest in keeping older cars on the road. It looks good for the economy if new car sales and levels of "sustainable" credit goes up. The dealers certainly won't want anything to do with it for obvious reasons and neither would the financial sector(which insurance companies are part of), again for obvious reasons. Running an older economic to keep car means you're outa the consumer loop, so there's little to no incentive for anyone in any position of power to do anything about it. If in a parallel dimension new cars on PCP's were getting higher premiums then movement would happen alright.

Eggs For Dinner

Can you still not grasp the reasons for the stance taken by insurers?

Older cars = disproportionately higher claims costs = higher premiums to cover it or feck off altogether, either suits them
Newer cars = better claims costs, lower premiums

If you think they are going to sit down with each individual to assess if they specifically should be given preferential treatment over others, it isn't going to happen. If you are in a category (any category) you will get the premium to reflect that group

Wibbs

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Can you still not grasp the reasons for the stance taken by insurers?

Older cars = disproportionately higher claims costs = higher premiums to cover it or feck off altogether, either suits them
Newer cars = better claims costs, lower premiums

I "grasp" it fine Ted.

Me. Earlier. wrote:

According to the insurance companies, entities who for decades have proven to be about as transparent as the bullshit they regularly peddle to the Irish consumer.

For example their published claims costs such as they are don't include the out of court settlements, settlements which make up the majority of their payouts and are clearly lower in costs, or they wouldn't make up the majority of claims. So nobody knows but the insurance companies themselves how "disproportionate" claims are for different classes of vehicles, certainly not the consumers of this legally mandated requirement.

Secondly, how do you explain that the same cars with the same drivers with the same risks going to the same company through brokers and even directly can have wildly different quotations? How's that work then? And that's not just me either, we've seen this in effect in nigh on every single post on renewal quotes.

If you think they are going to sit down with each individual to assess if they specifically should be given preferential treatment over others, it isn't going to happen.

Eh.. What babble is this? They already do. Individuals are already assessed by age, sex, NCB, points, driving experience and depending on those criteria an individual driver gets "preferential treatment", or not. That doesn't seem to be too difficult for them. It's certainly not too difficult for insurers in other EU countries.

Take car security for a moment. In the UK, France, Germany and Spain* if your car has extra industry recognised third party security(e.g. trackers, Thatcham level 1/2 alarm/immobiliser) you get a discount. For obvious reasons. Such devices make a car harder to steal and much more likely to be recovered if stolen. Here? Some classes of luxury vehicles will be refused cover by some if they don't have a tracker alright, but outside of them it makes no difference. Seriously folks, for fun untick the security box if present, it'll make no difference to your premium.



*Almost certainly others, but those four I know about.

Eggs For Dinner

Wibbs wrote: »

Secondly, how do you explain that the same cars with the same drivers with the same risks going to the same company through brokers and even directly can have wildly different quotations? How's that work then? And that's not just me either, we've seen this in effect in nigh on every single post on renewal quotes.

It's similar to why you can find vastly different prices for a can of Guinness in an off-licence, pub, corner shop or Tescos. There are different distribution methods with the price being dictated on volumes and associated costs. If a distributor agrees to take on a lot of the administration costs for an insurer, they will receive the product at a lower cost.

Also, in my experience, people never insert the EXACT same details when obtaining quotes from multiple sources

Eggs For Dinner

Wibbs wrote: »

I "grasp" it fine Ted.


Eh.. What babble is this? They already do. Individuals are already assessed by age, sex, NCB, points, driving experience and depending on those criteria an individual driver gets "preferential treatment", or not. That doesn't seem to be too difficult for them. It's certainly not too difficult for insurers in other EU countries.

.

They are not the only criteria taken in to consideration and you know it. No 2 policyholders will ever be the same and insurers rating matrixes are very sophisticated. Also, these excellent Insurers in other EU countries are the same ones who appear to be upsetting you so much. These excellent EU insurers have adapted their basis of operation to cater for the basket case that is the Irish insurance market

Wibbs

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

They are not the only criteria taken in to consideration and you know it. No 2 policyholders will ever be the same and insurers rating matrixes are very sophisticated.

You appear to be confusing yourself and the rest of us:

You. Earlier. wrote: »

If you think they are going to sit down with each individual to assess if they specifically should be given preferential treatment over others, it isn't going to happen.

So which is it? Insurers don't assess individuals to a "very sophisticated" level or they do?

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Also, in my experience, people never insert the EXACT same details when obtaining quotes from multiple sources

And what about those that do and still get wildly varying quotes?

Also, these excellent Insurers in other EU countries are the same ones who appear to be upsetting you so much. These excellent EU insurers have adapted their basis of operation to cater for the basket case that is the Irish insurance market

Oh the Irish insurance market is a basket case indeed. For a few reasons: Stupidly high court payouts leading to a claims culture, government mismanagement and the Irish insurance industry that has been woefully mismanaged for decades. Remember the rush to the bottom with unrealistic below cost pricing in the Tiger years? The dubious investment portfolios? The joke that was Quinn insurance? The daftness that goes back to the 80's when the state had to bale out PMPA? Never mind the years of complaining about the court system here, yet doing eff all to change it. Well I suppose if 75% of your payouts are out of court... Or the lack of transparency. Or the magic apparently independent agreements on older cars that happened overnight. Or that the excuse that rising payouts and costs are behind the price hikes, when a Dail investigation back in '16 showed that payouts and costs were dropping year on year, while premiums were going up and up.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

Yes Ireland is a basket case for insurance, but the insurance industry is just as responsible as the government and the legal profession and the chancers.

Eggs For Dinner

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes Ireland is a basket case for insurance, but the insurance industry is just as responsible as the government and the legal profession and the chancers.

I have never said that insurers were not part of the problem (not the biggest one in my opinion) I merely explain why they take certain actions to protect their accounts. You choose not to accept my opinion, which is fine

mgbgt1978

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Can you still not grasp the reasons for the stance taken by insurers?

Older cars = disproportionately higher claims costs = higher premiums to cover it or feck off altogether, either suits them
Newer cars = better claims costs, lower premiums

If you think they are going to sit down with each individual to assess if they specifically should be given preferential treatment over others, it isn't going to happen. If you are in a category (any category) you will get the premium to reflect that group

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

They are not the only criteria taken in to consideration and you know it. No 2 policyholders will ever be the same and insurers rating matrixes are very sophisticated.

Jesus wept. Make your bloody mind up. There's only a couple of the self-appointed Insurance spokespersons still posting here....I wonder why

Wibbs

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

I have never said that insurers were not part of the problem (not the biggest one in my opinion) I merely explain why they take certain actions to protect their accounts. You choose not to accept my opinion, which is fine

Well to be fair your opinion seems to be at cross purposes at times. On the one hand insurance companies can't look at individuals with much resolution, yet on the other their "rating matrixes are very sophisticated" on individual policy holders. It seems your first opinion is more accurate as Ms Bridget O'Citizen with her one litre 15 year old Starlet she's driven for ten years is lumped in with Mr Paddy O'Chancer who buys and crashes a 15 year old Mondeo within the same week. And has a suspiciously weak neck.

On the one hand we have their constant protestations that premiums are climbing year upon year because claims are going up, yet on the other their profits have been also steadily going up. Aviva posted a not far off a hundred million profit for 2017. Indeed in 2016 Aviva's profits were their highest for five years yet that was when the price gouging was kicking off. AXA UK and Ireland profits are at the 160 millions mark by mid 2018 with strong growth in Ireland.

We'll also ignore the fact that in claims paid out 20% are dealt with by the PIAB, 10% go to court and 70% are dealt with by the insurance companies. The only transparent figures for claims available are the PIAB and courts, the rest are hidden. Guess which ones the insurance industry trots out as examples?

So consistent growth in profits across the board since 2009/10, claims falling, yet insurance premiums going up across the board and not just with car insurance and still the tired old explanations are trotted out? Never mind when claims were higher and profitability was lower, premiums were lower, considerably lower in many case. Something doesn't add up.

I have zero issue with insurance companies making money. I do have a problem when they're doing so on the back of a legally mandated requirement. I do have a problem where some are penalised and explanations are vague and actual figures are hidden. I do have a problem with wildly differing premium quotes with the same cars/individuals/risks. I do have a problem with the Irish insurance industry pointing at the splinters in everyone else's eyes but then seem decidedly reluctant to point at the beam in their own.

MrCostington

MrCostington wrote: »

My experiences this week:

Just Aviva for an '02 A4 1.6 petrol. 30+ years no claims, zero points, Dublin. Web quote is €836.

BOI say no cars over 16.

Chill winner at €471 (online €537 but agent called me)

123 €506

AA €680

Am I missing any?

UPDATE


Went to get cover yesterday and both Chill and 123 had gone up since I got my quotes. Renewed for E510 with Aaran/AXA TPFT (with partner on, would have been over 700 without her and she has 3 points!)

Gormal

Here are a couple of petitions you might want to sign?

Save the cars and stop the waste!

Irish Motor Insurance Ripoff

Implement changes to reform the car insurance market in Ireland

I scrapped my nearly 20yr old car in time for renewal, replacement 8 yrs old, only saved €300 on insurance but €100 a year on tax. FBD still wouldn't quote me.... who do they insure?

SCOOP 64

Signed all 3 of them , my cars 20 years old ,had it 10 years,don't want to give it up,
insurance going up every year, see how long i can afford to keep it.