Germany or Sweden

warlikedave

Hi.

I am looking for information on what's it's like to live in either of these countries. I am looking to make a decision on which one so I can start learning the language and make a move by the middle of next year.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

jester77

Could you be a little more specific?

Germany is great if you make the effort, fantastic place to raise a family, things just work, people are straight with you so you know where you stand, lots of employment opportunities, good healthcare, great public transport, no nanny statue nonsense like in Ireland.

But you pay for it, taxes are high in comparison to Ireland, a lot of initial bureaucracy, housing is limited and expensive in the larger cities, you don't want to be unemployed for over 12 months, you practically need insurance for everything.

warlikedave

jester77 wrote: »

Could you be a little more specific?

Germany is great if you make the effort, fantastic place to raise a family, things just work, people are straight with you so you know where you stand, lots of employment opportunities, good healthcare, great public transport, no nanny statue nonsense like in Ireland.

But you pay for it, taxes are high in comparison to Ireland, a lot of initial bureaucracy, housing is limited and expensive in the larger cities, you don't want to be unemployed for over 12 months, you practically need insurance for everything.

Well I'm a 2 time science graduate, and working in quality assurance in the pharmaceutical industry in Ireland. I was planning to move to Russia but my plans have changed so I am looking for a new challenge so to speak:

So my questions would be:
1. How good are the job prospects if you are only beginning to learn German?
2. What insurance do I need over there?
3. You said being unemployed for 12 plus months is an issue. Can you elaborate?
4. Is it easy to meet new people and how friendly are they?
5. Which city would be best for a fun time and for science based job prospects?
6. Is there a lot of beauracracy to deal with in setting up a life there?

Thank by the way for answering the original query.

You can provide as much information as you would like to

jester77

Qualifications are important here, so you should be good. I don't know anything about the pharma industry but there are some big players in Germany.

As I don't know the industry I can't really say what job prospects are without German. I guess it depends on suppply/demand. In IT there is a shortage of candidates, so most IT companies will be OK with non-German speaking people.

Health insurance is mandatory, there is public or private. Public is 15% of your salary, private is a fixed amount and works out cheaper when you have a larger salary but comes with lots of caveats. You need to earning over 56k, you pay costs up front, you cannot easily go back to public and you have to cover costs even when you retire. If you have children they will also need to be privately insured which costs 150-200 a month, whereas they are covered for free under public. Private sounds good when you are young and single

Germany is insurance obsessed, the Germans hate taking chances so there is insurance for almost everything. Personal liability (Haftpflicht) is the main one that would be recommended. If you accidentally hit someone on your bike, or knock over something in a store, or do damage to something or other then this will cover it. There are plenty of others, Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung if you are injured or sick and cannot work for an extended time, various house and contents insurances, Rechtsschutzversicherung for when someone sues you or you need to sue someone no matter how small. It will cover the legal fees.

For the first 12 months of unemployment you will get around 66% of your previously salary. After that it is Hartz IV. You will be means tested and any assets of value will need to be sold and your savings will need to be used before you get any further assistance. If you own a house that is deemed too large it needs to be sold, or if you rent somewhere too big you will need to downsize. Then you will get around €100 a week to live on.

The younger generation are friendly and outgoing, when compared to the older generation. You meet people through sport, work, where you live. It can be hard to make good friends as Germans usually establish their social circle early on and it can be hard to get into this. Plus they are not very spontaneous, so grabbing someone on the way out of the office and asking if they fancy a beer will usually not work. You have to plan things in advance here. Plus if you say to someone you will see them later, then they take that literally!

Can't say which city is good for science jobs, but any of the bigger cities will be fun. Hamburg, Berlin and Munich are great cities for going out in.

The bureaucracy at the start is a pain, particularly if you are a non-EU citizen. You need to register yourself at the local Amt fairly soon after arriving. Getting an apartment is tricky, plus expensive at the start, you would need around 6 months rent to get going, 3 for deposit, 1.5 for the agent, and first month up front, plus apartments are empty so you will need furniture, lights and probably a kitchen if there is no one built in.

warlikedave

Thank you so much for going into that level of detail. In terms.of qualifications - my two qualifications are from DIT, not a university...does that have any impact if I may ask?

Germany seems a very good option I must say. What are the best options for job hunting over there? Do they have a big job market website I could check out?

As for Sweden...can anyone provide information please?

warlikedave

Also just wanted to ask what cities would be the best move in Germany from your experience? In terms of life and having fun and meeting new people as well as dating? I know it's a weird question but would love to know.

kirving

Have you been to either before OP? I know people move to Australia or Canada never having been there before, but the are two countries in Europe you could easily visit for a week each for €1000 to see what you think.

warlikedave

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Have you been to either before OP? I know people move to Australia or Canada never having been there before, but the are two countries in Europe you could easily visit for a week each for €1000 to see what you think.

I will be planning a 2 day visit to each early next year but my money is very limited otherwise I would have done this already. It's a great idea though.

jester77

DIT is fine, some of the top companies might be picky when it comes to where you studied, but most won't. I can only think of Google where they have an internal league of uni's. Your grades and what you studied will be of more interest.

The cities are very different, it will come down to personal preference. I have only lived in Frankfurt and Hamburg. If you enjoy hiking/skiing then south is more preferable, if you like any form of surfing then north would be better. Hamburg is great, it's a big city but very easy to get around compared to Berlin. Denmark and Holland are close by, and it's easy to get to the coast. But Berlin would have a more diverse and international lifestyle. It's where all the startups are basing themselves as the city is cheap and is easier to get office space or an apartment compared to the other cities. Munich and Hamburg are expensive, and difficult to find somewhere to live, you would be competing with a lot of people when looking for somewhere to live. Frankfurt is not a nice city, but the areas around it are beautiful.

Can't help with dating, but I know Hamburg has one of the largest % of singles in Germany. Not sure what that says about the people :pac:

If you were to live in Munich you would get more days off per year due to religious holidays, compared to say Hamburg. Not something that should influence where you move to, but just something to note.

jester77

This is the official government site for jobs:
http://jobboerse.arbeitsagentur.de/

XING has one of the top job portals
https://www.xing.com/jobs

Then there is monster:
http://www.monster.de/jobs/suche/

and English specific jobs:
http://www.toytowngermany.com/jobs/

Toytown is worth joining, very helpful resource although the members can be a bit too quick to attack someome

murphaph

warlikedave wrote: »

Thank you so much for going into that level of detail. In terms.of qualifications - my two qualifications are from DIT, not a university...does that have any impact if I may ask?

No impact IMO. The Germans will check what those qualifications equate to here (if they are not Bologna qualifications, in which case they should not even need to).

The Germans respect technical schools so nobody will "look down" on your DIT degree because it's not from a university. Alongside the universities you have the Fachhochschulen here, which are just like DIT really.

warlikedave

Thanks a million to three of ye for so much information. I do have another question or two about healthcare in Germany by the way.

What is the rule on pre existing conditions if ye would know may I ask? And is medication subsidised or at private prices may I ask?

I know there have been alot of questions by the way and I do appreciate the time ye guys have taken to answer it.

Oh...I nearly forgot to ask...socialising there sounds like it's difficult even for the best socially skilled person - am I correct? Just asking - my social skills leave alot to be desired.

warlikedave

So any information and opinion about Sweden out there?

murphaph

warlikedave wrote: »

What is the rule on pre existing conditions if ye would know may I ask? And is medication subsidised or at private prices may I ask?

AFAIK as long as you are compulsorily insured in another EU member state, the German public insurance system must accept you in along with your pre-existing condition(s). Many people rate the Techniker Krankenkasse (one of dozens or hundreds of public insurers) for their level of English speaking support.

You will have to provide documentation from Ireland proving you were covered (in Ireland practically everyone is considered compulsorily insured because of the way the funding of the HSE works, same for eg. NHS in the UK).

Ardennes1944

Would you consider Switzerland?

warlikedave

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

Would you consider Switzerland?

I might be but I know almost nothing about life there. Could you share some information if that is ok?

Ardennes1944

No problem at all.

As a quick background, so I am living here almost 3 years. I am working as a software consultant in big pharma just outside Basel, and my girlfriend who I met about 3 weeks after moving here is from NZ and is finishing a PhD in Neuroscience In Basel Uni too.

There is lots of pharma jobs here, particularly in QA. I changed jobs a couple of months ago and there did seem to be a big demand for QA people.
In Basel you have two big companies of Novartis and Roche who employ large amounts of people in the city and from France and Germany.
If you are in Basel and doing something QA related, you would get away with no learning German as most documents are done in English anyway, but for better integration I would recommend it.
I am close to fluent in German and my GF has little to no German (as shes in Science most speak English anyway) and there are times when she feels that people here are not friendly, which is true to a degree, but can be offset by learning the local language.

Financially, I dont think there are many better place to live. Yes rent is expensive (we pay 2,000chf a month for a 90sqm apartment in a nice area) but you can also do it cheaper if you wish) but wages will reflect this. Living in Basel, we go to Germany every week for our shop and save a bundle and the selection is much better too.

I dont know what else to say except if you need anymore info use this website, its an absolute goldmine of info https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php

Any questions I can also help with too.

warlikedave

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

No problem at all.

As a quick background, so I am living here almost 3 years. I am working as a software consultant in big pharma just outside Basel, and my girlfriend who I met about 3 weeks after moving here is from NZ and is finishing a PhD in Neuroscience In Basel Uni too.

There is lots of pharma jobs here, particularly in QA. I changed jobs a couple of months ago and there did seem to be a big demand for QA people.
In Basel you have two big companies of Novartis and Roche who employ large amounts of people in the city and from France and Germany.
If you are in Basel and doing something QA related, you would get away with no learning German as most documents are done in English anyway, but for better integration I would recommend it.
I am close to fluent in German and my GF has little to no German (as shes in Science most speak English anyway) and there are times when she feels that people here are not friendly, which is true to a degree, but can be offset by learning the local language.

Financially, I dont think there are many better place to live. Yes rent is expensive (we pay 2,000chf a month for a 90sqm apartment in a nice area) but you can also do it cheaper if you wish) but wages will reflect this. Living in Basel, we go to Germany every week for our shop and save a bundle and the selection is much better too.

I dont know what else to say except if you need anymore info use this website, its an absolute goldmine of info https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php

Any questions I can also help with too.

Thanks a mill for the information - I just happen to be in QA - so that has a certain appeal. In terms of healthcare and social insurance as well cost of living for the basics - what is it like?

Ardennes1944

warlikedave wrote: »

Thanks a mill for the information - I just happen to be in QA - so that has a certain appeal. In terms of healthcare and social insurance as well cost of living for the basics - what is it like?

Sorry I didnt get any notification of the reply! PM me next time if you nee more info.
Living in Basel, healthcare is the most expensive out of all Kantons (counties). I pay 280 a month with the highest excess possible of 2500.

Youre talking between 2300 and 3200 annually with a high excess up to 10,000 for high cover and low excess.

But that gets you everything, if you fall ill in the morning and need surgery and hospital bed for weeks, it will cost you your excess and theres no trolleys in halls etc or waiting months/years.

Basics, well living here in Basel, or anywhere near the borders you can offset it hugely shopping in Germany or France, but food is expensive make no mistake, especially things like cleaning products and meat.

Again, everything is in proportion in my opinion.

Income tax is also only 14%