Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

Beasty

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

They don't have to justify anything to anyone on here though and unless some sort of audit is done by the awarding or other body then why should they have to?

They don't have to at all. However if they have nothing to hide why not clear the whole thing up and stop any further speculation which can only be damaging the club.

spyderski

A satisfactory explanation from the club would really bring an end to the matter, but I fear there is no such explanation.

The fact that the spin bikes will presumably only be used in the winter months is further reason why the Grant should have never been approved.

I look forward to the proud unveiling of the €20k worth of spin bikes on the club FB page though....better hurry, or the winter will be over.

spyderski

Anyway, I'm off to jump on the Turbo myself. The one I paid for. Wish someone in my club was friendly with the Taoiseach. 😂

Harrybelafonte

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

They don't have to justify anything to anyone on here though and unless some sort of audit is done by the awarding or other body then why should they have to?

This.

This whole thread is off. Enda Kenny has more than likely abused his power in this situation, and mostly a member or two of the club in question. Posting videos of club members or making derogatory remarks about them is out of order. Demanding "they" explain themselves is unhelpful as I'm sure now that they have to go into pr mode and consider everything they say carefully and honestly after investigating the situation.

As for this "investigating" by members on here, well done on unearthing the most basic level of corruption. The usual Crap we'd moan about locally. Maybe now you can use your energy doing something positive like volunteering with the homeless etc. The self importance in the thread is sickening.

That'll be all from me. This forum's posts have become very very disappointing of late.

magicbastarder

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

The self importance in the thread is sickening.

how many people in this thread might have been striving for their clubs over the last god knows how many years, only to find out that all they were missing was a 'favour' from the head of parliament?
to dismiss peoples' anger like that - after acknowledging a probable abuse of power from the taoiseach - is, well, just bizarre.

Weepsie

It's not self important though. It's fatigue. I would wish the ordinary club members well in Islandeaddy and have said so elsewhere. I am all for more and more cycling clubs and more and more people cycling.

This however is just the latest in a litany of probable abuses of power, by a "leader" who goes underground more frequently than a mole/insert other animal here.

You're right, the homeless issue is awful, and I should do more to help. We have hospitals at breaking point despite HSE warnings this week. We have a housing crises looming. We have white collar criminals walking away from the awful rubble they've left behind.

He at the helm, often doesn't have time to comment on these issues. He sits idly on his hands while the country is screaming for a referendum on the 8th amendment, yet, yet he can find time to pull personal favours for friends back home.

It's not about a cycling club getting a grant. It's about the leader of the country, and a senior minister too abusing their positions. They're not likely alone, and it's all too a recurring thing in Ireland. Your's is an attitude of acceptance, and I completely get that. We elect these officials to try and do something about these crises. Not to pull strokes for friends.

I'd love to know why only the stretch between Ashington and Castleknock on the royal canal were ever done up. It's likely because our man Leo Varadkar was at the helm of the relevant dept and it's his own backyard.

magicbastarder

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Maybe now you can use your energy doing something positive like volunteering with the homeless etc.

oh, and this makes me wearily angry. the notion that you can't care about something unless you're also doing something about something even more important is the most incredibly lazy way of dismissing someone else's concerns, and is actually a mealy mouthed call to inaction.

Harrybelafonte

The ire in this thread has mostly been directed at the club not the Taoiseach. Snidely at times.

Explanations have been demanded of the club. Not the Taoiseach.

As for justified anger. I too volunteer at grass roots level. The €20k would have helped track cycling in Ireland a lot. So I get it. The target is off.

ted1

Wow we've gone from turbo trainers to Lanzorette and then to repelling the 8th.

Weepsie

ted1 wrote: »

Wow we've gone from turbo trainers to Lanzorette and then to repelling the 8th.

Yes, I've jumped the shark there. And I don't agree with the videos of club members going up either. What individual members do in their spare time, with their money is up to them completely.

It's that someone, or some people within the club have seemingly deemed it appropriate to apply to a fund that is marked clearly on page 3 of the form, not appropriate for sports clubs.

Here's the form to apply for the fund. How on earth are the eligble?

Beasty

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Explanations have been demanded of the club. Not the Taoiseach.

As I've already made perfectly clear I was not demanding anything of the club, merely suggesting it's very much in its own interests to provide an explanation if it has nothing to hide

magicbastarder

Weepsie wrote: »

It's that someone, or some people within the club have seemingly deemed it appropriate to apply to a fund that is marked clearly on page 3 of the form, not appropriate for sports clubs.

Here's the form to apply for the fund. How on earth are the eligble?

clearly someone in the club decided to submit a grant application for a fund which was clearly stated did not apply to them, and despite all the odds, got lucky.
more power to them, eh?

ted1

Weepsie wrote: »

Yes, I've jumped the shark there. And I don't agree with the videos of club members going up either. What individual members do in their spare time, with their money is up to them completely.

It's that someone, or some people within the club have seemingly deemed it appropriate to apply to a fund that is marked clearly on page 3 of the form, not appropriate for sports clubs.

Here's the form to apply for the fund. How on earth are the eligble?

He who dares wins, I'd question the department of health rather than the club.

Doc07

ted1 wrote: »

He who dares wins, I'd question the department of health rather than the club.

I agree , the real blame lies with the awarding authority ( unless the club told blatant lies, which doesn't seem to be the case). I feel the same frustration when I read about dodgy doctors in the media. The interview panel or head of HR or DOH hiring policy never seem to be held to account.

However, it's not just the DOH civil servant at fault here is it? The email from an Taoiseach had the application attached, I'm not sure if any of the other applications came with the same ringing endorsement.

ChikiChiki

Just stumbled across this thread. I must say it's gombeenism at its finest and not all that surprising that stuff like this goes on. Would the thread be better moved or copied to the main politics forum where it would be noticed more? Kenny needs to be called out on it in my opinion. A lot of shady stuff has been going on with taxpayer money.

magicbastarder

ted1 wrote: »

Wow we've gone from turbo trainers to Lanzorette and then to repelling the 8th.

there's a new slogan - repel the 8th?

spyderski

Just to clarify the very specific first 2 points of eligibility on the form:

Please note the following before completing the application form:
1. Applications MUST HAVE a specific health related benefit.
2. Applications that are not appropriate to the Department of Health
(Sports, Education, Childcare & Youth Affairs, etc.) will not be accepted

The arguments stop there. <SNIP>

CramCycle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

This.

This whole thread is off. Enda Kenny has more than likely abused his power in this situation, and mostly a member or two of the club in question. Posting videos of club members or making derogatory remarks about them is out of order. Demanding "they" explain themselves is unhelpful as I'm sure now that they have to go into pr mode and consider everything they say carefully and honestly after investigating the situation.

I made a joke about the stress of writing the application, hardly derogatory. Nothing to consider if your not ashamed of the truth or not going to get in trouble for it. All they have to do is put up a timetable for their future spin classes and an invoice from the company that they ordered them from.

As for this "investigating" by members on here, well done on unearthing the most basic level of corruption. The usual Crap we'd moan about locally. Maybe now you can use your energy doing something positive like volunteering with the homeless etc. The self importance in the thread is sickening.

Back at you, I volunteer my time here and there, very little though, i am a selfish ****. I didn't investigate anyone, in fact most of the thread I have defended the club if you read back, I probably would have tried the same for my club if we had such classes that we could offer in such a capacity but we don't so I won't. There are several clubs though that could in a "Man shed" capacity and be successful.

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

The ire in this thread has mostly been directed at the club not the Taoiseach. Snidely at times.

Explanations have been demanded of the club. Not the Taoiseach.

As for justified anger. I too volunteer at grass roots level. The €20k would have helped track cycling in Ireland a lot. So I get it. The target is off.

The target is way off but I am not targeting the club. Everyone I know in Mayo (admittedly only 3 people) who has heard about the story has linked the holiday to the money. Which is unlikely considering the timelines but organisational requirements. FFS they can't think that would not have been picked up on. They literally only have to put up a facebook post with a picture of the new spin bikes or even a comment on their new classes for the locality starting up because said spin bikes are on the way. Instead, there is silence. Silence breeds suspicion. The way some of the posters I have met here talk in the pub, you would swear Enda dropped the 20k in cash on their doorstep and took a kickback. I have no doubt that it is crooked but to be honest, that doesn't really bother me that much if they had at least fufilled the grant requirements, do that and I am happy.

Doc07 wrote: »

I agree , the real blame lies with the awarding authority ( unless the club told blatant lies, which doesn't seem to be the case). I feel the same frustration when I read about dodgy doctors in the media. The interview panel or head of HR or DOH hiring policy never seem to be held to account.

However, it's not just the DOH civil servant at fault here is it? The email from an Taoiseach had the application attached, I'm not sure if any of the other applications came with the same ringing endorsement.

It will wash off the taoiseach as all he done was place an enquiry ( I know what he really done, just stating the facts). The civil servant will be permanent, it will be loosely within the guidelines, unlikely to get punished there. The awarding authority should be held to account, but also the minister but they will shut up shop and that will be that, the story will blow over for the most part, because as Harry said, it's hardly the crime of the century and not interesting enough to grab front page headlines for prolonged periods (unless you could of course show it in multiple areas from the same government, which in fairness, would not be difficult, but then what paper is going to print it nowadays, probably one of the UK ones).

Long story short, EK possibly only brought it up as a role as a TD. Probably a thousand emails like this over the years for projects that were not successful. So the only question is, who should take the blame, Simon Harris for pushing it or the civil servant who scoring system was so skewed that they are clearly inept at their job. I have to write up a score sheet for similarly funded projects that are kept on file should they ever be investigated, it has to be there for this project (if its handled like other funding projects in the civil service).

terrydel

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

The ire in this thread has mostly been directed at the club not the Taoiseach. Snidely at times.

Explanations have been demanded of the club. Not the Taoiseach.

As for justified anger. I too volunteer at grass roots level. The €20k would have helped track cycling in Ireland a lot. So I get it. The target is off.

Speaking only for myself, the club would want to do a well of a lot worse than abuse their position as friends of the Taoiseach to make me hate them more than said Taoiseach and all round horrible little prick enda kenny.

ted1

spyderski wrote: »

Just to clarify the very specific first 2 points of eligibility on the form:

Please note the following before completing the application form:
1. Applications MUST HAVE a specific health related benefit.
2. Applications that are not appropriate to the Department of Health
(Sports, Education, Childcare & Youth Affairs, etc.) will not be accepted

The arguments stop there. <SNIP>

I'd say 1 ticks the box , 2 disqualifies

magicbastarder

i'd be curious as to how many other grants which the club was explicitly blocked from applying for, they did actually apply for.

from what little i know of grant application, there's enough work in applying for the grants you are eligible for, to make applying for grants you're not eligible for, very curious.
it'd be one thing getting a token €500 for brass neck for applying for a grant which the criteria explicitly state does not apply to your organisation; another thing to hit the jackpot like this.

ted1

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd be curious as to how many other grants which the club was explicitly blocked from applying for, they did actually apply for.

Blocked is the incorrect terminology as they clearly where not blocked, ineligible would suit better.

guanciale

Maybe it's mentioned earlier but I would wonder did the Taoiseach advise the club not to apply for sports funding and instead to apply for health funding given the ministers involved in the respective departments. It would be interesting what S. Ross would make of an enquiry from the Taoiseach regarding a grant for his local club.

Harrybelafonte

@cramcycle If you did no investigating then the comment re investigating doesn't apply to you? If you made no derogatory remarks then my comment concerning that does not apply to you? You're defending yourself from accusations that are not made against you.

Harrybelafonte

Beasty wrote: »

As I've already made perfectly clear I was not demanding anything of the club, merely suggesting it's very much in its own interests to provide an explanation if it has nothing to hide

Thereby putting the onus on the club to explain the situation rather than the government body and representative concerned.

Harrybelafonte

magicbastarder wrote: »

oh, and this makes me wearily angry. the notion that you can't care about something unless you're also doing something about something even more important is the most incredibly lazy way of dismissing someone else's concerns, and is actually a mealy mouthed call to inaction.

Does it make you as wearily angry as this thread does me?

magicbastarder

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

@cramcycle If you did no investigating then the comment re investigating doesn't apply to you? If you made no derogatory remarks then my comment concerning that does not apply to you? You're defending yourself from accusations that are not made against you.

why not quote the posts you have a problem with so, rather than dismissing an entire thread? would remove ambiguity.

CramCycle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

@cramcycle If you did no investigating then the comment re investigating doesn't apply to you? If you made no derogatory remarks then my comment concerning that does not apply to you? You're defending yourself from accusations that are not made against you.

Fair enough, I had put up the video, more in jest of what I expect my father would have said and what my uncle did say, but you are right in that having a go at the club members is out of line unless something is proven. At worst one or two of them is guilty of cute hoorism, if we went after everyone here guilty of that half the country would be behind bars. Christ my fathers only question would be, could they only get 20k?
There are a number of things that should be done but lets be realistic won't be.
The Taoiseach should be called to account because we all know his intention. This will not happen because as I said, every TD has done it, he will claim it was in his role as a TD, loads of similar emails coincided with grant awards or denials.
The minister should be called to account, it is his department, but lets be honest, unless he got himself recorded asking for it to be swayed in that direction, he will play the minister card, just in the door, did not oversee the scoring system or weighting system.
Out of those two, with their experience, Simon is the most likely the one stupid enough to have it recorded.
Lastly, call the department to account, all that will happen here is a review, it may or may not happen again, if it does, they will make sure the grants are better written. The civil servant who allocated the weighting will have nothing happen, the person who is meant to double check, will claim it is a random selection for double checking, hence how it slipped through.
The club undoubtedly were given a nod and some instruction on how to write said grant, they done what most would do.
The best resolution is for once one of the senior civil servants breaks ranks and goes on record that he was instructed but that won't happen due to self preservation, liking the system or union interference.
or
The club fulfill the grant requirements, which to be fair, if it succeeds in getting more people interested in getting out bar those with an interest already, is not a bad resolution, even if you think there are more worthy projects.
Basically we are pissing against the wind, and you are right, does not mean it should not be pointed out now and again.

Beasty

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Thereby putting the onus on the club to explain the situation rather than the government body and representative concerned.

Putting the onus on the club to clear things up and avoid further negative publicity and damage to the club

In my view all they really need to say is "Yes we've got the cash. We're expecting delivery of this equipment on such and such a date, and if anyone wants to have a nip down to have a look at it feel free to drop us a line". That should take a lot of the heat out of the situation for the club. Currently we have speculation that it won't be spent on what it was allocated for.

I think they could also help their case if they indicated that of course this equipment is not going to be used to generate income for the guy running the classes. Obviously they are using premises here and I presume the club pays for that. Maybe that's where all the fees go. If so, why not say so?

OleRodrigo

Just to point out, spinning classes and stationary machines are health and fitness devices, not sporting devices, so the terms of the application are met.

We're not talking about road racing team funding here, which is sort of implied when the application is labeled under ' sport '.

Fair play to them, they saw an angle within the rules and they went for it. Accountants and lawyers do it every day. People are just begrudging their win.