Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

CramCycle

RayCun wrote: »

They don't qualify. They don't come close to qualifying. Any "but maybe..." is just special pleading.

I don't know, I have not seen their application. I am in doubt that the intention meets the requirements, but that is not the same as the application meeting the requirements. Do you have a copy of it for us to review?

smacl

ronoc wrote: »

One one level it's great that the Taoiseach is a cycling enthusiast. That said it's a pity he couldn't think of the bigger picture for cycling in Ireland and use his influence to get something like the velodrome project off the ground.

Or given that obesity related illnesses are such a draw on the health services, start zero rating exercise equipment, gym membership etc... for VAT, and properly funding sports clubs from the point of view of large scale participation rather than just elite achievement. The bike to work scheme has been great, we could do with quite a few more imaginative policies of this nature.

Chuchote

smacl wrote: »

Or given that obesity related illnesses are such a draw on the health services, start zero rating exercise equipment, gym membership etc... for VAT, and properly funding sports clubs from the point of view of large scale participation rather than just elite achievement. The bike to work scheme has been great, we could do with quite a few more imaginative policies of this nature.

If you think what taking all those 5km journeys in cars does to the population - obesity, diabetes, heart disease, strokes, hypertension, respiratory disorders, and the latest is heightened Alzheimer's risk - it's obvious we have to stop cars being the main mode of transport.

RayCun

CramCycle wrote: »

I don't know, I have not seen their application. I am in doubt that the intention meets the requirements, but that is not the same as the application meeting the requirements. Do you have a copy of it for us to review?

we have a statement from the club PRO

“We are delivering on providing better health,” Mr Horkan said.

“Cumulatively, our 105 members lost 150 stone – 1.5 stone each – by participating in weekly club activities such as cycle rides, pilates and spinning.”

Mr Horkan said the €20,000 funding will enable the club to provide “proper exercise equipment” at its base.

“At the moment members that spin have to bring their own bikes and turboframes with them, ” he said.

Maybe their grant application says something completely different - maybe they applied for money to buy handbikes which they will use to provide health services to the specific client group of people without the use of their legs. Maybe they are going to spend it on guide dogs for the blind. But there is no reason to suppose that they are spending it on anything other they said they were spending it on, except that you are performing triple backwards somersaults to give a cycling club "the benefit of the doubt"

Chuchote

Maybe others will join now that they have the equipment, though the sessions sound kind of dear, scarcely fair. But they already have over 10% of the population of the village in the cycling club, which is pretty good.

RayCun

Chuchote wrote: »

Maybe others will join now that they have the equipment, though the sessions sound kind of dear, scarcely fair. But they already have over 10% of the population of the village in the cycling club, which is pretty good.

That's what a sports capital grant is for, not a health grant.

Seth Brundle

Playing devil's advocate here but could it not fall under both health and sport?

The obvious category would be sport but due to the health benefits...?

This time last year I did a cardiac rehab programme in Blanch Hospital. This was using gym equipment (mix of step, rowing and cycling machines along with treadmills). This was all monitored to check for cardiac issues.
Some of the goals of the programme (according to the HSE) are:
• Improve fitness levels.
• Improve stress management.

Is the use of the equipment in this situation a sports or health use?

RayCun

kbannon wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here but could it not fall under both health and sport?

The obvious category would be sport but due to the health benefits...?

Any sports club wanting to buy equipment could play this card.

That is why the application criteria say "an involvement in the provision of health services to specific client groups" and the application form specifically states that applications that fall under a different heading will not be accepted.

CramCycle

RayCun wrote: »

we have a statement from the club PRO



Maybe their grant application says something completely different - maybe they applied for money to buy handbikes which they will use to provide health services to the specific client group of people without the use of their legs. Maybe they are going to spend it on guide dogs for the blind. But there is no reason to suppose that they are spending it on anything other they said they were spending it on, except that you are performing triple backwards somersaults to give a cycling club "the benefit of the doubt"

It probably does, would not be the first time by a long shot. It would have taken some coaching from someone with strong knowledge of the process, to phrase it right though, potentially someone with knowledge of the weighting system, or with the potetnial to influence the weighting system (not the first time this stunt would have been pulled either). I imagine that they were told this was OK, the way things are done. They have a chance now to fufill the aims of the grant before they potentially get in trouble (which may never happen if no audit is initiated).

CramCycle

Weepsie wrote: »

You were in a clinical setting, monitored by clinical professionals. This is a private sports club which though open for membership, comes with a fee and then has added fees.

Do you have to be in the club to go to the classes?

ted1

Weepsie wrote: »

You were in a clinical setting, monitored by clinical professionals. This is a private sports club which though open for membership, comes with a fee and then has added fees.

Fees are irreverent , that's not an issue.
The hospitals also charge fees. Nursing homes have fees, I could go on.

RayCun

I have a set of weights I could borrow from my club.
I could set myself up as a physical trainer, charge people for weights sessions in the park.
People who did those sessions would get healthier.

That doesn't mean I'm eligible for a Health grant to buy more weights.
Or to buy heart rate monitors that I would lend to people who signed up for my running classes.
Even though people using that equipment would get healthier.

average_runner

Chuchote wrote: »

If you think what taking all those 5km journeys in cars does to the population - obesity, diabetes, heart disease, strokes, hypertension, respiratory disorders, and the latest is heightened Alzheimer's risk - it's obvious we have to stop cars being the main mode of transport.

What move people onto trains, buses etc, that won't get people fit. Not everyone wants to cycle, same way not every one wants to run or drive, so don't force stuff on people, government does that enough already.

Cycling or walking to work won't get people fit unless they adapt the life style to go with.

The most important part right now is to educate people about nutrition etc. The rest will follow.

You can get a bus/car to work every day and still be very fit from activities afterwards.
Cycling to work does not make you healthier, just look at some of the people cycling home tonight.

spyderski

spyderski

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146691222@N06/31745571750/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146691222@N06/31745572750/in/dateposted-public/

spyderski

Can't seem to post those links as pics, but they are the 2 relevant pages from the application sent in to the Dept of Health by The Taoiseach..

listermint

Looks like someone was schooled before that application went in.

including the capital letters in various parts of it.

RayCun

spyderski wrote: »

Can't seem to post those links as pics, but they are the 2 relevant pages from the application sent in to the Dept of Health by The Taoiseach..

reads like someone went in and added "and wider community" to every sentence :rolleyes:

But "club members AND the wider community" is not a specific client group.

long term goal of encouraging people to join our club. ffs

buffalo

What are 'spinning mats' ? Are they essentially towels on the floor to catch sweat?

Lusk_Doyle

buffalo wrote: »

What are 'spinning mats' ? Are they essentially towels on the floor to catch sweat?

Nah, they are what gov't ministers have a go on before they go outside to do a press release.

Seth Brundle

Weepsie wrote: »

You were in a clinical setting, monitored by clinical professionals. This is a private sports club which though open for membership, comes with a fee and then has added fees.

I was told by my cardiologist as recently as last Tuesday to join a gym to build and maintain fitness levels by taking part in their classes. I had previously mentioned that I cycle and they suggested the spinning classes.
They suggested the gym as I could be monitored whereas exercising on my own wouldn't do this.

AndrewJRenko

average_runner wrote: »

Chuchote wrote: »

If you think what taking all those 5km journeys in cars does to the population - obesity, diabetes, heart disease, strokes, hypertension, respiratory disorders, and the latest is heightened Alzheimer's risk - it's obvious we have to stop cars being the main mode of transport.

What move people onto trains, buses etc, that won't get people fit.  Not everyone wants to cycle, same way not every one wants to run or drive, so don't force stuff on people, government does that enough already.

Cycling or walking to work won't get people fit unless they adapt the life style to go with.

The most important part right now is to educate people about nutrition etc.  The rest will follow.

You can get a bus/car to work every day and still be very fit from activities afterwards.
Cycling to work does not make you healthier,  just look at some of the people cycling home tonight.

Just using public transport on its own is enough to show real health benefits over driving.

http://www.treehugger.com/health/3-surprising-health-benefits-linked-public-transportation.html

Getting more people cycling to work does make the population healthier. Like every health measure, it doesn't work for everybody, but as a whole, it does work.

AndrewJRenko

kbannon wrote: »

Weepsie wrote: »

You were in a clinical setting, monitored by clinical professionals. This is a private sports club which though open for membership, comes with a fee and then has added fees.

I was told by my cardiologist as recently as last Tuesday to join a gym to build and maintain fitness levels by taking part in their classes. I had previously mentioned that I cycle and they suggested the spinning classes.
They suggested the gym as I could be monitored whereas exercising on my own wouldn't do this.

I wonder if your cardiologist had considered the option of Strava type monitoring, which will create a pretty detailed log of activities, calories etc.

average_runner

kbannon wrote: »

I was told by my cardiologist as recently as last Tuesday to join a gym to build and maintain fitness levels by taking part in their classes. I had previously mentioned that I cycle and they suggested the spinning classes.
They suggested the gym as I could be monitored whereas exercising on my own wouldn't do this.

Who will monitored you?

average_runner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just using public transport on its own is enough to show real health benefits over driving.

http://www.treehugger.com/health/3-surprising-health-benefits-linked-public-transportation.html

Getting more people cycling to work does make the population healthier. Like every health measure, it doesn't work for everybody, but as a whole, it does work.

Only if they have a good diet, No point in cycling to work and then getting a muffin on way!

Andy Magic

spyderski wrote: »

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146691222@N06/31745571750/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146691222@N06/31745572750/in/dateposted-public/

I hope they at least got some wattbikes at that price :eek:

ford2600

average_runner wrote: »

Only if they have a good diet, No point in cycling to work and then getting a muffin on way!

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2014/07/30/bjsports-2013-093342.short?g=w_bjsm_ahead_tab

Health benefits of avoiding sedentary behavior independent of diet.

http://sigmanutrition.com/episode95/

Do yourself a favour and don't assume a less than lean cyclist isn't an animal; I've learned the hard way

Seth Brundle

average_runner wrote: »

Who will monitored you?

As I understand it, their logic was that in a gym, I can be assigned a programme to suit my needs, etc. This can be reviewed on an ongoing basis (any decent gym does this).
I would also be in an environment whereby should something occur, there are others nearby who could help me. If I went out jogging or cycling on my own, I'd be screwed should something happen.

average_runner

ford2600 wrote: »

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2014/07/30/bjsports-2013-093342.short?g=w_bjsm_ahead_tab

Health benefits of avoiding sedentary behavior independent of diet.

http://sigmanutrition.com/episode95/

Do yourself a favour and don't assume a less than lean cyclist isn't an animal; I've learned the hard way

Not assuming anything, also a heavy guy might be faster than you, doesn't mean he is fitter. Same applies the other way. Can have a lean guy on the bike all good but if diet is crap, there could be crap building on his arteries that you wouldn't know about!

average_runner

kbannon wrote: »

As I understand it, their logic was that in a gym, I can be assigned a programme to suit my needs, etc. This can be reviewed on an ongoing basis (any decent gym does this).
I would also be in an environment whereby should something occur, there are others nearby who could help me. If I went out jogging or cycling on my own, I'd be screwed should something happen.

It's along time since I did spinning, but didn't think spinning was an assigned program, instead it was a class where you work yourself to your limits.

You could run or cycle with a club instead.