Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

spyderski · 11-09-2017 11:36PM

Mattie500 wrote: »

Don't get the obsession here, we got 3k from the health fund for turbos... If anyone (apart from the issuing body) came looking for a statement etc as to how it was spent I too would be ignoring it.

When? There was no other Cycling club listed as having received Funding from Dept of Health fund last year. The terms of the grant specifically exclude Sports.

The "obsession" is based on the following:

1. A sports club got money from a fund which it should have been specifically excluded from. That club happened to have the Taoiseach at the time as a member.

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

3. This club is now seeking further funding for the same equipment from other sources, despite not having bought the equipment they have already been funded for.

But your attitude (and that of some others on here) towards accountability for the spending of public monies speaks volumes.

Kaisr Sose · 12-09-2017 12:27AM

Mattie500 wrote: »

Don't get the obsession here, we got 3k from the health fund for turbos... If anyone (apart from the issuing body) came looking for a statement etc as to how it was spent I too would be ignoring it.

That's appalling. Ok to ask for tax payers money but not ok to justify or be accountable as how it was spent?

There is no hope for this country if this attitude still prevails. The same people would be canvassing their local TD because of health cut backs or poor schools or roads infastructure. Parish pump all the way. The haves and want more...

Sure most of the local GAA infastructure is paid for by lottery grants with little coming from HQ. Why pay for it when someone else will!!

Every cycling club should apply for 20k for turbos and use this Mayo Club as the precedent. It would not take long for an enquiry into how the fund is being used to fund non-qualifying expense.

Jayop · 12-09-2017 12:55AM

It was like most things involving that fella dodgy parish pump stuff. Even his Westport colleague has milked every sports grant on earth for his parish so it's standard for them.

Jawgap · 12-09-2017 02:29AM

Mattie500 wrote: »

Don't get the obsession here, we got 3k from the health fund for turbos... If anyone (apart from the issuing body) came looking for a statement etc as to how it was spent I too would be ignoring it.

If I recall correctly no sports club - cycling or otherwise - tapped that fund for equipment, ever. A few sports clubs did to help fund community/outreach initiatives, but not kit.

Don't suppose you'd care to name the club and/or year the grant was awarded?

spyderski · 12-09-2017 10:58AM

Jawgap wrote: »

If I recall correctly no sports club - cycling or otherwise - tapped that fund for equipment, ever. A few sports clubs did to help fund community/outreach initiatives, but not kit.

Don't suppose you'd care to name the club and/or year the grant was awarded?

This. There's a common thread among many commentators who see nothing wrong with the whole situation. "Sure our club got money for turbos" "Sure isn't it great to encourage people to get exercise" "Won't it save on healthcare costs in the long run?"

All these points would be perfectly valid if you weren't taking into account the particular circumstances we are discussing here. If you can't see something seriously wrong with the whole scenario you are either wilfully ignoring the facts or are happy enough with blatant corruption in the distribution of state funds.

OleRodrigo · 12-09-2017 11:26AM

spyderski wrote: »

or are happy enough with blatant corruption in the distribution of state funds.

This.(:rolleyes:)

Because there is no blatant corruption in the distribution of state funds.There is only the ambiguity, benign bureaucracy and minor compromises that are required to engage successfully with day to day life, whatever walk that may be. Something that an increasing amount of posters of this forum seem unable to deal with.

There is Ireland's high status on transparency internationals list, which would have been higher if it weren't for the banking crisis and Nama. This indicates the run of the mill stuff like dispensing grants is above board.

Its impossible to operate a small country with a largely rural tradition without personal relationships having an effect. An inability to grasp this fact is usually met with cries of cronyism, which is a completely different thing altogether.

If there really is a problem here, you need to contact an investigative journalist or the authorities. Otherwise is just more useless internet whinging, formerly known as man in the pub talk.

brocbrocach · 12-09-2017 11:32AM

OleRodrigo wrote: »

This.(:rolleyes:)

Because there is no blatant corruption in the distribution of state funds.There is only the ambiguity, benign bureaucracy and minor compromises that are required to engage successfully with day to day life, whatever walk that may be. Something that an increasing amount of posters of this forum seem unable to deal with.

There is Ireland's high status on transparency internationals list, which would have been higher if it weren't for the banking crisis and Nama. This indicates the run of the mill stuff like dispensing grants is above board.

Its impossible to operate a small country with a largely rural tradition without personal relationships having an effect. An inability to grasp this fact is usually met with cries of cronyism, which is a completely different thing altogether.

If there really is a problem here, you need to contact an investigative journalist or the authorities. Otherwise is just more useless internet whinging, formerly known as man in the pub talk.

You seem to have a real problem with this thread. How many 'nothing to see here' responses is that? Just checked and it's 13.
Why so afraid of asking the questions? If there's nothing wrong no one will be afraid of the answer.

spyderski · 12-09-2017 11:33AM

Wow. So the fact that they got €20,000 of government money they were not entitled to doesn't bother you. Fair enough I suppose.

And the fact that they haven't spent the money on what it was given to them for doesn't even make you a TINY bit concerned?

And presumably you're happy enough that they're now portraying themselves as a charitable organisation to get another €40k, more than 50% of which is earmarked for essentially the same equipment as they got the grant for?

I'd suggest you have a more laissez faire attitude towards public money than most. To each his own. 13 posts to state your opinion that its all grand is pretty impressive though.

CramCycle · 12-09-2017 12:07PM

I don't blame the cycling club though. They would have been told what to apply for, who to apply to, who to remind etc. I would be hard pressed to find some other group who if given such instructions would not have followed them.

The only guilty parties here are the minister for asking it to be looked at again even though he should have flagged that it was not appropriate (and more likely it was a CS assistant who done this), the department for not chucking it once it came across their desk and so on. My big issue is that no one in that department will get in trouble for it, any job I have been in you would get chucked for it. Might inspire the person who pushed it to come forward and highlight who told them to let it through and so on....

I imagine the Taoiseach if any way involved has no tangible way of being found out, he would be mighty foolish if he was.

ted1 · 12-09-2017 12:19PM

spyderski wrote: »

Wow. So the fact that they got €20,000 of government money they were not entitled to doesn't bother you. Fair enough I suppose.

And the fact that they haven't spent the money on what it was given to them for doesn't even make you a TINY bit concerned?

And presumably you're happy enough that they're now portraying themselves as a charitable organisation to get another €40k, more than 50% of which is earmarked for essentially the same equipment as they got the grant for?

I'd suggest you have a more laissez faire attitude towards public money than most. To each his own. 13 posts to state your opinion that its all grand is pretty impressive though.

Where havey claimed to be a charity ?

MayoAreMagic · 12-09-2017 01:22PM

brocbrocach wrote: »

You seem to have a real problem with this thread. How many 'nothing to see here' responses is that? Just checked and it's 13.
Why so afraid of asking the questions? If there's nothing wrong no one will be afraid of the answer.

Well this is my problem with this thread tbh. Anyone trying to make an argument the other way seems to be painted as having some ulterior motive. I wonder how many posts spyderski has on the topic? What does that suggest about his/her input? Not a whole lot really, but it can be used in the same way, if people want to be disingenuous about it in the other direction.

spyderski wrote: »

1. A sports club got money from a fund which it should have been specifically excluded from. That club happened to have the Taoiseach at the time as a member.

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

3. This club is now seeking further funding for the same equipment from other sources, despite not having bought the equipment they have already been funded for.

1. Could it be argued the spin bikes are for classes etc is more of a social/health club in an under-developed area, rather than a sports club? If it is a sports club then who are they competing against? Is a walking club a sports club? Or just a club for people who want to get healthier and socialise a bit without winning or losing involved. Id suggest it is in far more of a grey area than a nailed on sports club. It isn't like a gaa club or a soccer club for example.

2. You don't know what they have spent man. That was established already. You are guessing on the back of an ad that was placed, and really and truly, you should point that out rather than stating as fact that they haven't spent it. Like for all we know, it could just be an old ad. You simply don't have enough to make that leap. It is actually far more likely, seeing how some of these things work in the past, that they haven't even got it yet.

3. Did you say they were looking for money for turbos now? So not the same equipment then... And again, you claim they haven't bought it, when you don't know for sure what they have done.

Now, if I go down the same route as brocbrocach, I could go on about a biased argument, and ask why you are jumping to biased conclusions etc etc. But I would rather just discuss the details fairly and openly.

As for the club not responding to random people requesting info and nosing around, to expect any different is crazy. Did anyone else on the list do the same?

RayCun · 12-09-2017 01:31PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well this is my problem with this thread tbh. Anyone trying to make an argument the other way seems to be painted as having some ulterior motive.

I'm not suggesting you have an ulterior motive, but I'm amused at the user name...

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

1. Could it be argued the spin bikes are for classes etc is more of a social/health club in an under-developed area, rather than a sports club?

This was discussed to death upthread.
There are clear definitions in the grant application of who is entitled to apply for the grant, and what it is supposed to fund.
If the club was touring old folks homes with the spin bikes, or using them to help some similar group, they would qualify.
But they're not. They want to buy spin bikes for their members, for classes they are charging people to attend.

"Cycling is good for your health" doesn't mean you can get a grant from the Department of Health to buy a bike.

spyderski · 12-09-2017 01:37PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is actually far more likely, seeing how some of these things work in the past, that they haven't even got it yet.

It is not just unlikely, it's categorically wrong. The FACT is that the money was paid to the club by EFT on or about the 29/11/16. You seem to forget I've FOI'd all of this.

I'm dealing in hard facts, sent to me by the Dept of Health. You seem intent on trying to dispel these hard facts with maybes. Please stop - you're wasting your time.

spyderski · 12-09-2017 01:41PM

ted1 wrote: »

Where havey claimed to be a charity ?

"Islandeady Cycling Club is a non profit/charity with an active membership of 120."

Link here: http://mayo.designwest.ie/islandeady-cycling-club/

magicbastarder · 12-09-2017 02:05PM

it's one thing claiming to be a 'non-profit' as that could just be a casual 'we're an organisation which doesn't make a profit', which you'd forgive.
it's quite another to bandy around the word 'charity' if you're not actually a registered charity.

ted1 · 12-09-2017 02:07PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's one thing claiming to be a 'non-profit' as that could just be a casual 'we're an organisation which doesn't make a profit', which you'd forgive.
it's quite another to bandy around the word 'charity' if you're not actually a registered charity.

The link that the op posted are that, but it's not on their site , did the club sanction the text ? It's on a 3rd party site.

spyderski · 12-09-2017 02:11PM

I feel I have to keep saying this, but just to reiterate, I have no problem with the club's stated aim of promoting health and exercise, and accessibility to same for all regardless of ability. It just seems they are going about raising funding for same in a less than forthright, transparent and proper manner.

The issues around personal property and family involvement do nothing to lessen the possibility that something less than straightforward is going on here. The start of the problem stems from the indisputable fact that they did not meet the criteria for the Lottery funding. I could be completely wrong about the rest, and would be delighted to be proved so, but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

magicbastarder · 12-09-2017 02:12PM

heh, it's on a page seeking to raise 50k for the club so i hope the club are aware of it!

brocbrocach · 12-09-2017 02:17PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well this is my problem with this thread tbh. Anyone trying to make an argument the other way seems to be painted as having some ulterior motive. I wonder how many posts spyderski has on the topic? What does that suggest about his/her input? Not a whole lot really, but it can be used in the same way, if people want to be disingenuous about it in the other direction.

I have no doubt whatsoever that spyderski thinks that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. His input and his repeated posting is driven by that, I can see that and I can see why that is (though I don't know if he has another motive as well). I'm not really as convinced as he is but what I 100% can't see is a fair reason why people would be trying to shut down the questioning. What's the harm in checking?
Unfortunately everything about Irish political life suggests that you have to doubt coincidences and lucky breaks, a bit like pro cycling.

spyderski · 12-09-2017 02:31PM

In relation to those who doubt my motives. I have never got involved in looking into anything like this before, and have no knowledge or involvement with any of the parties concerned. As I said previously, I was initially interested as I'm involved in cycling and interested in politics. As I looked further into the issue, more and more of the story smelled fishy, so I decided to run with it and see if I got anywhere. I know enough about the way things work in Ireland that I'm not that shocked at any of it, but now I've spent this much time on it, I may as well see it through. If I don't see evidence that they've bought the spin bikes, I'll be following it up. Probably a complete waste of my time, but sure I've got this far I may as well stick around to see what happens ;-)

MayoAreMagic · 12-09-2017 03:26PM

spyderski wrote: »

It is not just unlikely, it's categorically wrong. The FACT is that the money was paid to the club by EFT on or about the 29/11/16. You seem to forget I've FOI'd all of this.

I'm dealing in hard facts, sent to me by the Dept of Health. You seem intent on trying to dispel these hard facts with maybes. Please stop - you're wasting your time.

Fair enough, I accept that they received the money on the back of that.

However, can you provide the dates on which the money was spent, and also some proof? Since you are claiming that this is a fact also...

This is my gripe, you don't actually have anything to this effect - and that is a fact too. So it is a bit unfair to be claiming you do, particularly over and over again - it is misleading. If you did in fact stick to the facts, as you claim, I wouldn't have an issue. Don't you see that it is kinda disingenuous to be doing that?

Im actually also curious as to how the money was used, if at all yet, but if it was used properly - and frankly even if it wasn't spin bikes but something similar and to the same ends, Id have no issue with that - some might but I wouldn't.

MayoAreMagic · 12-09-2017 03:37PM

brocbrocach wrote: »

I have no doubt whatsoever that spyderski thinks that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. His input and his repeated posting is driven by that, I can see that and I can see why that is (though I don't know if he has another motive as well). I'm not really as convinced as he is but what I 100% can't see is a fair reason why people would be trying to shut down the questioning. What's the harm in checking?
Unfortunately everything about Irish political life suggests that you have to doubt coincidences and lucky breaks, a bit like pro cycling.

I have no issue with people checking, in fact Id agree with it. But he is claiming to know things that he doesn't - crucial details at that, regarding the spending of the monies involved here. Which has me wondering, why? If that were to happen in court with a witness for example, the person would be discredited. I know this isn't a court of law, but the logic remains, why pretend?

In reality they might have bought them and could be using them as we speak, they might be shopping around, the guy running the classes might be doing his own thing. I just don't get the forcefulness of the thing, when there isn't really a whole lot to go off to suggest that the club have acted inappropriately with the money.

spyderski · 12-09-2017 03:38PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Fair enough, I accept that they received the money on the back of that.

However, can you provide the dates on which the money was spent, and also some proof? Since you are claiming that this is a fact also...

This is my gripe, you don't actually have anything to this effect - and that is a fact too. So it is a bit unfair to be claiming you do, particularly over and over again - it is misleading. If you did in fact stick to the facts, as you claim, I wouldn't have an issue. Don't you see that it is kinda disingenuous to be doing that?

Im actually also curious as to how the money was used, if at all yet, but if it was used properly - and frankly even if it wasn't spin bikes but something similar and to the same ends, Id have no issue with that - some might but I wouldn't.

A fair enough comment. Leaving aside the fundamental fact that they did not qualify to get the €20k grant in the first place, I'll try to answer your points:

Firstly, I can't provide dates when the money was spent as I don't believe it has been spent. At least not as intended.

My basis for this assertion is that as of last April, when their indoor classes ended, there was pictures posted on FB of club members on various turbo trainers, having been told that they had to bring their own turbos and bikes to each session.

My basis for believing they have still not bought the spin bikes is that the club seem to put up photos of every hi-vis jersey and every Ice-cream eaten by a member; I can't believe they wouldn't put up a photo of 25 shiny new spin bikes arriving at the clubhouse. I could be wrong and they could be sitting in a shed somewhere waiting for the evenings to draw in.

My doubt is further compounded by the fact that they are now seeking additional funding to buy 10 high-end smart trainers, TV's etc.

As I said yesterday, until I see otherwise, it looks like all income and no visible expenditure.

spyderski · 12-09-2017 03:42PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But he is claiming to know things that he doesn't - crucial details at that, regarding the spending of the monies involved here.

Please show me where I have claimed to know what the money has been spent on. I have made no assertions whatsoever as to this. You're now just making stuff up. I have to operate on the belief the money has not been spent at all. Because if it's been spent on anything other than spin bikes, that's going to be a whole other issue, one involving the Gardai.

D3PO · 12-09-2017 03:54PM

spyderski wrote: »

"Islandeady Cycling Club is a non profit/charity with an active membership of 120."

Link here: http://mayo.designwest.ie/islandeady-cycling-club/

by definition all sports clubs are non profit so whilst its stretching things a bit its not actually a misrepresentation to say they are a non profit club / organisation.

MayoAreMagic · 12-09-2017 03:58PM

spyderski wrote: »

A fair enough comment. Leaving aside the fundamental fact that they did not qualify to get the €20k grant in the first place, I'll try to answer your points:

Firstly, I can't provide dates when the money was spent as I don't believe it has been spent. At least not as intended.

My basis for this assertion is that as of last April, when their indoor classes ended, there was pictures posted on FB of club members on various turbo trainers, having been told that they had to bring their own turbos and bikes to each session.

My basis for believing they have still not bought the spin bikes is that the club seem to put up photos of every hi-vis jersey and every Ice-cream eaten by a member; I can't believe they wouldn't put up a photo of 25 shiny new spin bikes arriving at the clubhouse. I could be wrong and they could be sitting in a shed somewhere waiting for the evenings to draw in.

My doubt is further compounded by the fact that they are now seeking additional funding to buy 10 high-end smart trainers, TV's etc.

As I said yesterday, until I see otherwise, it looks like all income and no visible expenditure.

Well my take is that a rural club of this type should in fact qualify, if everything is above board of course. Efforts need to be made to stop the drag of people to the capital and this fits into that remit - or so I would think anyway. People mightn't agree and fair enough.

Anyway, but again, there is a fair bit of assumption going on there. Is that person putting up the photos the only show in town? Or is it possible that there is more going on? I've been involved in sports clubs myself and from experience I know that these things move slowly, and there can be a lot of moving parts. I also know that if you go by what appears on facebook only, you don't know a whole lot of the goings on in a club.

Another possibility is maybe they have been advised to keep the head down after all the media interest, and keep the bikes out of the media spotlight? And while it is working yourself into a frenzy, it is in fact keeping the papers off their backs at the same time. Maybe a few emails and a thread on boards from a disgruntled few, is preferable to being stuck in the paper.

I agree that your assertions are a possibility. But they clearly are not the only one, that is what Im trying to say

D3PO · 12-09-2017 03:59PM

if Im not mistaken they have till the end of this calendar year to spend he funds right ? I dont disagree with you following up to ensure it was spent on what the grant was provided for especially given the dubious nature as to weather they should have received it or not but you are taking some pretty big leaps to be fair.

i mean a post from feb telling people to bring their bikes, perhaps the spin bikes hadnt been delivered yet ? perhaps they hadnt been ordered at that point ?

I mean the least you could do if you want to be thorough here is attend one of the spin classes and see first hand what the situation is. Might be a good idea rather than making assumptions right ?

ford2600 · 12-09-2017 03:59PM

Weepsie wrote: »

In a week when an utterly failed and deeply compromised Garda Commish gets a 300 k pay off, and 90 k a year and we shrug our shoulders this is small, but it's another indication of just how fuppin backward Ireland is but ah yeah, we're grand on the index.. nonsense.

All countries waste public money; it is human nature. We make a mess of a lot of things, but so does everyone else; some a little better most way worse.

UK, Germany, Denmark and Sweden etc probably better the rest of Europe worse or about the same.

Most of my dealing with planners, departments etc they are sticklers for the rules not the Banana Republic we like to sometimes paint ourselves.

How else could we have gotten rid of our commissioner? She is entitled to the same employment protections as the rest of us in this republic, even if it is public service?

As they say in Kerry "it is easy be generous with the neighbour's donkey"

spyderski · 12-09-2017 04:00PM

D3PO wrote: »

by definition all sports clubs are non profit so whilst its stretching things a bit its not actually a misrepresentation to say they are a non profit club / organisation.

Agreed. But no-one has an issue with the non-profit part. It's more the word CHARITY.

For what it's worth, I don't believe they're consciously representing themselves as an actual charity, but the loose use of language is perhaps indicative of a willingness to stretch the truth somewhat.

MayoAreMagic · 12-09-2017 04:02PM

spyderski wrote: »

Please show me where I have claimed to know what the money has been spent on. I have made no assertions whatsoever as to this. You're now just making stuff up. I have to operate on the belief the money has not been spent at all. Because if it's been spent on anything other than spin bikes, that's going to be a whole other issue, one involving the Gardai.

Apologies, you in fact said,

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

But you don't know if they have or not.

Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

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