Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

terrydel

spyderski wrote: »

No, I'm not. I came back to this thread to follow up as to when the €20k which was wrongly granted to the club was going to be spent for its intended purpose. When I did a google search to see if they had, I found that they're trying to raise another €40k from private donors for the same equipment.

Some of the funds are to be allocated to the purchase of hand cycles. However, the majority is to buy high end smart trainers, and associated electronics which are designed for committed athletes.

You seem to be trying to dismiss obvious and legitimate concerns about governance for the sake of it.

Thats Ireland for you, very few give a **** and thats why this behaviour is rife across all walks of life and all sections of society.
Wouldnt surprise me at all if the 20k was needed for something else and a nudge and a wink here told them they'd get it via the means that they did.
When its spent on its intended purpose i'll admit I'm wrong but wont be holding my breath.

mugsymugsy

terrydel wrote: »

Thats Ireland for you, very few give a **** and thats why this behaviour is rife across all walks of life and all sections of society.
Wouldnt surprise me at all if the 20k was needed for something else and a nudge and a wink here told them they'd get it via the means that they did.
When its spent on its intended purpose i'll admit I'm wrong but wont be holding my breath.

I would be delighted if this equipment was purchased by the government /department of health or whatever bucket off money and put in a community hall / leisure centre and used by variety of groups and open cycling to a wider audience for a nominal fee.

Weepsie

750 seems incredibly cheap for hand cycles unless they are something else entirely or there is some incentive for buying them

MayoAreMagic

Weepsie wrote: »

Particularly when it's on record that they charged for the spinning classes....

In fairness, why would they not charge for the spinning classes though? Do many places you know off offer such services for free? I don't know of any to be honest about it.

Requests for an explanation of their spending is reasonable, but people should be careful that they aren't crying foul when unrealistic expectations are not met. Every club out there is out to fundraise as best they can, because that is how clubs stay afloat.

Maybe Im missing something, but someone posted a list of spending that would be around 50k. If they got 20k, then surely they cant spend it yet because they need to fundraise more money to do so?

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Maybe Im missing something, but someone posted a list of spending that would be around 50k. If they got 20k, then surely they cant spend it yet because they need to fundraise more money to do so?

The €20k was granted based on pro-forma invoices supplied for €25k of Spin bikes, the balance of which was to be raised by the club. I have all the details from the FOI I did in December. Under the terms of the Dept of Health funding, the €20k has to be spent by the end of the financial year it's paid. It was paid last November.

This "new" $50k is earmarked to be spent on Wahoo Kickr Smart trainers, Smart Tv's and hand cycles. This is completely separate to the spin bike purchase, and is being raised from private donations in the USA.

I have no problem with them raising money however they see fit (as long as they're not misreprenting themselves), but not when they've already been given €20k that they haven't spent, money which was given to them for a very similar purpose.

spyderski

As regards charging for the spin classes, I don't have a problem with that per se, but if the grant has not been spent on the spin bikes, what are they doing with the money? Seems to be all income and no expenditure....

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

The €20k was granted based on pro-forma invoices supplied for €25k of Spin bikes, the balance of which was to be raised by the club. I have all the details from the FOI I did in December. Under the terms of the Dept of Health funding, the €20k has to be spent by the end of the financial year it's paid. It was paid last November.

This "new" $50k is earmarked to be spent on Wahoo Kickr Smart trainers, Smart Tv's and hand cycles. This is completely separate to the spin bike purchase, and is being raised from private donations in the USA.

I have no problem with them raising money however they see fit (as long as they're not misreprenting themselves), but not when they've already been given €20k that they haven't spent, money which was given to them for a very similar purpose.

Would the advertisement of spinning classes not suggest that they did spend it though?

spyderski

If you read up a bit in the thread all will be explained. They were running spinning classes for members who were required to bring their own bikes and turbos. The spin bikes do not appear to have been purchased. Turbos and spin bikes are 2 different things. The grant was given specifically for the purchase of spin bikes.

They do now appear to be also trying to buy high end turbo trainers using another source of funding.

This cottage must be a fair size to accommodate all this equipment & people.

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

If you read up a bit in the thread all will be explained. They were running spinning classes for members who were required to bring their own bikes and turbos. The spin bikes do not appear to have been purchased. Turbos and spin bikes are 2 different things. The grant was given specifically for the purchase of spin bikes.

They do now appear to be also trying to buy high end turbo trainers using another source of funding.

This cottage must be a fair size to accommodate all this equipment & people.

But there is no mention of bringing their own bikes and turbos in the ad that was posted here - wouldn't that suggest that they were in fact bought?

Im just wondering if there is anything suggesting that the money hasn't been used exactly as was intended, and that this is now the next step in the development for the club and is completely legitimate? There doesn't seem to be in fairness. Like I would have thought that that would be a fairly important bit of info for people to be getting ticked off about it.

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But there is no mention of bringing their own bikes and turbos in the ad that was posted here - wouldn't that suggest that they were in fact bought?

Im just wondering if there is anything suggesting that the money hasn't been used exactly as was intended, and that this is now the next step in the development for the club and is completely legitimate? There doesn't seem to be in fairness. Like I would have thought that that would be a fairly important bit of info for people to be getting ticked off about it.

The ad I posted said "Please bring - water bottles - turbo frame and front riser - hand towel - bike and plenty of energy - "

There are also pictures of members on turbo trainers. Maybe they have bought the spin bikes and are hiding them in a shed or something, but there's no evidence they've bought them. Again, please have a read through the thread, all your points have been addressed comprehensively, it's pointless regurgitating it.

velo.2010

Hmm, would the original intention for the e20.000 have been to buy the spin bikes and use them for 'out of hours' business besides the regular scheduled and charity related spin classes.... but they were spooked by the attention they were getting for the grant and held off buying the spin bikes?

Perhaps, the intention now is to source the funding for spin bikes from other means, as mentioned in this America-Mayo fund, and they intend to give the e20,000 back to the Department when they do get the outside funds.

Strong whiff of Celtic Tiger cronyism about it, whatever the actual case.

MayoAreMagic

EC1000 wrote: »

I put in a successful application for 10k for watt bikes for my local tri club about 3 years ago. It was almost two years before we actually got our hands on them and the money certainly wasn't resting in our account all that time! You have to pay the first 10% yourself from your own funds and can only draw down the other 90% of the funds on the basis of an invoice from the supplier for the remainder....

Well I have been reading it back, but all Im seeing is stuff about Enda Kenny keeping his head down, and a raft of other glib stuff that is a good one liner but doesnt actually prove very much. The above was the most relevant post I found and it actually argues the other side of the case...

Im from the same county, but I will point out that I know nothing and have no involvement in this club (mayo is a big place). If they have done something wrong then they deserve to be punished, but there is no suggestion that they have done anything out of the ordinary, as the above proves. It just seems to be a bit of a crusade for one or two, because they got the money from an outgoing head of state (as if that is something new).

Eamonnator

Has the club, concerned, made any public statement about this matter?

Weepsie

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well I have been reading it back, but all Im seeing is stuff about Enda Kenny keeping his head down, and a raft of other glib stuff that is a good one liner but doesnt actually prove very much. The above was the most relevant post I found and it actually argues the other side of the case...

Im from the same county, but I will point out that I know nothing and have no involvement in this club (mayo is a big place). If they have done something wrong then they deserve to be punished, but there is no suggestion that they have done anything out of the ordinary, as the above proves. It just seems to be a bit of a crusade for one or two, because they got the money from an outgoing head of state (as if that is something new).

The above post applied to a different fund though so it's not the same. They were not then, nor ever eligible to receive money from this fund. Yet on someones advice they got 20 k, (having previously received money from another fund, albeit the correct one).

Their application seemed to land on the right persons desk, right on the deadline too it must be added, and then got looked at again. IT should have been thrown out as they were not eligible!

spyderski

Eamonnator wrote: »

Has the club, concerned, made any public statement about this matter?

They initially made a public statement to say that Enda had no involvement whatsoever in the awarding of the grant, and knew nothing about it. When it was FOI'd it became apparent that he had sent 2 emails about it. The club have been silent since.

flutered

greenspurs wrote: »

I might send an aul email off to their secretary and ask a few questions :rolleyes:

let us know how you fare out

Beasty

Eamonnator wrote: »

Has the club, concerned, made any public statement about this matter?

They could call a halt to all this controversy by doing so

I cannot understand how an organisation with nothing to hide would not do so

Mattie500

Don't get the obsession here, we got 3k from the health fund for turbos... If anyone (apart from the issuing body) came looking for a statement etc as to how it was spent I too would be ignoring it.

spyderski

Mattie500 wrote: »

Don't get the obsession here, we got 3k from the health fund for turbos... If anyone (apart from the issuing body) came looking for a statement etc as to how it was spent I too would be ignoring it.

When? There was no other Cycling club listed as having received Funding from Dept of Health fund last year. The terms of the grant specifically exclude Sports.

The "obsession" is based on the following:

1. A sports club got money from a fund which it should have been specifically excluded from. That club happened to have the Taoiseach at the time as a member.

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

3. This club is now seeking further funding for the same equipment from other sources, despite not having bought the equipment they have already been funded for.

But your attitude (and that of some others on here) towards accountability for the spending of public monies speaks volumes.

Kaisr Sose

Mattie500 wrote: »

Don't get the obsession here, we got 3k from the health fund for turbos... If anyone (apart from the issuing body) came looking for a statement etc as to how it was spent I too would be ignoring it.

That's appalling. Ok to ask for tax payers money but not ok to justify or be accountable as how it was spent?

There is no hope for this country if this attitude still prevails. The same people would be canvassing their local TD because of health cut backs or poor schools or roads infastructure. Parish pump all the way. The haves and want more...

Sure most of the local GAA infastructure is paid for by lottery grants with little coming from HQ. Why pay for it when someone else will!!

Every cycling club should apply for 20k for turbos and use this Mayo Club as the precedent. It would not take long for an enquiry into how the fund is being used to fund non-qualifying expense.

Jayop

It was like most things involving that fella dodgy parish pump stuff. Even his Westport colleague has milked every sports grant on earth for his parish so it's standard for them.

Jawgap

Mattie500 wrote: »

Don't get the obsession here, we got 3k from the health fund for turbos... If anyone (apart from the issuing body) came looking for a statement etc as to how it was spent I too would be ignoring it.

If I recall correctly no sports club - cycling or otherwise - tapped that fund for equipment, ever. A few sports clubs did to help fund community/outreach initiatives, but not kit.

Don't suppose you'd care to name the club and/or year the grant was awarded?

spyderski

Jawgap wrote: »

If I recall correctly no sports club - cycling or otherwise - tapped that fund for equipment, ever. A few sports clubs did to help fund community/outreach initiatives, but not kit.

Don't suppose you'd care to name the club and/or year the grant was awarded?

This. There's a common thread among many commentators who see nothing wrong with the whole situation. "Sure our club got money for turbos" "Sure isn't it great to encourage people to get exercise" "Won't it save on healthcare costs in the long run?"

All these points would be perfectly valid if you weren't taking into account the particular circumstances we are discussing here. If you can't see something seriously wrong with the whole scenario you are either wilfully ignoring the facts or are happy enough with blatant corruption in the distribution of state funds.

OleRodrigo

spyderski wrote: »

or are happy enough with blatant corruption in the distribution of state funds.

This.(:rolleyes:)

Because there is no blatant corruption in the distribution of state funds.There is only the ambiguity, benign bureaucracy and minor compromises that are required to engage successfully with day to day life, whatever walk that may be. Something that an increasing amount of posters of this forum seem unable to deal with.

There is Ireland's high status on transparency internationals list, which would have been higher if it weren't for the banking crisis and Nama. This indicates the run of the mill stuff like dispensing grants is above board.

Its impossible to operate a small country with a largely rural tradition without personal relationships having an effect. An inability to grasp this fact is usually met with cries of cronyism, which is a completely different thing altogether.

If there really is a problem here, you need to contact an investigative journalist or the authorities. Otherwise is just more useless internet whinging, formerly known as man in the pub talk.

brocbrocach

OleRodrigo wrote: »

This.(:rolleyes:)

Because there is no blatant corruption in the distribution of state funds.There is only the ambiguity, benign bureaucracy and minor compromises that are required to engage successfully with day to day life, whatever walk that may be. Something that an increasing amount of posters of this forum seem unable to deal with.

There is Ireland's high status on transparency internationals list, which would have been higher if it weren't for the banking crisis and Nama. This indicates the run of the mill stuff like dispensing grants is above board.

Its impossible to operate a small country with a largely rural tradition without personal relationships having an effect. An inability to grasp this fact is usually met with cries of cronyism, which is a completely different thing altogether.

If there really is a problem here, you need to contact an investigative journalist or the authorities. Otherwise is just more useless internet whinging, formerly known as man in the pub talk.

You seem to have a real problem with this thread. How many 'nothing to see here' responses is that? Just checked and it's 13.
Why so afraid of asking the questions? If there's nothing wrong no one will be afraid of the answer.

spyderski

Wow. So the fact that they got €20,000 of government money they were not entitled to doesn't bother you. Fair enough I suppose.

And the fact that they haven't spent the money on what it was given to them for doesn't even make you a TINY bit concerned?

And presumably you're happy enough that they're now portraying themselves as a charitable organisation to get another €40k, more than 50% of which is earmarked for essentially the same equipment as they got the grant for?

I'd suggest you have a more laissez faire attitude towards public money than most. To each his own. 13 posts to state your opinion that its all grand is pretty impressive though.

CramCycle

I don't blame the cycling club though. They would have been told what to apply for, who to apply to, who to remind etc. I would be hard pressed to find some other group who if given such instructions would not have followed them.

The only guilty parties here are the minister for asking it to be looked at again even though he should have flagged that it was not appropriate (and more likely it was a CS assistant who done this), the department for not chucking it once it came across their desk and so on. My big issue is that no one in that department will get in trouble for it, any job I have been in you would get chucked for it. Might inspire the person who pushed it to come forward and highlight who told them to let it through and so on....

I imagine the Taoiseach if any way involved has no tangible way of being found out, he would be mighty foolish if he was.

ted1

spyderski wrote: »

Wow. So the fact that they got €20,000 of government money they were not entitled to doesn't bother you. Fair enough I suppose.

And the fact that they haven't spent the money on what it was given to them for doesn't even make you a TINY bit concerned?

And presumably you're happy enough that they're now portraying themselves as a charitable organisation to get another €40k, more than 50% of which is earmarked for essentially the same equipment as they got the grant for?

I'd suggest you have a more laissez faire attitude towards public money than most. To each his own. 13 posts to state your opinion that its all grand is pretty impressive though.

Where havey claimed to be a charity ?

MayoAreMagic

brocbrocach wrote: »

You seem to have a real problem with this thread. How many 'nothing to see here' responses is that? Just checked and it's 13.
Why so afraid of asking the questions? If there's nothing wrong no one will be afraid of the answer.

Well this is my problem with this thread tbh. Anyone trying to make an argument the other way seems to be painted as having some ulterior motive. I wonder how many posts spyderski has on the topic? What does that suggest about his/her input? Not a whole lot really, but it can be used in the same way, if people want to be disingenuous about it in the other direction.

spyderski wrote: »

1. A sports club got money from a fund which it should have been specifically excluded from. That club happened to have the Taoiseach at the time as a member.

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

3. This club is now seeking further funding for the same equipment from other sources, despite not having bought the equipment they have already been funded for.

1. Could it be argued the spin bikes are for classes etc is more of a social/health club in an under-developed area, rather than a sports club? If it is a sports club then who are they competing against? Is a walking club a sports club? Or just a club for people who want to get healthier and socialise a bit without winning or losing involved. Id suggest it is in far more of a grey area than a nailed on sports club. It isn't like a gaa club or a soccer club for example.

2. You don't know what they have spent man. That was established already. You are guessing on the back of an ad that was placed, and really and truly, you should point that out rather than stating as fact that they haven't spent it. Like for all we know, it could just be an old ad. You simply don't have enough to make that leap. It is actually far more likely, seeing how some of these things work in the past, that they haven't even got it yet.

3. Did you say they were looking for money for turbos now? So not the same equipment then... And again, you claim they haven't bought it, when you don't know for sure what they have done.

Now, if I go down the same route as brocbrocach, I could go on about a biased argument, and ask why you are jumping to biased conclusions etc etc. But I would rather just discuss the details fairly and openly.

As for the club not responding to random people requesting info and nosing around, to expect any different is crazy. Did anyone else on the list do the same?

RayCun

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well this is my problem with this thread tbh. Anyone trying to make an argument the other way seems to be painted as having some ulterior motive.

I'm not suggesting you have an ulterior motive, but I'm amused at the user name...

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

1. Could it be argued the spin bikes are for classes etc is more of a social/health club in an under-developed area, rather than a sports club?

This was discussed to death upthread.
There are clear definitions in the grant application of who is entitled to apply for the grant, and what it is supposed to fund.
If the club was touring old folks homes with the spin bikes, or using them to help some similar group, they would qualify.
But they're not. They want to buy spin bikes for their members, for classes they are charging people to attend.

"Cycling is good for your health" doesn't mean you can get a grant from the Department of Health to buy a bike.