Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Apologies, you in fact said,

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

But you don't know if they have or not.

Very true. But you have no evidence that they have and its pretty difficult to prove something in the negative. However the balance of probability leads me to believe that if 25 spin bikes had been delivered to a small club house there'd be some mention of it somewhere. And If they haven't, its a legitimate question to ask why not, as the time of year for their use is upon us, and the club have been in funds since December last.

I don't expect anyone from the club to come on here and let us know they have bought them or that they are on their way, as the club are not answerable to me. It would make it a lot easier though....

flutered

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Apologies, you in fact said,

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

But you don't know if they have or not.

which is the crux of the issue

brocbrocach

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well my take is that a rural club of this type should in fact qualify, if everything is above board of course. Efforts need to be made to stop the drag of people to the capital and this fits into that remit - or so I would think anyway. People mightn't agree and fair enough.

But it does not qualify. Nobody else the length and breadth of the land got it for the same reason. So the only place where the drag to the capital will be reversed is the former Taoiseach's backyard? Nice to be them.
Now, what happened to the money secured by the Taoiseach once it got into the hands of the Taoiseach's friend and his son, that's another question again. I'd agree with you that it's up to whoever is suggesting impropriety to gather the facts.

MayoAreMagic

I don't, but then I don't have any proof for any of the others awarded monies have done so either... Do you?

This is my point, there isn't enough info here to be painting them in such a light. If there was, fair enough. But in reality, there isn't, so why is it happening? Is it just a hangover from a general dislike of Enda Kenny? It would be bad form if it was in fairness..

Personally, I don't like the idea that what could be perfectly honest people, trying to do some good in their area, are being portrayed in such a light, with no concrete proof, or even decent probably cause. Until people have proper reason to do so, surely they should show a bit of restraint on that front? Innocent 'til proven guilty and all that?

Beasty

Innocent until proven guilty yes. But no attempt whatsoever to defend and indeed explain the position is what is frustrating everyone. Do you have any idea why they choose to bury their heads on this one?

D3PO

Beasty wrote: »

Innocent until proven guilty yes. But no attempt whatsoever to defend and indeed explain the position is what is frustrating everyone. Do you have any idea why they choose to bury their heads on this one?

where have they officially been asked about this outside of this thread ive seen no mention of this in media or anywhere else ?

im not trying to defend them if they are in the wrong but there seems to be a bit of a pitchfork mentality going on here at the moment. In all fairness they arent answerable to a boards thread and if this is the only place the question has been asked and no formal ask has been made then i think the statement that they have made no attempt to explain is unfair.

MayoAreMagic

brocbrocach wrote: »

But it does not qualify. Nobody else the length and breadth of the land got it for the same reason. So the only place where the drag to the capital will be reversed is the former Taoiseach's backyard? Nice to be them.
Now, what happened to the money secured by the Taoiseach once it got into the hands of the Taoiseach's friend and his son, that's another question again. I'd agree with you that it's up to whoever is suggesting impropriety to gather the facts.

Well frankly, yes it is. We all know politics works that way and we are being either naïve or disingenuous if we suggest otherwise. It was the case before Kenny, it will be the case afterwards too. An odd stroke will be pulled to look after their own, nothing too extreme but all politics is local and this is how that manifests itself. It is a bit ridiculous to be giving out about Kenny, when every elected politician is doing the same thing, probably in your own constituency too. We can feign indignation about that or we can just admit it. Truth be told Kenny probably done less of this sort of thing than anyone that came before him.

Mattie500

I disagree with a lot on this thread especially the cronyism and corruption angle (I could be wrong but it sounds political to me). I really don't care as there are enough bodies out there to look into it. My focus is entirely on the fact that sport is being funded. A sports club gets a grant for a community based activity that is non traditional... I make NO apology for supporting that. I have many years of experience applying, being rejected, applying again, and being successful for community grants. The bureaucracy is the control and it is the system we have. It does frustrate but nit-picking isn't going to get the funding for the next community project.. My interests are in the great advantages of sport from a health perspective!! Others are interested in historical monuments or artistic installations. I choose to give my time to enhance the facilities and encourage participation but as sure as night follows day you will get people complaining.

spyderski

D3PO wrote: »

where have they officially been asked about this outside of this thread ive seen no mention of this in media or anywhere else ?
.

Here you go: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-had-no-hand-in-securing-20-000-for-his-local-cycling-club-1.2886688

MayoAreMagic

Beasty wrote: »

Innocent until proven guilty yes. But no attempt whatsoever to defend and indeed explain the position is what is frustrating everyone. Do you have any idea why they choose to bury their heads on this one?

I don't, but I have outlined a couple of reasonable possibilities, none of which seemed to feature on the thread up to now...

D3PO

spyderski wrote: »

Here you go: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-had-no-hand-in-securing-20-000-for-his-local-cycling-club-1.2886688

nowhere in that article are they asked if the money has been spent on the specific spin bikes that is the question i trying to ask. appologise if i wasnt clear.

my point is if they havent been asked about the spin bike purchase then how can beasty lay down the charge that they should have made a public statement re the same.

ted1

spyderski wrote: »

D3PO wrote: »

by definition all sports clubs are non profit so whilst its stretching things a bit its not actually a misrepresentation to say they are a non profit club / organisation.

Agreed. But no-one has an issue with the non-profit part. It's more the word CHARITY.

For what it's worth, I don't believe they're consciously representing themselves as an actual charity, but the loose use of language is perhaps indicative of a willingness to stretch the truth somewhat.

Bear in mind the 3 rd party website is targeting people living in America, the wording may not be signed off on , and the word may have a different meaning over there.

BarryD2

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

In fairness, why would they not charge for the spinning classes though? Do many places you know off offer such services for free? I don't know of any to be honest about it.

Dunno, but for the price of a few 'spinning classes' you could pick up a bike and get out for some real fresh air and aerobic exercise.

spyderski

ted1 wrote: »

Bear in mind the 3 rd party website is targeting people living in America, the wording may not be signed off on , and the word may have a different meaning over there.

Seriously? Perhaps there's an international money laundering campaign being run and they're using an innocent Irish cycling club as a front. Because that's as plausible an explanation as what I've seen here. "maybe the club don't know about it" "maybe the word has a different meaning" "maybe they accidentally added the word charity to non-profit". :rolleyes:

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

Seriously? Perhaps there's an international money laundering campaign being run and they're using an innocent Irish cycling club as a front. Because that's as plausible an explanation as what I've seen here. "maybe the club don't know about it" "maybe the word has a different meaning" "maybe they accidentally added the word charity to non-profit". :rolleyes:

Sorry but you really need to prove these funds have been misappropriated, or at least get something better than a few photos on facebook. Because your continuation with the above, without anything near concrete to go on, is making it appear more and more that you have an axe to grind..

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but you really need to prove these funds have been misappropriated, .

I really don't need to prove something that I have not asserted. At no point have I said the funds have been misappropriated. I am acutely aware of Irish Libel Law - if you want to check it, only a couple of posts back I said I was working on the assumption the funds have not been spent at all.

Anyway, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I'm dealing in facts and will keep an eye on developments, and hopefully will be reporting back here in a few weeks that the spin bikes have arrived, and all is well with the world.

magicbastarder

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but you really need to prove these funds have been misappropriated

where taxpayer money has been allocated, surely it's encumbent on the recipient to prove it has been spent appropriately?

brocbrocach

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well frankly, yes it is. We all know politics works that way and we are being either naïve or disingenuous if we suggest otherwise. It was the case before Kenny, it will be the case afterwards too. An odd stroke will be pulled to look after their own, nothing too extreme but all politics is local and this is how that manifests itself. It is a bit ridiculous to be giving out about Kenny, when every elected politician is doing the same thing, probably in your own constituency too. We can feign indignation about that or we can just admit it. Truth be told Kenny probably done less of this sort of thing than anyone that came before him.

Nah, I still don't like it.

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

I really don't need to prove something that I have not asserted. At no point have I said the funds have been misappropriated. I am acutely aware of Irish Libel Law - if you want to check it, only a couple of posts back I said I was working on the assumption the funds have not been spent at all.

Anyway, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I'm dealing in facts and will keep an eye on developments, and hopefully will be reporting back here in a few weeks that the spin bikes have arrived, and all is well with the world.

Well then, shall we say not used in the manner as they were intended, be it not used at all or used elsewhere. That was your assertion. You need to start offering something better, because you don't have enough, particularly for this long campaign you seem to have been on.
Also, it is worth remembering that they are perfectly within their right to not have used it yet...

May I ask, did you vote for or against Kenny in the elections?

MayoAreMagic

brocbrocach wrote: »

Nah, I still don't like it.

Neither do I. But it is the reality. Like it or lump it.

spyderski

I'm in Dublin, so didn't vote for or against Kenny. You seem awfully defensive of the whole situation - care to disclose anything yourself?

MayoAreMagic

magicbastarder wrote: »

where taxpayer money has been allocated, surely it's encumbent on the recipient to prove it has been spent appropriately?

Have every club/association/cause who received a grant down the years done likewise? If not then why should they?

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

I'm in Dublin, so didn't vote for or against Kenny. You seem awfully defensive of the whole situation - care to disclose anything yourself?

I have already disclosed that I am neither from the area nor am familiar with the group. I couldn't name a single member, honorary ones aside. I do cycle but not at any record setting pace or distances. As for getting defensive, I don't like seeing people who appear to be genuine and trying to do good - small political stroke or not - vilified for no proper reason, or consideration given to the possibility that they may have done nothing wrong, even though it appears the most likely one.

Anything you would like to disclose yourself? You do seem to be a dog with a bone on this, and there seems to be little enough to go off to the objective observer... You would wonder why someone would feel the need to get so involved, for so long, with so little to go off.
Can you expand on that?

brocbrocach

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Neither do I. But it is the reality. Like it or lump it.

Do you know what, I'll keep following what spyderski posts here. That's my grand contribution.
You can deal with it in your own way. Head in the sand works for some.

magicbastarder

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Have every club/association/cause who received a grant down the years done likewise? If not then why should they?

'if not, why should they?' seriously? because it's public money. because if it has been spent appropriately, what's to lose in presenting that evidence?
because how often in irish life have people hidden behind a 'what business is it of yours' defence?

MayoAreMagic

brocbrocach wrote: »

Do you know what, I'll keep following what spyderski posts here. That's my grand contribution.
You can deal with it in your own way. Head in the sand works for some.

As will I. My point is just that people seem to be assuming these people have done wrong, yet nobody is questioning the guy who seems to be on a crusade, with very little to go on as regards inappropriate behaviour on the club's part. Im genuinely curious as to why more people aren't asking why that is so.

Id also argue that it is yourself with your head in the sand if you disagree with what you quoted there...

Lumen

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

As will I. My point is just that people seem to be assuming these people have done wrong, yet nobody is questioning the guy who seems to be on a crusade, with very little to go on as regards inappropriate behaviour on the club's part. Im genuinely curious as to why more people aren't asking why that is so.

Id also argue that it is yourself with your head in the sand if you disagree with what you quoted there...

The crux of your argument seems to be "stop turning over rocks, no good will come of it". That's a particularly bad argument to be using in a sports cycling forum, given the history of the sport.

Some people like turning over rocks, as has been pointed out, this is public money.

Thanks for your efforts spyderski.

Beasty

If it was my club I'm sure we would have sought to limit any damage via a public statement. That could also avoid unnecessary speculation.

If they had said something along the lines:

"We note certain speculation concerning the grant of €20,000 application made in (whenever the date was). We can confirm we have received this cash and expect delivery of xx spin bikes in October/November (or whatever fits the facts). We would be happy to show anyone with particular concerns around our facility/shed/whatever once we have the equipment installed and operational."

This thread would probably then grind to a halt. As it is of course speculation will continue be it here or elsewhere.

OleRodrigo

If it were my club, I'd quietly laugh with my club mates at those perpetually disgruntled internet warriors with notions about themselves.

Assuming there was no wrongdoing, of course. Which there wouldn't have been.

velo.2010

Beasty wrote: »

If it was my club I'm sure we would have sought to limit any damage via a public statement. That could also avoid unnecessary speculation.

If they had said something along the lines:

"We note certain speculation concerning the grant of €20,000 application made in October2016. We can confirm we have received this cash and pissed it all away. Yeah, we went on the lash in Majorca. It was meant to be a training week but things change!#sorrybutnotreallysorry

Fixed that for Beasty.