Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

Weepsie

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

1. Could it be argued the spin bikes are for classes etc is more of a social/health club in an under-developed area, rather than a sports club? If it is a sports club then who are they competing against? Is a walking club a sports club? Or just a club for people who want to get healthier and socialise a bit without winning or losing involved. Id suggest it is in far more of a grey area than a nailed on sports club. It isn't like a gaa club or a soccer club for example.

They're a sports club. They have cyclists who race. Only a handful of time in the previous 5/6 years anyway had a similar (ie. sports) club been given anything from that fund and that was for a very clearly defined expense to benefit disabled members if I recall correctly.

This was a request for 20 k to buy turbo trainers for their cycling club so as their members wouldn't have to bring their own. They made their members bring their own, and then charged them for the session The person getting the money was the club's president's son who also runs a private fitness business.

no need to be jumping to conclusions when they're leaping right out at you.

This new matter is different. If they do get the money from this, it's all above board as far as I'm concerned but this grant should never have been considered.

In a week when an utterly failed and deeply compromised Garda Commish gets a 300 k pay off, and 90 k a year and we shrug our shoulders this is small, but it's another indication of just how fuppin backward Ireland is but ah yeah, we're grand on the index.. nonsense.

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is actually far more likely, seeing how some of these things work in the past, that they haven't even got it yet.

It is not just unlikely, it's categorically wrong. The FACT is that the money was paid to the club by EFT on or about the 29/11/16. You seem to forget I've FOI'd all of this.

I'm dealing in hard facts, sent to me by the Dept of Health. You seem intent on trying to dispel these hard facts with maybes. Please stop - you're wasting your time.

spyderski

ted1 wrote: »

Where havey claimed to be a charity ?

"Islandeady Cycling Club is a non profit/charity with an active membership of 120."

Link here: http://mayo.designwest.ie/islandeady-cycling-club/

magicbastarder

it's one thing claiming to be a 'non-profit' as that could just be a casual 'we're an organisation which doesn't make a profit', which you'd forgive.
it's quite another to bandy around the word 'charity' if you're not actually a registered charity.

ted1

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's one thing claiming to be a 'non-profit' as that could just be a casual 'we're an organisation which doesn't make a profit', which you'd forgive.
it's quite another to bandy around the word 'charity' if you're not actually a registered charity.

The link that the op posted are that, but it's not on their site , did the club sanction the text ? It's on a 3rd party site.

spyderski

I feel I have to keep saying this, but just to reiterate, I have no problem with the club's stated aim of promoting health and exercise, and accessibility to same for all regardless of ability. It just seems they are going about raising funding for same in a less than forthright, transparent and proper manner.

The issues around personal property and family involvement do nothing to lessen the possibility that something less than straightforward is going on here. The start of the problem stems from the indisputable fact that they did not meet the criteria for the Lottery funding. I could be completely wrong about the rest, and would be delighted to be proved so, but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

magicbastarder

heh, it's on a page seeking to raise 50k for the club so i hope the club are aware of it!

brocbrocach

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well this is my problem with this thread tbh. Anyone trying to make an argument the other way seems to be painted as having some ulterior motive. I wonder how many posts spyderski has on the topic? What does that suggest about his/her input? Not a whole lot really, but it can be used in the same way, if people want to be disingenuous about it in the other direction.

I have no doubt whatsoever that spyderski thinks that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. His input and his repeated posting is driven by that, I can see that and I can see why that is (though I don't know if he has another motive as well). I'm not really as convinced as he is but what I 100% can't see is a fair reason why people would be trying to shut down the questioning. What's the harm in checking?
Unfortunately everything about Irish political life suggests that you have to doubt coincidences and lucky breaks, a bit like pro cycling.

spyderski

In relation to those who doubt my motives. I have never got involved in looking into anything like this before, and have no knowledge or involvement with any of the parties concerned. As I said previously, I was initially interested as I'm involved in cycling and interested in politics. As I looked further into the issue, more and more of the story smelled fishy, so I decided to run with it and see if I got anywhere. I know enough about the way things work in Ireland that I'm not that shocked at any of it, but now I've spent this much time on it, I may as well see it through. If I don't see evidence that they've bought the spin bikes, I'll be following it up. Probably a complete waste of my time, but sure I've got this far I may as well stick around to see what happens ;-)

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

It is not just unlikely, it's categorically wrong. The FACT is that the money was paid to the club by EFT on or about the 29/11/16. You seem to forget I've FOI'd all of this.

I'm dealing in hard facts, sent to me by the Dept of Health. You seem intent on trying to dispel these hard facts with maybes. Please stop - you're wasting your time.

Fair enough, I accept that they received the money on the back of that.

However, can you provide the dates on which the money was spent, and also some proof? Since you are claiming that this is a fact also...

This is my gripe, you don't actually have anything to this effect - and that is a fact too. So it is a bit unfair to be claiming you do, particularly over and over again - it is misleading. If you did in fact stick to the facts, as you claim, I wouldn't have an issue. Don't you see that it is kinda disingenuous to be doing that?

Im actually also curious as to how the money was used, if at all yet, but if it was used properly - and frankly even if it wasn't spin bikes but something similar and to the same ends, Id have no issue with that - some might but I wouldn't.

Weepsie

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Im actually also curious as to how the money was used, if at all yet, but if it was used properly - and frankly even if it wasn't spin bikes but something similar and to the same ends, Id have no issue with that - some might but I wouldn't.

They never should have been given the money. Never, ever so it can never be used "properly". End of.

MayoAreMagic

brocbrocach wrote: »

I have no doubt whatsoever that spyderski thinks that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. His input and his repeated posting is driven by that, I can see that and I can see why that is (though I don't know if he has another motive as well). I'm not really as convinced as he is but what I 100% can't see is a fair reason why people would be trying to shut down the questioning. What's the harm in checking?
Unfortunately everything about Irish political life suggests that you have to doubt coincidences and lucky breaks, a bit like pro cycling.

I have no issue with people checking, in fact Id agree with it. But he is claiming to know things that he doesn't - crucial details at that, regarding the spending of the monies involved here. Which has me wondering, why? If that were to happen in court with a witness for example, the person would be discredited. I know this isn't a court of law, but the logic remains, why pretend?

In reality they might have bought them and could be using them as we speak, they might be shopping around, the guy running the classes might be doing his own thing. I just don't get the forcefulness of the thing, when there isn't really a whole lot to go off to suggest that the club have acted inappropriately with the money.

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Fair enough, I accept that they received the money on the back of that.

However, can you provide the dates on which the money was spent, and also some proof? Since you are claiming that this is a fact also...

This is my gripe, you don't actually have anything to this effect - and that is a fact too. So it is a bit unfair to be claiming you do, particularly over and over again - it is misleading. If you did in fact stick to the facts, as you claim, I wouldn't have an issue. Don't you see that it is kinda disingenuous to be doing that?

Im actually also curious as to how the money was used, if at all yet, but if it was used properly - and frankly even if it wasn't spin bikes but something similar and to the same ends, Id have no issue with that - some might but I wouldn't.

A fair enough comment. Leaving aside the fundamental fact that they did not qualify to get the €20k grant in the first place, I'll try to answer your points:

Firstly, I can't provide dates when the money was spent as I don't believe it has been spent. At least not as intended.

My basis for this assertion is that as of last April, when their indoor classes ended, there was pictures posted on FB of club members on various turbo trainers, having been told that they had to bring their own turbos and bikes to each session.

My basis for believing they have still not bought the spin bikes is that the club seem to put up photos of every hi-vis jersey and every Ice-cream eaten by a member; I can't believe they wouldn't put up a photo of 25 shiny new spin bikes arriving at the clubhouse. I could be wrong and they could be sitting in a shed somewhere waiting for the evenings to draw in.

My doubt is further compounded by the fact that they are now seeking additional funding to buy 10 high-end smart trainers, TV's etc.

As I said yesterday, until I see otherwise, it looks like all income and no visible expenditure.

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But he is claiming to know things that he doesn't - crucial details at that, regarding the spending of the monies involved here.

Please show me where I have claimed to know what the money has been spent on. I have made no assertions whatsoever as to this. You're now just making stuff up. I have to operate on the belief the money has not been spent at all. Because if it's been spent on anything other than spin bikes, that's going to be a whole other issue, one involving the Gardai.

D3PO

spyderski wrote: »

"Islandeady Cycling Club is a non profit/charity with an active membership of 120."

Link here: http://mayo.designwest.ie/islandeady-cycling-club/

by definition all sports clubs are non profit so whilst its stretching things a bit its not actually a misrepresentation to say they are a non profit club / organisation.

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

A fair enough comment. Leaving aside the fundamental fact that they did not qualify to get the €20k grant in the first place, I'll try to answer your points:

Firstly, I can't provide dates when the money was spent as I don't believe it has been spent. At least not as intended.

My basis for this assertion is that as of last April, when their indoor classes ended, there was pictures posted on FB of club members on various turbo trainers, having been told that they had to bring their own turbos and bikes to each session.

My basis for believing they have still not bought the spin bikes is that the club seem to put up photos of every hi-vis jersey and every Ice-cream eaten by a member; I can't believe they wouldn't put up a photo of 25 shiny new spin bikes arriving at the clubhouse. I could be wrong and they could be sitting in a shed somewhere waiting for the evenings to draw in.

My doubt is further compounded by the fact that they are now seeking additional funding to buy 10 high-end smart trainers, TV's etc.

As I said yesterday, until I see otherwise, it looks like all income and no visible expenditure.

Well my take is that a rural club of this type should in fact qualify, if everything is above board of course. Efforts need to be made to stop the drag of people to the capital and this fits into that remit - or so I would think anyway. People mightn't agree and fair enough.

Anyway, but again, there is a fair bit of assumption going on there. Is that person putting up the photos the only show in town? Or is it possible that there is more going on? I've been involved in sports clubs myself and from experience I know that these things move slowly, and there can be a lot of moving parts. I also know that if you go by what appears on facebook only, you don't know a whole lot of the goings on in a club.

Another possibility is maybe they have been advised to keep the head down after all the media interest, and keep the bikes out of the media spotlight? And while it is working yourself into a frenzy, it is in fact keeping the papers off their backs at the same time. Maybe a few emails and a thread on boards from a disgruntled few, is preferable to being stuck in the paper.

I agree that your assertions are a possibility. But they clearly are not the only one, that is what Im trying to say

D3PO

if Im not mistaken they have till the end of this calendar year to spend he funds right ? I dont disagree with you following up to ensure it was spent on what the grant was provided for especially given the dubious nature as to weather they should have received it or not but you are taking some pretty big leaps to be fair.

i mean a post from feb telling people to bring their bikes, perhaps the spin bikes hadnt been delivered yet ? perhaps they hadnt been ordered at that point ?

I mean the least you could do if you want to be thorough here is attend one of the spin classes and see first hand what the situation is. Might be a good idea rather than making assumptions right ?

ford2600

Weepsie wrote: »

In a week when an utterly failed and deeply compromised Garda Commish gets a 300 k pay off, and 90 k a year and we shrug our shoulders this is small, but it's another indication of just how fuppin backward Ireland is but ah yeah, we're grand on the index.. nonsense.

All countries waste public money; it is human nature. We make a mess of a lot of things, but so does everyone else; some a little better most way worse.

UK, Germany, Denmark and Sweden etc probably better the rest of Europe worse or about the same.

Most of my dealing with planners, departments etc they are sticklers for the rules not the Banana Republic we like to sometimes paint ourselves.

How else could we have gotten rid of our commissioner? She is entitled to the same employment protections as the rest of us in this republic, even if it is public service?

As they say in Kerry "it is easy be generous with the neighbour's donkey"

spyderski

D3PO wrote: »

by definition all sports clubs are non profit so whilst its stretching things a bit its not actually a misrepresentation to say they are a non profit club / organisation.

Agreed. But no-one has an issue with the non-profit part. It's more the word CHARITY.

For what it's worth, I don't believe they're consciously representing themselves as an actual charity, but the loose use of language is perhaps indicative of a willingness to stretch the truth somewhat.

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

Please show me where I have claimed to know what the money has been spent on. I have made no assertions whatsoever as to this. You're now just making stuff up. I have to operate on the belief the money has not been spent at all. Because if it's been spent on anything other than spin bikes, that's going to be a whole other issue, one involving the Gardai.

Apologies, you in fact said,

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

But you don't know if they have or not.

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Apologies, you in fact said,

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

But you don't know if they have or not.

Very true. But you have no evidence that they have and its pretty difficult to prove something in the negative. However the balance of probability leads me to believe that if 25 spin bikes had been delivered to a small club house there'd be some mention of it somewhere. And If they haven't, its a legitimate question to ask why not, as the time of year for their use is upon us, and the club have been in funds since December last.

I don't expect anyone from the club to come on here and let us know they have bought them or that they are on their way, as the club are not answerable to me. It would make it a lot easier though....

flutered

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Apologies, you in fact said,

2. This club has not spent the money according to their application. Almost a year later.

But you don't know if they have or not.

which is the crux of the issue

brocbrocach

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well my take is that a rural club of this type should in fact qualify, if everything is above board of course. Efforts need to be made to stop the drag of people to the capital and this fits into that remit - or so I would think anyway. People mightn't agree and fair enough.

But it does not qualify. Nobody else the length and breadth of the land got it for the same reason. So the only place where the drag to the capital will be reversed is the former Taoiseach's backyard? Nice to be them.
Now, what happened to the money secured by the Taoiseach once it got into the hands of the Taoiseach's friend and his son, that's another question again. I'd agree with you that it's up to whoever is suggesting impropriety to gather the facts.

MayoAreMagic

I don't, but then I don't have any proof for any of the others awarded monies have done so either... Do you?

This is my point, there isn't enough info here to be painting them in such a light. If there was, fair enough. But in reality, there isn't, so why is it happening? Is it just a hangover from a general dislike of Enda Kenny? It would be bad form if it was in fairness..

Personally, I don't like the idea that what could be perfectly honest people, trying to do some good in their area, are being portrayed in such a light, with no concrete proof, or even decent probably cause. Until people have proper reason to do so, surely they should show a bit of restraint on that front? Innocent 'til proven guilty and all that?

Beasty

Innocent until proven guilty yes. But no attempt whatsoever to defend and indeed explain the position is what is frustrating everyone. Do you have any idea why they choose to bury their heads on this one?

D3PO

Beasty wrote: »

Innocent until proven guilty yes. But no attempt whatsoever to defend and indeed explain the position is what is frustrating everyone. Do you have any idea why they choose to bury their heads on this one?

where have they officially been asked about this outside of this thread ive seen no mention of this in media or anywhere else ?

im not trying to defend them if they are in the wrong but there seems to be a bit of a pitchfork mentality going on here at the moment. In all fairness they arent answerable to a boards thread and if this is the only place the question has been asked and no formal ask has been made then i think the statement that they have made no attempt to explain is unfair.

MayoAreMagic

brocbrocach wrote: »

But it does not qualify. Nobody else the length and breadth of the land got it for the same reason. So the only place where the drag to the capital will be reversed is the former Taoiseach's backyard? Nice to be them.
Now, what happened to the money secured by the Taoiseach once it got into the hands of the Taoiseach's friend and his son, that's another question again. I'd agree with you that it's up to whoever is suggesting impropriety to gather the facts.

Well frankly, yes it is. We all know politics works that way and we are being either naïve or disingenuous if we suggest otherwise. It was the case before Kenny, it will be the case afterwards too. An odd stroke will be pulled to look after their own, nothing too extreme but all politics is local and this is how that manifests itself. It is a bit ridiculous to be giving out about Kenny, when every elected politician is doing the same thing, probably in your own constituency too. We can feign indignation about that or we can just admit it. Truth be told Kenny probably done less of this sort of thing than anyone that came before him.

Mattie500

I disagree with a lot on this thread especially the cronyism and corruption angle (I could be wrong but it sounds political to me). I really don't care as there are enough bodies out there to look into it. My focus is entirely on the fact that sport is being funded. A sports club gets a grant for a community based activity that is non traditional... I make NO apology for supporting that. I have many years of experience applying, being rejected, applying again, and being successful for community grants. The bureaucracy is the control and it is the system we have. It does frustrate but nit-picking isn't going to get the funding for the next community project.. My interests are in the great advantages of sport from a health perspective!! Others are interested in historical monuments or artistic installations. I choose to give my time to enhance the facilities and encourage participation but as sure as night follows day you will get people complaining.

spyderski

D3PO wrote: »

where have they officially been asked about this outside of this thread ive seen no mention of this in media or anywhere else ?
.

Here you go: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-had-no-hand-in-securing-20-000-for-his-local-cycling-club-1.2886688

MayoAreMagic

Beasty wrote: »

Innocent until proven guilty yes. But no attempt whatsoever to defend and indeed explain the position is what is frustrating everyone. Do you have any idea why they choose to bury their heads on this one?

I don't, but I have outlined a couple of reasonable possibilities, none of which seemed to feature on the thread up to now...