Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

D3PO

spyderski wrote: »

Here you go: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-had-no-hand-in-securing-20-000-for-his-local-cycling-club-1.2886688

nowhere in that article are they asked if the money has been spent on the specific spin bikes that is the question i trying to ask. appologise if i wasnt clear.

my point is if they havent been asked about the spin bike purchase then how can beasty lay down the charge that they should have made a public statement re the same.

ted1

spyderski wrote: »

D3PO wrote: »

by definition all sports clubs are non profit so whilst its stretching things a bit its not actually a misrepresentation to say they are a non profit club / organisation.

Agreed. But no-one has an issue with the non-profit part. It's more the word CHARITY.

For what it's worth, I don't believe they're consciously representing themselves as an actual charity, but the loose use of language is perhaps indicative of a willingness to stretch the truth somewhat.

Bear in mind the 3 rd party website is targeting people living in America, the wording may not be signed off on , and the word may have a different meaning over there.

BarryD2

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

In fairness, why would they not charge for the spinning classes though? Do many places you know off offer such services for free? I don't know of any to be honest about it.

Dunno, but for the price of a few 'spinning classes' you could pick up a bike and get out for some real fresh air and aerobic exercise.

spyderski

ted1 wrote: »

Bear in mind the 3 rd party website is targeting people living in America, the wording may not be signed off on , and the word may have a different meaning over there.

Seriously? Perhaps there's an international money laundering campaign being run and they're using an innocent Irish cycling club as a front. Because that's as plausible an explanation as what I've seen here. "maybe the club don't know about it" "maybe the word has a different meaning" "maybe they accidentally added the word charity to non-profit". :rolleyes:

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

Seriously? Perhaps there's an international money laundering campaign being run and they're using an innocent Irish cycling club as a front. Because that's as plausible an explanation as what I've seen here. "maybe the club don't know about it" "maybe the word has a different meaning" "maybe they accidentally added the word charity to non-profit". :rolleyes:

Sorry but you really need to prove these funds have been misappropriated, or at least get something better than a few photos on facebook. Because your continuation with the above, without anything near concrete to go on, is making it appear more and more that you have an axe to grind..

spyderski

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but you really need to prove these funds have been misappropriated, .

I really don't need to prove something that I have not asserted. At no point have I said the funds have been misappropriated. I am acutely aware of Irish Libel Law - if you want to check it, only a couple of posts back I said I was working on the assumption the funds have not been spent at all.

Anyway, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I'm dealing in facts and will keep an eye on developments, and hopefully will be reporting back here in a few weeks that the spin bikes have arrived, and all is well with the world.

magicbastarder

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but you really need to prove these funds have been misappropriated

where taxpayer money has been allocated, surely it's encumbent on the recipient to prove it has been spent appropriately?

brocbrocach

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well frankly, yes it is. We all know politics works that way and we are being either naïve or disingenuous if we suggest otherwise. It was the case before Kenny, it will be the case afterwards too. An odd stroke will be pulled to look after their own, nothing too extreme but all politics is local and this is how that manifests itself. It is a bit ridiculous to be giving out about Kenny, when every elected politician is doing the same thing, probably in your own constituency too. We can feign indignation about that or we can just admit it. Truth be told Kenny probably done less of this sort of thing than anyone that came before him.

Nah, I still don't like it.

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

I really don't need to prove something that I have not asserted. At no point have I said the funds have been misappropriated. I am acutely aware of Irish Libel Law - if you want to check it, only a couple of posts back I said I was working on the assumption the funds have not been spent at all.

Anyway, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I'm dealing in facts and will keep an eye on developments, and hopefully will be reporting back here in a few weeks that the spin bikes have arrived, and all is well with the world.

Well then, shall we say not used in the manner as they were intended, be it not used at all or used elsewhere. That was your assertion. You need to start offering something better, because you don't have enough, particularly for this long campaign you seem to have been on.
Also, it is worth remembering that they are perfectly within their right to not have used it yet...

May I ask, did you vote for or against Kenny in the elections?

MayoAreMagic

brocbrocach wrote: »

Nah, I still don't like it.

Neither do I. But it is the reality. Like it or lump it.

spyderski

I'm in Dublin, so didn't vote for or against Kenny. You seem awfully defensive of the whole situation - care to disclose anything yourself?

MayoAreMagic

magicbastarder wrote: »

where taxpayer money has been allocated, surely it's encumbent on the recipient to prove it has been spent appropriately?

Have every club/association/cause who received a grant down the years done likewise? If not then why should they?

MayoAreMagic

spyderski wrote: »

I'm in Dublin, so didn't vote for or against Kenny. You seem awfully defensive of the whole situation - care to disclose anything yourself?

I have already disclosed that I am neither from the area nor am familiar with the group. I couldn't name a single member, honorary ones aside. I do cycle but not at any record setting pace or distances. As for getting defensive, I don't like seeing people who appear to be genuine and trying to do good - small political stroke or not - vilified for no proper reason, or consideration given to the possibility that they may have done nothing wrong, even though it appears the most likely one.

Anything you would like to disclose yourself? You do seem to be a dog with a bone on this, and there seems to be little enough to go off to the objective observer... You would wonder why someone would feel the need to get so involved, for so long, with so little to go off.
Can you expand on that?

brocbrocach

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Neither do I. But it is the reality. Like it or lump it.

Do you know what, I'll keep following what spyderski posts here. That's my grand contribution.
You can deal with it in your own way. Head in the sand works for some.

magicbastarder

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Have every club/association/cause who received a grant down the years done likewise? If not then why should they?

'if not, why should they?' seriously? because it's public money. because if it has been spent appropriately, what's to lose in presenting that evidence?
because how often in irish life have people hidden behind a 'what business is it of yours' defence?

MayoAreMagic

brocbrocach wrote: »

Do you know what, I'll keep following what spyderski posts here. That's my grand contribution.
You can deal with it in your own way. Head in the sand works for some.

As will I. My point is just that people seem to be assuming these people have done wrong, yet nobody is questioning the guy who seems to be on a crusade, with very little to go on as regards inappropriate behaviour on the club's part. Im genuinely curious as to why more people aren't asking why that is so.

Id also argue that it is yourself with your head in the sand if you disagree with what you quoted there...

Lumen

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

As will I. My point is just that people seem to be assuming these people have done wrong, yet nobody is questioning the guy who seems to be on a crusade, with very little to go on as regards inappropriate behaviour on the club's part. Im genuinely curious as to why more people aren't asking why that is so.

Id also argue that it is yourself with your head in the sand if you disagree with what you quoted there...

The crux of your argument seems to be "stop turning over rocks, no good will come of it". That's a particularly bad argument to be using in a sports cycling forum, given the history of the sport.

Some people like turning over rocks, as has been pointed out, this is public money.

Thanks for your efforts spyderski.

Beasty

If it was my club I'm sure we would have sought to limit any damage via a public statement. That could also avoid unnecessary speculation.

If they had said something along the lines:

"We note certain speculation concerning the grant of €20,000 application made in (whenever the date was). We can confirm we have received this cash and expect delivery of xx spin bikes in October/November (or whatever fits the facts). We would be happy to show anyone with particular concerns around our facility/shed/whatever once we have the equipment installed and operational."

This thread would probably then grind to a halt. As it is of course speculation will continue be it here or elsewhere.

OleRodrigo

If it were my club, I'd quietly laugh with my club mates at those perpetually disgruntled internet warriors with notions about themselves.

Assuming there was no wrongdoing, of course. Which there wouldn't have been.

velo.2010

Beasty wrote: »

If it was my club I'm sure we would have sought to limit any damage via a public statement. That could also avoid unnecessary speculation.

If they had said something along the lines:

"We note certain speculation concerning the grant of €20,000 application made in October2016. We can confirm we have received this cash and pissed it all away. Yeah, we went on the lash in Majorca. It was meant to be a training week but things change!#sorrybutnotreallysorry

Fixed that for Beasty.

Lusk_Doyle

OleRodrigo wrote: »

If it were my club, I'd quietly laugh with my club mates at those perpetually disgruntled internet warriors with notions about themselves.

Assuming there was no wrongdoing, of course. Which there wouldn't have been.

That is an incredibly condescending post when someone is simply trying to ascertain how something that shouldn't have happened with public (yours, mine and everybody elses) money, did happen and how the proceeds of said payment have been utilised for the stated purpose. In the current climate with the level of misappropriation of public money, I find the opposition to a noble and justified quest, very worrying. If nobody questioned anything the how would we find out about wrong doings?

CramCycle

Having met spiderski (only coping who he was while out socialising when he brought up the topic), I can confidently say he has no links or alterior motive. He just genuinely seems like a person who is fed up with type of BS.

Undoubtedly those involved are just hoping it would go away. Nothing on their page indicates the items they applied for have been bought. I hear a few people saying its noones business, its the way things are done, what's your motive. Personally it annoys me but I simply don't have the will to put in the effort to confirm the money has at least been spent on what has been claimed it has or that there has been unethical behaviour which should be rectified.

If I was a member of the club and the committee were staying schtum, I would either be taking a picture of the equipment and posting it anonymously, or writing to the committee to ask for an update. Any other behaviour indicates (not proves) wrongdoing and also implies consent among the clubs members.

Weepsie

There is a certain irony in people who come on to moan about people apparently moaning and while doing so overlook any of the important stuff in thread, and then repeat it again,and again...

Doc07

Just want to add that I appreciate efforts like Spyderski's despite how futile it may seem. Folk get away with all sorts of crap , all the time and it might seem small fry in the grand scheme of things. However that doesn't mean we should just shrug our collective shoulders and say 'ah fair play to them, wish we thought of that stroke'
This wasn't a fund for promoting a bit of cycling down the local club, there are other funds for that. It is fact, not speculation, that the club got the 20,000€ from a fund where they were competing against applications for projects like care of the elderly and Alzheimers etc.

Mattie500

Important stuff to me = funding for sports whatever fund it comes from. Any of the other arguments are secondary. Some clubs and organisations have highly skilled people capable of diligently pursuing grants etc.... others do not and wonder why they do not succeed.

CramCycle

Mattie500 wrote: »

Important stuff to me = funding for sports whatever fund it comes from. Any of the other arguments are secondary. Some clubs and organisations have highly skilled people capable of diligently pursuing grants etc.... others do not and wonder why they do not succeed.

As someone who has done a lot of grant writing, it bothers me to see better projects overlooked because of a known name or one institution being better liked than another.

Nonetheless, I accept it because it is within the guidelines, and even the big names don't get through when they mess up the basics in reference to the aims, areas and targets of the funding body.

In this case, in almost any other funding agency, it would have been binned by admin before going higher up. It is suspicious, although not impossible, but the fact that it got the funding despite a clear fact that would rule them out, is something that an external auditor would rip them apart on.

Seth Brundle

Mattie500 wrote: »

Important stuff to me = funding for sports whatever fund it comes from. Any of the other arguments are secondary. Some clubs and organisations have highly skilled people capable of diligently pursuing grants etc.... others do not and wonder why they do not succeed.

I think the point is that it appears that despite the club receiving a grant they weren't entitled to apply for, there is no evidence that it was actually spent on sports equipment.

Weepsie

Mattie500 wrote: »

Important stuff to me = funding for sports whatever fund it comes from. Any of the other arguments are secondary. Some clubs and organisations have highly skilled people capable of diligently pursuing grants etc.... others do not and wonder why they do not succeed.

All those eligible organisations then who were turned down can just count their bad luck.

Cute hoorism and corruption is no way to do it. They didn't diligently pursue a grant, they got a wink and a nod and everything landed on the right desk on the deadline.

DanDublin1982

I was surprised to get a notification about this thread as I'd basically forgotten about it and even more suprised to see it take off so much since. But it's been interesting reading and catching up.

I hope the truth will out on this on, whatever that may be but I do think spyderskis efforts are commendable considering he'll have spent his own money on the FOI request etc and the time he's given it so far.

There are about a dozen points I could respond to but the one that's really caught me is the almost praise of Kenny for not being as bad as his predecessors when it comes to this sort of political trick. Is that seriously the best we can hope for in a Taoiseach?

Beasty

If I were a member of the club I would be asking questions. I would also be embarrassed and in the absence of an adequate explanation I would unlikely be a member for much longer

And the most ridiculous thing is they have it in their powers to put this whole issue to bed. The fact they have failed to do so raises some serious questions over the suitability of the individuals responsible for running the club.