Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

benneca1

Beasty wrote: »

If I were a member of the club I would be asking questions. I would also be embarrassed and in the absence of an adequate explanation I would unlikely be a member for much longer

And the most ridiculous thing is they have it in their powers to put this whole issue to bed. The fact they have failed to do so raises some serious questions over the suitability of the individuals responsible for running the club.

Why should they be accountable to a bunch of people on internet. The committe is only accountable to its members. The last thing id do in their place is get involved in this discussion.

mugsymugsy

benneca1 wrote: »

Why should they be accountable to a bunch of people on internet. The committe is only accountable to its members. The last thing id do in their place is get involved in this discussion.

Because they got public money! If they didn't get public money I don't give two hoots. The begging bowl to raise 50k from the Yanks I don't care about. I do care that they got a grant for 20k from Dept of health for spin bikes.

benneca1

mugsymugsy wrote: »

benneca1 wrote: »

Why should they be accountable to a bunch of people on internet. The committe is only accountable to its members. The last thing id do in their place is get involved in this discussion.

Because they got public money! If they didn't get public money I don't give two hoots. The begging bowl to raise 50k from the Yanks I don't care about. I do care that they got a grant for 20k from Dept of health for spin bikes.

So what grants are given out for all classes of things. If they got a grant for spin bikes good luck to them. No one has written anything which shows anything other than they know how to draw down grants. To be fair getting grants is a way of life in the West so I wouldnt be surprised if they got another one next year for something else.

mugsymugsy

My personal opinion is I would rather 20k was spent by Dept of health on a sick kids operations or medicine for sick kids etc than buying spin bikes. When people can afford road bikes (min 250 euro sure that's what we tell our partners what we buy them for) they don't in my opinion need to have spin bikes bought for them

plodder

benneca1 wrote: »

So what grants are given out for all classes of things. If they got a grant for spin bikes good luck to them. No one has written anything which shows anything other than they know how to draw down grants. To be fair getting grants is a way of life in the West so I wouldnt be surprised if they got another one next year for something else.

1. .. so long as the money was spent on spin bikes and ..

2. so long as they didn't write anything untrue or dishonest in the application for the money.

If they were upfront about it, but someone else bent the rules, then that's hardly the club's fault. In fact, I find it hard to believe that any other club would do anything different in the circumstances.

Weepsie

benneca1 wrote: »

So what grants are given out for all classes of things. If they got a grant for spin bikes good luck to them. No one has written anything which shows anything other than they know how to draw down grants. To be fair getting grants is a way of life in the West so I wouldnt be surprised if they got another one next year for something else.

They shouldn't have been applying to the fund as they were not eligible whatsoever. Are people here being deliberately ignorant or something?

Had they applied to the sports fund then great. Everything about this stinks of they missed a deadline (which is 2-3 months earlier), or got turned down, or perhaps were not eligible due to getting funding a previous year so went about it the old parish pump way and get favoured in a way that should never have happened.

plodder wrote: »

2. so long as they didn't write anything untrue or dishonest in the application for the money.
.

And this is a moot point because of their ineligibility.

magicbastarder

Does the concept of fairness not seem important to some people? The idea that 'any club would have done this in their place' (which seems to assume strings were pulled, which is certainly not proven) is odious, because no other club found themselves in their place.

Weepsie

magicbastarder wrote: »

Does the concept of fairness not seem important to some people? The idea that 'any club would have done this in their place' (which seems to assume strings were pulled, which is certainly not proven) is odious, because no other club found themselves in their place.

I had a manager many a year ago when I was involved in team sports that I wasn't the biggest fan of. One day we lost a match fairly. He complained to their manager he knew their goalkeeper was from their A team and he'd have them kicked out of the league. He neglected to mention we also had a player from one of our better teams.

Last match I played as I couldn't stand the tosser but that was it for me and I wasn't exactly known for my being a good loser.

OleRodrigo

benneca1 wrote: »

Why should they be accountable to a bunch of people on internet. The committe is only accountable to its members. The last thing id do in their place is get involved in this discussion.

100 %.

They won't be asking us over for coffee and cake anytime soon, thats for sure.

plodder

Weepsie wrote: »

And this is a moot point because of their ineligibility.

How do you know they were ineligible? The article pointed to by the OP says that grants to sports clubs are generally awarded through a different fund. There is absolutely nothing wrong with applying honestly for something, if you are not sure whether you are or aren't eligible for it. If they weren't eligible, it was up to the civil servants administering it to reject the application.

plodder

magicbastarder wrote: »

Does the concept of fairness not seem important to some people? The idea that 'any club would have done this in their place' (which seems to assume strings were pulled, which is certainly not proven) is odious, because no other club found themselves in their place.

I have spent a fair amount of time filling out grant applications for a voluntary org. On one occasion, I spent an evening with an online one, only to be informed by letter (by someone whose job it is to do this) they haven't had the funds to award one of those grants for several years. They preferred to let people do that, creating work for themselves, rather than let you know beforehand there was no money available. So, maybe you should spend some time at it, before you decide what is fair, and what is odious.

RayCun

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well my take is that a rural club of this type should in fact qualify, if everything is above board of course. Efforts need to be made to stop the drag of people to the capital and this fits into that remit - or so I would think anyway. People mightn't agree and fair enough.

They applied for a Department of Health grant.

If you think they were eligible for a grant from the department of rural depopulation, they should have applied for that instead.

RayCun

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I have already disclosed that I am neither from the area nor am familiar with the group.

This is only a wild guess, but I think you might perhaps have some connection to Mayo.

mugsymugsy

RayCun wrote: »

This is only a wild guess, but I think you might perhaps have some connection to Mayo.

Do you have actual fact

spyderski

plodder wrote: »

How do you know they were ineligible? The article pointed to by the OP says that grants to sports clubs are generally awarded through a different fund. There is absolutely nothing wrong with applying honestly for something, if you are not sure whether you are or aren't eligible for it. If they weren't eligible, it was up to the civil servants administering it to reject the application.

I don't know what article by the OP you are referring to, but you are (perhaps selectively) looking in the wrong place. I have repeatedly referred to the original application, which clearly states that SPORTS ARE INELIGIBLE. The form was filled out to deliberately make constant reference to communities and the disabled, despite tenuous at best relevance to either group.

The application was then forwarded to the Civil Servant in charge FROM THE TAOISEACHS EMAIL ADDRESS. What are we supposed to conclude from that? Would you expect the civil secant to email back and tell Kenny to do one?

Weepsie

plodder wrote: »

How do you know they were ineligible? The article pointed to by the OP says that grants to sports clubs are generally awarded through a different fund. There is absolutely nothing wrong with applying honestly for something, if you are not sure whether you are or aren't eligible for it. If they weren't eligible, it was up to the civil servants administering it to reject the application.

It says it very, very clearly on the application that they and what they were requesting the fund for would make it ineligible. They needed to be looking at the DTTAS grants earlier in the year.

Sports clubs were awarded grants from this fund less than 5 times in the previous 6-7 years. All for a significantly smaller amount, and all for a clearly defined purpose of helping medically, or physically disadvantaged people. This was a money grab to get some plush machinery into their club house.

D3PO

Beasty wrote: »

If it was my club I'm sure we would have sought to limit any damage via a public statement. That could also avoid unnecessary speculation.

If they had said something along the lines:

"We note certain speculation concerning the grant of €20,000 application made in (whenever the date was). We can confirm we have received this cash and expect delivery of xx spin bikes in October/November (or whatever fits the facts). We would be happy to show anyone with particular concerns around our facility/shed/whatever once we have the equipment installed and operational."

This thread would probably then grind to a halt. As it is of course speculation will continue be it here or elsewhere.

How do you know anybody from the club is aware of this thread ?

D3PO

@spyderski rather than putting all your effort into this thread can I suggest something to you ?

How about you reach out to the reporter or editor from the Irish Times who wrote the last article on this and let him know what your suspect and on what basis and let them then make an approach to the club for comment. Im sure they would be interested in following up their initial article if there is a suspicion of wrong doing here.

Or better still why dont you call or email the PRO and or another member of the board of this club and see what their response is ?

I think getting some kind of response from the club would be the best next step dont you ?

spyderski

I am fully aware of the situation pertaining to club officers - I am one.

You keep insisting that I should drive over to the west of Ireland for a spin class - please don't be silly. Anyway , I can't imagine I'd get a Cead mile failte!

The club are not obliged to spend the money until the end of the year. I've never stated otherwise. So there is no role for the department in checking the expenditure (yet). That said, the Dept have been asked if they have been provided with evidence of expenditure, I await their reply.

The club have ignored any requests for information, from myself, the media and other parties. And, to be fair, they are not answerable to me or any other member of the public. They are, however answerable to the Dept., and may also be answerable to Cycling Ireland....

They are fully aware of this thread.

I think that addresses all your issues comprehensively. Is there anything else I can help you with?

D3PO

spyderski wrote: »

You keep insisting that I should drive over to the west of Ireland for a spin class - please don't be silly. Anyway , I can't imagine I'd get a Cead mile failte!

Is it really that silly ? I mean if your making these accusations surely its at least worth checking your information.

Just because they didnt post something on facebook saying they got new spin bikes doesnt make it so.

Besides Im sure another concerned cyclist in the west that shares your concerns could do so as a proxy for you.

D3PO

spyderski wrote: »

The club have ignored any requests for information, from myself, the media and other parties.

They are fully aware of this thread.

I think that addresses all your issues comprehensively. Is there anything else I can help you with?

Ok thats the first time I have seen you mention you have specifically contacted the club with questions on the expenditure.

To be honest as they have until the end of the calendar year I think your jumping the gun here anyway but I can see where your coming from.

Dont take me trying to provide balance with me knocking you for investigating this, I appreciate your concern and if we had more people questioning things we might be in a better shape as a country.

So I salute you for that but I do just think you need to be pulled back a little at times hence my messages.

plodder

spyderski wrote: »

I don't know what article by the OP you are referring to, but you are (perhaps selectively) looking in the wrong place.

There's only one link in the opening post of this thread. :rolleyes:

I have repeatedly referred to the original application, which clearly states that SPORTS ARE INELIGIBLE. The form was filled out to deliberately make constant reference to communities and the disabled, despite tenuous at best relevance to either group.

So, to whatever extent that the information supplied in the application form is incorrect, they are culpable. That is one of the two points I made in my first post.

The fact that they got the grant shows that the information you quote (in bold) is incorrect.

The application was then forwarded to the Civil Servant in charge FROM THE TAOISEACHS EMAIL ADDRESS. What are we supposed to conclude from that? Would you expect the civil secant to email back and tell Kenny to do one?

Politicians do this all the time. It's more about being seen to be proactive. Even if it was construed as a form of pressure, it is resisted every single day of the week in the civil service and public sector generally. If the club shouldn't have got the grant, then it's the person who awarded it, that you should be asking. I don't know how these schemes work, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's politicians who have the final say anyway. Not saying that's a fair system, but I think you directing your ire at the wrong target (so long as they didn't p!ss the money away on something different), which by the way is something, I think, worth investigating.

D3PO

FWIW I posted the following to their facebook page which is pending review

A lot of chatter about your club on boards.ie right now http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104664233#post104664233 I think it would be in the interest of your club to have your PRO make a statement of clarification.

Id imagine it never gets published and to be honest weather they are fully above board or not if it were me I wouldn't allow that be published if I were them but lets see what happens.

spyderski

To go back to my post from a couple of days ago where I revived this thread. I posted:

"As promised, I'm not letting this one go. It's now getting near turbo time - Presumably the spin bikes will be arriving in Jack's Cottage any day now. Can't wait to see what they've spent the €20k on.

Would be terrible if they don't spend the money within the 12 month time limit - someone could report them and they'd have to pay the money back. ;-)"

I have at no stage asserted the money has been misappropriated. I have at no stage accused anyone of improper conduct, other than the statement by the PRO, which I stand over.

I have exclusively referred to facts and research here, any speculation which may arise from my posts is merely a result of readers of the thread being capable of critical thought, which I can't claim any credit for!

As I've said, I hope the spin bikes arrive soon, it would be a shame if members had to lug around turbos and bikes when there's €20k sitting in the club account earmarked for spin bikes.

If they also get the money for the 10 Kickrs as well as the 25 spin bikes they'll end up the best equipped club in the Country!

spyderski

plodder wrote: »

The fact that they got the grant shows that the information you quote (in bold) is incorrect

By that logic, if someone robs a bank successfully, the fact that they have the money means it's "incorrect" to say that you cannot steal from a bank.

Sometimes I despair.

plodder

spyderski wrote: »

By that logic, if someone robs a bank successfully, the fact that they have the money means it's "incorrect" to say that you cannot steal from a bank.

That's a ridiculous comparison. There's nothing illegal about putting in an application for a grant. And it seems they weren't even the first to get one from this fund. So, the information was incorrect before they even applied.

Weepsie

plodder wrote: »

That's a ridiculous comparison. There's nothing illegal about putting in an application for a grant. And it seems they weren't even the first to get one from this fund. So, the information was incorrect before they even applied.

What part of ineligible do you not understand?

RayCun

plodder wrote: »

That's a ridiculous comparison. There's nothing illegal about putting in an application for a grant. And it seems they weren't even the first to get one from this fund. So, the information was incorrect before they even applied.

The fact that they got the grant is in contravention of the rules under which grants are supposed to be awarded. Other sports clubs have received money from the Department of Health, but only for projects which are inside the remit of the department.

People speed and aren't prosecuted - does that mean speeding is not against the law?

The fact is that this club were given money that they weren't entitled to.
The fact is that a letter was sent from the Taoiseach's office in support of their grant application.
The fact is that the Taoiseach at the time was a member of the club, which is in his constituency.

greenspurs

D3PO wrote: »

FWIW I posted the following to their facebook page which is pending review

A lot of chatter about your club on boards.ie right now http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104664233#post104664233 I think it would be in the interest of your club to have your PRO make a statement of clarification.

Id imagine it never gets published and to be honest weather they are fully above board or not if it were me I wouldn't allow that be published if I were them but lets see what happens.

The silence from the club is deafening , if not damning ....
Why not come out and explain what is going on ? Wouldnt that satisfy any questions that people have ?
If they refuse to comment, they are fueling the flames of suspicion

plodder

RayCun wrote: »

The fact that they got the grant is in contravention of the rules under which grants are supposed to be awarded. Other sports clubs have received money from the Department of Health, but only for projects which are inside the remit of the department.

The 'remit of the department. Well, they made a case, and were awarded a grant. Quibble with the details all you like. To an extent that are going to be subjective.

People speed and aren't prosecuted - does that mean speeding is not against the law?

So, if this is illegal, can you quote me the relevant offence? Shouldn't someone report them to the gardai?