Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

Chuchote

Lumen wrote: »

Was Oscar Wilde a big recipient of State funding?

I don't think that was the point, but rather that saying people shouldn't bother writing or painting unless their work was going to make them an excellent living is not necessarily sound. Van Gogh couldn't live by his painting, for instance; Jack B Yeats's beautiful, complex impressionist painting The Liffey Swim was beaten in the 1924 Olympic medal for art by Jean Lucien Nicolas's traditionalist drawing Rugby (below). Valuing art according to the money it makes from the copies sold sets Enid Blyton far above TS Eliot. But again, it's a question of personal values.

Lumen

You lost me at "Olympic medal for art".

tomasrojo

I quite like the 'Rugby' drawing. It's quite Pop Art. Wouldn't look out of place in an old copy of The Eagle. Agree it's not better than Yeats alright.

Wilde certainly aspired to high art, and was certainly an intellectual, but he also was a best-selling author and playwright., gave sell-out lecture tours, and ran a women's magazine, IIRC. Also was born into very considerable wealth.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

I quite like the 'Rugby' drawing. It's quite Pop Art. Wouldn't look out of place in an old copy of The Eagle. Agree it's not better than Yeats alright.

Wilde certainly aspired to high art, and was certainly an intellectual, but he also was a best-selling author and playwright., gave sell-out lecture tours, and ran a women's magazine, IIRC. Also was born into very considerable wealth.

Well, a best-selling playwright. The sell-out lecture tours are beside the point, as they don't count as part of his production. He was born into a well-off family all right, though his parents were bankrupted by a libel suit at one stage, as far as I remember. And his father was fond of wedding cake; he had a couple of extra families - two of Oscar's half-sisters were burned to death after the muslin dress of one caught fire as she reached up to the mantelpiece; her sister grabbed her and ran her down the steps of their house in… Wicklow? to roll in the snow to smother the flames, but her dress caught fire too, and both died horribly. Oscar, who loved his half-sisters, was devastated. He also adored his little sister Isola, who died aged 10 of what sounds like meningitis when Oscar was 12, and wrote a poem to her:

Tread lightly, she is near
Under the snow,
Speak gently, she can hear
The daisies grow.

All her bright golden hair
Tarnished with rust,
She that was young and fair
Fallen to dust.

Lily-like, white as snow,
She hardly knew
She was a woman, so
Sweetly she grew.

Coffin-board, heavy stone,
Lie on her breast,
I vex my heart alone,
She is at rest.

Peace, peace, she cannot hear
Lyre or sonnet,
All my life's buried here,
Heap earth upon it.

After Oscar's own death in a seedy Paris hotel in - what was it, 1900, I think? - his friends found a lock of her hair among his possessions, marked "My Isola's hair".

Here's his complicated family: http://www.shmoop.com/oscar-wilde/family.html

As for Yeats and the Olympics, We Wuz Robbed :eek:

Lusk_Doyle

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Framing a topic for discussion with a ' politicians are corrupt until proven otherwise' innuendo wont facilitate much interesting comment. Ireland does quite well in the annual Transparency International corruption index, something that's often ignored. Having worked in the PS myself, I noticed that what appears to be corruption is often just benign bureaucracy , wasteful and all that it is.

But if everyone comes away with a better idea on how to avail of grants, all well and good.

I would say that a social objective is being advanced, but not nearly as far as it could go. If someone put forward an analysis , based on data such as the amount of money a person might cost the health service, at certain stages of their life, per year and compare that to the annual cost of preventative action, such as monies spent on a local cycling club facilities, it would be an interesting take on the issue. With that you could argue that handing out a 20000 grant to 50 clubs nation wide could be funds well spent. Maybe even subsidize clubhouses ? In the context of the amount spent on health and social services, the expenditure would be low. Money spent improving peoples health and indirectly transforming loss making local pubs into thriving coffee and cake establishments, with knock on effects to tourism etc..

That's what the federal and local gov't do in Deutschland. A much more rounded and holistic approach.

Jawgap

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Framing a topic for discussion with a ' politicians are corrupt until proven otherwise' innuendo wont facilitate much interesting comment. Ireland does quite well in the annual Transparency International corruption index, something that's often ignored. Having worked in the PS myself, I noticed that what appears to be corruption is often just benign bureaucracy , wasteful and all that it is.

But if everyone comes away with a better idea on how to avail of grants, all well and good.

I would say that a social objective is being advanced, but not nearly as far as it could go. If someone put forward an analysis , based on data such as the amount of money a person might cost the health service, at certain stages of their life, per year and compare that to the annual cost of preventative action, such as monies spent on a local cycling club facilities, it would be an interesting take on the issue. With that you could argue that handing out a 20000 grant to 50 clubs nation wide could be funds well spent. Maybe even subsidize clubhouses ? In the context of the amount spent on health and social services, the expenditure would be low. Money spent improving peoples health and indirectly transforming loss making local pubs into thriving coffee and cake establishments, with knock on effects to tourism etc..

That's a long explanation for something that doesn't need an explanation.

In all my years in the PS I never heard the phrase "benign bureaucracy" used to described ministerial or political interference in the administration of public funds - it gave me a giggle, its right up there with "resting in my account."

And I'm not for a moment suggesting there was any corruption, so I'm not sure what the TI indices have to do with anything.

It seems to me, on the face of it, the administration of the grants was potentially skewed or decided to suit local political ends.

Do I have evidence for that? No.

But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.......;)

But good luck to them. I'm sure the money will be put to good use and hopefully it will bring sustained long term success to the club.

I just wonder who or what project got bumped - something we'll never know.

OleRodrigo

Jawgap wrote: »

In all my years in the PS I never heard the phrase "benign bureaucracy" used to described ministerial or political interference in the administration of public funds -
.

You heard it here first !

Chuchote

It's a broken society when a room full of civil servants goes hunting for a particular case file when "the Minister's office" phones.
Again, best of luck to the Mayo club - and it may be that this grant got publicity purely because it was the Taoiseach's local and he's an honorary member, and that other clubs have also got grants. But even if this is so, the fact that newspaper staff knew the story would hit a visceral nerve shows that there's something awry in our little Hamelin.

CramCycle

In certain sectors of the PS, I wouldn't call it benign. More malignant. It does not seem to be doing any real harm but it is growing and spreading and attempting to kill the host, and yet the host seems to be helping it survive and grow, and eventually it may kill the very thing keeping it alive.

Chuchote

It's also deeply harmful to the polity when people become passive about their rights.

I've heard politicians laughing about the fact that people applying for a passport or having a problem with one of the civil or social services come running to the local politician to "put in a word" for them, when the normal processes are well able to handle the problem. They don't mind, though, they get the credit for putting in the word and solving the problem.

fat bloke

Lumen wrote: »

You lost me at "Olympic medal for art".

Ah here Lumen, let it go. There are things worthy of fleeting comment and then there are things worth debating. The vast majority of artists earn two tenths of fcuk all.
Elite athletes and cyclists don't "make stuff that people want to buy". They engage in a worthwhile endeavour that cannot truly be valued in cash dollars, but nobody (caveat) begrudges them their 40k (or whatever it is) subsistence which is a maximum amount, and is as difficult to secure as it is to live on.

Such pursuits are deserving of funding and encouragement.


(in my opinion):pac:

Lumen

fat bloke wrote: »

Ah here Lumen, let it go. There are things worthy of fleeting comment and then there are things worth debating.

I'm not sure if that's a fleeting comment or a debating point. :pac:

fat bloke wrote: »

The vast majority of artists earn two tenths of fcuk all.

So why do they need tax breaks up to 50k? These tax breaks are effectively lowering the price of art and therefore a direct subsidy to the rich people who buy it.

fat bloke wrote: »

Elite athletes and cyclists don't "make stuff that people want to buy". They engage in a worthwhile endeavour that cannot truly be valued in cash dollars, but nobody (caveat) begrudges them their 40k (or whatever it is) subsistence which is a maximum amount, and is as difficult to secure as it is to live on.

Such pursuits are deserving of funding and encouragement.

I am not arguing for withdrawal of subsistence funding for elite athletes.

Back on topic, I don't really see why a cycling club ought to get State funding. I'd rather the money was spent on MTB trails, velodromes and the like. Recreational road cyclists by definition use pre-existing public infrastructure, the roads. That said I have no idea what the funding bid was for, but I'm hardly going to let total ignorance get in the way of a pointless internet argument.

magicbastarder

Lumen wrote: »

So why do they need tax breaks up to 50k? These tax breaks are effectively lowering the price of art and therefore a direct subsidy to the rich people who buy it.

only rich people buy art?
or books, for that matter?

ednwireland

Well I don't have time for a lot of the civil service the only recent experience I had was the second house charge got a bill for 2.5k despite it being paid. Sent them copies of all the bill receipts got a nice person who said that's fine everything is sorted sir . Few days later another bill. Did this twice more same again.
Went to my local td in exasperation phone call the next day everything's been found and it's sorted. No more bills.

So if that's sorting something as simple as that requires my public representatives intervention it's not suprising grants are awarded on the whim of ministers.

Although good luck to them hope they manage to do some good with it.

ninoon

The thread title ensures that this topic will rumble on as a political debate especially in the absence of the full facts ,ie The Cycling Club's submission, plans, Grant adjudicating and assessment procedures, etc etc.

magicbastarder

the fact remains that the first and only club to benefit from a grant in a manner which has never been used before happens to be a club associated with a taoiseach. given the history of graft and 'local favours' in this country, people are entitled to ask questions.

Beasty

magicbastarder wrote: »

the fact remains that the first and only club to benefit from a grant in a manner which has never been used before

Have you got anything to back up this claim?

magicbastarder

that's what i read from this (the stickybottle story linked in the OP):
"However, Islandeady Cycling Club managed to get lucky and was the only sports club to receive a grant under the health scheme this year.

It is believed to be the only cycling club to ever receive a Lottery grant under the health scheme."

Jawgap

Beasty wrote: »

Have you got anything to back up this claim?

According to stickybottle......

It emerged at the weekend that the club had been awarded the grant from a scheme run by the Department of Health.

Under that scheme Lottery funding is distributed to groups for the provision of health related services and facilities.

Islandeady CC was the only sports club to receive a grant from 120 recipient organisations this year.

Records available on the Department of Health’s website dating as far back as 2009 show no other cycling club has ever received a grant under the scheme.

And Islandeady is believed to be the first cycling club ever to secure one of the health related grants.

However, the club has said the Taoiseach had no part in applying for the grant or in the funds being approved. It added Mr Kenny was not even consulted.

EDIT: Dept of Health National Lottery Grants for 2016 - the relevant award is listed at #209

Don't Chute!

terrydel wrote: »

Are you for ****ing real?
If you actually think this kind of carry on is correct and right, then you need to have a serious word with yourself.

I'm sorry but do you have to be so aggressive all the time?

Chuchote

It's possible that no other club applied before. Now that the precedent's been set, they'll probably apply.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

It's possible that no other club applied before. Now that the precedent's been set, they'll probably apply.

If no one applied I'm guessing it's to do with the conditions of the scheme......

Who Can Apply

Applications are accepted from community groups and voluntary organisations with an involvement in the provision of health services to specific client groups (for example persons with an intellectual disability and/or physical disability, elderly, etc.), national groups providing information and support for various disabilities and illnesses and groups with a specific interest (for example to provide respite for elderly, equipment for day services, residential homes, etc.)

That condition would have to be interpreted pretty broadly to take in a cycling club, no?

Maybe MaMILs have finally been recognised as a 'client group'

Chuchote

Depends. Looky here - Copenhagen cyclists bring old people out on greenway rides:

rustynutz

I'm from Mayo, not too far from Enda Kenny's constituency and while I'm not a fan of Enda I think the OP is over reacting on this one. The biggest criticism local people have of Enda Kenny is that as Taoiseach he doesn't do enough for Castlebar and the surrounding areas, that he is afraid to favour his local area in case he is accused of the cronyism that FF is famous for.

Best of luck to the club that received the grant I say, I hope they spend it wisely.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

Depends. Looky here - Copenhagen cyclists bring old people out on greenway rides:

So they're buying bikes to take old people on the Greenway?

What kind of projects can be approved?

A. Grants are generally awarded for once-off projects, which are related to health services. These can (but not exclusively) include providing funding for minor capital projects, purchase of equipment, once off research projects.

Donal55

magicbastarder wrote: »

the fact remains that the first and only club to benefit from a grant in a manner which has never been used before happens to be a club associated with a taoiseach. given the history of graft and 'local favours' in this country, people are entitled to ask questions.

....and 'local favours' in this COUNTY,..

FYP.

Beasty

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's what i read from this (the stickybottle story linked in the OP):
"However, Islandeady Cycling Club managed to get lucky and was the only sports club to receive a grant under the health scheme this year.

It is believed to be the only cycling club to ever receive a Lottery grant under the health scheme."

So your claim of fact may equally be fiction

To be clear, as I've already posted I am certainly not in possession of the full facts here. Differing interpretations have been made in this thread resulting in different conclusions being drawn. I would personally reserve any judgment in the absence of verified "facts"

Jawgap

Beasty wrote: »

So your claim of fact may equally be fiction

To be clear, as I've already posted I am certainly not in possession of the full facts here. Differing interpretations have been made in this thread resulting in different conclusions being drawn. I would personally reserve any judgment in the absence of verified "facts"

"Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk."

Beasty

I still prefer real and verified facts over pure speculation

magicbastarder

we live in a post-truth society though, if i am to believe what i read. however, that raises an interesting internal contradiction if true.