Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

spyderski

CramCycle wrote: »

Shock f*cin horror. Cycling club with members who dared to try and use a legitimate but probably not often used by cycling clubs route to funding succeeded. Truth is there are probably very few cycling clubs who tried this route before. Hopefully it will inspire some to try it out.

Maybe an taoisigh and his staff recommended it as a route, certainly does not make them guilty of anything. I am only annoyed that I never thought of it as I know several GAA clubs who have been successful. It just never occurred to me that it would be worth pursuing. I certainly will push my club to look athrough it next year.

But your cycling club will almost certainly not meet these criteria:


"Who Can Apply:
Applications are accepted from community groups and voluntary organisations with an involvement in the provision of health services to specific client groups (for example persons with an intellectual disability and/or physical disability, elderly, etc.), national groups providing information and support for various disabilities and illnesses and groups with a specific interest (for example to provide respite for elderly, equipment for day services, residential homes, etc.)"

Unless your club is in Mayo...

Actually, can anyone tell me which of these criteria did Islandeady CC fulfil?

Jawgap

Deedsie wrote: »

Sorry, I picked that up wrong... I thought you meant Kerry representatives waste the funds provided to them. The rural v Urban thing gets my back up a bit.

Well, it's not entirely without foundation

Jawgap

Deedsie wrote: »

Volunteer community group? It could help with mental health in a very isolated part of the country. Social outlet for people away from alcohol.

Ah seriously?

That's really stretching it.

CramCycle

spyderski wrote: »

But your cycling club will almost certainly not meet these criteria:


"Who Can Apply:
Applications are accepted from community groups and voluntary organisations with an involvement in the provision of health services to specific client groups (for example persons with an intellectual disability and/or physical disability, elderly, etc.), national groups providing information and support for various disabilities and illnesses and groups with a specific interest (for example to provide respite for elderly, equipment for day services, residential homes, etc.)"

Unless your club is in Mayo...

Actually, can anyone tell me which of these criteria did Islandeady CC fulfil?

We don't know, that's why all of this is pure conjecture. maybe they have a larger number of elderly members than typical. Maybe the club organises spins in the community for those with an intellectual disability. Maybe they have set up training regimes for people in the area with a physical disability. they may have angled t in much the same way as the Man Shed projects, lower social isolation, depression, suicide in rural areas etc.

I am not saying they are doing those things though, they may have been completely undeserving. my money is on the last one if they have went the right route.

spyderski

CramCycle wrote: »

We don't know, that's why all of this is pure conjecture. maybe they have a larger number of elderly members than typical. Maybe the club organises spins in the community for those with an intellectual disability. Maybe they have set up training regimes for people in the area with a physical disability. they may have angled t in much the same way as the Man Shed projects, lower social isolation, depression, suicide in rural areas etc.

I am not saying they are doing those things though, they may have been completely undeserving. my money is on the last one if they have went the right route.

Well, we're going to find out, because I'm going to FOI their application. I'll keep you posted...

Jawgap

CramCycle wrote: »

We don't know, that's why all of this is pure conjecture. maybe they have a larger number of elderly members than typical. Maybe the club organises spins in the community for those with an intellectual disability. Maybe they have set up training regimes for people in the area with a physical disability. they may have angled t in much the same way as the Man Shed projects, lower social isolation, depression, suicide in rural areas etc.

I am not saying they are doing those things though, they may have been completely undeserving. my money is on the last one if they have went the right route.

Oh come on!! Really?

That's the post fact justification for them getting the grant?

And if they are doing all the good work you mention, there's precious little mention of it on their FB page?

Don't get me wrong, they seem like a great, vibrant club that anyone would want to be a part of, but people really are clutching at straws now if they think that they got the grant because they - among alllllllll the clubs in the country - are the only ones who've tried to bring a social care dimension to their activities and have been so successful they managed to crack a grant application from a fund that previously never awarded a cent to a sports club that did specialise in providing sports to a client group with particular needs.

Hopefully, they'll share their secret with everyone - it can only be a win-win - cycling clubs will be able to access a stream of funding previously denied them, marginalised groups will be engaged more creatively with a consequent improvement in health outcomes and more people will be cycling.

Trojan

Jawgap wrote: »

Hopefully, they'll share their secret with everyone - it can only be a win-win - cycling clubs will be able to access a stream of funding previously denied them, marginalised groups will be engaged more creatively with a consequent improvement in health outcomes and more people will be cycling.

I'm sure they're tripping over themselves to come on boards to share their advice, where they've already been tried and judged - and hung, drawn and quartered - in the court of public opinion.

I live in Mayo, and given how little An Taoiseach has done for his county in general (it's a serious bugbear for a lot of people here - whatever about not favouring his local area, he seems to have ignored it in its entirety) I'd be shocked if he had actually intervened to influence this.

CramCycle

Jawgap wrote: »

Oh come on!! Really?

That's the post fact justification for them getting the grant?

Not a post justification if they detail their plans for the future and it includes this.

And if they are doing all the good work you mention, there's precious little mention of it on their FB page?

I didn't say they done it, they might have, but they may also just have plans for it. Maybe not though.
From what i can tell they are already sponsored by the RSA, not sure why they need more :pac:

Don't get me wrong, they seem like a great, vibrant club that anyone would want to be a part of, but people really are clutching at straws now if they think that they got the grant because they - among alllllllll the clubs in the country - are the only ones who've tried to bring a social care dimension to their activities and have been so successful they managed to crack a grant application from a fund that previously never awarded a cent to a sports club that did specialise in providing sports to a client group with particular needs.

Among all the clubs that applied.

Hopefully, they'll share their secret with everyone - it can only be a win-win - cycling clubs will be able to access a stream of funding previously denied them, marginalised groups will be engaged more creatively with a consequent improvement in health outcomes and more people will be cycling.

If your club has plans to improve things in any of the areas, then I hope it goes well. It is certainly needed in rural locations IMO.

Jawgap

Trojan wrote: »

I'm sure they're tripping over themselves to come on boards to share their advice, where they've already been tried and judged - and hung, drawn and quartered - in the court of public opinion.

I live in Mayo, and given how little An Taoiseach has done for his county in general (it's a serious bugbear for a lot of people here - whatever about not favouring his local area, he seems to have ignored it in its entirety) I'd be shocked if he had actually intervened to influence this.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

.....and if everything in the grant application is above board - if the money is to further a social care aspect of the club, or if it was aimed at getting money to provide spins for those with an intellectual disability or physical disabilities or it's linked in a meaningful way to the local Men's Shed or it's being used to deliver a project to lower social isolation, depression, suicide in rural areas.....I'll readily admit to being wrong about it drawing on the wrong fund (the DoH fund) and I'll give €20 to Mens Sheds.

.....the only caveat I'll put on that is that buying turbos for the club is not tackling social isolation, or providing spins for client groups.

So really the club has nothing to lose by coming on here posting up the grant application and letting us all in on the secret......

.....worst case for them is that they get the plaudits for being innovative (and possibly a phone call from CI to take over fundraising for a velodrome ) - it's going cost me €20 but I do get rather a large slice of humble pie for that money.

.....and just to note that when asked by the Irish Times about the grant the club made no mention of anything like providing for marginalised and disadvantaged groups......

In his submission to the HSE for funding, Mr Horkan [the club's PRO] outlined the huge benefits the cycling club brings to the wider community from its base at Jack’s Cottage, a 19th century farmstead, in the townland of Derrycoorane.


“We are delivering on providing better health,” Mr Horkan said.

“Cumulatively, our 105 members lost 150 stone – 1.5 stone each – by participating in weekly club activities such as cycle rides, pilates and spinning.”

Mr Horkan said the €20,000 funding will enable the club to provide “proper exercise equipment” at its base.

“At the moment members that spin have to bring their own bikes and turboframes with them, ” he said.

Jawgap

CramCycle wrote: »

Among all the clubs that applied.

.

Quite the co-incidence then that if a rake of clubs applied, the only one that got a grant had the Taoiseach as a member and Ring as a local TD?

spyderski

Perhaps I'm being cynical, but I wonder if there's a reason why Islandeady's Facebook page, Twitter and website (such as it is) all refer to "Islandeady Cycling GROUP" rather than "club"?

Applications are accepted from community groups and voluntary organisations with an involvement in the provision of health services to specific client groups (for example persons with an intellectual disability and/or physical disability, elderly, etc.), national groups providing information and support for various disabilities and illnesses and groups with a specific interest (for example to provide respite for elderly, equipment for day services, residential homes, etc.)"

CramCycle

Jawgap wrote: »

Quite the co-incidence then that if a rake of clubs applied, the only one that got a grant had the Taoiseach as a member and Ring as a local TD?

I was under the impression that they were the only cycle club who did though. Could be wrong. This said, their PRO pretty much agrees with your summation of what is going on. Still does not mean there is political interference but it does mean that something is quite rotten in the state of Denmark. Be that lack of clear guidelines and auditing to insure said guidelines at Lotto level, be it that the minister, due to the location, he was biased consciously or otherwise, or the Taoiseach himself asked him to nudge it up the list.

Two of those are a crime of incompetence, no one should be hung for them, although better safeguards should be put in place, maybe put the minister out of the cabinet. The last one is corruption and he should get in a heap of trouble for it.

It could always be a way to encourage the elderly or those with a physical disability, where travel and carrying of equipment is not easy but I will hold my breath on that for now.

Jawgap

spyderski wrote: »

Perhaps I'm being cynical, but I wonder if there's a reason why Islandeady's Facebook page, Twitter and website (such as it is) all refer to "Islandeady Cycling GROUP" rather than "club"?

Applications are accepted from community groups and voluntary organisations with an involvement in the provision of health services to specific client groups (for example persons with an intellectual disability and/or physical disability, elderly, etc.), national groups providing information and support for various disabilities and illnesses and groups with a specific interest (for example to provide respite for elderly, equipment for day services, residential homes, etc.)"

i think they are a club - they seem to be affiliated to CI in any event.

I'd imagine the word 'group' is used in the grant application literature to prevent excluding 'groups' who might be doing good work but wouldn't be formally constituted as a club or charity?

spyderski

Jawgap wrote: »

i think they are a club - they seem to be affiliated to CI in any event.

I'd imagine the word 'group' is used in the grant application literature to prevent excluding 'groups' who might be doing good work but wouldn't be formally constituted as a club or charity?

Yes, they undoubtedly are a club. The cynic in me thinks they MAY at some stage have changed their name on social media to better fit with the criteria of the grant. Anyway, I have sent off the FOI request so all will be revealed.

Jawgap

CramCycle wrote: »

I was under the impression that they were the only cycle club who did though. Could be wrong. This said, their PRO pretty much agrees with your summation of what is going on. Still does not mean there is political interference but it does mean that something is quite rotten in the state of Denmark. Be that lack of clear guidelines and auditing to insure said guidelines at Lotto level, be it that the minister, due to the location, he was biased consciously or otherwise, or the Taoiseach himself asked him to nudge it up the list.

Two of those are a crime of incompetence, no one should be hung for them, although better safeguards should be put in place, maybe put the minister out of the cabinet. The last one is corruption and he should get in a heap of trouble for it.

It could always be a way to encourage the elderly or those with a physical disability, where travel and carrying of equipment is not easy but I will hold my breath on that for now.

Again, come on!!!

I posted up the details of the Health Scheme earlier - I mean really? they managed to construe an application to buy, by the sound of it, exercise equipment that meets the requirements of the scheme?

And even if they were able to fudge matters and get a grant app through the scheme without any political 'assistance' - why wasn't this route open to other sports clubs.

There's no data up for 2016 but here is the list of all sports clubs who applied for grants in 2015 - it runs to 28 pages and there are about 50 clubs per page which is about 1400.

Let's assume 2015 was a typical year - it looks like about half of all applicants were successful to some degree or other in extracting money from DTTAS.

Let's also make the benign assumption that some sports clubs know they can access the DoH fund. I'm going to assume that 10% of all clubs in the 'market' for grants know about the 'alternative supplier.'

That means of the notional 140 clubs who may also have applied to Health, only 1 was successful.......I mean, feck it, who needs grants? They should be buying lottery tickets with luck like that

Jawgap

spyderski wrote: »

Yes, they undoubtedly are a club. The cynic in me thinks they MAY at some stage have changed their name on social media to better fit with the criteria of the grant. Anyway, I have sent off the FOI request so all will be revealed.

i think looking at it, they started as a group and, quite rightly, used money from the Sports Partnership fund (that's precisely what it's there for) to get going etc. They probably have since evolved to become a properly constituted club.

spyderski

Jawgap wrote: »

i think looking at it, they started as a group and, quite rightly, used money from the Sports Partnership fund (that's precisely what it's there for) to get going etc. They probably have since evolved to become a properly constituted club.

Possibly.

For the record, I have no problem whatsoever with them getting Sports funding, the more the merrier, if they got €50k fair play to them.
My issue with this, and the reason I am not letting it lie, is that they clearly do not meet the criteria, either in sprit or letter. They are taking away funding from other far more deserving causes to fund TURBO TRAINERS ffs!

...and the only logical explanation for this is that they benefited in some way from political connections. And before anyone replies "there's no evidence of any political influence" of course there isn't. Thats how these things work. If there was/is any evidence it would be career ending for those involved.

ednwireland

spyderski wrote: »

Thats how these things work. If there was/is any evidence it would be career ending for those involved.

Not in ireland it won't.

CramCycle

Jawgap wrote: »

I posted up the details of the Health Scheme earlier - I mean really? they managed to construe an application to buy, by the sound of it, exercise equipment that meets the requirements of the scheme?

To be fair with its broad description, yes, quite easily. Would I get it through if I done it, not so sure.

And even if they were able to fudge matters and get a grant app through the scheme without any political 'assistance' - why wasn't this route open to other sports clubs.

It was

There's no data up for 2016 but here is the list of all sports clubs who applied for grants in 2015 - it runs to 28 pages and there are about 50 clubs per page which is about 1400.

Let's assume 2015 was a typical year - it looks like about half of all applicants were successful to some degree or other in extracting money from DTTAS.

Let's also make the benign assumption that some sports clubs know they can access the DoH fund. I'm going to assume that 10% of all clubs in the 'market' for grants know about the 'alternative supplier.'

That means of the notional 140 clubs who may also have applied to Health, only 1 was successful.......I mean, feck it, who needs grants? They should be buying lottery tickets with luck like that

I had never heard of it and by the sounds of it, alot didn't. Looking at DTTAS grant applications is just smudging the issue. How many sports clubs went for the Health route? And how many of them were successful?

spyderski wrote: »

Possibly.

For the record, I have no problem whatsoever with them getting Sports funding, the more the merrier, if they got €50k fair play to them.
My issue with this, and the reason I am not letting it lie, is that they clearly do not meet the criteria, either in sprit or letter. They are taking away funding from other far more deserving causes to fund TURBO TRAINERS ffs!

...and the only logical explanation for this is that they benefited in some way from political connections. And before anyone replies "there's no evidence of any political influence" of course there isn't. That's how these things work. If there was/is any evidence it would be career ending for those involved.

The evidence would be in the detail of the application and by looking at other applications that received funding and those that did not. You should also be able to see how the awards were weighted if there was a shortlist prepared for the minister. If any one of these issues shows a discrepancy, there is your proof.

I am not saying there is not political interference, what i am saying is that you need at least something more indicative than a feeling. Looking at DTTAS grants is not relevant. Looking at other applications to the same route of funding is. Looking at what the club did do on Facebook is pointless, looking at what they claim they will do and can this be achieved with what they have described is.

After this, are their audits on the grants to ensure that they spend the money where they are meant too.

Hell the quote from the PRO in regards trainers, vs what they claim they will spend the money on would be enough. Personally, I imagine Jawgap is right, but until he FOI from Spyder comes back, I will hold back from hanging the people we don't know are involved.

CramCycle

ednwireland wrote: »

Not in ireland it won't.

If anything, it will enhance their career.

spyderski

CramCycle wrote: »

Hell the quote from the PRO in regards trainers, vs what they claim they will spend the money on would be enough. Personally, I imagine Jawgap is right, but until he FOI from Spyder comes back, I will hold back from hanging the people we don't know are involved.

You are way too reasonable to be on Boards!

Jawgap

CramCycle wrote: »

To be fair with its broad description, yes, quite easily. Would I get it through if I done it, not so sure.

It was

I had never heard of it and by the sounds of it, alot didn't. Looking at DTTAS grant applications is just smudging the issue. How many sports clubs went for the Health route? And how many of them were successful?

........

The answer to the first question is "don't know"

The answer to the second one is "1"

There's a few club officers posting on boards isn't there?

How many of them knew the Dept of Health fund was a potential source of funding?

I'm involved with a rugby club and a couple of years ago went through a series of grant application processes (some successful, some not) - at no point did the LSP people, the DTTAS people or NGB people suggest that Dept of Health was an option.......they told us about a rake of other potential sources (and how to bid and couch our applications) and even gave advice about tapping into philanthropic funds.......but they never mentioned the DoH......I wonder why?

CramCycle

spyderski wrote: »

You are way too reasonable to be on Boards!

My blood sugars are playing nice the last few days and I haven't started drinking yet.

Tombo2001

So its not cycling equipment per se, but weight loss equipment in the shape of bicycles.....

Its a weight loss club really.

spyderski

Apparently the club have not responded to requests for follow-up interviews. Must be uncomfortable talking about it.....

Tombo2001

....

Tombo2001

spyderski wrote: »

Apparently the club have not responded to requests for follow-up interviews. Must be uncomfortable talking about it.....

Why should they.

The attention shouldn't be on the people involved in the club.

It should be on the selection process.

The difficulty for the National Lottery now is that every other cycling club in the country will apply for the same grant next year, using the same criteria and reasoing, and it will be interesting to see how they go about turning these people down.

spyderski

Tombo2001 wrote: »

So its not cycling equipment per se, but weight loss equipment in the shape of bicycles.....

Its a weight loss club really.

Yeah, so basically the logic is this: they have their own turbo trainers, but they don't want to leave them in the clubhouse, or drag them around in their cars, so therefore they need €20k to buy spin bikes..

Tombo2001

spyderski wrote: »

Yeah, so basically the logic is this: they have their own turbo trainers, but they don't want to leave them in the clubhouse, or drag them around in their cars, so therefore they need €20k to buy spin bikes..

They might also need garmins and Ipads to monitor and track their calorie burn/ weight loss.....

spyderski

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Why should they.

The attention shouldn't be on the people involved in the club.

It should be on the selection process.

The people in the club are part of the selection process. Do you think that any political pressure which MAY have been applied was without the knowledge of the applicants?