Taoiseach’s Mayo village cycling club hits jackpot with Lottery grant

Tombo2001

spyderski wrote: »

The people in the club are part of the selection process. Do you think that any political pressure which MAY have been applied was without the knowledge of the applicants?

I dont think any political pressure was applied.

I'd say its simply that there are nuances to how to shape an application; you don't have to be a politician to work that out, you could be someone who made a previous application from a different organisation.

...As you mentioned.....calling yourself a 'group' rather than a club....emphasising weightloss, mental health issues etc etc.

And I don't know if that's the case here - but I think its far more plausible than saying there was interference.

spyderski

Genuine question - Do you not think it's a remarkable coincidence that the only sports club to get a grant from this scheme, which gets a sum which is considerably higher than the norm for cycling clubs, counts the Taoiseach as a member and is from his home village?

Tombo2001

spyderski wrote: »

Genuine question - Do you not think it's a remarkable coincidence that the only sports club to get a grant from this scheme, which gets a sum which is considerably higher than the norm for cycling clubs, counts the Taoiseach as a member and is from his home village?

Its a coincidence, I don't think its any more than that.

spyderski

I admire your faith in the integrity of the Irish political system, unfortunately I don't share it.

morana

Beasty wrote: »

They are on the CI Club Locator page

they are now they werent when i asked the Question.

sure look isnt it great that theres a bit of hope for a club to get money to improve cycling in their area. I remember we applied for money for track bikes for kids from the VEC having been encouraged by the VEC to apply but we got nada!!!!!!!

spyderski

I noticed that too on the CI locator. I wonder what the highest amount ever given to an individual cycling club from any grant scheme was? How would one go about finding out?

terrydel

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I dont think any political pressure was applied.

I'd say its simply that there are nuances to how to shape an application; you don't have to be a politician to work that out, you could be someone who made a previous application from a different organisation.

...As you mentioned.....calling yourself a 'group' rather than a club....emphasising weightloss, mental health issues etc etc.

And I don't know if that's the case here - but I think its far more plausible than saying there was interference.

Would a 'nuance' be asking or knowing the right person?
Utter ****e, the criteria should be completely transparent and open to scrutiny, black and white.
Until thats shown to be the case here, I will remain cynical based on 38 years seeing how things work in this country. Anyone else is perfectly entitled to remian naive all they like.

Jawgap

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Its a coincidence, I don't think its any more than that.

I'm sure you're right that a club in the Taoiseach's constituency just happened to be successful when they applied to the Dept of Health Lottery fund......

.......except......

The Dept of Health Lottery fund as a potential source of grants

.....isn't listed on the Mayo Sports Partnership website on the 'Grants Information' page

.......isn't mentioned in the Cycling Ireland Club Development Manual (I'm sure that's an oversight on their part)

......and if you dial in the club's circumstances into the www.j4bgrants.ie/default.aspx portal it doesn't suggest the Dept of Health as a source of grants......

......but as you say, its probably no more than a coincidence

Jawgap

spyderski wrote: »

I noticed that too on the CI locator. I wonder what the highest amount ever given to an individual cycling club from any grant scheme was? How would one go about finding out?

Just looking at the 2013 DTTAS figures the following clubs got the amounts listed

Finuge Freewheelers Cycling Club €5000 (they also got €6000 in 2014 - RoK?)

Laois Cycling & Touring Club €10000

Cunga Cycling & Triathlon Club €5000

Grand Canal Wheelers Cycling Club €6000

11 Triathlon clubs also got money, with Fingal getting nearly €19000

Ossory Cycling Club got €12000 in 2014 and Lakeside Wheelers Cycling Club got €20000 in the same year.

I'm not sure how those clubs compare infrastructure and membership-wise with Islandeady?

spyderski

Jawgap wrote: »

Just looking at the 2013 DTTAS figures the following clubs got the amounts listed

Finuge Freewheelers Cycling Club €5000 (they also got €6000 in 2014 - RoK?)

Laois Cycling & Touring Club €10000

Cunga Cycling & Triathlon Club €5000

Grand Canal Wheelers Cycling Club €6000

11 Triathlon clubs also got money, with Fingal getting nearly €19000

Ossory Cycling Club got €12000 in 2014 and Lakeside Wheelers Cycling Club got €20000 in the same year.

I'm not sure how those clubs compare infrastructure and membership-wise with Islandeady?

Lakeland wheelers is the biggest club in the country, or was last year.
I have never heard of Grand Canal Wheelers, and have no idea why they'd need €6k. EDIT - They are not currently CI affiliated. Where did the money go I wonder?
I cannot believe Fingal Tri Club got €19k.

So basically Islandeady CC got the joint-largest ever grant to a cycling club, and the other club is 5-6 times bigger. And this massive grant was not from a sports fund, but a Dept of Health fund...

I'm calling it. It was a good old-fashioned political stroke.

Lusk_Doyle

Did Lakeside wheelers get it in preparation for hosting the nationals?

CramCycle

spyderski wrote: »

I'm calling it. It was a good old-fashioned political stroke.

How long do you think the FOI will take. Interesting to see one of two things. One if the PRO statement is going to land them in sh1t and two if there is a proper auditing system in place. Having recieved investment from multiple sources in the past, auditing is a pain but it keeps everything above board. I could see the funding trail causing far bigger issues if there is a lack of proper auditing.

Jawgap

CramCycle wrote: »

How long do you think the FOI will take. Interesting to see one of two things. One if the PRO statement is going to land them in sh1t and two if there is a proper auditing system in place. Having recieved investment from multiple sources in the past, auditing is a pain but it keeps everything above board. I could see the funding trail causing far bigger issues if there is a lack of proper auditing.

28 days from when it's lodged, with another 21 days if it's bounced and there's an appeal.

Afaik not every grant will be audited, they may or may not be selected for independent audit at some point in the future, and may only have to provide a statement from their own auditors that the money was spent on the the things it was supposed to be spent on.

CramCycle

Jawgap wrote: »

28 days from when it's lodged, with another 21 days if it's bounced and there's an appeal.

Afaik not every grant will be audited, they may or may not be selected for independent audit at some point in the future, and may only have to provide a statement from their own auditors that the money was spent on the the things it was supposed to be spent on.

After chatting to SpiderSki the other day, it's fair to say they are going to be audited whether they like it or not.
It is a pity that every political wrong in this country hasn't someone so passionate dIving into it.

spyderski

TBH things like this have always bothered me, but I've never done anything about them before. This is different because 1. It's so bloody blatant and 2. It's cycling related.

I agree it will be interesting to see is there's a difference between the application and the PRO's comments.

Only thing is, it sticks out so badly, that one would presume the politicians will have covered their tracks, knowing there might be controversy given the clubs' location..

Jawgap

spyderski wrote: »

TBH things like this have always bothered me, but I've never done anything about them before. This is different because 1. It's so bloody blatant and 2. It's cycling related.

I agree it will be interesting to see is there's a difference between the application and the PRO's comments.

Only thing is, it sticks out so badly, that one would presume the politicians will have covered their tracks, knowing there might be controversy given the clubs' location..

From my own experience you can guarantee there is no 'smoking gun' - the Minister's Office calls, it never emails

BTW, I don't know how much experience you have with FoI, but if they bleat about fees PM and I might be able to help - if nothing else I'd be happy to chuck in a few quid to get to the bottom of it.

spyderski

In an amazing feat of efficiency, I received a letter this morning from the Department confirming my FOI request.
They do mention that they may apply a charge, but my understanding is that that only applies when the FOI involves a large amount of documents. This one should not run to too many pages....

Jawgap

spyderski wrote: »

In an amazing feat of efficiency, I received a letter this morning from the Department confirming my FOI request.
They do mention that they may apply a charge, but my understanding is that that only applies when the FOI involves a large amount of documents. This one should not run to too many pages....

No, it was changed recently - they're now obliged to charge for the time taken if it exceeds an hour and Health have been pretty zealous about it!

Mind you, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to extract the file, copy it, review it for personal info and send it on.

Esroh

To those of you who have been looking into this.
Have any Community Centres/Sports Centres been given grants under the Health Funding for equipment .

Tombo2001

Jawgap wrote: »

No, it was changed recently - they're now obliged to charge for the time taken if it exceeds an hour and Health have been pretty zealous about it!

Mind you, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to extract the file, copy it, review it for personal info and send it on.

I imagine the charge is there to stop every tom dick and harry phoning up with flippant requests, not because of the time or cost.

Jawgap

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I imagine the charge is there to stop every tom dick and harry phoning up with flippant requests, not because of the time or cost.

Who decides what's flippant?

There are provisions to deal with requests deemed frivolous or vexatious requests.

FoI is a pretty important piece of legislation for the citizen and civil servants or public servants don't get to pass judgement on the motives of the requester.....

.....of course a cynic might suggest that the fees were changed and upped, and the system made more complicated, because politicians were fed up with politically embarrassing material of significant public interest being released to citizens......

Lumen

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I imagine the charge is there to stop every tom dick and harry phoning up with flippant requests, not because of the time or cost.

No, there's a specific provision for rejecting such requests.

Refusal on administrative grounds to grant FOI requests

15. (1) A head to whom an FOI request is made may refuse to grant the request where—
...
(g) the request is, in the opinion of the head, frivolous or vexatious or forms part of a pattern of manifestly unreasonable requests from the same requester or from different requesters who, in the opinion of the head, appear to have made the requests acting in concert

(my emphasis)

Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/30/section/15/enacted/en/html

spyderski

Esroh wrote: »

To those of you who have been looking into this.
Have any Community Centres/Sports Centres been given grants under the Health Funding for equipment .

Yes, some community centres. There's loads of reasons a community or sports centre could qualify for grant aid from the Health Fund.

Esroh

spyderski wrote: »

Yes, some community centres. There's loads of reasons a community or sports centre could qualify for grant aid from the Health Fund.

Jakes Cottage as its called is used as the Islaneady Community Centre.And the only facility within the area apart from the Gaa Club. If the grant had been allocated directly to the Community Centre would people have even noticed.
If the Cycling Club is taking responsibility for the running of spinning classes under the auspicious of the Community Council then why should the application be questioned.

spyderski

Fully agree. If the community centre had applied and if the cycling club were running spinning classes on their behalf, there would be no problem.

But that's not what happened. The club received €20k and its stated purpose is to buy "proper exercise equipment" for its members.

And if there is a logical and innocent explanation for this, why will the club not reply to requests for clarification. I wish they would, 'cos it would save me a load of time and effort.

Jawgap

Esroh wrote: »

Jakes Cottage as its called is used as the Islaneady Community Centre.And the only facility within the area apart from the Gaa Club. If the grant had been allocated directly to the Community Centre would people have even noticed.
If the Cycling Club is taking responsibility for the running of spinning classes under the auspicious of the Community Council then why should the application be questioned.

......because it came out of the health fund.....if it had come from the sports fund, fair enough.

You reckon that since no sports club has accessed that fund before, we'll suddenly start seeing others being successful?

Or maybe put it another way.......if there was €20k of health funding available for Mayo, was this the best use of it?

Esroh

Jawgap wrote: »

......because it came out of the health fund.....if it had come from the sports fund, fair enough.

You reckon that since no sports club has accessed that fund before, we'll suddenly start seeing others being successful?

Or maybe put it another way.......if there was €20k of health funding available for Mayo, was this the best use of it?

Jawgap. I am sure there probably was. But that is why I asked about Community Centres/Sports Centres.
I don't think its a right if this grant was given on a nod and a wink from Enda or Michael Ring as they both would have an intrest in keeping people in Islandeady happy

Weepsie

Esroh wrote: »

Jawgap. I am sure there probably was. But that is why I asked about Community Centres/Sports Centres.
I don't think its a right if this grant was given on a nod and a wink from Enda or Michael Ring as they both would have an intrest in keeping people in Islandeady happy

Afaik, Jacks Cottage is privately owned by own Joe Moylette who is the club president. It is used for the benefit of the community and he and his wife restored it some years back

spyderski

Jacks Cottage didn't receive the grant. The cycling club did.

Weepsie

spyderski wrote: »

Jacks Cottage didn't receive the grant. The cycling club did.

I know. I was merely pointing out that it is privately owned, that alone might prevent it from being called a community centre.

I was trying to dig to see if they got any funding to restore the Cottage, couldn't find much other than stuff about heritage events it was involved with and a loose connection or two to Michael Ring. Said president was presented with a Presidential Certificate in 2014 for his involvement in "the Gathering". It was presented by one Michael Ring