Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

hatrickpatrick

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think the problem is evident. Hard liquor included. You are doing untold damage to your own health. This law will help you reduce.

The word "help" implies that this is something people want to do already. What about those who are heavy drinkers, are aware that they're heavy drinkers, are aware that they're doing untold damage to their own health, and are perfectly happy to pay that price in order to indulge something they enjoy indulging?

elperello

KungPao wrote: »

Any restrictions on say Lidl throwing in a free pizza with 6 of the finest Perlenbacher, or the local offo giving a free bag of doritos or whatever with an 8pk of Heino, to somewhat offset the increase?

Probably sharpening their pencils to tighten up the regs. as we type.
Don't give them any more ammo

Reputable Rog

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/c-c-leaves-bitter-taste-signalling-virtue-over-minimum-pricing-1.3294593?mode=amp

Spanish Eyes

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So how will this "not working" manifest itself?

Will people continue to buy alcohol in supermarkets and off licenses at the same rate they currently do ?

Because if that happens then your statement of "or pay a higher price for doing something completely legal in their own home" will not be true.

Yes I think they will quite frankly. Why go to a pub for the same if not a higher price and have to either walk, taxi, or take PT for the privilege of making a vintner richer?

OK, those who like pubs and a bit of live music will go occasionally and I am one of them, but it is a rare outing for me. I just do not like the fact that MUP is a Vintner thing, nothing else.

Much nicer to sit at home or in another friend's home and enjoy a few beers without having to look at twenty TV screens all showing horse racing or something, and then being turfed out when the publican says it's over mate, go home now.

Feck them all. I hate pubs because of their lack of customer service. Did anyone ever get a free packet of crisps or peanuts ever in these places? Nah, didn't think so.

ednwireland

funny how the higher the alcohol prices the more binge drinking mainly, i think, because people save up their drinking for on night or in my experience in scandinavia drink their home distilled spirits so just goes off the books.

Micky 32

KungPao wrote: »

Any restrictions on say Lidl throwing in a free pizza with 6 of the finest Perlenbacher, or the local offo giving a free bag of doritos or whatever with an 8pk of Heino, to somewhat offset the increase?

It probably won't be long now until Pizza's and the like will be considered damaging to your health and be taxed :rolleyes:

elperello

Micky 32 wrote: »

It probably won't be long now until Pizza's and the like will be considered damaging to your health and be taxed :rolleyes:

Ireland has a problem with pizza we need to start a national conversation.

PopePalpatine

elperello wrote: »

Ireland has a problem with pizza we need to start a national conversation.

I dunno about that, did Ireland's first ever pizzeria have morons blaring their car horns while queuing outside it? :pac:

joe40

This thread seems to have descended into puritanical eejits who want to ban all types of drinking and quite frankly, silly hyperbole about the government controlling our lives. It would be great to get back to reasonable debate.

Richard Hillman

I honestly don't think the average Joe understands what is about to happen until they stroll into their local Tesco and see what is in front of them.

Brexit will be in 6 months anyway. We'll have duty free shopping in Newry to look foward to. Might not be a bad business idea to start a click and collect drive-tru on the borderlands.

realitykeeper

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Why do you care what somebody else is lawfully doing? I bet you drive around with pro life stickers on your car as well, imposing your views on everyone.

Pro death people did the same until the won the "right" to kill. Now back to topic please Reputable Rog.

realitykeeper

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

This will not work. People do not like to be told what to do, or pay a higher price for doing something completely legal in their own home, just because Nanny said so.

The increase in price is not even going into the Exchequer coffers, so where is it going does anyone know?

But MUP might benefit the publicans, which is all we need to know really.

Personally I am always too busy minding my own business to care about other people making profits. That said, as a capitalist I believe good things like water and health care should be run exclusively by the private sector while evil things like the sale of alcohol and cigarettes should be done exclusively by the state.

realitykeeper

kylith wrote: »

How is charging me more for a few quiet beers at home rewarding me?

Your kid will be less likely to be killed by a drunken driver or caught up in a drink fueled brawl. Your trip on the bus or the train is less likely to be spoiled by drunken louts and even if is is they will be less drunk than they would without a mup.

Leroy42

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I honestly don't think the average Joe understands what is about to happen until they stroll into their local Tesco and see what is in front of them.

Brexit will be in 6 months anyway. We'll have duty free shopping in Newry to look foward to. Might not be a bad business idea to start a click and collect drive-tru on the borderlands.

We didn't have duty free before the SM, isn't it likely that Ireland will look to exclude NI from duty free

Reputable Rog

realitykeeper wrote: »

Your kid will be less likely to be killed by a drunken driver or caught up in a drink fueled brawl. Your trip on the bus or the train is less likely to be spoiled by drunken louts and even if is is they will be less drunk than they would without a mup.

Drunken driver on the way back from Tesco? Necking a slab at the traffic lights?
Drunken fueled brawl whilst watching Graham Norton?
Seriously the trolling is tiresome.

Reputable Rog

Leroy42 wrote: »

We didn't have duty free before the SM, isn't it likely that Ireland will look to exclude NI from duty free

Yes we did, we've had since 1947.

Fr Tod Umptious

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Drunken driver on the way back from Tesco? Necking a slab at the traffic lights?
Drunken fueled brawl whilst watching Graham Norton?
Seriously the trolling is tiresome.

I love the way so many people on this thread are deliberately ignorant of the points being made.

McMurphy

Deedsie wrote: »

They are more concerned with their own bank balance than the improvements this bill will hopefully have for society. It is an embarrassment that Irishness and Irish people are stereotyped as feckless drunks. Hopefully this bill will improve the overall health of people, reduce the amount of people dying due to alcohol, improve our relationship with alcohol. Reduce domestic issues among families where alcohol is a trigger etc etc

I am delighted the bill finally got through the D.

Who?

The politicians and their VFI pals?

Doctor Jimbob

Deedsie wrote: »

Build a bridge chief. Its already gone through the D. Hopefully in five years time the bill will be a proven success. There is still a lot more work needed to be done. And I am looking at pubs and nightclubs when i say that.

We have to stop serving alcohhol to people who are already heavily intoxicated. The publican needs to be punished for that.

How exactly would you prove the bill has been a success? Alcohol use is already dropping, so it dropping further can't necessarily be attributed to this bill.

Doctor Jimbob

Deedsie wrote: »

They are more concerned with their own bank balance than the improvements this bill will hopefully have for society. It is an embarrassment that Irishness and Irish people are stereotyped as feckless drunks. Hopefully this bill will improve the overall health of people, reduce the amount of people dying due to alcohol, improve our relationship with alcohol. Reduce domestic issues among families where alcohol is a trigger etc etc

I am delighted the bill finally got through the D.

It likely won't have any effect on me as the alcohol I buy is generally more expensive than the minimum price. I'm concerned because the government are setting a minimum price on something, which I don't think is a good idea in general. On top of this, the extra money is going to those who sell it rather than going towards mitigating any harm caused by it. That's a monumentally stupid way of dealing with things.

If the government were genuinely concerned about alcohol, they'd take steps to get rid of the attitude that the pub is central to our social lives, they'd have made this a tax and put the money towards alcohol-related harm, and get rid of their own discounted bar. They're not doing any of that though, because public houses are of bigger concern to them than public health.

If the bill does end up doing good then fantastic, I'm all for it, I'm just hugely sceptical that will be the case.

KevinCavan

More tax for the government to waste!

McMurphy

KevinCavan wrote: »

More tax for the government to waste!

Except it's not a tax increase.....

How many times?

hatrickpatrick

realitykeeper wrote: »

Your kid will be less likely to be killed by a drunken driver or caught up in a drink fueled brawl.

Fixing the justice system would target those individuals without the same collateral damage.

Your trip on the bus or the train is less likely to be spoiled by drunken louts and even if is is they will be less drunk than they would without a mup.

What if I enjoy seeing people partying and having a good time when I'm getting a late DART home?

kylith

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

If the government were genuinely concerned about alcohol, they'd take steps to get rid of the attitude that the pub is central to our social lives, they'd have made this a tax and put the money towards alcohol-related harm, and get rid of their own discounted bar. They're not doing any of that though, because public houses are of bigger concern to them than public health.

Exactly. This bill is nothing but a punishment on those of us who don't enjoy drinking in pubs.

Tackling anti-social behaviour at closing time would be a much better use of the government's time rather than going after sensible home drinkers who cause the vast, vast minority of drink-related issues.

Leroy42

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Yes we did, we've had since 1947.

My memory, and it could quite easily be wrong, was that you were limited to the amount you could buy and bring over the border. And that it wasn't duty free.

So it is likely that customs will enforce a maximum.

Fr Tod Umptious

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It likely won't have any effect on me as the alcohol I buy is generally more expensive than the minimum price. I'm concerned because the government are setting a minimum price on something, which I don't think is a good idea in general. On top of this, the extra money is going to those who sell it rather than going towards mitigating any harm caused by it. That's a monumentally stupid way of dealing with things.

If the government were genuinely concerned about alcohol, they'd take steps to get rid of the attitude that the pub is central to our social lives, they'd have made this a tax and put the money towards alcohol-related harm, and get rid of their own discounted bar. They're not doing any of that though, because public houses are of bigger concern to them than public health.

If the bill does end up doing good then fantastic, I'm all for it, I'm just hugely sceptical that will be the case.

Initiatives like the work place smoking ban, the return to 11.30 closing on a Thursday and tougher drink driving measures have been introduced to the detriment of the pub.

I'd say if this thread was about a policy that specifically targeted pubs the same characters would be out here complaining about how it adversely affected the guy who just wants to have a few pints in the pub.

Fr Tod Umptious

kylith wrote: »

Exactly. This bill is nothing but a punishment on those of us who don't enjoy drinking in pubs.

Tackling anti-social behaviour at closing time would be a much better use of the government's time rather than going after sensible home drinkers who cause the vast, vast minority of drink-related issues.

And getting tanked up on cheap supermarket booze before going out has nothing to do with that anti social behaviour?

kylith

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

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And getting tanked up on cheap supermarket booze before going out has nothing to do with that anti social behaviour?

Which is a symptom of a disfunctional attitude to alcohol in society as a whole, which is something that needs to be addressed and won't be by MUP. Young people will continue to drink the cheapest crap that they can get their hands on as long as it's cheaper than going to the pub.

What people need to realise is that in countries like Italy and France wine is freely available, cheap, and openly drunk by people in front of their children in moderation, which leads to a healthy attitude to it. Meanwhile the countries which seek to make alcohol prohibitively expensive and hide it away, like Ireland and Nordic countries, consistently have more issues with problem drinking and anti-social behaviour.

Reputable Rog

kylith wrote: »

Which is a symptom of a disfunctional attitude to alcohol in society as a whole, which is something that needs to be addressed and won't be by MUP. Young people will continue to drink the cheapest crap that they can get their hands on as long as it's cheaper than going to the pub.

What people need to realise is that in countries like Italy and France wine is freely available, cheap, and openly drunk by people in front of their children in moderation, which leads to a healthy attitude to it. Meanwhile the countries which seek to make alcohol prohibitively expensive and hide it away, like Ireland and Nordic countries, consistently have more issues with problem drinking and anti-social behaviour.

You're wasting your time, it's a group of trolls working in tandem to just wind people up.
I wish to mods would step in and put a halt to it.

Wheres Me Jumper?

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

kylith wrote: »

Which is a symptom of a disfunctional attitude to alcohol in society as a whole, which is something that needs to be addressed and won't be by MUP. Young people will continue to drink the cheapest crap that they can get their hands on as long as it's cheaper than going to the pub.

What people need to realise is that in countries like Italy and France wine is freely available, cheap, and openly drunk by people in front of their children in moderation, which leads to a healthy attitude to it. Meanwhile the countries which seek to make alcohol prohibitively expensive and hide it away, like Ireland and Nordic countries, consistently have more issues with problem drinking and anti-social behaviour.

there is little or no evidence to suggest that introducing alcohol at a younger age helps "educate" kids/teens to the detrimental effects of drink. indeed the opposite holds true, ie the longer/older one leaves the regular consumption of alcohol the better the outcomes.