Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118273251#Comment_118273251

Its a done deal. Approved by TDs quite some time ago.

Potential-Monke

So, seeing as it's a done deal and it's on the way in, and seeing as it's not technically a tax and suppliers/retailers are going to pocket the extra, should we not then put pressure on any off-licence to contribute the new profit directly towards health services. See if the people who sell the poison want to help those they got addicted to it, or just typical greedy cnuts who don't care about anything but the bottom line.

And from what someone said above, I'd 100% be behind a alcohol advertising ban similar to tobacco. Madness that alcohol companies sponsor major, family sporting events. We want to reduce the issues with drink, and it has had some success with tobacco (again, Google thinking I want certain articles instead of the terms I'm actually searching for, it's gone to the dogs!), but it seems like it was anyway.

If an additional tax were to be imposed in place of vat/excise increases, and were to be designated eg, Added Health Tax, it could also potentially be applied to other substances like cigarettes & gambling and ring-fenced for mental healthcare to the benefit of society in general.

L1011

The reason they're not going to do it via extra tax is that this was never a health measure - its a publican / old fashioned off-licence support scheme. Extra tax would have to be paid by publicans too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276138#Comment_118276138

More’s the pity.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270978#Comment_118270978

So why are you in this thread?

Bigmac1euro

Something tells me this might have something to do with MUP

why would Heineken buy these companies?

https://jrnl.ie/5621391

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277229#Comment_118277229

They've had a large stake in that company for a couple of years now. It would have happened sooner or later.

Bigmac1euro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277238#Comment_118277238

25% but now they own the lot.

why would you buy a company that sells cheap largers/ciders which MUP may take them out?

I assume there’ll be feck all cheap brands once MUP comes in?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277252#Comment_118277252

Comans don't just sell cheap beer, they do a lot of quality wines and spirits. Major supplier to hotels and restaurants as well.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276564#Comment_118276564

Oh, sorry, who do i ask for permission to post an opinion on an opinion forum?

I'll remember this rule when people who don't consume cannabis comment in threads about cannabis. Thanks!

techman1

Be a big rise in inflation in January so, a very bad time to bring this in. Unless they fiddle the figures so that the alcohol weighting in consumer price index is reduced, I wouldn't put it past them

-=al=-

I presume if Heineken can charge base MUP for the cheaper brands they can maintain Heineken and the other premium brands they own at a higher prices. They own tonnes of diff brands.

It's still nuts the way MUP has come about and they're still at it. If the extra cash was going the help/improve services, nbd, but it isn't. It never even really worked in Scotland, and I believe alcohol consumption is still dropping in Éire, iirc. I've definitely noticed a general vibe from friends/family and myself included, drinking less. Maybe it's Covid or lack of interest, who knows.

lertsnim

The shops on the other side of the border will be doing a roaring trade. The idiots making the laws here don't seem to acknowledge it.

listermint

I see the who's who of alcohol action ireland are out in force last two days. Void of factual data but big on the prohibition.

Rattling crucifixes out the windows.

Classic work lads keep it up.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279778#Comment_118279778

They aren't going anyway any time soon.

They will chalk up the MUP nonsense as a victory and continue with their neo-prohibitionist agenda.

How are they are getting away with it ?

From their website -

Alcohol Action Ireland, the national independent advocate for reducing alcohol harm,

Our principal funder is currently the Health Service Executive (HSE) with additional funding sourced, periodically, from the Department of Health/Healthy Ireland and National Lottery Grants.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270553#Comment_118270553

somebody who is addicted will not reduce their consumption. that is how addiction works. they will stop spending money on other stuff. and it isn't a stealth tax. at least a stealth would give the money to the government. this extra cost goes straight into the pockets of retailers. I can't believe that after nearly 6000 posts people are still posting this tired nonsense that it isn't such a bad idea after all.

ablelocks

am i right in thinking that wine will be the least affected drink - if the MUP on a bottle of wine is 7.40, the majority wines are already above this level. To take supervalu as an example, most wines on sale currently start at about €8

sully123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279321#Comment_118279321

No, it's more like 22e

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118283825#Comment_118283825

€7.40 will be a rare MUP for red wine as few are 12.5%. That's more of a white wine percentage. The more normal 13.5% will be €8 under MUP.

It's possible I guess that stores may source more wine in the 11.5%/12% range just to have headline low prices?

Also I wouldn't take Spar prices as a reference base. There are plenty of perfectly serviceable wines in the €5 price slot in Aldi and Lidl, which will obviously have a sizeable increase.

ArmaniJeanss

Here's a decent calculator by the way (something similar may well have been posted already). Just enter in the size of your bottle/can and the alcohol percentage.

Minimum Unit Pricing Calculator for Alcohol | Irish Wine Reviews

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118282746#Comment_118282746

Right, so your own personal main reason for not wanting this coming in is because of how badly it'll affect the alcoholics?

Will write apply the same theory across the board? No increase in the price of anything in case the addicts get worse?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285087#Comment_118285087

jesus, you really did go out of your way to read that completely wrongly. pathetic.

Macy0161

Drinking : 42% of drinkers are stating they are drinking less with binge drinking down significantly, reduced to 15% of the population as compared to 28% before the pandemic

Alcohol consumption

66% of people have consumed alcohol in the previous 6 months, with those aged 15-24 (70%) and men (68%) most likely to do so

37% of the population aged 15 and older drink alcohol at least once a week. This compares to 41% in the previous measurement in 2018

15% of the population (22% of drinkers) binge drink on a typical drinking occasion. This compares to 28% (37% of drinkers) in 2018

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/9ef45-the-healthy-ireland-survey-2021/

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118283825#Comment_118283825

Aldi does cheap and cheerful wine at €3.99 a bottle so MUP is nearly doubling the price.

And all the costs would be the same with MUP so Aldi would hand over 64c of the increase in VAT and pocket €2.77 as pure profit over and above their current profit.

Unlike beer, wine already had jumps in excise of €1 a bottle in 2012 and 50c in 2013 so beer could be increased that way rather than MUP. And as we all know those increases caused an instant and permanent change in wine drinking, mar dhea 🙄

If wine excise had been treated like beer those Aldi bottles would be €2.50 now and wine consumption would be rampant.

macraignil

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

I think this minimum alcohol pricing will do nothing to influence alcohol consumption which as others have pointed out is already falling. It will just lead to some retailers with more money in their pocket and a slight government gain in VAT. It will lead to some consumers with less money in their pocket and effect those on lower incomes disproportionately. It has already failed to help addiction problems in Scotland with continued increases in drug related deaths most likely made worse with some of the figures due to increased numbers of people trying to get some sort of high off illegal substances because it is a bit more expensive to have a legally purchased drink.

I do like to occasionally have a few cans at home when watching football as I live too far from a pub to go there regularly and using the calculator for minimum pricing the beer can I currently like to drink from Lidl will go from 1.10euro per can to 1.98euro per can.

I liked the system I saw in Sweden which at one time had a severe problem with alcohol related deaths and they allowed sale in normal shops of any alcohol up to 3.5% strength but then had much more strictly regulated sales of anything stronger. I think they are acually after putting a bit of thought into their policy and tried to change the rules to protect people unlike the MUP policy here which alows govermnment appear like they are doing something about alcoholism while in reality they are just making some people on lower incomes poorer.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285102#Comment_118285102

What's your point so? Seeing as I read the last one completely wrong, maybe spell it out for me a bit better.

I get the feeling that no one actually cares about anyone else except themselves who'll have to fork out a few more euro for their booze. If people were a bit more honest, maybe we wouldn't be getting confused.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118283825#Comment_118283825

Yes, but when the current 3.99 wine in Lidl is 7.40, the 8 quid wine won't be 8 anymore. Market segmentation will be preserved. By whapping up prices on the mid-range too.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286237#Comment_118286237

my point was pretty clear. it was pretty simple english. you clearly have no interest in trying to understand what is being said to you

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286237#Comment_118286237

really weird that you deleted the two responses you made to me last night.

pleasant Co.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288612#Comment_118288612

He can't delete his posts no more than you can remember, it was probably mod deleted for having little relevance to the topic.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288650#Comment_118288650

 it was probably mod deleted for having little relevance to the topic.

i forgot you can't delete posts anymore so that is a very likely scenario.

Hotblack Desiato

@macraignil ah, you were doing great until you got to this bit:

I liked the system I saw in Sweden which at one time had a severe problem with alcohol related deaths and they allowed sale in normal shops of any alcohol up to 3.5% strength but then had much more strictly regulated sales of anything stronger. 

A state-owned monopoly with ridiculous opening hours, high prices and poor selection is the very last thing anyone should want. 3.5% is barely beer. What this encourages is for people to just say to hell with it and stock up on spirits (because you can't risk being stuck without at the weekend when the rip-off shop's closed) which then gets drunk in a binge - and I don't mean the Irish prohibition lobby's "two pints is a binge" here

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286237#Comment_118286237

Isn't it somewhat hypocritical that a person who is calling for a legal drug to be more regulated and to cost more is saying that those opposed only care for themselves, meanwhile this person regularly consumes and is an advocate for an illegal, totally unregulated and relatively cheap drug.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289089#Comment_118289089

It would be hilarious if the state decided to have a monopoly on off sales of alcohol. the uproar would be fantastic.

Hotblack Desiato

The pub lobby would love it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289667#Comment_118289667

the supermarkets would hate it.

macraignil

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289089#Comment_118289089

I agree with you completely and I'm not advocating the state monopoly aspect of what happens in Sweden but just that there is a separation between how stronger types of alcohol are sold compared to less concentrated types. I found 3.5% beer tasted nice and did not notice the 0.8% less alcohol content compared to the beer I would have more commonly been drinking in Ireland at the time.

The Irish government has already been reducing the opening hours for alcohol sales at all retailers in the country in recent years and now with MUP coming in they are legislating for universal high prices where due to excise and other taxes they already are at a very high level compared to other parts of Europe. I also heard they were intent on bringing in labeling regulations that would make it nonviable for a lot of smaller brands being sold here as they would need special health warnings specific to the Irish market. I'm all for less restrictive regulation of the sale of alcohol here which is already very strict in my opinion and is just another side of the nanny state philosophy that the current government think will keep them in power as they portrait any other political options as not being a safe pair of hands in running the country.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291711#Comment_118291711

Lower strength beers may do well under the the new MUP regime. As you say some of them are quite palatable.

Just on the politics of MUP, it's worth noting that it has cross party support so a change of government will be unlikely to matter.

macraignil

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292011#Comment_118292011

No change in government likely here from what I have seen of Irish politics. The opposition parties in this country are abysmal and if one of them had any interest in standing up for people on lower wages there could have been some chance of avoiding this legislation that's only result will be people without high level jobs finding budgeting to have some sort of enjoyment made more difficult.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292345#Comment_118292345

I don't know if there will be a change in government at the next election.

You are correct in that MUP is particularly unfair on people with lower incomes who enjoy a drink at home.

All parties will have to explain their rationale for supporting MUP when the reality becomes clear in January.

Hotblack Desiato

It's quite simple, those who are priced out of the alcohol market will just turn to the drugs market - quite a bit of evidence of this happening in Scotland.

andekwarhola

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118283825#Comment_118283825

Wine, spirits and craft beer aren't in the cross hairs. It's macro stouts and lagers sold in slabs and the like. The kind of purchases that divert money away from garden variety publicans who don't do food or craft beer. The ones that have the ear of the government about their god-given right to have a livelihood.

elperello

There is a certain sector of the population who for one reason or another drink to alter their mental state.

One can only assume that these people will still want to alter their mental state in January when MUP is introduced.

If they can't afford the amount of drink necessary to achieve that effect some of them will turn to other sources.

We all know that illegal drugs are available in every city, town and village in the country.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298379#Comment_118298379

Aldi/Lidl lower end wines, wine offers, own brand spirits and offers on mainstream branded spirits are very much in the crosshairs.

Hotblack Desiato

Poitin (the real thing, not the licensed stuff) should get a boost

Esel

Home brew, wine etc. People will be blowing the head off themselves... 🤢 🤮

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298379#Comment_118298379

They will all be affected.

andekwarhola

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118299125#Comment_118299125

Fair point. I don't really drink wine and spirits so hadn't thought of that in terms of budget deals. I love craft beers so that won't be affected but I really enjoy multiple pack stuff like Aldi Rheinbacher too which will probably double in price once this hits.

andekwarhola

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118298439#Comment_118298439

This is what so knuckle headed about it. A blunt price hike won't stop problem drinking, just increase the social problems around obtaining the money. And alcohol consumption here is generally dropping anyway. It's a typically Irish lobby reaction. React to changing markets and societal trends with brute force state intervention and patronage.