Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Hotblack Desiato

Suckit wrote: »

It would mean that they would have to check every vehicle coming in, or expect everyone to declare it.

I for one look for forward to this new black market they are creating and see what criminals can grow from it.. :pac:

Totally unfair on Ireland as we have no land border with another EU state. Much easier to enforce when your only options are air and sea travel :mad:

Shelflife

The problem atm is that you are allowed to bring back as many cigarettes as you like from an EU country as long as they are for personal use.

So you can bring in as much as you want with virtual impunity.

These then end up being sold to friends for half the price that they are in Ireland .

This means that the Irish exchequer gets nothing in vat and excise, loses out on the tax on profits made by those handling legitimate sales in Ireland and the income tax on their employees pay.

On top of that the Irish health system has to fund the cost of the inevitable sickness that will come as a result of this.

Something needs to change to stop this .

elperello

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/alcohol-tobacco-cash/index_en.htm#:~:text=These%20maximum%20amounts%20must%20be,200%20cigars

According to this link all they have to do is enforce the existing rules.

Suckit

elperello wrote: »

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/alcohol-tobacco-cash/index_en.htm#:~:text=These%20maximum%20amounts%20must%20be,200%20cigars

According to this link all they have to do is enforce the existing rules.

I don't think so.

As a private individual, there are no limits on what you can buy and take with you when travelling between EU countries as long as the products purchased are for your own use and not for resale. Taxes (VAT and excise) are included in the price of the product in the country where you bought it, so no further payments are due in any other EU country.
However, to determine if the products you have bought are for your own use, EU customs authorities can look at several different elements such as, if you own or work for a commercial business, how the goods are packaged and transported etc. They will also look at the quantity of products you are travelling with.
Warning

Be aware that each EU country can decide on a maximum amount of tobacco products and alcoholic beverages that you can bring into the country. These maximum amounts must be at least:

• 800 cigarettes
• 400 cigarillos (cigars weighing maximum 3 grams each)
• 200 cigars
• 1 kg of tobacco
• 10 litres of spirits
• 20 litres of fortified wine
• 90 litres of wine (including a maximum of 60 litres of sparkling wines)
• 110 litres of beer

There is nothing there that I can see, to reinforce.
They could lower the amount of each Country down to the figures above, but even that would be a decent amount if stocking up.
There is nothing about any hidden option to impose duty on other EU members for no valid reason.
I can't imagine it will happen for too many reasons.

elperello

Suckit wrote: »

I don't think so.

There is nothing there that I can see, to reinforce.
They could lower the amount of each Country down to the figures above, but even that would be a decent amount if stocking up.
There is nothing about any hidden option to impose duty on other EU members for no valid reason.
I can't imagine it will happen for too many reasons.

As I see it these upper limits only apply to people with vehicles and the vast majority of Irish residents don't make visits to EU countries with vehicles.

Even if the small proportion who do all brought in the full allowance on each trip they make it would be a tiny fraction of the total market.

So, if they enforced the current limits the loss in revenue would be small in comparative terms.

People travelling by air cannot bring bottles bought in the departure country
due to security restrictions and are therefore limited to 4 cartons of cigarettes which is only 40 days supply for a 20 a day smoker.

I hope you are right and it never happens.

Suckit

But it shouldn't matter how many people are bringing the legal amount as long as they aren't selling it, there shouldn't be any duty or tax to be paid on the amounts that they have set.
But they are saying now that might change.
I know a couple that drive to France every year (maybe twice) and stock up on wine. I can't see myself ever doing that, but if the MUP and any other possible shenanigans that they can dream up start to make a big enough difference that a trip to France or Spain might be worth it in the long run, I will be either making the trip myself or availing of the offers (is they still come) that I have got from others who go, to pick me up a couple of cases of beer and wine and maybe some spirits while they are there.
I could pay for it and pay them for their trouble and still save money.
If they could introduce this, they could introduce anything.

elperello

So they should leave well enough alone.

But they won't because they are always looking for solutions to non existent problems.

As you say the limits are ok and rule out commercial sellers as they are.

With the cost of ferries it would never make sense to go to France or Spain specially to get cheap booze so folk will only buy it if they are there anyway on holiday.

Our Government introduced VRT and are to introduce MUP and the EU said ok.

Hotblack Desiato

elperello wrote: »

People travelling by air cannot bring bottles bought in the departure country due to security restrictions and are therefore limited to 4 cartons of cigarettes which is only 40 days supply for a 20 a day smoker.

Cigarettes don't usually come in bottles... anyway there's nothing stopping you going to France or whereever and buying the full amounts and bringing them back, this is duty-paid tobacco and alcohol remember.

As for VRT we are not the only EU country with a registration tax, cars in Denmark cost way more than here

User142

Fine Gael Senator Paddy Burke it could be introduced now “when travel to the North is limited. It shouldn’t be beyond the bounds of possibility for us in the South to introduce it.”

Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fg-seanad-leader-backs-call-for-minimum-unit-pricing-on-alcohol-1.4485795?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I am kind of stuck for words on this. Is he saying in essence this won't impact Irish retail because we have the population under house arrest so they can't avail of cheaper prices up North.

ShamNNspace

User142 wrote: »

I am kind of stuck for words on this. Is he saying in essence this won't impact Irish retail because we have the population under house arrest so they can't avail of cheaper prices up North.

Hes cute that fella and not in a good way, one to watch bit of a political bruiser

elperello

Crowe is from Galway. He was making a lot of noise trying to get the pubs open before Christmas so people could drink in a "safe controlled environment".

Burke was one of the Clifden Golfgate guys.

I'd say neither of them bother with trying to get a few cans at the right price.

We have enough to put up with at the moment without increasing the cost of drink.

Hotblack Desiato

Banning loyalty points/vouchers on alcohol was quite a large increase in the price of drink if you'd been playing your cards right before :mad:

ShamNNspace

So my 5 bottles of spaten for which I paid €10 for (5 for a tenner) are now €13in the local shop, I suppose those silly cowboy style saloon doors that have sprung up everywhere have to be paid for. A nonsense that achieved nothing apart from rising the prices for the ordinary punter and this is only the start, by a bunch of die-hard po-faced joyless prohibitionistas

ShamNNspace

ShamNNspace wrote: »

So my 5 bottles of spaten for which I paid €10 for (5 for a tenner) are now €13in the local shop, I suppose those silly cowboy style saloon doors that have sprung up everywhere have to be paid for. A nonsense that achieved nothing apart from rising the prices for the ordinary punter and this is only the start, by a bunch of die-hard po-faced joyless prohibitionistas

Saloon style doors which everyone in the shop has to touch in someway to open. During a pandemic. Well done government.

User142

User142 wrote: »

I am kind of stuck for words on this. Is he saying in essence this won't impact Irish retail because we have the population under house arrest so they can't avail of cheaper prices up North.

Thats exactly what he's saying.

The funny thing is, if you want to see non-compliance on a massive scale, bring this in now. Everyone in the country will obtain a sick aunty Mary in Derry.

listermint

ShamNNspace wrote: »

So my 5 bottles of spaten for which I paid €10 for (5 for a tenner) are now €13in the local shop, I suppose those silly cowboy style saloon doors that have sprung up everywhere have to be paid for. A nonsense that achieved nothing apart from rising the prices for the ordinary punter and this is only the start, by a bunch of die-hard po-faced joyless prohibitionistas

But there were many zealots in this very thread who said the price of premium alcohol would remain unchanged . Sure it was only ever the bargain basement stuff that would be impacted by these updates.....


Nothing to worry about... Only poor drunk people will be effected etc etc etc etc etc

Hotblack Desiato

Deleted User wrote: »

Saloon style doors which everyone in the shop has to touch in someway to open. During a pandemic. Well done government.

Elbow or trolley for the win - what's annoying is when someone thinks they're doing you a favour holding it open for you. No you're not, now get your two metres please! :rolleyes:

My local Lidl has automatic doors! They keep opening the whole time because they're too close to the checkout.

The doors (or the previous 'booze burka' stroke of 'genius') are an utterly stupid idea but this is Dail Eireann we are talking about here

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats exactly what he's saying.

The funny thing is, if you want to see non-compliance on a massive scale, bring this in now. Everyone in the country will obtain a sick aunty Mary in Derry.

The sad thing is that wouldn't happen. We'll just pay it anyway. And those of us who are disgruntled wont have anyone to vote for who is opposed to these measures as every single member of the Oireachtas is in agreement with the measures. I mean they may as well double the price, what would we do about it in Ireland? Nothing. Sigh.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The sad thing is that wouldn't happen. We'll just pay it anyway. And those of us who are disgruntled wont have anyone to vote for who is opposed to these measures as every single member of the Oireachtas is in agreement with the measures. I mean they may as well double the price, what would we do about it in Ireland? Nothing. Sigh.

Prices between here and northern ireland are currently close enough together that the saving doesn't cover the petrol to go north. Once prices go up significantly there will be an exodus to the north. About a decade ago when the price difference was much bigger the car parks in Newry were half full of South registered cars.

KrustyUCC

User142 wrote: »

I am kind of stuck for words on this. Is he saying in essence this won't impact Irish retail because we have the population under house arrest so they can't avail of cheaper prices up North.

"Mr Crowe pointed to Scotland which introduced minimum unit pricing two years ago and in that time “the rate of consumption has been at its lowest in 25 years. More importantly, the number of hospital admissions for liver disease among the lowest income groups has been significantly reduced."

Mr Crowe must have missed the increase in drug use in Scotland since MUP came in

Funny politicians

Keep us locked up for months on end and nowhere to go but now they want to increase the cost of alcohol again

I can't see an increasingly unpopular government going on a solo run withy this during the pandemic

-=al=-

Worth noting as an example in Scotland there’s 500ml bottles of decent branded ipa’s for a cool £1.25 each. Other alcohol is still also relatively cheap in comparison such as a branded litre of Rum for £16

Even with minimum pricing, that works out at £5 for four 500ml bottles of beer... or €5.74! A litre of branded rum for €18.36

That’s probably about half of the Irish prices and yet the Scottish alcohol related issues still managed to be the lowest in 25 years

Minimum pricing might not have helped but there’s probably other issues that contributed to the crazy high drug issues in Scotland. From an Irish prospective alcohol is still reasonably priced in comparison even with minimum pricing... not sure the same can’t be said for Ireland

Minimum drug pricing would obviously solve the Scottish drug problem if you asked Irish politicians. Cowboys. Different country, issues, and solutions. Cherry picking stats and then applying them to Ireland is tiresome

aziz

KrustyUCC wrote: »

”

I can't see an increasingly unpopular government going on a solo run withy this during the pandemic

Don’t underestimate how stupid our government can be

OldRio

Deleted User wrote: »

Prices between here and northern ireland are currently close enough together that the saving doesn't cover the petrol to go north. Once prices go up significantly there will be an exodus to the north. About a decade ago when the price difference was much bigger the car parks in Newry were half full of South registered cars.

I have no idea of the current prices due to lockdown but I can assure you the prices pre lockdown were a damn site cheaper for Wine and Spirits. A decade ago people were shopping in the North because the exchange rate was excellent

OldRio

OldRio wrote: »

I have no idea of the current prices due to lockdown but I can assure you the prices pre lockdown were a damn site cheaper for Wine and Spirits. A decade ago people were shopping in the North because the exchange rate was excellent

You don't need to assure me, I know prices were cheaper pre-covid. What in my post suggested otherwise?

Prices north of the border have always been cheaper. Throw in favourable exchange rates and going north for booze was commonplace.

For a current day comparison, 700ml of Jameson in Tesco in Northern Ireland is £22.50(26 euro) - but if you have a clubcard it is £17(19.54 euro).

In Ireland, the same bottle, which is made in this country is 27 euro. And due to recent changes legislation, you can't get clubcard points from it anymore.

Macy0161

Tesco have some of their former 4 for €10/ 3 for €9. I only look at craft, but they their O'Hara's that were 4 for €10 reduced to €2.50, and the O'Brother that was 3 for €9 reduced to €3. Doesn't look like the McGargles or Trouble Brewing are back at their effective pre-legislation "4 for" price.

KrustyUCC

Macy0161 wrote: »

Tesco have some of their former 4 for €10/ 3 for €9. I only look at craft, but they their O'Hara's that were 4 for €10 reduced to €2.50, and the O'Brother that was 3 for €9 reduced to €3. Doesn't look like the McGargles or Trouble Brewing are back at their effective pre-legislation "4 for" price.

Thanks

I must stock up on some O'Haras

Definitely will be having a Leann Follain over the weekend

hatrickpatrick

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Definitely will be having a Leann Follain over the weekend

Seriously, seriously underrated stout. Absolutely delicious stuff particularly when the weather is still cold in the evenings.

discodiva92

Is it worth buying in the north now?Uncle is a truck driver up every week

dubrov

KrustyUCC wrote:

"Mr Crowe pointed to Scotland which introduced minimum unit pricing two years ago and in that time “the rate of consumption has been at its lowest in 25 years. More importantly, the number of hospital admissions for liver disease among the lowest income groups has been significantly reduced."

KrustyUCC wrote:

Mr Crowe must have missed the increase in drug use in Scotland since MUP came in

He also missed that the rate of consumption had been dropping for years in Scotland before minimum pricing was introduced. It doesn't seem to have impacted the trend either way

Amirani

dubrov wrote: »

He also missed that the rate of consumption had been dropping for years in Scotland before minimum pricing was introduced. It doesn't seem to have impacted the trend either way

Covid has reduced consumption levels across the UK as a whole too.