Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

People can no longer binge drink all night in crowded pubs.
They are forced to buy cheaper supermarket alcohol instead.

And consumption has dropped by 6%.

Im fond of the odd tipple myself, but even before covid I was frequenting the pub less frequently. Most of my friends would say the same. The cost, and the noise, are less appealing than they once were.

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

Im fond of the odd tipple myself, but even before covid I was frequenting the pub less frequently. Most of my friends would say the same. The cost, and the noise, are less appealing than they once were.

Exactly which is why publicans lobbied HEAVILY for MUP

c.p.w.g.w

Anecdotal alert...

Myself and my brother have pretty much reduced our alcohol consumption to zero over the last 6 months(brother is probably 16 months)...

Most of my mates have reduced the amount of booze they drink since March 2020, but might drink 2-3 times a week at home now, but less than they would have consumed on typical Saturday night out...

The one thing the government should be doing instead of minimum pricing is curtailing advertising of booze...know a few people who are alcoholics(in early stages of recovery) and they find the consent booze adverts too much

dubrov

Booze (and gambling) advertising is a difficult one.
So much of it is tied up in sport advertising.

If you pull the plug a lot of local clubs would lose a lot of funding which would be a political disaster.

Personally I feel it would be much more effective than MUP and allows people to make their own choice.

Look at cigarettes. The price went up year after year with no impact on consumption. Only when advertising was banned did the numbers start to fall.

brightspark

VinLieger wrote: »

The cultural change started happening in the mid noughties

Publicans started to kill the golden goose in the last days of 1999 when they thought that they could charge significantly higher prices for the millennium new year's eve night.
Many people decided to have their own parties at home that year and realised that they could have as good a time at home as in a pub for a fraction of the cost.

Price increases in the following years didn't help them either.

Fr Tod Umptious

VinLieger wrote: »

The cultural change started happening in the mid noughties when our consumption began dropping and has continued to do so year over year since then. Its just many people like yourself who don't think people should be allowed enjoy themselves in the freedom of their own homes have an agenda they have based their careers on that still needs to be pushed.

Hyperbole alert.

KrustyUCC

Govt seeks to move sooner on banning cheap alcohol sales

It is understood that Junior Minister with responsibility for public health Frank Feighan does not want to wait another year to introduce the measures.

He will hold discussions with stakeholders including publicans and off-licences on moving sooner.

The Programme for Government committed to implementing minimum unit pricing in consultation with Northern Ireland.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0315/1204194-alcohol-pricing-ireland/

What bloody idiots

Wanting to move ahead of Northern Ireland and in the middle of a pandemic

Cross border shopping will really increase and this move is going to piss off people more who are being required to stay home for months on end

No sign of hospitality for over half of year and now the government want to increase price on our already very costly alcohol

cadaliac

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Govt seeks to move sooner on banning cheap alcohol sales

It is understood that Junior Minister with responsibility for public health Frank Feighan does not want to wait another year to introduce the measures.

He will hold discussions with stakeholders including publicans and off-licences on moving sooner.

The Programme for Government committed to implementing minimum unit pricing in consultation with Northern Ireland.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0315/1204194-alcohol-pricing-ireland/

What bloody idiots

Wanting to move ahead of Northern Ireland and in the middle of a pandemic

Cross border shopping will really increase and this move is going to piss off people more who are being required to stay home for months on end

No sign of hospitality for over half of year and now the government want to increase price on our already very costly alcohol

That is really punishing everyone for the actions of a few.
Cannot see that going ahead without serious backlash

listermint

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Hyperbole alert.

It's not hyperbole. Your coming after people's pockets with a smile . It's only a few more years and you'll be inside their front doors.

VinLieger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Hyperbole alert.

Ohh really?

Heres the vintners claiming it was dangerous to drink at home all the way back 2007, 2 years into the 15 years of year over year decline of per person alcohol consumption.

https://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/vintners-issue-warning-to-home-binge-drinkers-26311458.html

"In pubs we can control the amount that someone drinks. We have spirit measures that we must abide by and we can also refuse people more alcohol if they get too drunk", said VFI spokesperson Paul Bell.
"But with the low cost of alcohol, drinking in the home before going to the pub has become a trend. It's very dangerous because people are pouring their own spirit measures and drinking more than they can handle.
"It also means that alcohol can be abused more freely. In a pub you have to make sure that everyone is over--age. But if an older friend buys drink for someone underage in an off-licence or supermarket there is no-one there to catch them.

Ive never seen or heard of someone being refused a drink unless they were literally incapable of standing or verbally ordering another drink in Ireland.

Also they seem to be inferring some kind of medical doctor level of training on bartenders who are incredibly able to gauge at a glance how much booze a person can handle as well as being specially trained to pour measures of booze...... which also they seem to imply isn't possible to do correctly outside of pubs?

Doctor Jimbob

VinLieger wrote: »

Ohh really?

Heres the vintners claiming it was dangerous to drink at home all the way back 2007, 2 years into the 15 years of year over year decline of per person alcohol consumption.





Ive never seen or heard of someone being refused a drink unless they were literally incapable of standing or verbally ordering another drink in Ireland.

Also they seem to be inferring some kind of medical doctor level of training on bartenders who are incredibly able to gauge at a glance how much booze a person can handle as well as being specially trained to pour measures of booze...... which also they seem to imply isn't possible to do correctly outside of pubs?

I had a good laugh at "in a pub you have to make sure that everyone is over age". I managed to get served in a pub and get into clubs as a baby faced 5'5 boy aged 16/17.

Thelonious Monk

cadaliac wrote: »

That is really punishing everyone for the actions of a few.
Cannot see that going ahead without serious backlash

There'll be no backlash, we'll just accept it. And they wont stop with these measures. Sigh.

KrustyUCC

Minister calls for people to toast St Patrick with water instead of alcohol

Minister of State Patrick O’Donovan has called for curbs on the sale of alcohol and for people to “drown the shamrock” with water on St Patrick’s Day.

St Patrick’s Day was a day for the garden, to work outside the house, to “steer away from alcohol. It’s not a day to see the virus creep into houses and take off,” he warned.

“I think 12 months on from the pubs being closed we saw what happened with the uncontrolled sale of alcohol - pictures from Limerick two weeks ago, that's not the only place we saw, funerals all over the place just let go totally unregulated - we saw people that died as a result of attendance at funerals.

"In counties up and down the country there have been some scandalous scenes. I hope that I'm not on your show next week saying look at what happened on St Patrick's Day.

“It's a minority that's doing this.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40245254.html

Thanks Minister but I can have a few drinks in the comfort of my own home on any day I choose

Nice to see he acknowledges it's a minority taking the mick but sure lets punish the majority of people anyway using their example

odyssey06

Playing devil's advocate here...

Alcohol consumption went down during lockdown with hospitality shutdown.
Has anyone called for this to continue?

It seems immediately effective, far more so than MUP.
So if alcohol is the scourge it is made out to be we have to keep hospitality shutdown and bin MUP!

ohnonotgmail

odyssey06 wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here...

Alcohol consumption went down during lockdown with hospitality shutdown.
Has anyone called for this to continue?

It seems immediately effective, far more so than MUP.
So if alcohol is the scourge it is made out to be we have to keep hospitality shutdown and bin MUP!

i know you are saying this in jest but don't be giving them ideas.

elperello

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

There'll be no backlash, we'll just accept it. And they wont stop with these measures. Sigh.

Indeed it is difficult to see how there could be a backlash in political terms given that all the parties in Dail Eireann are in favour of MUP.

They have acted against the interests of of a large part of the law abiding population in enacting these measures.

People are being backed into a corner by politicians who think they know what's good for their constituents.

It's never a good move to disenfranchise citizens on an issue and leave them with a feeling of being taken advantage of.

I won't forget it and will never accept it.

Doctor Jimbob

odyssey06 wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here...

Alcohol consumption went down during lockdown with hospitality shutdown.
Has anyone called for this to continue?

It seems immediately effective, far more so than MUP.
So if alcohol is the scourge it is made out to be we have to keep hospitality shutdown and bin MUP!

I'm half tempted to email that idea to a few TDs just to see what kind of spin gets put on the reply.

Amirani

odyssey06 wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here...

Alcohol consumption went down during lockdown with hospitality shutdown.
Has anyone called for this to continue?

It seems immediately effective, far more so than MUP.
So if alcohol is the scourge it is made out to be we have to keep hospitality shutdown and bin MUP!

Certainly makes a mockery of "only pubs can properly stop people from abusing alcohol" / "drinking at home is much more dangerous" stick that publicans and a certain cohort of politicians constantly come out with.

The past year has shown that people will generally drink less at home if left to their own devices.

odyssey06

Amirani wrote: »

Certainly makes a mockery of "only pubs can properly stop people from abusing alcohol" / "drinking at home is much more dangerous" stick that publicans and a certain cohort of politicians constantly come out with.
The past year has shown that people will generally drink less at home if left to their own devices.

Yes, exactly, that was the intent of my slightly mocking post to highlight how thoroughly discredited that notion is

ablelocks

i haven't read too much about this, basically ignoring it till it goes away was my attitude

but an article in the sunday times gave some specific examples of how it will affect prices (the bit in bold is my bold)

In Scotland the cheapest 700ml bottle of vodka typically sold at €12.80 until 2018 when MUP pushed it up to €16.30. Under the proposed Irish regime a 500ml can of Devils Bit Cider (6 per cent alcohol by volume) would have a MUP of €2.40; it is currently on sale in SuperValu for €1.89. A 700ml bottle of Absolut Vodka (40 per cent) would have a minimum price of €22.40; it is currently selling in Tesco for €21. Most branded beers and wines would remain unaffected however.

presumably the journalist was talking about RRP prices and not sale prices? As in, there'll be no more sub €23ish sales on spirits?

dubrov

ablelocks wrote: »

i haven't read too much about this, basically ignoring it till it goes away was my attitude

but an article in the sunday times gave some specific examples of how it will affect prices (the bit in bold is my bold)



presumably the journalist was talking about RRP prices and not sale prices? As in, there'll be no more sub €23ish sales on spirits?

I think it is trying to say that fancier beers and wines would be already above the MUP so would not change price.

Even if this was true (and in many cases it is not), if the cheapest beer is 2.40 Euro a can, the fancier stuff will increase in price as people will be willing to pay more for those beers.

ShyMets

odyssey06 wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here...

Alcohol consumption went down during lockdown with hospitality shutdown.
Has anyone called for this to continue?

It seems immediately effective, far more so than MUP.
So if alcohol is the scourge it is made out to be we have to keep hospitality shutdown and bin MUP!

I suspect a certain frog would be all for that. Please don't give them any ideas

listermint

dubrov wrote: »

I think it is trying to say that fancier beers and wines would be already above the MUP so would not change price.

Even if this was true (and in many cases it is not), if the cheapest beer is 2.40 Euro a can, the fancier stuff will increase in price as people will be willing to pay more for those beers.

This will without a shadow of a doubt happen.

-=al=-

They won’t be willing to pay more for the “fancy” beers, they’ll have to pay more for them. There is no way a nice session ipa will be cheaper than a supermarket own brand lager

GhostyMcGhost

-=al=- wrote: »

They won’t be willing to pay more for the “fancy” beers, they’ll have to pay more for them. There is no way a nice session ipa will be cheaper than a supermarket own brand lager

Some beers and spirits are priced much more expensive on the illusion that expensive = better and prestige. If the gap is suddenly closed, they’ll widen it again fairly sharp you can be 100% sure of that

Where’s Leo, who looks after the working man now? Come home from a days work and want a beer, you have to pay more because a few in the minority in society have an alcohol issue.... education before taxation is the only way to go

Speaking of where to go, where’s this extra exchequer revenue going? I can also say with absolute certainty it’s not into alcohol addiction services or any such similar service. I’d also like to see them find mental health services with it either but nope, it’s not going to happen. It’ll be pumped into the children’s hospital overrun or a new 3D printer the size of a mansion, or some other such waste

ohnonotgmail

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Some beers and spirits are priced much more expensive on the illusion that expensive = better and prestige. If the gap is suddenly closed, they’ll widen it again fairly sharp you can be 100% sure of that

Where’s Leo, who looks after the working man now? Come home from a days work and want a beer, you have to pay more because some the few in society have an alcohol issue.... education before taxation is the only way to go

Speaking of where to go, where’s this extra exchequer revenue going? I can also say with absolute certainty it’s not into alcohol addiction services or any such similar service. I’d also like to see them find mental health services with it either but nope, it’s not going to happen. It’ll be pumped into the children’s hospital overrun or a new 3D printer the size of a mansion, or some other such waste

what extra exchequer revenue?

dubrov

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Speaking of where to go, where’s this extra exchequer revenue going?

The extra cost just ends up in the seller's pocket. It'll probably the most profitable thing being sold in supermarkets which means they will be pushing it a lot more.

elperello

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Some beers and spirits are priced much more expensive on the illusion that expensive = better and prestige. If the gap is suddenly closed, they’ll widen it again fairly sharp you can be 100% sure of that

Where’s Leo, who looks after the working man now? Come home from a days work and want a beer, you have to pay more because a few in the minority in society have an alcohol issue.... education before taxation is the only way to go

Speaking of where to go, where’s this extra exchequer revenue going? I can also say with absolute certainty it’s not into alcohol addiction services or any such similar service. I’d also like to see them find mental health services with it either but nope, it’s not going to happen. It’ll be pumped into the children’s hospital overrun or a new 3D printer the size of a mansion, or some other such waste

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what extra exchequer revenue?

The real killer is that the extra you will pay for your drink of choice is going to the drinks trade not the exchequer.

Apart from the VAT that is and any economist will tell you that amount would have been collected anyway when the extra money you spend on the drink would have been spent in some other sector of the economy.

randomname2005

elperello wrote: »

The real killer is that the extra you will pay for your drink of choice is going to the drinks trade not the exchequer.

Apart from the VAT that is and any economist will tell you that amount would have been collected anyway when the extra money you spend on the drink would have been spent in some other sector of the economy.

This is framed as a health policy but just way of keeping some lobby group happy.

Why not enforce laws? And educate. Much better than forcing prices up

con___manx1

This government is a joke. It might take a year or two for this policy to come in just like the airport quarntine.
It doesn't really affect me as I don't drink much at home anyway. It will probably get more people going to the pubs if its just as expensive to drink at home.