Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

KrustyUCC

the beer revolu wrote: »

Did anyone hear the Muppet of a doctor on NewsTalk with Mark Cagney on The Hard Shoulder Yesterday?

He was allowed to completely make stuff up without being challenged and no alternative view was offered.
He claimed that back in the 80s the mainstream beers were "around 3.5%", whereas now they are 5% and over. While it's difficult to find historic ABV in beer, I have no doubt that the above is completely false.
Mainstream beers in the 80s were afaik, 4.3(perhaps stout was 3.8%) and mainstream beer is still 4.3%. He then went on to claim that wine in the 80's was 7 or 8 %!
Completely made up stuff, and completely unchallenged.

I'm tempted to complain to the BAI but I most likely can't be arsed.

That was Dr Chris Luke

elperello

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That was Dr Chris Luke

Just by coincidence I brought some stuff down from the attic that was put in old cardboard boxes and stored in 2009.

Some of the boxes had contained Stella Artois 33cl bottles.

They were 5.2%, the Stella Artois I am drinking now is 4.8%.

ohnonotgmail

elperello wrote: »

Just by coincidence I brought some stuff down from the attic that was put in old cardboard boxes and stored in 2009.

Some of the boxes had contained Stella Artois 33cl bottles.

They were 5.2%, the Stella Artois I am drinking now is 4.8%.

the reduced the ABV for the UK market (that we are included in) in 2008. the rest of the world still gets the proper 5.2% stuff.

Capt'n Midnight

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-price-food-decision-alcohol-uk.html

They found a 1% increase in alcohol retail price meant a reduction of 0.25% in alcohol consumption. This was less of an impact than anticipated.

More significantly, they found a 1% increase in the price of food translated into a 1% decrease in alcohol consumption.

My take from this is that MUP would only affect people who don't have enough money for decent food. So there may be health consequences either way.

It can't be stressed often enough this won't affect anyone who buys premium brands and not one extra cent will go to health. All it will do is take money from the poor and give it to the supermarkets and wholesalers/distributors.

brightspark

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-price-food-decision-alcohol-uk.html
My take from this is that MUP would only affect people who don't have enough money for decent food. So there may be health consequences either way.

It can't be stressed often enough this won't affect anyone who buys premium brands and not one extra cent will go to health. All it will do is take money from the poor and give it to the supermarkets and wholesalers/distributors.

It will increase the premium brand prices, most of the cheaper brands are also made by the big name companies, purely there for a price differential.

Companies tend to sell at three levels, cheap for those who only worry about price, mid-range for those on a budget but want some level of quality, and premium who want something special. (Tesco have been doing this with almost everything for years).

So when the cheap brands go up in price all the others will also to some degree.

But you are correct it all goes to the supply chain. A tax increase would have been better.

Hotblack Desiato

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

and ignore the fact that pubs have remained closed while off licenses have not had a single new restriction placed on them over the period of the pandemic.

Not true.

Masks required, numbers limited, perspex screens at tills, provide hand sanitizer, same as other essential retail outlets.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just someone who finds all this drama with people getting up in arms about the price of off license booze amusing.

You find it amusing that a bunch of shysters and liars have all of our political parties lapping up their BS and the media afraid to say boo to them?

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Edit : Here is the post actually
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104552791&postcount=902

Germany worse off than Ireland for liver cirrhosis and cancer but less so for injury.
Portugal the same for injury but more for cancer and cirrhosis.
Spain less for injury, the same for the other two.
No data for France or Italy.

Actual figures would be useful, a crayoned-in map isn't really.
While Portugal is "one colour worse" than us on two measures, what is the actual difference? It may be substantial, it may be very small. Also different countries record illness in different ways, and some more accurately than others, so data is not always directly comparable.

More importantly, how does their alcohol consumption compare to ours?

France and Italy missing from the data is a massive omission.

Hotblack Desiato

the beer revolu wrote: »

Did anyone hear the Muppet of a doctor on NewsTalk with Mark Cagney on The Hard Shoulder Yesterday?

Completely made up stuff, and completely unchallenged.

I'm tempted to complain to the BAI but I most likely can't be arsed.

PLEASE complain. Lying over the airwaves on a matter of public policy cannot ever be let go unchallenged.

https://www.bai.ie/en/viewers-listeners/complaints/

SleetAndSnow

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1386065290576924673?s=19

Minimum Alcohol Pricing really is nigh now

kenmc

So when mup has no tangible affect, what will they do next? Muppets.

beerguts

The government are just going to give a boost to the black market in illegal distilleries with this minimum pricing.
Imagine the problems we will have when there will be clusters of people getting violently sick/blind or even die due to poorly distilled alcohol. We already have this with intravenous drug users and the unscrupulous people that deliver sub standard products to them.
Also we will see cross border shopping increase with people stocking up in Newry/Enniskillen for there booze. So that will be a loss to the exchequer.
That's my take on it anyways because an alcoholic will still get their drink no matter what and from what I see the under 30s now are very light drinkers and rather use drugs when out enjoying themselves.

Wanderer78

kenmc wrote:

So when mup has no tangible affect, what will they do next? Muppets.

More personal responsibility talk, and the like, I suspect, which will also fail

Pintman Paddy Losty

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

Wanderer78

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

pricing wont prevent or alter complex social issues

listermint

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

Oh the naivety is strong in this one.


If only there wasn't so many varied of examples of how prohibition works so well..

Macy0161

kenmc wrote: »

So when mup has no tangible affect, what will they do next? Muppets.

Say the mup is too low I imagine.

machiavellianme

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

Yeah because charging 7 euro a pint will stop people from doing the same thing :rolleyes:

jester77

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

Hard to tell if you are being sarcastic, but as someone who hasn't lived in Ireland for over 20 years, that sounds very expensive for a locally mass produced beer. Here in Germany I can get locally produced beer at a fraction of that, and people are not out of control :eek:

Wanderer78

jester77 wrote: »

Hard to tell if you are being sarcastic, but as someone who hasn't lived in Ireland for over 20 years, that sounds very expensive for a locally mass produced beer. Here in Germany I can get locally produced beer at a fraction of that, and people are not out of control :eek:

those you see are not, those you dont......

Ohmeha

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1386065290576924673?s=19

Minimum Alcohol Pricing really is nigh now

Now they are peddling out preventing covid as their latest desperate excuse to introduce this just in time for when the pubs re-open to sell pints with the inevitable euro or two price increase for the pleasure

The media are also contributing to this government scam by peddling the 'cheap alcohol' lie on their headlines

maestroamado

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's about time. The fact that people can stock up on crates of cheap beer needs to stop. Supermarkets selling 24 cans of Guinness for less than a euro a can. It's outrageous and no wonder that we had disgraceful scenes of crowds of young people in states of extreme drunkenness this weekend.

For me our drink culture is because we have absolutely nothing for our young folk to do after dark when people want to be out.
We need to create a different social model if we want to get away for the drink culture.
I have this conversation all the time and people say people say they will not go to these places.
My reply is they are not there to go to, i am talking about recreational indoor sports, games etc, it would have to be Government led, we also would have an insurance issue as soon as a place would open.
There is alot more to this than the price of drink.

Fr Tod Umptious

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

........

Actual figures would be useful, a crayoned-in map isn't really.
While Portugal is "one colour worse" than us on two measures, what is the actual difference? It may be substantial, it may be very small. Also different countries record illness in different ways, and some more accurately than others, so data is not always directly comparable.

More importantly, how does their alcohol consumption compare to ours?

France and Italy missing from the data is a massive omission.

The whole report is in my linked post.
You'll get more detail in that than just the maps.

KrustyUCC

Brilliant plan from the government

Introduce MUP when the North is practically fully open

That's bound to make trips over the border even more of a draw

KrustyUCC

Love how they're now trying to bring this in by linking 'cheap alcohol' to the spread of Covid

Shameless

Fr Tod Umptious

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Brilliant plan from the government

Introduce MUP when the North is practically fully open

That's bound to make trips over the border even more of a draw

Just as a curiosity what locations in the republic are the tipping points for when going over the border for cheap booze is no longer economical.

People often throw out the idea that people will just head north after MUP, but for how many people is that really an option ?

I live so far south that it will never be economical, but I'm just wondering what locations would be where the cost of fuel and the time required no longer make any sense to travel north.

Economics101

As I understand it MUP will be specified as so much € per gram of pure alcohol. Pubs almost certainly charge more than this anyhow, so won't be affected. This will mean that the competition (off-licences) will lose out to pubs.

No wonder the licenced vintners' lobby favours MUP, continuing a good old tradition of the political power of the publican in Irish politics.

KrustyUCC

Economics101 wrote: »

As I understand it MUP will be specified as so much € per gram of pure alcohol. Pubs almost certainly charge more than this anyhow, so won't be affected. This will mean that the competition (off-licences) will lose out to pubs.

No wonder the licenced vintners' lobby favours MUP, continuing a good old tradition of the political power of the publican in Irish politics.

Yup this measure is all about the pubs

Always has been since its been in the 2011 FG manifesto

I don't think this will have as big an effect for the pubs as its made out to be

Pubs will still be dearer than off licences

Just mean average person who already pays amongst the dearest for alcohol in Europe will need to be ripped off even more

Ger Roe

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yup this measure is all about the pubs

Always has been since its been in the 2011 FG manifesto

I don't think this will have as big an effect for the pubs as its made out to be

Pubs will still be dearer than off licences

Just mean average person who already pays amongst the dearest for alcohol in Europe will need to be ripped off even more

.... with the Government now gifting the imposed additional rip off margin to the retailer. Imaging any other commercial sector being ordered to increase their prices and make more of a profit.

KrustyUCC

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just as a curiosity what locations in the republic are the tipping points for when going over the border for cheap booze is no longer economical.

People often throw out the idea that people will just head north after MUP, but for how many people is that really an option ?

I live so far south that it will never be economical, but I'm just wondering what locations would be where the cost of fuel and the time required no longer make any sense to travel north.

Cork to Belfast is €70 fuel return

The same bottle of whiskey that's €12 .37 in the North will be €22.09 here after MUP

You can get a case of the same whisky for €74 which would be €132.54 here

There little less €50 in savings straight away on the exact same product

People won't believe how much MUP is going to gouge the Irish consumer

KrustyUCC

I wouldn't make a trip just for alcohol BTW

But if if I was taking a holiday up North and I'm seriously looking into that anyway it would make sense to do some shopping on the way home

Lot more economical from Dublin, border counties, midlands

Tiger Roll

Not related to MUP as such but Tesco are starting a clubcard rewards thing next weekend where you get an item at a certain price if you use a clubcard . Bottle of Bailey's 21euro ,with clubcard it's 9 euro. Carlsberg 12 pack cans 17 euro,with clubcard it's 12 euro . I thought loyalty cards can't be used as a promotion under new legislation. Be interesting to see how it pans out