Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391302#Comment_118391302

Maybe it's because the price of the cheapest off license booze is not that big a deal for the general public.

Plenty of people where whopping and hollering on this thread over the years saying how this would mean this that and the other for the government and how they would do this that and the other to protest etc, yet it's coming in with a whimper.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391331#Comment_118391331

Some think it will only affect alcoholics, more think it's a tax.

The fact that this will cost even modest drinkers a few hundred euro a year extra has been overlooked.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391363#Comment_118391363

When they go to buy a case of beer it will be a big deal.

Well we did a lot of complaining on here but no organised opposition ever evolved from it.

Too be fair who was going to walk down their main street with a placard saying "We Want Cheap Beer" ? 🙂

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118389118#Comment_118389118

Where would the extra €6 come from ? Unless there's an increase in income it's going to be reduced spend elsewhere or out of savings. Most things have VAT so reduced spending will likely the Revenue won't see any extra monies. But your pocket will be emptier.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388896#Comment_118388896

MUP won't affect full retail price of branded beverages but will double the cheapest own brands. It'll take a long time for inflation to catch up. A basket of goods and services that cost €100 in Apr 1987 would have cost €200.31 in Nov 2021

macraignil

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391428#Comment_118391428

I would be one to walk down a main street with a placard saying " We want Cheap Beer" but I live a long way from a main street. Going to the pub would cost me a lot in taxi fare or a dangerous walk along fast roads without any footpaths as I live in a rural area where the nearest pub is around 5kilometers away. I like a number of the cheaper brands of beer more than the more expensive more advertised brands but now will simply have less money in my pocket because of MUP. The issue for politicians is they all think they can spin the MUP to sound like they care when all it is going to do is make life more expensive for some and particularly more difficult for people who are more dependent on alcohol. It does not matter to them that MUP in Scotland has contributed to a continued increase in deaths from drug use as the equivalent group of people in Ireland would be fairly unlikely to vote for them anyway.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391581#Comment_118391581

So you do the sensible thing and buy the drink you like and consume it at your own pace safe at home.

What thanks do you get? Just your pocket raided and most of the money going to the drinks trade.

The likes of you and me are just collateral damage expected by the politicians to pay up and shut up.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391581#Comment_118391581

It does not matter to them that MUP in Scotland has contributed to a continued increase in deaths from drug use

Can a day not go by without this totally incorrect and misleading statement being made ?

Drug deaths have been on the rise in Scotland and the north of England since 2013, five years before MUP happened.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118390424#Comment_118390424

How much do you think an extra 30c per litre adds to a spin to Newry? A spin like that even a shitbox will get 7L/100km so maybe an extra €4? Buy an extra 6 pack and you've saved it.

People who don't live near the border really don't have a clue. 10 and more years ago when the price difference was bigger than it is now (but a lot smaller than it will be) the sales over the border were massive. The queues down the hill to Newry weren't people from the border area, believe me. We just pop to Jonesboro or Culloville. Bit further over they go to Enniskillen.

When prices had almost equalised it took another 2-3 years for the traffic to completely drop away because the prices of other things still made the trip worthwhile. It was pretty easy to save 20-30% on groceries compared to Dundalk, let alone Dublin.

Once people start crossing the border they won't stop straight away because there's a lot of options to save money up there. I don't go as much as I used to (since I don't drink and all) but a spin every couple of months for toiletries and generic OTC drugs more than saves me my fuel money. Plus just the general selection.

It took a 20-30% price difference for alcohol to get people over the border in numbers last time. By next Christmas we could be looking at a 100% difference, even if North of the border they gouge a bit it'll still likely be a good 50%. If a 2 hour spin to save hundreds of Euro doesn't interest you then fair enough.

A little thing that might be instructional to people is a kind of lack of development of "nice" off-licences around the border. There are plenty of one-offs which are decent at what they do but there's not much specialisation. It's not just down to duty but distributors as well, what with the UK market being far bigger and more developed.

Shout out to Wine Flair in Newry. Feels like you're in an episode of Shameless to get in but they have a great selection and they'll order stuff in with a phone call and all. Though overall I find retail experiences far better up there.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391954#Comment_118391954

And alcohol consumption has been going down year on year for over a decade here.

There is no need for this to be introduced. It is prohibition its not hyperbole. Its a war on the average person again frankly.

Only zealots are for it. And you are fully aware there has been next to zero information brought up about this in the media. Outside this thread it's zero. The amount of people I told that the price of their slab of guinness will be next year and looked at me with astonishment that they never heard anything about it would be around 90 percent.

If this was in anyway truthful it wouldn't have gotten through. It was shaped in a nonsense health way and some side order of stopping the youth drinking. When we know the statistics back up neither claim.

So once again I ask you is consumption rising has it been rising had it been rising in under 18s.

Il smirk because I know and you know the answers. Religious zealots on the path again like the looper independents few weeks with head case toibin. They are a handy bunch for FG to slip through stuff for their vintners friends. It's all so predictably planned for their Donors.

Rather than send people off looking for old threads etc. I'll give some helpful info here for people thinking of crossing the border.

If you're travelling from Dublin there's not much point not going the extra 5 minutes to Newry. There are a few places in Culloville (turn off M1 for Castleblayney) and there's also Jonesboro (turn off M1 last exit before the border). In Jonesboro they can be hit and miss but they do often have a decent selection of offers. Probably no harm in the 5 minutes to have a quick look before Newry.

In Newry you have a decent selection. Turn off the A1 at Cloughue and once you've started on the downhill you'll have the Drink Link on your left. It's a bit small but excellent selection. I'd recommend the chippy next to it on the way home, still tastes like a chipper from 20 years ago. :P Though if you're going to get food Ned Kelly's would be my chipper recommendation.

Go on down the hill and eventually the Quays (Sainsburys, Semi-Chem) will be on your right and Buttercrane (Dunnes and Semi-Chem) on the left. Both are decent.

If you go to round to Wine Flair there are a bunch of Bargain stores within sight, B&M, Poundstretcher and Deals. And TK Maxx. :P

I keep mentioning the drugs stores because there are serious savings to be made there. 1 a day allergy tablets are 49p for 4. 12 paracetamol/ibuprofen are 29p in some stores. Toothpaste, mouthwashes etc. are 20-40% cheaper and, just as importantly, they have generics so for example a Corsodyl equivalent was £2 a bottle last I got it. Any of my friends who I brought to Dealz were mad to get back. The bargain stores also sell OTC medication so between 3 of them you can stock up on day-to-day medication for a year for well under €20. If you're a man and you go into Dealz with a woman try and let her get ahead of you a bit because seriously, they will be stopping for a while near the end in the make-up area. And if you think that's a sexist comment, so would I have til it happened with every girl I've been with there. :P

Or of course just head for Tesco and get £2.99 bottles of wine.

Oh and a headsup, the gap isn't as big as it used to be but KFC is a lot nicer (and a lot cheaper) up North. :P

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392016#Comment_118392016

I'd say you'll look back on this thread in years to come and wonder why you got so worked up about the price of cheap off license booze.

How did FG manage to get such cross party support for this in the Dail ?

Is every politician in the land that guilible that they fell for what FG were feeding them ?

That's some going by FG you have to admit.

And so what if consumption is dropping, what harm if it drops even further with more initiatives.

Should we have stopped the anti-smoking campaigns 20 years ago because smoking numbers were dropping ?

There is a serious lack of critical thinking from people here when it comes to analysing MUP.

It's the same old tired tropes on every page.

- No health benefits.

- FG manifesto.

- Increased drug deaths in Scotland.

- Consumption going down anyway.

- The government will pay for this, just you wait and see.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392086#Comment_118392086

Critical thinking. The only term used by those who think they know it all.

Zealots. Controllers. They didn't get their way on abortion but we need to maintain input into other aspects of peoples lives.

FG only ever had the Donors in mind. They've used the useful idiots in AAI and some health service folks to dupe the rest of the parties. No ones going to critique this when they've been given false data. Believe me I spoke to various TDs their responses were what one would call carbon copy bollixology

listermint

Yous aren't a T totaler by any chance.?

Asus X540L

Dutch Gold not going down without a fight: 6 for a tenner.

Can't see them lasting long cause people will be able to buy 6 of something decent for a tenner instead.

[img]https://i.ibb.co/XJjyYKg/3f102161-52a9-4856-b69b-0903f3a6b889.jpg[/img]

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392136#Comment_118392136

No

I'm a slab at Christmas and maybe a bottle or two of wine as well person, and then a litre bottle of Bulmers or beer every few weeks or so during the year.

I've been to the pub twice in 2 years even though there is one 10mins walk away.

The amount this household spends on booze is minimal and it will stay that way.

Next Christmas that slab might only be half a slab because of MUP, and the bottle of cider might be once a month rather than every few weeks.

However if it were 25 years ago and I was half my age, I'd be up in arms about all this.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392128#Comment_118392128

I was emailing a FG TD last year for various reasons, one of which was cannabis legalisation, they claimed there was no demand for it on the doorstops so it wasnt a priority, in response i asked what demand on the doorsteps was there for MUP and they expectedly ignored the question.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391954#Comment_118391954

And still rising after the introduction of MUP. So do you think that had no effect on it? It is also worth pointing out that alcohol consumption was decreasing since 2009 and halted in 2020, two years after the introduction.

It is now decreasing again, but I don't believe that is as a result of MUP.

Scotlands introduction of MUP was also deemed illegal in the EU, and while they were fighting it in the EU court, Brexit was happening which made any ruling there moot.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392275#Comment_118392275

If Brexit saved Scotland from the EU making MUP illegal how come Ireland are able to introduce it ?

If drug deaths started rising only in Scotland after the introduction of MUP then that's one thing, but they were rising for five years prior to the introduction of MUP.

Drug deaths have also been rising in the north of England, which does not have MUP but borders Scotland.

So an increase in drug deaths cannot be solely attributed to MUP as many here wish to do.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392211#Comment_118392211

Crazy to think that you could limit yourself like that and be that controlled living so close to alcohol, without the introduction of MUP.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392310#Comment_118392310

I wasn't blaming MUP solely on it, but the facts are there. The same facts that will no doubt be pointed to when alcohol consumption figures go down, despite having been going down for years before.

If Brexit saved Scotland from the EU making MUP illegal how come Ireland are able to introduce it ?

The EU wasn't going to make it illegal via Scotland's case. It is already illegal.

Scotland were still going to court. I have no idea how Ireland were able to introduce it, and I have no idea if somebody will contest it in Ireland, but IIRC the EU court had acknowledged the introduction of MUP was illegal, as it had something to do with breaking trade laws. It has appeared in EU courts a few times since the 70's and every time it has been confirmed it is illegal.

L1011

We had, and had to stop, the equivalent for cigarettes due to being anticompetitive

ArmaniJeanss

I think the 'only people in border areas could profit by travelling North' idea is pretty flawed, when such a huge percentage of the country (specifically Dublin) isn't really that far from the border.

I'd like to see the potential savings compared to the traditional pre-Brexit England -> France day-trip which seemed to be a valid option for anyone within 50/100Km of the channel ports, despite needing a ferry there and back as well the driving. As I understand it was a saving of around 50%, which appears to be similar to the potential saving for us in the North next year.

What happened was people became quite professional about it. it went way beyond a husband and wife taking their little car across on a day-trip to pick up 2 slabs of beer, a bottle of whiskey and four bottles of wine. It became 4 people in a large car or van, often with a trailer, splitting the journey costs and purchasing serious amounts of alcohol, 4 figure amounts. (Also to be fair, cheaper cigarettes were a part of it, which is something we won't save on).

On the French side the operation was quite professional as well, with warehouse-sized outlets built as close to the port/border as possible, selling product ranges specifically tailored to what the day-trippers wanted.

I could see it potentially developing along similar lines.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392329#Comment_118392329

I wasn't blaming MUP solely on it, but the facts are there

But the facts are not there. Because durg deaths are increased before MUP was introduced and they are increasing in a place that MUP does not exist.

You are making no sense on the EU legality stuff.

Why don't all the people here very angry about MUP organize themselves and bring a case to Europe against MUP.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392391#Comment_118392391

MUP is not going to come in in the north until after the May elections there, but conceivably it could come in in 2022, and it will have multi party support as it had here.

So anyone planning on setting up a professional operation will have to move fast and make use of it because it may not be around for long.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392418#Comment_118392418

The facts that drug deaths are increasing... Are there. Before or since MUP. They are increasing. I am not saying it is linked. Just pointing out that it could equally be cited as a reason the way the alcohol consumption decreasing will be pointed out citing MUP as the reason despite it decreasing beforehand.

I am making sense, it was deemed illegal in the EU courts. I can't remember the amount of times or the dates, but it has also been mentioned on this thread a few times.

A quick search..

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2015/12/european-court-confirms-illegality-of-mup/

https://www.ceev.eu/newsletter/the-eu-wine-sector-welcomes-the-referral-of-minimum-unit-pricing-in-scotland-to-the-eu-court-of-justice/

You can look it up yourself

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Minimum+pricing+was+first+ruled+illegal+CJEU&ia=web

EDIT - It is worth pointing out the last line of the 2nd linked article

The CJEU has ruled minimum pricing as an illegal restraint on trade in every case since the first one was heard in 1978.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392434#Comment_118392434

I'm looking for 2022 quotes. I see one from Robin Swann (Health Minister) where he said 'at least 18 months' in March of this year which could squeeze into 2022. But more recently he said '2023 at the earliest' which is politician code for 'not 2023'.

The Northern Executive is famously slow-moving and has previously closed down completely for spurious reasons (flags or languages).

If someone did a cheap conversion of a barn into a functioning warehouse 50 metres over the border, I'd be surprised if they didn't get 4 full years out of it.

But even if it's just Newry and the existing established outlets, then the professional day-tripper option I outlined is still valid imo. If London to Dover (100Km) and then a ferry each way was a profitable option then Dublin to Newry is a breeze. But clearly you would have to be buying a serious amount.

macraignil

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118391954#Comment_118391954

How can you say what I said is totally incorrect? I said the increase in drug related deaths had continued to increase so your point that the increase had started before the introduction of MUP was already acknowledged in what I said.

Here is a link to an official document on the figures and they include a graph that shows an increase in this type of death from before 2013 as well with the rate of increase showing an increase after that date. The steepest increase pattern on the graph includes years where MUP has been in force there.

No one can say why anybody who died from drug related causes in that time decided to choose drugs over some other substance but making the cheapest alcohol more expensive must have made their decision to consume some substance less likely to include consideration of simply consuming some cheap alcohol.

It’s true that the alcoholics will be ever more in debt, but if it puts the pause button on some becoming alcoholics, it might serve some purpose. Whether it does or not is another thing.

Suckit

.