Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

goose2005

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't believe the conspiracy theory that minimum pricing is an effort to encourage pub use. I think it's a simple fact that under pricing of alcohol is contributing to alcohol abuse and it's mute widespread than people care to admit.

what under-pricing? Irish alcohol is among the most expensive in the world. How do you determine that it's somehow "under-priced"? It costs about 15 cents to brew a pint.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't believe the conspiracy theory that minimum pricing is an effort to encourage pub use. I think it's a simple fact that under pricing of alcohol is contributing to alcohol abuse and it's mute widespread than people care to admit.

My local Centra stopped closing later than 10 because, as the manager said to me, it's the off sales that is bringing people in.

Perhaps people being critical of price changes should suggest better alternatives to tackling alcohol abuse, because it sure will have some effect.

Then how do you explain the fact that cheaper alcohol is available in other countries, but they don't have seem to have any higher levels of alcohol abuse?

If you really think that minimum pricigin is nothign to do with pb use, then you must be part of the Vintners association (and even then, you probbaly don't believe it...)

As to how to tacckle alcohol abuse? Try creating alternative social entertainments to drinking.

elperello

Simon is back from the holidays and getting ready to spoil your Christmas!

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0828/900598-alcohol-bill/

Ubbquittious

Dont worry I'm going on a booze cruise and Ill have a massive hoolie when I get back. Naturally enough Ill have a qualified bartender with a lab coat and a breathyliser doing the rounds checking peoples' pulse to make sure they're not getting too intoxicated

elperello

elperello wrote: »

Simon is back from the holidays and getting ready to spoil your Christmas!

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0828/900598-alcohol-bill/

So instead of tackling the many problems in the health service, lets bring in this untested, potentially dangerous bill. Make you feel proud doesn't it?

Nabber

"Fight terror with tolerance and education, don't offend the many because of a few"

"Fight alcohol with higher prices and minimum prices, better to offend the many because of a few"

Remove all taxation on alcohol and leave it with just VAT.
Otherwise prepare for another wave of home brew

redarmyblues

You can buy a home distilling kit about the size of a deep fat fryer for under a €100 on Amazon and knock up a litre of vodka for about €1.50, all in one brewing systems are down from €1500 to €400 and you can brew your own for between 20-50c per pint. Home brewing and distilling are very popular in countries where alcohol is expensive and/or supply is controlled by the state.

Its a win win for the drinker and the nanny state, since drinking becomes cheaper for those who chose to produce their own and nanny can point to lower alcohol sales.

Are Am Eye

I will drink more. Much more.
Just to spite them.

Nabber

Nabber wrote: »

"Fight terror with tolerance and education, don't offend the many because of a few"

"Fight alcohol with higher prices and minimum prices, better to offend the many because of a few"

Remove all taxation on alcohol and leave it with just VAT.
Otherwise prepare for another wave of home brew

If they make alcohol prohibitively expensive, its creating a virtual prohibition. Did you ever wonder why so many blues players had blind in their name?

Blind Joe Reynolds
Blind Teddy Darby
Blind Boy Fuller
Blind Willie Johnson

They were blinded from drinking illegal hooch during prohibition in the US. Its a genuinely scary prospect that that could happen here. Home Brew isn't the problem. Make a bad batch of home brew beer and the worst that happens is you have a carbuoy of undrinkable beer, but artifcially inflate the price of a legal bottle of vodka to 50 euro and the black market of cheap home made alcohol will explode, and as with any black market there will be lots of counterfeit. People will be sold anti-freeze and either go blind or die from consuming it.

This is a very bad idea.

NikoTopps

Alcohol in Éire is already extremely expensive.For example there is a Lidl own brand vodca, a red label.Here it cost 12€ish for 0,7L.in Spain same exact brand is 4,29€,and in Germany 4,99€. It's ridiculous here

BillyBobBS

Alcohol is incredibly expensive in Ireland. I do a run to France in the car twice a year for wine for myself, family, and friends. It works out at about one third to one quarter of the price of buying it here. Even after the ferry tickets cost it's a huge saving. We are rapidly heading into massive nanny state control of everything we do and that worries me more than anything.

prinzeugen

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Alcohol is incredibly expensive in Ireland. I do a run to France in the car twice a year for wine for myself, family, and friends. It works out at about one third to one quarter of the price of buying it here. Even after the ferry tickets cost it's a huge saving. We are rapidly heading into massive nanny state control of everything we do and that worries me more than anything.

Think you have been watching to many reruns of that "Only Fools And Horses" episode on Gold (on today).

The booze cruise died out in the 90's.

Would not get it past customs now.

prinzeugen

NikoTopps wrote: »

Alcohol in Éire is already extremely expensive.For example there is a Lidl own brand vodca, a red label.Here it cost 12€ish for 0,7L.in Spain same exact brand is 4,29€,and in Germany 4,99€. It's ridiculous here

You can get paint stripper cheaper. Would be nicer than the stale aviation fuel they call vodka in Lidl/Aldi.

Cookie_Monster

prinzeugen wrote: »

Would not get it past customs now.

of course you will. My father in law still ships a pallet of wine home from Italy every summer, never had any issues. They (customs) need to prove it's not personal use.

90l of wine is 120 bottles straight allowance and then they may make you demonstrate it's for personal use. I'm not sure what that entails exactly but 2 bottles a day with dinner for a family say is over 700 bottles for the year which is easily justifiable.
A booze cruise with 4 people gives you a minimum limit of 480 bottles of wine, 36 slabs of beer and 40 litres of spirits before you even reach the limits...

dr.fuzzenstein

prinzeugen wrote: »

Think you have been watching to many reruns of that "Only Fools And Horses" episode on Gold (on today).

The booze cruise died out in the 90's.

Would not get it past customs now.

Utter nonsense. You can bring 800 fags, 10 liters of schnaps, 110 liters of beer and 90 liters of wine.
With very cheap ferry prices off season (60 to 90 quid one way) it will become a great way to buy the year's supply of booze and fags as well as a holiday.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/travelling/within-eu_en

Now is the time to buy a bus and start booze cruises commercially.

elperello

While booze cruises and home brewing are strategies to avoid the effects of MUP they don't address the fact that it is bad legislation which will discriminate against someone who enjoys a few drinks in their own home.

redarmyblues

prinzeugen wrote: »

You can get paint stripper cheaper. Would be nicer than the stale aviation fuel they call vodka in Lidl/Aldi.

One of the own brand vodkas is indistinguishable from Smirnoff, guess why. The rest are fine to drink, vodka is vodka, everything else is a marketing scam.

Zubeneschamali

elperello wrote: »

it is bad legislation which will discriminate against someone who enjoys a few drinks in their own home.

I would say it is well designed legislation: the whole point is to discriminate against someone who drinks at home so as to encourage them to drink at a licensed VFI establishment instead.

However, I am not sure why the Minister for Health is talking about it instead of the Minister for Taking Bungs from Established Interests.

Shelflife

I've done a bit of travelling over the years and observed the various practices on the continent. As a off license owner myself it interests me.

In most of the countries I visited , Alcohol was widely available and usually much much cheaper. You had the occasional drunk around the place but by and large people respected what they drank and were careful as to how they drank it.

We have a problem in Ireland, the round system and the way we drink as if it's our last one ever needs to be changed.

By putting booze curtains around the off licence section in a shop and upping the price will make absolutely no difference to the problem drinkers in the country.

It will make it more expensive for your average Joe to get his 6 pack or bottle of wine and incur an extra expense on your local shop to sell their products.

Makes no sense whatsoever!

redarmyblues

redarmyblues wrote: »

One of the own brand vodkas is indistinguishable from Smirnoff, guess why. The rest are fine to drink, vodka is vodka, everything else is a marketing scam.

It's certainly not, own brand vodka is horrific. Even Smirnoff is nothing special but there is a massive difference between vodkas.

Drink some Smirnoff and then try Finlandia, there is no comparison.

weldoninhio

Philip Clean Ruler wrote: »

It's certainly now, own brand vodka is horrific. Even Smirnoff is nothing special but there is a massive difference between vodkas.

Drink some Smirnoff and then try Finlandia, there is no comparison.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lidl-own-brand-vodka-beats-market-leaders-141897.html

redarmyblues

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I would say it is well designed legislation: the whole point is to discriminate against someone who drinks at home so as to encourage them to drink at a licensed VFI establishment instead.

However, I am not sure why the Minister for Health is talking about it instead of the Minister for Taking Bungs from Established Interests.

This may back fire on the Vinters, as Tim Martin of Wetherspoons pointed out, many people only have a certain amount of money to spend on alcohol, if the price of what they consume at home increases, it reduces the discretionary spend in the pub.

Jurgen Klopp

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I would say it is well designed legislation: the whole point is to discriminate against someone who drinks at home so as to encourage them to drink at a licensed VFI establishment instead.

However, I am not sure why the Minister for Health is talking about it instead of the Minister for Taking Bungs from Established Interests.

If a can of Heineken is made €2 what's it in the pub now does anyone know?

jimgoose

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

If a can of Heineken is made €2 what's it in the pub now does anyone know?

Pint of decent lager - Carlsberg, et al - is around €4.85 anyway, in my local in the Southside of Cork.

Jurgen Klopp

redarmyblues wrote: »

This may back fire on the Vinters, as Tim Martin of Wetherspoons pointed out, many people only have a certain amount of money to spend on alcohol, if the price of what they consume at home increases, it reduces the discretionary spend in the pub.

It's another deluded attempt to line publicans pockets. Thinking people will hit the pubs now cause a minimum price will be introduced

1. Despite teh Governments ****e hawking the majority of people in this country are still financially squeezed so they are still not gonna go into teh pub and pay your outrageous prices, they'll buy less from the shop and even then it will probably still be a €1 cheaper than the same can in a pub

2. Drink driving laws and limits also affect it for teh simply reason you can be done the following morning for being over the limit and most people aren't paying taxis to go into town for one or two pints. It's usually for a proper night out where you're home late and again falls into point 1, big nights out have to be financially accounted for

3. It's actually nigh on impossible to go to a pub if it's not in a city or large town due to transport as it can be a pain in teh hole getting a taxi

It's as bad as current attempts to keep landlord politicians in high rents by dodging building social housing as it would drop rents to affordable realistic levels. But that would mean the pigs would have the trough taken away

hatrickpatrick

We have to wait for a ruling from the UK supreme court in a few weeks as to their view of whether this contravenes EU law. The European Court of Justice issued a fairly strange ruling on the case in which they stated that in their view it could breach the law, but it was up to national courts to make the final decision. They also said that it would only breach the law if it couldn't be demonstrated that other measures could have the desired effect without distorting the free market.

What I'm wondering is, firstly, if the UK court rules in favour of the legislation, does that make it a near certainty that our own will as well? Do we have a sufficiently different legal regime particularly around EU law and competition to make it still worth pursuing this in the Irish courts, even if it gets the go-ahead in the UK?

And secondly, will anyone take a case in Ireland? I believe the ABFI, while opposing the legislation, have said they won't. And I presume it would be prohibitively expensive for a random punter to take a case, unless we organised some sort of crowd funding for it.

Jurgen Klopp

jimgoose wrote: »

Pint of decent lager - Carlsberg, et al - is around €4.85 anyway, in my local in the Southside of Cork.

Right so nearly €5 for 568mls or a 500ml can for say €2. Then your looking at €10 anyway for a taxi per head of there's a few together

Even at €3 a can I'd still rather buy 4-5 cans in the shop or off licence and let the pubs get to fcuk

BillyBobBS

prinzeugen wrote: »

Think you have been watching to many reruns of that "Only Fools And Horses" episode on Gold (on today).

The booze cruise died out in the 90's.

Would not get it past customs now.

Like i stated in my post i go twice a year and bring back around 100 cases/600 bottles each time. Tell customs the two times i was pulled in over the last 5 years it's for my wedding and they are happy with that. They are only interested in lads in white vans bringing back pallets of it. Customs have too much on their hands with drugs, cigs and refugees to be worried about a lad with some wine in his Hyundai.

OldNotWIse

Will be on the ferry to France. Even just breaking even would make it worthwhile. I wouldn't mind if it was an ACTUAL health initiative, but we all know it's just a way to bring in more money to p*ss away.

jimgoose

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Right so nearly €5 for 568mls or a 500ml can for say €2. Then your looking at €10 anyway for a taxi per head of there's a few together

Even at €3 a can I'd still rather buy 4-5 cans in the shop or off licence and let the pubs get to fcuk

T'Woolpack is ten minutes walk from my place through the leafy 'Burbs, and when I want lager I drink a couple of ice-cold Tuborg at €4 each, while holding up the counter with my arsehole middle-aged ten-year-old mates. I'll stick with that!