Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118702272#Comment_118702272

But you do realise that someone who drinks only 1 can a night is now paying out €255 a year extra which is why they are not exactly cheering on MUP.

If they are a living on a state pension that wipes out a weeks income.

Nigzcurran

Ah give over with that nonsense please! Beer is a luxury, if you can’t afford it then give it up, it’s not central heating or food, it’s beer and like cigarettes it should only be bought if you can afford them. People are being overly dramatic on this thread constantly “worried” about the low earners or pensioners who’ll have to start paying €2 a can. It’ll all be forgotten about in a few months

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118702407#Comment_118702407

luxury or not isn't really relevant to the facts of MUP and why it was introduced, which was not about health but about trying to stifle competition and force people back into the pubs by slowly and surely rising the prices of drink in the supermarkets to that of the pub, which will happen over time.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118702407#Comment_118702407

No nonsense in my post.

Can of 4.3 beer could be bought readily for €1 before MUP now costs €1.70.

365 x .70 = €255.50

Forgotten maybe by you in a few months but someone who is short a weeks "wages" for enjoying a simple pleasure in their own house might not be so willing to forget.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118702407#Comment_118702407

The trouble is to many alcohol taken in moderation is not a luxury, its a necessary temporary escape from the lightness of being, enjoyed by millions around the world, its no great mystery to me that we find solace and enjoyment in it, at the end of the day no matter how often we visit the gym or eat our greens its the same way we are all heading, prince or pauper its all the same, humans have sought escape however temporary in alcohol and other substances since time immemorial and this escape is healthy and for many a need not a luxury... How many have been saved from the rope or the river by a few kind words shared by a mate that could only have come about after the toungue and minds were loosened a bit with the pleasures of a few drinks in pleasant company?

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118700820#Comment_118700820

I think you've summed it up really. Many don't care as it doesn't affect them. However, many do as it basically means a extra tax on their income. Even if you can afford it easily, it still grates given the flimsy justification behind it.

-=al=-

It’s not about the price. It’s about folks been told that something is more expensive because they said so. The health issue is clearly nonsense as it does not affect pubs and the profits are pocketed by the retailers.

The tax payer is paying for this decision that they did not ask for.

Everyone who consumes alcohol in any quantity is being tarred under the same brush and been told that someone else knows what’s best for you. That’s the problem. The price of alcohol for alcoholics - who this is aimed at, the price is irrelevant.

If they actually cared it would also affect pubs and the the extra money spent on health services. No problem with that.

They cherry picked stats and used uncommon measurements to push through their agenda through. Sneaky nonsense.

Alcohol in Ireland is not cheap. The main point is flawed.

Even comparing MUP to Scotland is nonsense as it’s far cheaper for alcohol in Scotland with MUP than Ireland was without MUP.

Personally, the price of a alcohol has barely affected me. All my friends and family drink less, as do I. I want to have the choice to do something without someone wagging their finger at me and gouging my wallet. It’s not fair for the average Joe.

Everything is getting more expensive and there was no need for this. Invest in mental health and real alcohol related solutions that take work to work. I guarantee no one would have an issue paying for that

If you want to enjoy a drink at home at the end of a hard day it shouldn’t cost you more because someone said so. Nonsense.

Potential-Monke

Said I'd post on this because the brother brought it up the other night. He had a couple of cans a few nights a week, and a break out sesh every few months. He's 48. Works hard, yadda, yadda, typical story. The price increase has made him make the on-the-fence decision of giving up a go. Fair play to him. I think he will too. So, from a health point of view, it's working for my brother...

Anyway, I agree with all the arguments against it since I last posted. But replace alcohol for cannabis. Basically the same. MUP doesn't affect me because I gave up drink years ago (I can say that now!) for possibly the best health benefit to my body I've ever done, but that's me. I just like now that the alcohol consumers are using the same basic arguments we've been using for cannabis legalisation, more or less. We should join up, alcohol support the legalisation of cannabis, cannabis supports the price reduction for alcohol, no doubt the hefty taxes for both will keep the gubbermint happy. Win-win-win!

AndrewJRenko

I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118706162#Comment_118706162

Everyone isn't tarred with the same brush though. The evidence is very clearly related to the amount drank.

Is there a vague possibility that the experts actually do know better than you?

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118706162#Comment_118706162

Everything is getting more expensive as you say. But this legislation setting the MUP at €1 was enacted in 2018. Either it's not about the price or it is about the price, which is it? If it's not about the price, what has the price in Scotland to do with anything?

How can you guarantee that nobody would object to higher taxes for mental health services and alcohol addiction services?

There are other regulations in the legislation apart from MUP. Which do address some of the concerns you have.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118706412#Comment_118706412

I cannot make head nor tail of what you are trying to say in that post. But one question stood out:

"Either it's not about the price or it is about the price, which is it?"

That could be applied to the actual law. Does alcohol only affect those on lower income? If it's about our health why even consider opening the bars later, and why not just add €5 to spirits across the board? or €1 for every 100ml for example.

And just to ask. - What is your point here?:

"How can you guarantee that nobody would object to higher taxes for mental health services and alcohol addiction services?"

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118699823#Comment_118699823

That was completely different. There is already provision in our taxes to pay for water, namely general taxation and motor tax. The purposeful mismanagement of this had nothing to do with the Irish people.

La Madame

Can anybody enlighten me. Why can I bring in 110L Beer and 90 l of wine via Ferry to Ireland, but if I order beer online from another EU country I have to pay duty??

Where exactly is this written in Irish Law? Any suggestions?

Suckit

It could be in this, but wine has always had less tax than other alcoholic drinks. Wine excise in Ireland is the highest in the EU. This was written in 2017, so Ireland have jumped up a place in a few of those as UK is no longer in UK.

http://supportyourlocal.ie/wp-content/uploads/Tax-Report.pdf

La Madame

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775456#Comment_118775456

Thank you . I had a quick look through it. It is very interesting. But it does not explain why you can bring alcohol into ROI from EU country by Ferry (e.g. 110l Beer per person) and not by Post (you must pay duty if caught by revenue )

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775739#Comment_118775739

You have to accompany it in person as in imported it yourself. You cannt use a third party. Thems the rules as annoying as they are.

You can bring more than that in by ferey if you can show it will be used for personal consumption eg wedding

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775739#Comment_118775739

Don't try to rationalise it. They make it up when it suits. Sure look at taxes on importing cars. The mind boggles as to how that can't be seen as a barrier to free trade of goods in the EU.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118682194#Comment_118682194

Another indisputable thing is that excise duty hasn't increased and the amount collected will go down.

VAT has gone up but it's on all "luxuries" so unless the poor increase total spending there'll be no extra VAT revenue from there.

The cost of fuel changes the sweet spot of how much alcohol you need to buy to justify a cross border trip which would mean leas excise or VAT collected by the Revenue even if you include the fuel.

Suckit

It's all about our heatlh. From the other day:

https://twitter.com/HMcEntee/status/1501875980536844290/

rightmove

Maybe Helen McEntee should campaign to stop eating taytos as a health benefit or allowing parks to be called after crisp manufacturers!!!

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788595#Comment_118788595

Tayto's sponsorship of the naming rights to that business recently expired.

They are looking for, or may have found and will soon announce, a new title sponsor.

Potential-Monke

Parks will be called after whoever has the most money.

dybbuk

I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland.

I voted, but I don't like the options provided. One could vote "yes"/"no" for a different reason than the OP provided.

Personally, I am in favor of legalization of all drugs and against commercialization of any, or nearly any. It is the right of any adult of sound mind to produce, procure and consume any substance s/he desires. It is bad for society however if drugs are commercialized: advertised, labeled, deceptively packaged and sold in supermarkets as if they were food at ridiculously low prices.

And that latter applies only to alcohol - one of the most addictive, unhealthy and otherwise dangerous drugs known.

It is absolutely unfair that in ROI one cannot grow, procure or consume Cannabis, not only for recreational purposes but even for serious medical conditions, while alcohol, that is more harmful and has no (or very little) health benefits, is commercialized as if it were food or a nutritional supplement.

To preempt some misguided attacks: I love several kinds of alcoholic beverages. I have my favorite wines, beers, spirits and cocktails. I used to have a wine cellar, a collections of spirits and I know a lot about alcohol and the cultural elements related to it.

Not only am I in favor of a minimum pricing, but more importantly for banning of alcohol from supermarkets. Alcohol (as well as tobacco, coffee and tea) should be sold only in specialized stores that should also have licenses to sell other drugs - mainly of course Cannabis. The same applies to bars.

And nobody under the age of 25 should be allowed to grow, procure or consume any drugs. (This is the age when a human brain completes it's development. Neurologically, humans under the age of 25 are not adults)

La Madame

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813305#Comment_118813305

I wouldn't want to live in the type of society you have in mind! Awful awful ideas where citizens are controlled and regimented by the State. Where would it end? Who make the rules?

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817998#Comment_118817998

I think Russia or North Korea is looking a good place to live by that reasoning.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817998#Comment_118817998

You already live in that world. We have controls over almost everything. Selling times, age limits, quantity limits, speed limits etc etc.

It isn't that citizens need to be controlled, but that society as a whole needs to establish rules in order that everyone gets to enjoy their lives with as little negative impact on others.

Society cannot operate effectively without rules. So the discussion is not about whether rules are required, but what rules and the balance between personal freedom and society needs.

Nobody would argue that alcohol should be available to anyone. Thus the age limit. Is that the citizens being controlled and regimented? Yeah, I guess it is but most people can appreciate the logic in the idea, even if the actual age is open to discussion.

La Madame

In a mature society people have the right to self-determination. There is no society without drugs! People have the right to get intoxicated (without harming others of course! Tell the State to fix the goddamn potholes first ........!!

dybbuk

I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland.

You are very obviously misinterpreting what I wrote. This is counterproductive. Please abstain!

At no point have I contested the rights of individuals to self-determination and that includes "self-intoxication" as you put. It is btw at least a very unfortunate choice of words IMO: Drugs can be used for medication, relaxation, expansion of consciousness etc etc. But of course you are absolutely free to intoxicate - yourself - if you are over 25. I did not pull that number out of my ****. Human brain completes the growth at this age. In fact, if you ever heard of it, the part called "frontal cortex" does. This is the part that makes you an "adult" in the most accepted sense of this word.

I wrote that I would like to see all drugs to be legal, and available. And I believe that the right to self-determination includes suicide.

The only thing that you seem to have taken away from it is that I want to make it more difficult (for you?) to get intoxicated with a particular substance. But I think that I have stated quite clearly that this particular substance happens to be one of the most addictive and deadly. And that is something a lot of people (including in this thread) either do not know or, more often, do not want to know.

Well, the information is available. Alcohol is harmful and addictive in any quantities. It causes all possible damage from long term like cancer to instant like death. Yet, people defend the regular abuse of this deadly stuff and it's empirical commercialization as if it were a vitamin.

I give you an example: The most vilified drug - heroin - does not cause liver damage or cancer. Alcohol does. Withdrawal from heroin cannot kill you. Withdrawal from alcohol can. If legalized and available, regular consume of heroine would cause less harm than alcoholism.

If someone would argue that coffee should be continued to be commercialized and that Cannabis should be added as well, I wouldn't argue. Both are strong drugs and both can be seriously abused but both can also be healthy and neither is deadly. But alcohol? Please! The masses are ignorant and sluggish to change their ways. But the science is there: it will be hard to find a drug that would replace alcohol and would not decrease the damage it is causing. Legalization of hemp should be our priority, not cheap booze for oversized bellies and livers and underdeveloped brains.

"Does a brain with a underdeveloped frontal cortex have the right to self-determination?" Is a question one could or maybe should be discussing in this thread. (Just joking here, but...)

La Madame

Why are People with not fully developed frontal cortex allowed to vote from the age of 18 for people who do not seem to have a Brain at all? You Tell me now.

Suckit

https://www.newstalk.com/news/nightclubs-could-stay-open-until-6am-under-new-legislation-1327985

That will do wonders for the reduction of alcohol abuse in Ireland, as long as they all stick to drugs.