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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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    #992
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,053 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Donal55 wrote: »
    A ltr of Bacardi in the north is £16. Will it really make any difference this minimum pricing lark?

    Of course if you go shopping up North you will probably tend to buy your drinks there while you are at it.
    That won't help if you need a case of beer for say a barbecue at short notice. Then you will be rooked by this stupid law.
    Also the further you move away from the border the less likely you are to have time to go shopping up North.


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    #993
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    elperello wrote: »
    Of course if you go shopping up North you will probably tend to buy your drinks there while you are at it.
    That won't help if you need a case of beer for say a barbecue at short notice. Then you will be rooked by this stupid law.
    Also the further you move away from the border the less likely you are to have time to go shopping up North.

    This stupid law is far from being a done deal.


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    #994
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I thought they are there to serve the Irish electorate ¿

    Who in the real world thinks this is what the ordinary hard worker wants.....


    Oh I can't wait for another tax to create even more stress and take my hard earned cash away.

    I like my few drinks on occasions and should not be penalized.


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    #995
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 18,003 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Rick Shaw wrote: »
    I see Paschal has resorted to transferring some shares he has, into his wife's name to avoid a conflict of interest.

    Shares in Diageo.

    In this case its specifically because as minister for finance he has control of excise during the budget so it's a conflict of interest. Its not specifically related to the mup bill.

    From what ive heard though the mup bill still has a ways to go regardless of the muttering s we regulsrly hear


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    #996
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    VinLieger wrote: »
    From what ive heard though the mup bill still has a ways to go regardless of the muttering s we regulsrly hear

    The problem is that so far all of the opposition to it has been based around the structural separation aspect - maybe this is just because that's the only section which has been widely debated in the Oireachtas - but I'd be worried that the MUP aspect might pass without nearly as much fuss, given that the VFI types won't have been lobbying in favour of structural separation but they surely will in terms of MUP.

    Worrying story in the Sun yesterday, and another in the Indo:

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/1573068/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-insists-hes-not-a-puritan-as-critics-brand-controversial-new-booze-laws-as-nanny-state-interference-and-say-it-will-destroy-rural-shops/
    One top figure said: “It is like a crusade in there. The Taoiseach, the Department and possibly even the Minister want a legacy issue. Alcohol is the new tobacco…

    “They are complete anti-alcohol zealots in there. Apart from anything else though, a crusade diverts everyone from the mess they are making of everything else.”

    Another source told the Irish Sun: “It’s a class thing with Leo and his jogging and his guacamole tarts.

    The Alcohol Bill is being seen as a test for Health Minister Simon Harris.

    “They believe there is this big lump of working-class fellows running around — or not actually running at all — smoking their cigarettes and drinking their slabs of beer.

    “They feel the need to reform them. It’s not just Simon. Shane Ross is at it too — the joy through work brigade.”

    Senior sources in Fine Gael warned: “This is Leo’s big test for Simon.

    “You can be sure that if Simon had his way he wouldn’t be going near this. The last thing Harris needs is a load of mad Senators berating him about the small village shop and all that…

    “There’s no doubt this is Leo’s bill, he has put the skids under Simon and told him to get on with it.”

    Suspected that it was being crusaded in this manner, given comments by those involved in recent years. Also, in the Indo:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/time-could-be-called-on-salons-serving-up-alcohol-with-hair-cuts-36168765.html
    The Department of Health confirmed that the Public Health (Alcohol) Bill - which the minister hopes will be passed at the end of the year - allows for regulations to be introduced to stop the supply of alcohol where it is offered for free.

    So it looks like some of the loopholes people had hoped for won't work out either. Does this also mean the end of free bars on club launch nights and so on?


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    #997
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Could shops do raffles with drink as prizes, say a can of beer? €1 per ticket, every ticket a winner?


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    #998
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,440 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    punisher5112 wrote: »

    Oh I can't wait for another tax to create even more stress and take my hard earned cash away.

    MUP is not a tax.


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    #999
    Gerrup Outta Dat!
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 492 ✭✭Gerrup Outta Dat!


    Geuze wrote: »
    MUP is not a tax.

    It effectively is though.


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    #1000
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,440 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    It effectively is though.

    It is a legally-imposed minimum price.

    It is not an extra excise duty.

    The higher price, if it ever happens, will mean a bigger slice to the manufacturer / wholesaler / retailer.

    Ok, there will be a little extra VAT to the State, as the retail prices rises.


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    #1001
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Geuze wrote: »
    It is a legally-imposed minimum price.

    It is not an extra excise duty.

    The higher price, if it ever happens, will mean a bigger slice to the manufacturer / wholesaler / retailer.

    Ok, there will be a little extra VAT to the State, as the retail prices rises.

    Does Denis OBrien have any imminent plans to enter the alcohol industry does anyone know?


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    #1002
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,652 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I thought they are there to serve the Irish electorate ¿

    Who in the real world thinks this is what the ordinary hard worker wants.....


    Oh I can't wait for another tax to create even more stress and take my hard earned cash away.

    I like my few drinks on occasions and should not be penalized.

    They are there to serve the electorate, but not blindly so. We give them our votes on the basis that we believe that they are qualified to make the correct decisions in the best interests of the country, and in part, ourselves.

    They are not voted in to simply pander to the lowest common denominator or to do whatever they feel may make them popular. They are 'supposed' to make decisions on what is best for the country and society as a whole. Every decision, if it involves change, will necessarily impact differently on different groups. Some will feel they lose and some will feel they benefit. It is whether the balance of that is correct and justified which need to be considered.

    The ordinary worker...What ordinary worker wants to pay taxes, or have bus lanes, or pay tolls, or pay for parking. What an individual wants needs to be taken into the whole of what benefits society.

    This, has has been pointed out, is not a tax. Nobody is taking your hard earned cash away. It will be a free choice that each individual will make. There are plenty of alternatives to alcohol to drink which won't be affected by this proposed legislation. Alcoholic free beer is getting better and increasing in availability and variety. Soft drinks.

    There are plenty of studies showing the negative health impact of alcohol. Recently there has been reports of links to cancer. We all probably know of people who have had very bad relationship with alcohol, ruining their own lives and those around them. The HSE spends massive amounts of money dealing with both the long term (liver transplants etc) as well as the short term (A&E is full of alcohol related injuries at the weekends).

    We have suffered down the years for deaths and injuries caused by drink driving. Many families have been destroyed by one of more of them suffering for the effects. Many promising young people, both sporting and academic, never reach their potential as they get blunted by alcohol.

    There are many very clear and very real dangers to alcohol. So debate the pro and cons of this bill, whether it meets it stated aims or whether it is simply a sop to the vintners.


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    #1003
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    They are there to serve the electorate, but not blindly so. We give them our votes on the basis that we believe that they are qualified to make the correct decisions in the best interests of the country, and in part, ourselves.

    They are not voted in to simply pander to the lowest common denominator or to do whatever they feel may make them popular. They are 'supposed' to make decisions on what is best for the country and society as a whole. Every decision, if it involves change, will necessarily impact differently on different groups. Some will feel they lose and some will feel they benefit. It is whether the balance of that is correct and justified which need to be considered.

    The ordinary worker...What ordinary worker wants to pay taxes, or have bus lanes, or pay tolls, or pay for parking. What an individual wants needs to be taken into the whole of what benefits society.

    This, has has been pointed out, is not a tax. Nobody is taking your hard earned cash away. It will be a free choice that each individual will make. There are plenty of alternatives to alcohol to drink which won't be affected by this proposed legislation. Alcoholic free beer is getting better and increasing in availability and variety. Soft drinks.

    There are plenty of studies showing the negative health impact of alcohol. Recently there has been reports of links to cancer. We all probably know of people who have had very bad relationship with alcohol, ruining their own lives and those around them. The HSE spends massive amounts of money dealing with both the long term (liver transplants etc) as well as the short term (A&E is full of alcohol related injuries at the weekends).

    We have suffered down the years for deaths and injuries caused by drink driving. Many families have been destroyed by one of more of them suffering for the effects. Many promising young people, both sporting and academic, never reach their potential as they get blunted by alcohol.

    There are many very clear and very real dangers to alcohol. So debate the pro and cons of this bill, whether it meets it stated aims or whether it is simply a sop to the vintners.

    Until the sugar tax comes in.


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    #1004
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 18,003 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    They are there to serve the electorate, but not blindly so. We give them our votes on the basis that we believe that they are qualified to make the correct decisions in the best interests of the country, and in part, ourselves.

    They are not voted in to simply pander to the lowest common denominator or to do whatever they feel may make them popular. They are 'supposed' to make decisions on what is best for the country and society as a whole. Every decision, if it involves change, will necessarily impact differently on different groups. Some will feel they lose and some will feel they benefit. It is whether the balance of that is correct and justified which need to be considered.

    The ordinary worker...What ordinary worker wants to pay taxes, or have bus lanes, or pay tolls, or pay for parking. What an individual wants needs to be taken into the whole of what benefits society.

    This, has has been pointed out, is not a tax. Nobody is taking your hard earned cash away. It will be a free choice that each individual will make. There are plenty of alternatives to alcohol to drink which won't be affected by this proposed legislation. Alcoholic free beer is getting better and increasing in availability and variety. Soft drinks.

    There are plenty of studies showing the negative health impact of alcohol. Recently there has been reports of links to cancer. We all probably know of people who have had very bad relationship with alcohol, ruining their own lives and those around them. The HSE spends massive amounts of money dealing with both the long term (liver transplants etc) as well as the short term (A&E is full of alcohol related injuries at the weekends).

    We have suffered down the years for deaths and injuries caused by drink driving. Many families have been destroyed by one of more of them suffering for the effects. Many promising young people, both sporting and academic, never reach their potential as they get blunted by alcohol.

    There are many very clear and very real dangers to alcohol. So debate the pro and cons of this bill, whether it meets it stated aims or whether it is simply a sop to the vintners.

    Nobody is denying that alcohol isnt healthy just that there is zero evidence to prove MUP will have any effect and will simply punish those of us who can drink responsibly.

    They claim they are trying to help people who abuse alcohol ie alcoholics, people who have an addiction dont care about the price or cost of that addiction therefor MUP is not going to affect these people one iota.

    The other issue that anyone who is pushing this bill likes to conveniently ignore is the HEAVY lobbying for this by the vintners who want to force customers back into their pubs by increasing the cost of the off trade. This bill is about that agenda and no other.


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    #1005
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    VinLieger wrote: »
    The other issue that anyone who is pushing this bill likes to conveniently ignore is the HEAVY lobbying for this by the vintners who want to force customers back into their pubs by increasing the cost of the off trade. This bill is about that agenda and no other.

    The lie being espoused that their concerns are for our health gets exposed when you go back to the 2011 manifesto.

    Supporting Irish Pubs:
    Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs.

    Which proves without a shadow of a doubt that this is pandering to the VFI and publicans.

    They have been busy deleting other stuff from our prying eyes.
    Nearly ten years of footage of debates from Leinster House that was accessible to the public has been permanently deleted from the Internet by the Oireachtas.
    some people hope we have short memories it seems

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/09/25/scarcely-believable/


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    #1006
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    VinLieger wrote: »
    The other issue that anyone who is pushing this bill likes to conveniently ignore is the HEAVY lobbying for this by the vintners who want to force customers back into their pubs by increasing the cost of the off trade. This bill is about that agenda and no other.

    yes - if you look in the FG manifesto from the 2011 election, this policy is there, but not for health reasons, it is called out expressly as protectionism for the Vintners:

    Supporting Irish Pubs Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs.

    By 2016 they had realized that was a dead giveaway, and moved the policy to the Health column, but the Internet never forgets.


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    #1007
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    To sum it up.

    There's no problem getting blotto in a nice warm VFI members pubs funnelling €6 pints of like warm Stella down your neck.

    But buying 4 x cans of a decent German pilsner for €7 from the off license on your way home from a hard weeks graft of a Friday evening must be stamped out.

    Go figure.


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    #1008
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    I spoke with a prominent Blueshirt in Cork last week who told me that we had to get back to a time when people went to the pub and did their drinking there.
    When I told him that most pubs don't sell what I want at a price I can afford, he asserted that I only drink piss anyway.


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    #1009
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    More articles about this today, few quotes about hoping to get it passed before Halloween :eek:

    Time to start stocking up, just in case. FF is in favour of minimum pricing just like FG, so backbenchers might have a harder time blocking it than we might have hoped...


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    #1010
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    Consequences of this bill like banning barbers giving you a beer with your haircut are such horse****. Complete overreach by government and will problem do more harm than good. All it does is reinforce the taboo aspect of alcohol consumption and stamps out any notion that one can drink a beer casually outside of binging on a night out


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    #1011
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    More articles about this today, few quotes about hoping to get it passed before Halloween :eek:

    Time to start stocking up, just in case. FF is in favour of minimum pricing just like FG, so backbenchers might have a harder time blocking it than we might have hoped...

    I have emailed all the TDs in my area reminding them that my vote was only lent to any of them last time out.

    I attached a snippet from FGs 2011 manifesto, where they state categorically that they wished to ban "below cost selling" of alcohol, not for health reasons (as is now being claimed) but in a vain effort to get arses back into their VFI buddies pubs.

    And letting them know that any party that would support legislation that servea little other purpose than bolster drinks giants profit margins will lose any vote from my household and extended family.

    I suggest others do the same.


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    #1012
    Ted Plain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭Ted Plain


    Are Northern Ireland planning on doing the same any time soon? If not, the traffic into Newry should tell Varadkar what us commoner plebs think of his vanity project.


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    #1013
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    If the Irish went on strike and stopped drinking for 2 weeks in protest at minimum pricing the government and the vintners would sh1t themselves.

    Of course, won't happen.

    People really are stupid.


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    #1014
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,439 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    dresden8 wrote: »
    If the Irish went on strike and stopped drinking for 2 weeks in protest at minimum pricing the government and the vintners would sh1t themselves.

    Of course, won't happen.

    People really are stupid.

    Just boycotts pubs for one. No will power or solidarity though, and the governemtn knows this.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #1015
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Just boycotts pubs for one. No will power or solidarity though, and the governemtn knows this.

    We could organise pickets outside pubs and then go for a pint before we go home.


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    #1016
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    We could organise pickets outside pubs and then go for a pint before we go home.

    That's the "spirit".


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    #1017
    Gerrup Outta Dat!
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 492 ✭✭Gerrup Outta Dat!


    How many people here are considering regular trips up North for a stock up?


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    #1018
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,510 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    How many people here are considering regular trips up North for a stock up?

    you'll need to sort out a visa for that soon enough :pac:


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    #1019
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,053 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Stocking up or planning trips to Newry are only sticking plaster solutions.
    We need some sort of plan but I'm sorry I haven't come up with any brainwave so far.


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    #1020
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,053 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    http://www.thejournal.ie/barbers-poll-beer-3615904-Sep2017/

    Can you believe this nonsense!
    It's like we have been taken over by aliens!


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    #1021
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    How many people here are considering regular trips up North for a stock up?
    Part of the thinking is that if they do that up north too then there won't be any point.


    The big question is how much did wine consumption permanently fall by after 2012 when they added a euro to every bottle ?


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