Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

fxotoole

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Cina wrote: »

I'll get you, Beer Baron.

no you won't

The_Valeyard

fxotoole wrote: »

no you won't

Yes, i will...

elperello

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

ECJ ruling was irritatingly inconclusive, saying that it was probably illegal but ultimately up to national courts to decide. Scottish Court of Session (genuinely the name of the court ) decided that the health benefits superseded competition law in this case. The question is, is anyone going to take a case in the Irish courts? I highly doubt any businesses will, and seeing how expensive it is for ordinary people to go to court, the only way I can see it happening is if a bunch of us crowd-fund a challenge.

That's an interesting idea. Maybe as a start you could crowd fund to get a legal opinion.It wouldn't cost as much as a case and might influence the debate.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/legal-opinion.html

Just Google legal opinion.
You might engage a lawyer with expertise in EU competition law to run an eye over the proposed legislation.
Also some research into the issue in Scotland may help.

adam240610

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

RoboRat wrote: »

I don't bother buying drink anymore, just brew it myself. Costs about €0.45 cent for 500ml of high quality 13% cider that tastes delicious and is super simple to make. You can also buy kits which are just add water and let them ferment, they work out around €0.80 for a 500ml bottle.

I get wine kits and make the wine too, costs less than €1 per bottle and it's a gorgeous shiraz, much nicer than a lot of stuff you pay €10 upwards for.

Small outlay initially getting the equipment - cost me about €100 for a 33L fermenter with tap/ thermometer, brewing yeast, brewing sugar, bottle cleaner, hydrometer, 30 x reusable 500ml swing top bottles, carbonation tabs... you can do it far cheaper if you want to reuse stuff you have like bottles and buckets.

Some really good recipes on the brewing forum and I guarantee once you make it yourself, you won't want to go back to the mass produced crap. Oh, and no hangovers and I used to suffer really badly with hangovers.

I tried making a beer, tasted like crap from a kit. Might try cider next time, where did you buy the apple juice for yours if it was nice? An orchard? I have all the equipment at least.

hatrickpatrick

10000maniacs wrote: »

Not pointless if you are a bar owner or a politician who is related to a bar owner. its a pretty good law if you fit into that category.
Its more Fine Gael faux nanny state hyperbole.

As I said before, I'd take a bet that this will ultimately backfire in that regard, due to the fact that a lot of binge drinking types who currently drink a few at home before going out will simply reduce the number of nights out overall rather than drinking less on each night out. Since it's mainly young people who binge drink in this way and also mainly young people the pubs are worried about trying to gain as customers, I can only see that hurting their business.

Ipso

adam240610 wrote: »

I tried making a beer, tasted like crap from a kit. Might try cider next time, where did you buy the apple juice for yours if it was nice? An orchard? I have all the equipment at least.

Get a large gallon/four litre jug. Make sure there aren't too many preservatives as this can impact the yeast. Hopefully you can find a glass container it comes in, you can ferment in that and re-use it.
Apples straight from the orchard have the potential for wild yeast, sometimes it can work out ok, others it can give bad flavours.
Cider is easy, you need some equipment like a siphon tube for bottling at a later date.

elperello

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As I said before, I'd take a bet that this will ultimately backfire in that regard, due to the fact that a lot of binge drinking types who currently drink a few at home before going out will simply reduce the number of nights out overall rather than drinking less on each night out. Since it's mainly young people who binge drink in this way and also mainly young people the pubs are worried about trying to gain as customers, I can only see that hurting their business.

Given that most people have a finite amount to spend after paying all bills and essentials anything that takes from that amount will cause pressure somewhere in the market.

I suspect that craft brewers may not do as well out of this as some people think.
Their market is folk who enjoy a beer at home. At the moment they get a bargain case of beer and maybe occasionally push the boat out to try a few craft beers. They like the taste and buy a few more.
The price of the case of beer goes up from 16-18e to 23-25e thus taking away that discretionary cash.
If the drinker is paying extra for his "bread and butter" or "everyday" tipple he will have less to experiment with.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The Poll options are poor. I'm against this because I don't agree with so called 'nanny state' policies and don't feel the government has the right to interfere in private enterprise to the extent of price fixing.

However at the same time I don't believe that the issues with alcohol abuse in this country are myths.

McMurphy

This thread has made me fierce thirsty.

Gonna bag me a €6.20 4 pack of zywiec on the way home.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Rick Shaw wrote: »

This thread has made me fierce thirsty.

Gonna bag me a €6.20 4 pack of zywiec on the way home.

That sounds a bit steep.

Get a 4 pack of Tuborg for a fiver instead.:pac:

KrustyUCC

Rick Shaw wrote: »

This thread has made me fierce thirsty.

Gonna bag me a €6.20 4 pack of zywiec on the way home.

Same 4 pack will cost €8.84 under the new legislation for no good reason

A 42.5% increase when we already have some of the most expensive booze in Europe

500ml*0.056(5.6%)*0.789*0.10

elperello

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Poll options are poor. I'm against this because I don't agree with so called 'nanny state' policies and don't feel the government has the right to interfere in private enterprise to the extent of price fixing.

However at the same time I don't believe that the issues with alcohol abuse in this country are myths.

I know what you mean, there is definitely alcohol abuse in Ireland just as there is a level of it in many other countries. The thing is that some individuals abuse alcohol but by far the majority don't. Buying drink never did anyone any harm, it's only when you consume it irresponsibly that the problems start. This neo-prohibitionist legislation is addressing the problem from the wrong direction.
Excessive drinking is only a symptom, the real issues are what people need help with. However that is more difficult and expensive so our legislators are going for the shortcut which won't work.

Rick Shaw

Rick Shaw wrote: »

This thread has made me fierce thirsty.

Gonna bag me a €6.20 4 pack of zywiec on the way home.

So thats 1.55 a can? The sickening thing is, if you were to order a pint of Zywiec in a pub in Poland, you'd get change from 1.55.

I used to smoke and for the last 2 years or so before I quit I didn't buy a single pack of cigarettes in Ireland. I went abroad about twice a year and got stocked up and there were a few of my friends who didnt smoke and I'd give them money to pick me up a couple of cartons.

When this comes in, I'll be doing the same thing for spirits.

Ive also got 22litres of honey fermenting away at the moment and I'll be trying my hand at lager once its bottled. Everyone else in my family is involved in brewing and distillation. Im the black sheep of the family as I work in IT, but thats going to change.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rick Shaw wrote: »

This thread has made me fierce thirsty.

Gonna bag me a €6.20 4 pack of zywiec on the way home.

Bloody hell - has the damn law been brought in already?

Mrloverlover

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I'm all n favor of minimum pricing and I applaud its imminent introduction.

Personally, I can't really see it affecting me as I don't drink the type of cheap alcohol this will most likely target.

Oh ya once it doesn't effect you, you're all for it and screw any other demographic that might suffer ... Nice

Mrloverlover

Mrloverlover wrote: »

Oh ya once it doesn't effect you, you're all for it and screw any other demographic that might suffer ... Nice

Its very short sighted and naïve to think it wont affect him.

He'll be back on here in a couple of months complaining.

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

So thats 1.55 a can? The sickening thing is, if you were to order a pint of Zywiec in a pub in Poland, you'd get change from 1.55.
.

Yeah, I know that. I do be over in Poland and Belarus a few times a year, and I am well aware how expensive it must seem to Poles over here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Bloody hell - has the damn law been brought in already?

Well personally, I consider that a bargain as it does be in my local Centra/Eurospar or O'Briens for €9 a 4 pack.

However, if you're aware of somewhere I can purchase it cheaper than €6.20, in Ireland, on my route home from work (Which admittedly varies from evening to evening) I'm all ears.

elperello

Deleted User wrote: »

Its very short sighted and naïve to think it wont affect him.

He'll be back on here in a couple of months complaining.

He well may as there are quite a few nice beers available at bargain prices from time to time. Some very acceptable wines come up in the special offers also.
All of these chances to stock up will be removed from us with the new law.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Yeah, I know that. I do be over in Poland and Belarus a few times a year, and I am well aware how expensive it must seem to Poles over here.



Well personally, I consider that a bargain as it does be in my local Centra/Eurospar or O'Briens for €9 a 4 pack.

However, if you're aware of somewhere I can purchase it cheaper than €6.20, in Ireland, on my route home from work (Which admittedly varies from evening to evening) I'm all ears.

I'm in Berlin, sorry . Can get the same for about 3.50 at the local, and that would be considered mid-range pricewise.

McMurphy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm in Berlin, sorry . Can get the same for about 3.50 at the local, and that would be considered mid-range pricewise.

Feckin rub it in so PCB :mad:

elperello

Those last few posts just serve to illustrate the madness of the MUP proposals -

4 pack of Zywiec
Centra, Eurospar,O'Briens €9
Off- Licence Dublin €6.20
Berlin €3.50

And our brave legislators think cheap drink is our problem.

Capt'n Midnight

Back in the days when more books were censored, there was an anomaly where sometimes the paperback was banned but the hardback version of the same book wasn't.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Back in the days when more books were censored, there was an anomaly where sometimes the paperback was banned but the hardback version of the same book wasn't.

Whats your point?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Feckin rub it in so PCB :mad:

Yeah, sorry, couldn't resist!

But when you wrote 6.20 for a 4 pack...? What else can you do?!

(That said, 1.55 for a half litre isn't too bad a price, in all fairness)

What being in Berlin shows you, though, is that there is absolueltly, unequivabley and definitiely NO connection between the price of the beer and the amounf of drunken problems it causes. Period. The argument in favour of minimum pricing as a health measure dies right here.

Shelflife

The official line is that all the parties are behind this as it's a health bill and it's being sold to them as lives being saved.

The truth of the matter is that there is a lot of dissent in the ranks as the various senators and Tds start to read the actual bill and see how stupid it is .

The fact that people are getting in touch with them and voicing dissatisfaction with the bill is also helping.

If enough people get in touch they will make a difference.

Jim Bob Scratcher

If they really think this will help the pub trade then they are gravelly mistaken, in fact it will more than likely create the opposite. More people will use the black market and head up North to stock up on hooch, including myself

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats your point?

It's a measure that only affected those who bought the cheaper version.

It's a paywall.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's a measure that only affected those who bought the cheaper version.

It's a paywall.

I'm still not really following you, but for anyone who says this won't affect them because they only buy 12 year old scotch let me say this:

Tesco own brand bourbon is 14.99. Jameson standard blend Regular Retail Price is 29.99, Talisker 12 year old RRPs at 51. After this law comes in, the Bourbon will now be 28. Is Jameson(Owned by Pernod Ricard) going to allow a 2 euro difference between its self and the cheapest whiskey you can buy? Definitely not. It'll go up to 38 or 39 at least. Then Talisker(owned by Diageo) go "Do we want our premium, 12 year old single malt to be only 12 euros more than a blended whiskey?". Definitely not, so Talisker will go up to at least 60 if not more.

Anyone who says this won't affect them because they don't buy 'cheap' alcohol will be cursing this bill once it comes in when they find their usual tipples have gone way up.

suicide_circus

This bill will, at the stroke of a pen, send tens of thousands of Irish children deeper into poverty.

hatrickpatrick

Shelflife wrote: »

The official line is that all the parties are behind this as it's a health bill and it's being sold to them as lives being saved.

The truth of the matter is that there is a lot of dissent in the ranks as the various senators and Tds start to read the actual bill and see how stupid it is .

Is there any evidence of this? So far all I've seen is opposition to the structural separation in shops aspect, haven't seen any dissent from the lead in parties on minimum pricing specifically - although this could be because the bill was filibustered in the Seanad long before they got around to debating that section of it.

I'm not holding out a huge amount of hope that the Oireachtas will block this one, I have a feeling that it's going to come down to courts and/or loopholes in the legislation.