Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

VinLieger

Deedsie wrote: »

Can you read? Further Measures

Okay this is going round in circles are you for or against the public health alcohol bill?

VinLieger

Deedsie wrote: »

I am not, where did I say you cant drink at home? Dont be ridiculous. You will just have to pay more or travel North or drink less.

Why should I if its already proven doing so wont affect anyone's consumption levels?

McMurphy

Deedsie wrote: »

I drink in a pub occasionally. I can also manage to drink responsibly. Like it or not, The Irish Pub is a big part of our tourism draw so it is natural that the government are going to support the pub over cheap booze in supermarkets.

This does not equal "the bill is only to benefit vintners" It is mainly a public health initiative with impacts elsewhere.

Anyone any up to date statistics as to how many of our TDs and ministers are also publicans/family members who are, and are members of the VFI?

You have to take that minor little detail into consideration too you see.

elperello

Deedsie wrote: »

20 bottles of beer for €20? Ya, thats responsible behaviour from a retailer

Let's get down to basics.
You buy the case of beer for 20e.
You bring it home.
You drink two per day over 10 days or you have friends over and share it.
What's irresponsible about the retailer selling you the beer?

Padraig Mor

Deedsie wrote: »

20 bottles of beer for €20? Ya, thats responsible behaviour from a retailer

I suggest you visit supermarkets in most other European countries if you think that's 'cheap'.

Deedsie

Deedsie wrote: »

I would never consider it. Young people unfortunately dont seem to realise that. Poor example set in the home perhaps, pressure from peers to "drink up" even though they are a 60kg teenager.

Ah yeah, the kids.

elperello

Deedsie wrote: »

I am not, where did I say you cant drink at home? Dont be ridiculous. You will just have to pay more or travel North or drink less.

With all due respect, they are not great options!!

McMurphy

Deedsie wrote: »

The Tourism sector? Yes of course. Thousands of jobs, who in their right mind wouldnt support the government supporting tourism.

Didn't they avail of a vat reduction a good while back?

ohnonotgmail

Deedsie wrote: »

Can you read? Further Measures

and here was me thinking we were discussing the efficacy of the proposed bill.

McMurphy

Deedsie wrote: »

Yes. And?

What was that for?

Padraig Mor

Padraig Mor wrote: »

The booze in the supermarkets isn't cheap - it just seems that way due to the rip off prices in pubs.

Im sick of hearing about cheap alcohol in supermarkets. Cheap compared to where?

The last 8 years have been tough on my partner and I. There were many months when I didn't drink at all during the month because I couldn't justify spending 5 euros on a 4 pack of cans. There was one week when we had fried rice with peas and onion for breakfast and dinner every day for the week because a week before payday all I could afford was a bag of rice and a bag of peas.

Regina Doherty is in the news today after saying she couldn't live on 198 euro a week. We had many weeks when after rent and bills we had 20 to last us for the week and we ate very well on it. Thanks to Lidl and Aldi I can do a weekly shop for the 2 of us for about 30, including a bottle of wine. In the 8 years we both lost our jobs at one point or another. I've no debts but also no savings. Also in those 8 years we didn't get one cent of assistance from the social welfare. My partner after paying PRSI for over a decade was told to go back to Poland as she had no ties to Ireland. We're both back working fulltime but its still a struggle. The price of everything has gone up in those 8 years. We are earning a lot more than we were in 2007 and still struggle to make ends meet some months.

This lie of their being cheap alcohol in supermarkets makes me so angry. Its only cheap if you can afford it and this move by the government to make it even less affodable outrages me. All they are doing is punishing people who are already struggling and who have struggled for a few years now and to placate us they will give us 20 quid back a month in the budget.

VinLieger

Deedsie wrote: »

The Tourism sector? Yes of course. Thousands of jobs, who in their right mind wouldnt support the government supporting tourism.

Pubs are not part of the tourism sector, and again your making excuses now, you wanted them to support local pubs cus of social isolation, then it was cus pubs needed help, now its cus pubs are vital to tourism, and then you go back to health and the circle repeats itself, pick a reason. Or is it you possibly have a vested interest? I ask because not one of your reasons so far for supporting this bill holds up to any scrutiny whatsoever

pilly

Deleted User wrote: »

Im sick of hearing about cheap alcohol in supermarkets. Cheap compared to where?

The last 8 years have been tough on my partner and I. There were many months when I didn't drink at all during the month because I couldn't justify spending 5 euros on a 4 pack of cans. There was one week when we had fried rice with peas and onion for breakfast and dinner every day for the week because a week before payday all I could afford was a bag of rice and a bag of peas.

Regina Doherty is in the news today after saying she couldn't live on 198 euro a week. We had many weeks when after rent and bills we had 20 to last us for the week and we ate very well on it. Thanks to Lidl and Aldi I can do a weekly shop for the 2 of us for about 30, including a bottle of wine. In the 8 years we both lost our jobs at one point or another. I've no debts but also no savings. Also in those 8 years we didn't get one cent of assistance from the social welfare. My partner after paying PRSI for over a decade was told to go back to Poland as she had no ties to Ireland. We're both back working fulltime but its still a struggle. The price of everything has gone up in those 8 years. We are earning a lot more than we were in 2007 and still struggle to make ends meet some months.

This lie of their being cheap alcohol in supermarkets makes me so angry. Its only cheap if you can afford it and this move by the government to make it even less affodable outrages me. All they are doing is punishing people who are already struggling and who have struggled for a few years now and to placate us they will give us 20 quid back a month in the budget.

Sorry but your post is full of holes. NO way someone with 10 years PRSI was told to go back to Poland for a start.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deedsie wrote: »

I drink in a pub occasionally. I can also manage to drink responsibly. Like it or not, The Irish Pub is a big part of our tourism draw so it is natural that the government are going to support the pub over cheap booze in supermarkets.

This does not equal "the bill is only to benefit vintners" It is mainly a public health initiative with impacts elsewhere.

So having accepted that is it nothing to do with the greater good/health reasons, you now admit that it IS being done to advantage the vinters?

elperello

Deedsie wrote: »

Take it up with the politicians next time they come calling. Invite them in for a drink perhaps?

I'll more likely set the dogs on them!!

Zubeneschamali

Deedsie wrote: »

The Irish Pub is a big part of our tourism draw so it is natural that the government are going to support the pub over cheap booze in supermarkets.

Nonsense - they are not doing it to support Tourism, they are doing it to support the IVI because they are in bed with them.

And even if they were doing it for Tourism, that would be nothing to do with Health.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Nonsense - they are not doing it to support Tourism, they are doing it to support the IVI because they are in bed with them.

And even if they were doing it for Tourism, that would be nothing to do with Health.

It's nothing to do with tourism because tourists don't come to Ireland in order to buy beer in supermarkets!

If it was to do with tourism the governemnt would be encouraging pubs to reduce prices by relaxing alcohol tax laws, not the other way around.

elperello

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's nothing to do with tourism because tourists don't come to Ireland in order to buy beer in supermarkets!

If it was to do with tourism the governemnt would be encouraging pubs to reduce prices by relaxing alcohol tax laws, not the other way around.

Darn right they don't!!

I have actually seen UK and German tourists unloading cases of beer from their cars that they have brought from home on arriving at their destination in Ireland.

They tend to be the ones who have been before and were shocked at the prices in our supermarkets.

Next year they will know for sure that we are Pixieheads.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

Sorry but your post is full of holes. NO way someone with 10 years PRSI was told to go back to Poland for a start.

So are you inferring that I'm lying?

I don't know what to tell you, I read the letter myself it was there in black and white.

What other holes are in my post?

hatrickpatrick

Leroy42 wrote: »

But you make it sound like impacting casual drinkers is a bad thing? Surely reduction in alcoholic intake is a good thing

No, it isn't. People should be free to make their own choices and the state should not be in the business of trying to dictate cultural and social change. I don't want to live in an authoritarian country and I'm pretty sure a lot of others don't either.

Shelflife

The problem with the bill is it will only impact on the casual drinker. The booze curtains may stop an impulse buyer but it wont stop a problem drinker.

The latest word is Denormalisation they want to denormalise alcohol, they dont want it beside everyday items -- (insert baby food and nappies here).

Who decides what needs to be denormalised and what doesn't ?

What product gets denormalised next ? Sweets , Icecream ? will butter and sugar be made a aged limited products next ?

Its a few zealots who may well have seen the bad side of alcohol imposing their restrictions on the vast majority of the general public that treat alcohol with the respect that it deserves.

Remember these zealots are the ones who classify 3 mates who go out once a week and buy a round each as binge drinkers !

Jimmy Garlic

Deedsie wrote: »

20 bottles of beer for €20? Ya, thats responsible behaviour from a retailer

How are they being irresponsible? Someone could buy a cheap knife in Dunnes and go on a rampage, would Dunnes be responsible for that? A euro for a 330ml bottle is still over and above what people would be paying in most other European countries. 500ml cans of beer can be bought for as little as 50c in French supermarkets. If someone wants to skull 20 bottles of beer in a sitting thats their problem..If the price was doubled in the morning it wouldn't change their attitude towards drink.

KrustyUCC

Alcohol being cheap in Ireland is a myth

We are the 4th highest price for alcohol in Europe as it is

Lets take a bottle of whiskey in Aldi. Their own brand Queen Margot. The red one not the ages black one.

Sells in Germany €9.99

Sells in Ireland €15.29 as it is. That is already 53.05% dearer than Germany

Under this bill the same bottle would now be €22.09. That would be 121.12% dearer than Germany and an 44.47% increase in price overnight

Nobody can justify than increase for everyone

Also if a bottle of Queen Margot has to go up 44.47%, does anybody think that Jameson, Powers etc won't increase their prices by the same margin?

Leroy42

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No, it isn't. People should be free to make their own choices and the state should not be in the business of trying to dictate cultural and social change. I don't want to live in an authoritarian country and I'm pretty sure a lot of others don't either.

So everything is a go. Drugs, speeding, drink driving. You do realise that for a society to function certain rules or norms must be adhered to.

Shelflife wrote: »

The problem with the bill is it will only impact on the casual drinker. The booze curtains may stop an impulse buyer but it wont stop a problem drinker.

The latest word is Denormalisation they want to denormalise alcohol, they dont want it beside everyday items -- (insert baby food and nappies here).

Who decides what needs to be denormalised and what doesn't ?

What product gets denormalised next ? Sweets , Icecream ? will butter and sugar be made a aged limited products next ?

Its a few zealots who may well have seen the bad side of alcohol imposing their restrictions on the vast majority of the general public that treat alcohol with the respect that it deserves.

Remember these zealots are the ones who classify 3 mates who go out once a week and buy a round each as binge drinkers !

Society decides. A we place that job in the hands of elected TD's in order to bring some order to the process.

A classic whataboutery. Don't do anything to the thing I like because there is loads of other things they might do as well.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Leroy42 wrote: »

So everything is a go. Drugs, speeding, drink driving. You do realise that for a society to function certain rules or norms must be adhered to.

Don't think he was advocating anarchy, somehow. Plus, we're not actually talking about a law than makes anything illegal - not even the drug in question.

Society decides. A we place that job in the hands of elected TD's in order to bring some order to the process.

A classic whataboutery. Don't do anything to the thing I like because there is loads of other things they might do as well.

Are you implying that every person who voted for a TD currently in power is automatically agreeing with the idea? I think we've have to call Mr. Logical Fallacy here regarding an appeal to the masses.

Shelflife

I agree with you on one point, society decides, but the vast majority agree that this is a nonsense bill.

Society isnt deciding this, its a few zealots in the Health dept aided and abetted by the likes of Sen Black who has no mandate from society yet is at the forefront of this piece of legislation.

Leroy42

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Don't think he was advocating anarchy, somehow. Plus, we're not actually talking about a law than makes anything illegal - not even the drug in question.



Are you implying that every person who voted for a TD currently in power is automatically agreeing with the idea? I think we've have to call Mr. Logical Fallacy here regarding an appeal to the masses.

No, I am saying that we elect TD's to be the voice of the nation. They sometimes need to make decision that many would feel are not in their individual interests but which our for the benefit of the society as a whole.

Of course this doesn't actually work in practice!

Shelflife wrote: »

I agree with you on one point, society decides, but the vast majority agree that this is a nonsense bill.

Society isnt deciding this, its a few zealots in the Health dept aided and abetted by the likes of Sen Black who has no mandate from society yet is at the forefront of this piece of legislation.

I'm not sure what the general feeling about this is. I know that the feeling on this forum is very against it, but I haven't seen any opinion polls covering this.

I can't recall, but I would guess there was also huge negative feeling towards the smoking ban when that was brought up. (I will happily accept that I could be wrong in that).

But as I said earlier, these are all side issues to what is the point of thread. I am against this legislation, not because I am against the thinking behind the bill (at least as it is currently expressed) of reducing alcohol availability but because how it is being done.

Capt'n Midnight

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Lets take a bottle of whiskey in Aldi. Their own brand Queen Margot. The red one not the ages black one.

Sells in Germany €9.99

Sells in Ireland €15.29 as it is. That is already 53.05% dearer than Germany

Under this bill the same bottle would now be €22.09

Let's be clear out of the €6.80 increase , €5.52 goes to ALDI as extra profit.

Some would suggest government might get the other €1.28 as extra VAT but that's only going to happen if people dip into their savings for the €6.80 increase. More likely people who buy the cheap brands will reduce spending on other things and so VAT from them.

In short I can't see how this could mean extra revenue for the health service.

VinLieger

Leroy42 wrote: »

No, I am saying that we elect TD's to be the voice of the nation. They sometimes need to make decision that many would feel are not in their individual interests but which our for the benefit of the society as a whole.

Thats all well and good and I agree but this bill specifically serves no purpose other than to try and put more money into the vintners pockets. FG admitted as much in their 2011 manifesto as you well know.

RoboRat

adam240610 wrote: »

I tried making a beer, tasted like crap from a kit. Might try cider next time, where did you buy the apple juice for yours if it was nice? An orchard? I have all the equipment at least.

Cloudy pressed apple juice from Lidl, costs about 70 cent a litre. Great recipe on the brewing forum ðŸ˜