Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Checkmate19

Pub prices even if they didnt go up in the last six years they where and are still complete rip off. I know my local the price of a pint went up a few times in the last six years. Whiterspoons are showing what a complete and utter rip off pubs are. Prices never come down. So i really have no sympathy for pubs. They milked it during the good times and are now crying poverty and trying to get this law in under its good for health. Go an ask my bolllixxxxxxxxxxxx.

elperello

Asus X540L wrote: »

Probably posted already, but Dutch Mould posted this on FB.
6.32 doesn't seem too bad I heard it was 2 euro minimum per gatt

€6.32 for 4 = €37.92 for 24

Currently you can often buy a case of 24 of various brands for €24.

If you are just drinking 6 cans per week say 1 case per month your annual budget will have to find €167.04 extra.

And that's by no means a lot of drinking. If you push the boat out and add in a bottle of wine each week and maybe an extra case at Christmas you will find your "bill for the Bill" heading towards €300 extra

Leroy42

ardinn wrote: »

No, as every other cost I have has gone up, and lowering prices will not entice enough new business or encourage anyone of my customers to drink more. Maybe in populations centers this would be an option with promotions etc, but not where I am.

Your heart bleeds easily!

But Ardinn, some of the margins you have are incredible. Sell a btl for 4.50 that costs no more than 1.50. Thats pretty amazing in this day and age to be making that type of margin.
There must be something seroiusly wrong with the business model if you struggle on margins such as that.

elperello

http://petitions.ie/view-petitions/ireland/NoMin

I think that is a live link to the petition.
There seems to be something of a storm brewing over on Facebook (no pun intended).

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Leroy42 wrote: »

But Ardinn, some of the margins you have are incredible. Sell a btl for 4.50 that costs no more than 1.50. Thats pretty amazing in this day and age to be making that type of margin.
There must be something seroiusly wrong with the business model if you struggle on margins such as that.

But Leroy

Did we not have this conversation allready on costs etc.

Are you saying pubs are closing at a rate of 1 per day for the last 4 years as a result of overly high profit margins??

They must have run out of room to store all the money!!

Leroy42

We did but you keep harking back to all these higher costs yet the margins should more than cover them.

Pubs are not the only businesses to have to pay wages and rates etc. Yet most would kill to have those margins.

I don't understand how the prices need to be so high compared to the offy.

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Leroy42 wrote: »

We did but you keep harking back to all these higher costs yet the margins should more than cover them.

Pubs are not the only businesses to have to pay wages and rates etc. Yet most would kill to have those margins.

I don't understand how the prices need to be so high compared to the offy.

Well I explained in some detail a few pages back why they need to be - If you missed it or dont understand I cant help you any further.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ardinn wrote: »

But Leroy

Did we not have this conversation allready on costs etc.

Are you saying pubs are closing at a rate of 1 per day for the last 4 years as a result of overly high profit margins??

They must have run out of room to store all the money!!

Possibly a bit late to the party, here - but even if pubs are closing, is it the responsibility of the government to prop up failing businesses by giving them an unfair market advantage (i.e. - forcing competitors to raise prices?)

Leroy42

I will go back and search it out. My recollection is that you simply said costs were really high but I could be mistaken and apologies if you have.

On my phone so searching is a pain but I'll check later.

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Possibly a bit late to the party, here - but even if pubs are closing, is it the responsibility of the government to prop up failing businesses by giving them an unfair market advantage (i.e. - forcing competitors to raise prices?)

Thats not whats happening - the government is bringing in a health Bill aimed at reducing alcohol consumption, what ever way you want to dress it up or say otherwise this is what it is.

We are not getting "propped up" We are not getting a handout, we are not getting rebates, reductions, or any other such thing.

We arent Farmers like!!

weldoninhio

ardinn wrote: »

So prices went up this year due to supplier increases.

Now, lobbying by the vintners towards government and the drink suppliers has resulted in no price increases on alcohol (at least in our own, and other local and county pubs) for the last 6 yrs.

The bolded bit above is the same shyte spewed out by people ignorant on the issue day in day out.

Now, there is exceptions, always exceptions, but the vast majority (in my experience anyway) have not increased there prices in that space of time.

Your blanket generalizations are false!

So what you are saying is, your anecdotal evidence good. Everyone else’s anecdotal evidence bad.

Gotcha. Laughable.

ardinn

ardinn wrote: »

Thats not whats happening - the government is bringing in a health Bill aimed at reducing alcohol consumption, what ever way you want to dress it up or say otherwise this is what it is.

We are not getting "propped up" We are not getting a handout, we are not getting rebates, reductions, or any other such thing.

We arent Farmers like!!

But you are having the market shifted in your favour.

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Deleted User wrote: »

But you are having the market shifted in your favour.

God forbid an industry has a favourable market shift!!!! Even if it was an accident!!

weldoninhio

ardinn wrote: »

God forbid an industry has a favourable market shift!!!! Even if it was an accident!!

Lobbing the government isn’t an accident.

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

weldoninhio wrote: »

So what you are saying is, your anecdotal evidence good. Everyone else’s anecdotal evidence bad.

Gotcha. Laughable.

Your laughable - in every thread you post in - Have you ran out of steam on the McGregor thread and now your here?

My Factual evidence is that the vintners have pressured the government and suppliers to stop any price increases for the last 6 yrs and it has worked, (apart from this year as stated) Thats a fact - Not anecdotal - Moronic post!! Those savings have been passed onto you - the consumer! Like it or not! Although I presume youd rather the price went up in every budget so you could give out more!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ardinn wrote: »

Thats not whats happening - the government is bringing in a health Bill aimed at reducing alcohol consumption, what ever way you want to dress it up or say otherwise this is what it is.

We are not getting "propped up" We are not getting a handout, we are not getting rebates, reductions, or any other such thing.

We arent Farmers like!!

It's not a health bill and it would be very niave to think so. If that was the intention, they'd do what the Scandinavian countries do and tax it across the boards. (Yes, I know it's already heavily taxed at the moment, but this would be the way to do it). The aim is not to reduce alcohol consumption it's to reduce alcohol consumption outside of pubs.

I never said anything about it propping up or handed out - I called it an unfair business advantage. If you disagree with it, are you doing so on the basis that it's not unfair or not an advantage?

Do you accept or reject that pubs will get an afvantage from this?

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Lobbing the government isn’t an accident.

What happened there now??

weldoninhio

ardinn wrote: »

Your laughable - in every thread you post in - Have you ran out of steam on the McGregor thread and now your here?

My Factual evidence is that the vintners have pressured the government and suppliers to stop any price increases for the last 6 yrs and it has worked, (apart from this year as stated) Thats a fact - Not anecdotal - Moronic post!! Those savings have been passed onto you - the consumer! Like it or not! Although I presume youd rather the price went up in every budget so you could give out more!!

This is not the McGregor thread, if you want to address me about him, you know where to go.

Excise may not have risen, but the price of a pint has, more than once in the past 6 years. That’s what the poster you pooh poohed said, he was giving his anecdotal evidence, which i’d back up as it’s happened in my local and all over Dublin. Most people would be able to tell you that the pint has risen.

A lot more than would tell you that an elderly man they know became an alco because he has to get his booze in an offie rather than a pub. :rollseyes:

ardinn

ardinn wrote: »

Those savings have been passed onto you - the consumer! Like it or not! Although I presume youd rather the price went up in every budget so you could give out more!!

Massive savings alright. Pubs are dying because they charge upwards of five euros for a bottle of beer that costs a little over two euros in an off licence. I'll save my money and spend it in the off licence, not the pub. If the off licence prices go up too much I'll just make more home brew and give two fingers to the publicans.

Leroy42

ardinn wrote: »

weldoninhio wrote: »

So what you are saying is, your anecdotal evidence good. Everyone else’s anecdotal evidence bad.

Gotcha. Laughable.

Your laughable - in every thread you post in - Have you ran out of steam on the McGregor thread and now your here?

My Factual evidence is that the vintners have pressured the government and suppliers to stop any price increases for the last 6 yrs and it has worked, (apart from this year as stated) Thats a fact - Not anecdotal - Moronic post!! Those savings have been passed onto you - the consumer! Like it or not! Although I presume youd rather the price went up in every budget so you could give out more!!

But what is stopping you from dropping the price? You are touting stopping increases.

I think it sums up the thinking of the pubs. They seem to think not increasing prices is something to be lauded particularly when the starting point was so high. Yet in a disappearing market it seems price reductions are not even considered. The only market that operates in a similar way is public transport or similar.

You are faced with competition with much lower prices yet you seem totally oblivious to that.

You can go on about costs as much as you want, but you need to look at costs you can control.

VinLieger

ardinn wrote: »

Are you saying pubs are closing at a rate of 1 per day for the last 4 years as a result of overly high profit margins??

Have the VFI ever considered we simply had too many pubs? And this is simply natural market correction?

Considering alcohol consumption is down by a quarter it makes sense a quarter of pubs would be closing.......

Cookie_Monster

ardinn wrote: »

Thats not whats happening - the government is bringing in a health Bill aimed at reducing alcohol consumption, what ever way you want to dress it up or say otherwise this is what it is.

so are you going to enforce the self same health recommendations in your establishment and limit people to only 6 units at a time as a responsible business owner?

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

weldoninhio wrote: »

This is not the McGregor thread, if you want to address me about him, you know where to go.

The Soccer Forum??

weldoninhio wrote: »

Excise may not have risen, but the price of a pint has, more than once in the past 6 years. That’s what the poster you pooh poohed said, he was giving his anecdotal evidence, which i’d back up as it’s happened in my local and all over Dublin. Most people would be able to tell you that the pint has risen.

Ah, I was referring to the vintners - they dont operate in dublin - I made that clear Earlier - You should probably read the thread!

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so are you going to enforce the self same health recommendations in your establishment and limit people to only 6 units at a time as a responsible business owner?

Is that whats happening with the off licences? They are being limited as to the amount they can buy??

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

VinLieger wrote: »

Have the VFI ever considered we simply had too many pubs? And this is simply natural market correction?

Considering alcohol consumption is down by a quarter it makes sense a quarter of pubs would be closing.......

Makes perfect sense yep!

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Leroy42 wrote: »

But what is stopping you from dropping the price? You are touting stopping increases.

I think it sums up the thinking of the pubs. They seem to think not increasing prices is something to be lauded particularly when the starting point was so high. Yet in a disappearing market it seems price reductions are not even considered. The only market that operates in a similar way is public transport or similar.

You are faced with competition with much lower prices yet you seem totally oblivious to that.

You can go on about costs as much as you want, but you need to look at costs you can control.

Leroy42

How about this

We run a small business - a bar, every year we are faced with hikes in every aspect of our costs - every single one - I would hazard a guess moreso than any other industry.

Instead of increasing prices, we have absorbed these costs for years, the bottom line does not lie in this regard.

We provide a good pub - A pub that we invested heavily in, and we are entitled as business people to try and make an honest living out of it.

We provide free entertainment

We provide Free food and snacks on weekends

We provide Sky sports - A facility that costs me €7000.00 per annum.

We provide a safe pub - We run a good show, a strict house, you will not see a row in our pub. we dont tolerate it

We provide free lifts home for customers if needed. I have personally driven some patrons over 15miles away.

The pure hatred for publicans is ridiculous, fueled by jealousy of times long forgotten where pubs were little gold mines, You can say we are now crying over poor performance but go and find where I have once complained on now over 60 odd replies in this thread.

I work hard for my business, my prices are too low to be making a profit, but I still dont put them up because I realise people like you cant afford it, but Iwas born into this way of life and will probably die in it. I love it.

But i'll be fúcked if im going to listen to the pure and utter scutter spouted by some of the yokes on this thread over there dutch gold goin up €1:30 odd on their fiver!

I am entitled to make a living - or at least try to make a living - Im unsure as to why the general public are so gleeful at the downturn in pubs fortunes and the truly devastating impact on jobs around the country it will have and is having as a result,

Lastly I would like to point out this bill of legislation was drafted without any consultation with vintners or any publicans around the country. Groups that were involved or questions were MEAS, Drink Aware, and the RSA

Checkmate19

Some pubs are closing as people are not drinking as much. Alot of reasons for this but one of the main ones is cost. During the recession disposable income went down and people cut back. There's to many pubs for one. Also drink is way overpriced. If pubs want to increase business do what other business's do find new ways to compete. Lower prices doesn't seem to be on their agenda. Pubs tried for so long to stop witherspoons getting in. Go into one of them and you can see why. Pubs had it good for to long. Times change and trying to lobby on a health bill is a bit rich. I really hope this bill never see's the light of day.

ardinn

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Checkmate19 wrote: »

Some pubs are closing as people are not drinking as much. Alot of reasons for this but one of the main ones is cost. During the recession disposable income went down and people cut back. There's to many pubs for one. Also drink is way overpriced. If pubs want to increase business do what other business's do find new ways to compete. Lower prices doesn't seem to be on their agenda. Pubs tried for so long to stop witherspoons getting in. Go into one of them and you can see why. Pubs had it good for to long. Times change and trying to lobby on a health bill is a bit rich. I really hope this bill never see's the light of day.

You do realize now witherspoons buys up beer in bulk across europe that is or has just gone, or is going past it's best before.

One of the reasons Diageo will not put draught beer into their pubs is because they will not sell a poor product, a lot of people seem to think its witherspoons who dont do diageo because they are too dear - They have been refused service by diageo on about 8 occasions!

Witherspoons or wether or mayweatherspoons or whateverthe**** it is called serves a poor quality substitute at heavily discounted prices because the buy at heavily discounted prices brought on by buying up beer no-one else will sell.

Thats not an anecdote either!

Asus X540L

I was drinking pints of Abbot's Ale in Wetherspoon's last night. - they even serve it in Coronation street glasses lol. €2.75 a pint. Exactly half of what I was paying in the pub before.

Asus X540L

ardinn wrote: »

You do realize now witherspoons buys up beer in bulk across europe that is or has just gone, or is going past it's best before.

One of the reasons Diageo will not put draught beer into their pubs is because they will not sell a poor product, a lot of people seem to think its witherspoons who dont do diageo because they are too dear - They have been refused service by diageo on about 8 occasions!

Witherspoons or wether or mayweatherspoons or whateverthe**** it is called serves a poor quality substitute at heavily discounted prices because the buy at heavily discounted prices brought on by buying up beer no-one else will sell.

Thats not an anecdote either!

lol @ the Diaego comment.

They don't seem to care about all the pubs that sell Carslberg and Guinness that is absolute and utter muck. Another thing that pubs get away with murder with is the quality of the pint. You don't get it in local pubs cause the regs won't stand for it but the slop that city centre pubs sell must be downright illegal. People wake up dying and they may have a hangover but it's usually filfthy lines and detergent still in the pint glasses. A bad pint of stout can ruin your night.
Drink a good vodka at home or good German beer and you won't have anywhere near as bad a hangover.