Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

jasper100

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well there is though isn't there. You need to get a licence that already exists and as such you will need to pay the high price of the licence. Many pubs have been pubs for years and as such the cost of the licence is non existent. It is a form of entry control.

But even with this high cost of entry there are new pubs opening and surviving.

no one is saying that everything is easy for pubs, you only have to look at the number of them that are closing to realise that there is clearly an issue. The greediness claim comes from the lack of any movement to react to the changing market in the manner that normal businesses would, ie by dropping prices.

But every business has its struggles, but many of them don't have government legislation in order to reduce the effects of competition.

Go and ask the pubs, what have they done to demand lower prices from the brewers? Have they passed on the savings they get from low price supermarket alcohol. What did they do with the VAT reduction in food?

You wrongly seem to think that every pub buys all of their spirits whilst on special offer from supermarkets?

Some may do, but I would say the majority don't, the offers only come along once in a while for starters.

What has VAT on food got to do with the drinks trade?

Leroy42 wrote: »

You need to get a licence that already exists and as such you will need to pay the high price of the licence.

You can lease a bar ready to with the licence intact. No need to purchase a licence.

Given profits are so big it shouldn't be a problem coming up with the rent every week.

Leroy42

jasper100 wrote: »

You wrongly seem to think that every pub buys all of their spirits whilst on special offer from supermarkets?

Some may do, but I would say the majority don't, the offers only come along once in a while for starters.

No, you wrongly claim that that is what I said. I merely asked where the savings were from when they did. But that leads the question as to why would any pub buy product from a supplier at a higher price than it can be got somewhere else? Seems strange to not avail of potential cost savings and then complain that its hard to make money!

jasper100 wrote: »

What has VAT on food got to do with the drinks trade?

Many pubs offer food as part of the offering. As part of the help for tourism, VAT was reduced on food. Was this passed on?

jasper100 wrote: »

You can lease a bar ready to with the licence intact. No need to purchase a licence.

So you live in a world where you think a person who owns a licence will lease it to you for free?

jasper100 wrote: »

Given profits are so big it shouldn't be a problem coming up with the rent every week.

Again, nobody is claiming that every pub is creaming it, but price is not the problem if they are struggling. Consumption of alcohol continues to decline, and the share of that declining market is also falling for pubs.

But there is no doubt that pubs have been very profitable in the past and one of the main reasons for the failure of pubs is that leasing costs (including the licence) are very high based on expected returns that haven't materialised.

That is no different that plenty of retail. What is different is that instead of rising to the challenge presented to them by a changing consumer and changing competition, pubs want to force consumers back to them and reduce the effects of competition by way of legislation.

end of the road

jasper100 wrote: »

Its not the same though. Supermarkets use cheap alcohol to entice people in to buy groceries where they make their fatter profits. They use alcohol as a loss leader.

i find it hard to believe they are making a loss on it. realistically i think they are selling it at the market value.
they should be entitled to continue to sell alcohol at the market value as they are currently doing.

Leroy42

jasper100 wrote: »

Its not the same though. Supermarkets use cheap alcohol to entice people in to buy groceries where they make their fatter profits. They use alcohol as a loss leader.

But is that really any different than pubs offering free sky sports or music to entice customers in?

elperello

Eunan McKinney of Alcohol Action Ireland writing in today's Irish (Temperance) Times -

"A simple reality remains that Ireland drinks too much and if we are to make any progress on a range of public health ambitions that seek to protect all our citizens, we must strive to ensure that less alcohol is sold, and accordingly, less alcohol is consumed. And that is why this Bill is on the floor of Leinster House."

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/health-and-the-price-of-alcohol-1.3307029

Alert to publicans this HSE funded quango will not settle for reducing home drinking, you are next.

KrustyUCC

I see Mr McKinney continues to peddle the myth of cheap alacohol in Ireland

"This will ensure that cheap, strong alcohol, currently ubiquitously available throughout our supermarkets, convenience stores and small shops, cannot be sold at very cheap prices."

We already have the 4th highest alcohol prices in Europe. How exactly is that cheap?

He also doesn't explain why our consumption is decreasing with the level of 'cheap' alcohol available

elperello

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I see Mr McKinney continues to peddle the myth of cheap alacohol in Ireland

"This will ensure that cheap, strong alcohol, currently ubiquitously available throughout our supermarkets, convenience stores and small shops, cannot be sold at very cheap prices."

We already have the 4th highest alcohol prices in Europe. How exactly is that cheap?

He also doesn't explain why our consumption is decreasing with the level of 'cheap' alcohol available

Mr McKinney needs to get out more.

Nero d'Avola Shiraz 99 pence a bottle.

https://www.calaiswine.co.uk/offers/best-deals/under-2-49-wines

Shelflife

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I see Mr McKinney continues to peddle the myth of cheap alacohol in Ireland

"This will ensure that cheap, strong alcohol, currently ubiquitously available throughout our supermarkets, convenience stores and small shops, cannot be sold at very cheap prices."

We already have the 4th highest alcohol prices in Europe. How exactly is that cheap?

He also doesn't explain why our consumption is decreasing with the level of 'cheap' alcohol available

McKinny continues to quote the British Columbia example even though there's no proof that it worked.

http://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-unit-pricing-alcohol-ireland-facts-2932210-Aug2016/

Heard him on a radio interview and when he knew he was beaten with facts and common sense he stated to personally attack the other interviewee.

Came across very badly , very arrogant!

Speaking of British Columbia, I was there last year and a bottle of a standard blend Scotch was CAD$22, which is EUR 14.42.

We are already more expensive than that here.

One_Of_Shanks

elperello wrote: »

Eunan McKinney of Alcohol Action Ireland writing in today's Irish (Temperance) Times -

"A simple reality remains that Ireland drinks too much and if we are to make any progress on a range of public health ambitions that seek to protect all our citizens, we must strive to ensure that less alcohol is sold, and accordingly, less alcohol is consumed. And that is why this Bill is on the floor of Leinster House."

Well he's wrong.

It's on the floor of Leinster House to protect pubs, not our citizens.

He can peddle it whatever way he wants and I'm sure Nanny Leo will welcome his comments but that doesn't change the fact that he's wrong and this isn't about protecting citizens unless those citizens own a pub.

The saddest result of this legislation, if it is brought through, will be that there will be even less money available for the children of low-income alcoholics who are simply not going to reduce their consumption in proportion to the price increases.

Personally, I utterly despise Fine Gael for their nanny state bu'llsh'it (among many other reasons). The sugar tax that has destroyed soft drinks is another example. What riles me up even more is that they think we are all idiots who don't know what their actual motives are for bringing in these policies. Newsflash, Fine Gael - NOBODY nowadays is as ill-informed and obsequious as people were in the past and we all see through (most) politicans for what they are - concerned only with their survival as politicians so they *themselves* can have an adequately high income and social status living in this country. We don't recognise you as possessing the status you all once expected us to recognise. If this passes I would dearly love if people revolted over it.

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

The saddest result of this legislation, if it is brought through, will be that there will be even less money available for the children of low-income alcoholics who are simply not going to reduce their consumption in proportion to the price increases.

Personally, I utterly despise Fine Gael for their nanny state bu'llsh'it (among many other reasons). The sugar tax that has destroyed soft drinks is another example. What riles me up even more is that they think we are all idiots who don't know what their actual motives are for bringing in these policies. Newsflash, Fine Gael - NOBODY nowadays is as ill-informed and obsequious as people were in the past and we all see through (most) politicans for what they are - concerned only with their survival as politicians so they *themselves* can have an adequately high income and social status living in this country. We don't recognise you as possessing the status you all once expected us to recognise. If this passes I would dearly love if people revolted over it.

This 100%

I will go to France on the ferry to bring wine back, or buy spirits up north. Even if I break even I'd do it just so the little poxes don't get their grubby paws on more money.

One of the things to come out of yesterday's brexit shenanigans is that Arlene Foster has said she doesn't want any alignment either economic or political with that of the Irish Republic's.

Our MUP bill says it's introduction is delayed until it is brought in up North.

Does this mean while Ulster Says No (to everything), minimum pricing is stalled indefinitely?

elperello

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the things to come out of yesterday's brexit shenanigans is that Arlene Foster has said she doesn't want any alignment either economic or political with that of the Irish Republic's.

Our MUP bill says it's introduction is delayed until it is brought in up North.

Does this mean while Ulster Says No (to everything), minimum pricing is stalled indefinitely?

As long as there is no Legislative Assembly in Stormont MUP is on hold.

SF support MUP in the Republic so would likely support it in NI.The DUP founder Paisley was fond of describing drink as the "devil's buttermilk". The party today shows no sign of change on this issue as on many others. This link gives an idea of their thinking.
http://www.mydup.com/news/article/joint-strategy-needed-to-overcome-scourge-of-alcohol-related-crime.

If they do get Stormont up and running they will be looking for issues they can agree on that are not part of the nationalist/unionist row.

What the ordinary voter in NI will think of all this is unclear.

Sofiztikated

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the things to come out of yesterday's brexit shenanigans is that Arlene Foster has said she doesn't want any alignment either economic or political with that of the Irish Republic's.

Our MUP bill says it's introduction is delayed until it is brought in up North.

Does this mean while Ulster Says No (to everything), minimum pricing is stalled indefinitely?

Until we get a UI, and then really ****ing annoy the Nordies by saying, "Yeah, no free **** on the NHS any more, oh and by the way, see your cheap cans? Gone."

BuilderPlumber

Thankfully I am seeing some sensible articles in some papers these days recognising healthism and healthocratic neofascism. These ideiology tries to brainwash people against certain foods, etc. and towards certain industries. The sports and fitness industry lobbies are very strong and others notably the vintners see healthism as a means to an end too.

A typical person will commit a 'sin' against healthism every day. Drinking coffee, having sugar in coffee or tea, eating a biscuit or cake, relaxing at the weekend, having a few pints or glasses of wine, having a can of coke or orange, etc. are all examples of these 'sins' against healthism. Sadly, people go along with a lot of this nonsense. Self appointed 'dieticians' come up with their latest 'diets' and write books that are pushed at us. A lot of them are ironically very unhealthy.

Healthists ironically couldn't care less about people's health. Stress, negative friendships, financial worries, having to work long hours, etc. are the REAL causes of health problems and yet are seldom mentioned by this new puritanical healthism brigade. They want people to give up drinking (or drinking at home!) and to run a marathon and all will be grand.

Healthism is the future dictatorship and control mechanisms and approach to brainwashing people to follow a forced culture. I predict other threats and forced agendas such as ISIS/al Qaeda, the current hardline American regime, Brexit, modern country music, European neo-Nazism and even Mrs Brown's Boys will be gone but healthism will remain the worst threat.

elperello

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/maybe-we-should-slosh-our-way-through-the-forty-days-before-easter-too-3736823-Dec2017/

Eunan McKinney is at it again.

"Alcohol is a carcinogen, just like tobacco and asbestos."

KrustyUCC

Nice preachy article

"Perhaps we should explore a full calendar of excessiveness. Why not reinstate the ‘Seven Drunken Nights’ for any seasonal opportunity, or let’s push the boat out and slosh our way through the forty days and nights before Easter too.
All joking aside"

I don't think he is joking

I've never seen a pub give free shots for the 12 pubs of Christmas

Of course Mr McKinney does not acknowledge that consumption is down in Ireland

"When it comes to getting stocious, we are now lagging far behind the British, the French and the Germans.
Since our tipsy boom-time heyday, we have dropped from eighth to 18th in the European drinking charts"

https://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/young-people-in-ireland-are-drinking-less-alcohol-than-their-parents-and-this-could-be-the-reason-why-35831374.html

Reputable Rog

This is my local idiot Final Failure TD who told me a few weeks ago that he supports MUP because we need people back in the pubs,Babe himself in glorious HD
https://twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/939196147695992832

https://twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/939175942404046848

Cork, the fillet of Munster.

namloc1980

Reputable Rog wrote: »

This is my local idiot Final Failure TD who told me a few weeks ago that he supports MUP because we need people back in the pubs,Babe himself in glorious HD
https://twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/939196147695992832

An example why democracy is a very flawed system.

hatrickpatrick

This bill is being returned to the Seanad tomorrow for the reporting and final stage... Seems fairly likely that it will pass, leaving it to be introduced into the Dail and go through the five stages there. Supposedly there's a possibility of it passing the Dail early next week, but this seems highly unlikely to me - the pressure is now on to lobby TDs and ensure that it doesn't pass.

Annoyingly, they seem to have introduced an amendment for tomorrow's Seanad sitting which would ban the use of vouchers and the like being used to get around minimum pricing. Whether this could potentially be rejected on the grounds of things like off license loyalty cards being part of the business model I don't know, but I was serious hoping this would be a loophole they would leave open. People should pay close attention to exactly what the bill looks like after tomorrow's votes on amendments

MRnotlob606

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Commotion Ocean wrote: »

The government are set to bring in minimum alcohol pricing.

A slab of 24 cans will have a minimum price of €48 and a bottle of spirits will be a minimum of €28.

Ultimate nanny state bolloxogy and pandering again to the vitners association.

I'm on touch site, so link to follow.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1124/834033-alcohol-research-rcsi/

(Misspelling in the headline ... no surprises coming from that North Korean unionised crap rag anyway.)

This is absolute nonsense in my opinion. Even the cheapest of beers (shop own brand) will have to be sold at €2 per can (1 Euro per unit of alcohol). Naggins will be a minimum of €8, 70cl bottles will be €28, cans of beer €2 and a whopping €40 for a litre of spirits.

We are heading on a slippery slope towards a fascist Nazi-style dictatorship. Ireland is a First World country, I believe in capitalism. If someone over the legal drinking age wants to buy a can of beer at 50 cents and a shop is offering the cans at such a price, then why should a Hitler-style government stop them?

This is why I hate boards. The right wing libertarian paranoia when the government tries to step in on our behalf.

Jerichoholic

Stepping in to pocket an obscene amount of cash for themselves.

Zubeneschamali

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Stepping in to pocket an obscene amount of cash for themselves.

No, for their buddies in the drinks trade. Taking our cash and putting it in the drinks industries pockets.

weldoninhio

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

This is why I hate boards. The right wing libertarian paranoia when the government tries to step in on our behalf.

Step in on who's behalf??

Leroy42

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Stepping in to pocket an obscene amount of cash for themselves.

Only if we let them.

There really is a simple way to avoid this, simply buy less.

I know, I know, we shouldn't have to blah, blah, but it is the quickest and easiest way to get the message across.

If you normally spend €20 in offy then stick to that. Of course that means less drink but if everyone stands up against this it won't last.

No way the breweries are going to accept such a drop in the quantity being sold.

We are not toothless in this, we actually have the ultimate power.

Shelflife

We are not toothless at all, but the problem is most people will come on here and rant away rather than contact their local TDs and Senators.

The only way to stop a piece of legislation going through us to agitate loudly and through the proper channels in an organised way,

The only thing that scares politicians is the loss of lots of votes.

It’s no use moaning here, you need to get active , puck your battles and keep at it.

Reputable Rog

Shelflife wrote: »

We are not toothless at all, but the problem is most people will come on here and rant away rather than contact their local TDs and Senators.

The only way to stop a piece of legislation going through us to agitate loudly and through the proper channels in an organised way,

The only thing that scares politicians is the loss of lots of votes.

It’s no use moaning here, you need to get active , puck your battles and keep at it.

As you can see from an earlier post I did speak to Babe, one of my local TD's who thinks it's great thing, he also thinks people should drink and drive more to deter robbers.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Leroy42 wrote: »

Only if we let them.

There really is a simple way to avoid this, simply buy less.

I know, I know, we shouldn't have to blah, blah, but it is the quickest and easiest way to get the message across.

If you normally spend €20 in offy then stick to that. Of course that means less drink but if everyone stands up against this it won't last.

No way the breweries are going to accept such a drop in the quantity being sold.

We are not toothless in this, we actually have the ultimate power.

Simple answer is to cut back on pub alcohol intake and drink at home, but...

Shelflife wrote: »

We are not toothless at all, but the problem is most people will come on here and rant away rather than contact their local TDs and Senators.

The only way to stop a piece of legislation going through us to agitate loudly and through the proper channels in an organised way,

The only thing that scares politicians is the loss of lots of votes.

It’s no use moaning here, you need to get active , puck your battles and keep at it.

... we all now this is not going to happen, the government knows this, the vintners know this so MUP is on the horizon.

Shelflife

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Simple answer is to cut back on pub alcohol intake and drink at home, but...



... we all now this is not going to happen, the government knows this, the vintners know this so MUP is on the horizon.

Well if you decide to lie down then you cant complain if they walk over you.

Changes were made to the bill to the structural separation section, because people got off their arses and complained.