Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

dasdog

elperello wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/public-health-alcohol-bill-1.3389743

Senator Sean Barrett debunking MUP in today's paper.

Funny you shouold use that phrase. The minister for health recently cherry picked the 2015/16 Year on Year figure apparently proving alcholol consumption is not falling.

"Alcohol consumption in our country is not falling either. In 2015 it was at 10.9 l of pure alcohol per capita but figures from the Office of the Revenue Commissioners indicate that our consumption levels increased in 2016 to 11.46 l. Let us hope that is another myth debunked."
Source: Oireachtas.ie, 06/02/18

I spend way too much time looking at telemetry and graphs in general but the downtrend looks intact.
http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/how-much-do-we-drink

kenmc

So if they succeed in reducing consumption.... what are all the soon to be unemployed off licence, bar, chipper staff etc going to work as then? Bet they haven't thought of that conundrum, have they?

elperello

The real message in Barrett's letter is that MUP is total crock of s**t but he being a Trinity economist says it nicely.

Gunmonkey

kenmc wrote: »

So if they succeed in reducing consumption.... what are all the soon to be unemployed off licence, bar, chipper staff etc going to work as then? Bet they haven't thought of that conundrum, have they?

Prob just get a concession from the Gov to reduce their VAT rate further to only 4% or 5%.


And if they aim for home/small scale brewing then they will go on health & safety grounds (prob use that Smithwicks "Home brewers, were with ya" ad as a case study of the stuff "dangerous/unhealthy" practices home brewers get up to), and have harsher standards put in place/more stringent enforcement. Might not affect many established brands but an easy way to dissuade people trying to start up if they need to have a sterilized environment (not your garage) and almost hazmat level protective clothing. That or needing a business/designated premises to make booze in, so again your home wont cut it.

elperello

elperello wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/public-health-alcohol-bill-1.3389743

Senator Sean Barrett debunking MUP in today's paper.

Fair play to him. Sifting through all the bullsh1t we are hearing about this issue.

I mean really, rents at an all time high, available properties at a record low, hospital bed shortages, waiting lists through the roof but the government has us covered with alcohol prices.

Maybe the pub trade is declining because some people are spending half their income on their rent. Fix that issue and maybe the pub issue will sort it's self out.

falinn merking

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair play to him. Sifting through all the bullsh1t we are hearing about this issue.

I mean really, rents at an all time high, available properties at a record low, hospital bed shortages, waiting lists through the roof but the government has us covered with alcohol prices.

Maybe the pub trade is declining because some people are spending half their income on their rent. Fix that issue and maybe the pub issue will sort it's self out.

Stop with the senseable posts will you.
Common sense has no place in government policy.

kenmc

Gunmonkey wrote: »

dissuade people trying to start up if they need to have a sterilized environment (not your garage) and almost hazmat level protective clothing.

You don't need either of these

weldoninhio

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Prob just get a concession from the Gov to reduce their VAT rate further to only 4% or 5%.


And if they aim for home/small scale brewing then they will go on health & safety grounds (prob use that Smithwicks "Home brewers, were with ya" ad as a case study of the stuff "dangerous/unhealthy" practices home brewers get up to), and have harsher standards put in place/more stringent enforcement. Might not affect many established brands but an easy way to dissuade people trying to start up if they need to have a sterilized environment (not your garage) and almost hazmat level protective clothing. That or needing a business/designated premises to make booze in, so again your home wont cut it.

I'd say it will be a garda fed-newspaper led, underage drinking expose about the dangers of home brewing and the unscrupulous people selling knock off hooch to vulnerable children.

Discodog

Infuriating to hear an "expert" say that MUP will save children of alcoholic parents. She argued that alcoholics would drink less & have more money to spend on the kids.

When people called the program to complain she just said the mantra that "international experience proves this ".

Gunmonkey

Discodog wrote: »

Infuriating to hear an "expert" say that MUP will save children of alcoholic parents. She argued that alcoholics would drink less & have more money to spend on the kids.

When people called the program to complain she just said the mantra that "international experience proves this ".

Whut? Some expert if she cant understand alcohol being more expensive means the parents will drink less but pay the same...or drink the same and pay more!

This the same "international experience" where most drinks are far cheaper in Europe but those countries generally drink less than us?

Discodog

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Whut? Some expert if she cant understand alcohol being more expensive means the parents will drink less but pay the same...or drink the same and pay more!

This the same "international experience" where most drinks are far cheaper in Europe but those countries generally drink less than us?

It was during Ciara Kelly's lunchtime show on Newstalk. She is leading a campaign to support the bill & gets two hours every day to spout about it.

elperello

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Prob just get a concession from the Gov to reduce their VAT rate further to only 4% or 5%.


And if they aim for home/small scale brewing then they will go on health & safety grounds (prob use that Smithwicks "Home brewers, were with ya" ad as a case study of the stuff "dangerous/unhealthy" practices home brewers get up to), and have harsher standards put in place/more stringent enforcement. Might not affect many established brands but an easy way to dissuade people trying to start up if they need to have a sterilized environment (not your garage) and almost hazmat level protective clothing. That or needing a business/designated premises to make booze in, so again your home wont cut it.

Just because of that ad I won't buy any of the Smithwicks products.
The so called smart marketing guys have outsmarted themselves.

Gunmonkey

Discodog wrote: »

It was during Ciara Kelly's lunchtime show on Newstalk. She is leading a campaign to support the bill & gets two hours every day to spout about it.

Great: so RTE is just a station to keep the higher earners (and their relatives) funded in cocaine, Newstalk is a lobbyist platform...

Which of the remaining main radio stations is run by the lizard people, which is being broadcast from an alternate dimension and which has a signal that originates from a haunted building thats been abandoned for 10 years!!

hatrickpatrick

I'm out at the moment so I can't watch the debate but just had a quick glance, Dàil business commenced at 5.30 today and concludes around 10PM, they're still on the first item (the second stage of the employment bill, I believe specifically to deal with zero hour contracts) and so it's very possible that they won't get to the alcohol bill today or have time to finish he second stage if they do. It's scheduled for directly after the employment bill but with just under two hours left of today's sitting, it's starting to look like there'll be no movement today.

Thank f*ck for an inefficient and slow moving parliament eh

Grandeeod

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm out at the moment so I can't watch the debate but just had a quick glance, Dàil business commenced at 5.30 today and concludes around 10PM, they're still on the first item (the second stage of the employment bill, I believe specifically to deal with zero hour contracts) and so it's very possible that they won't get to the alcohol bill today or have time to finish he second stage if they do. It's scheduled for directly after the employment bill but with just under two hours left of today's sitting, it's starting to look like there'll be no movement today.

Thank f*ck for an inefficient and slow moving parliament eh

Off to the Dail Bar.:D

McMurphy

Newstalk just now....

Pat Kenny "coming up on this morning's show... €8k a week..... the costs involved in just keeping a rural pub open".....

:eek:


Tune in cos this is gonna make interesting listening.

Leroy42

Sounds like things are doing fine. 6% growth YOY.

CastielJ

high price on alcohol will not limit the drinkers, it's a nonsense

elperello

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Newstalk just now....

Pat Kenny "coming up on this morning's show... €8k a week..... the costs involved in just keeping a rural pub open".....

:eek:


Tune in cos this is gonna make interesting listening.

I think their point was that 8k per week turnover was necessary to make a pub viable but they were allowing for loan repayments. A lot of rural pubs would be nowhere near that figure.

elperello

CastielJ wrote: »

high price on alcohol will not limit the drinkers, it's a nonsense

Even if it would limit problem drinkers it's still a nonsense.

Leroy42

The point is that the report paints a relatively strong position. With a significant shift to food and other options that consumers want.

Of course there are pubs that will not/cannot meet these new demands and will not be able to generate the level of turnover to make it worthwhile, but that is the same in every industry.

pilly

elperello wrote:

I think their point was that 8k per week turnover was necessary to make a pub viable but they were allowing for loan repayments. A lot of rural pubs would be nowhere near that figure.

There are very few real businesses that could survive on 8k turnover a week so I think it actually goes to show the high mark up on drink.

BuilderPlumber

Another way of looking at this is that this stupid legislation is a complete waste of time. There are more important concerns such as Brexit, poor governance in America and its impact here, crime and terrorism, the slow recovery of the economy, rural Ireland and its future, and so on. Take your pick. In fact, this stupid legislation damages business and does not do anything for health despite all the hypocritical health Taliban and what they say.

Another factor here is expensive established brands do not like Tesco, Lidl, etc. producing beers, wines and spirits that are the same, maybe better and cheaper than theirs. Big business lobbies once again. The Dail should have more pressing concerns than even giving this drivel 1 second. It should be fired out and then move on to some more important topic.

BuilderPlumber

elperello wrote: »

I think their point was that 8k per week turnover was necessary to make a pub viable but they were allowing for loan repayments. A lot of rural pubs would be nowhere near that figure.

There is no way any rural pub would make 8000 in sales. Even if we had this scenario:

Mon-Wed they have 10 customers who drink 10 pints at 4.5 = 10*4.5*10*3 = 1350.
Thursday they have 15 customers who drink 12 pints at 4.5 = 810.
Fri-Sun they have 40 customers who drink 20 pints at 4.5 = 3600.
Total = 5760.

This would be totally unrealistic and requires a lot of people over the week who drink to excess! More realistically in many places, a lot of rural pubs have around 9 or 10 people going into them regularly. And drinking maybe between 3-8 pints a night.

Zubeneschamali

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

There is no way any rural pub would make 8000 in sales.

The numbers are supposing the pub changed hands in the boom and the publican owes the banks a kings ransom. Those pubs have mostly gone broke already.

The pubs that are open are the ones that have reopened with more realistic finance, or the ones that did not change hands for monopoly money.

hatrickpatrick

I didn't have a chance to tune in to the Oreachtas stream at all over the last two days, does anyone know if the second stage was concluded last night or if the bill will have to come back to the full Dail again before the committee stage?

On a side note, the Oireachtas website really is appallingly slow about updating the status of bills and publishing the following week's schedule...

McMurphy

Discodog wrote: »

It was during Ciara Kelly's lunchtime show on Newstalk. She is leading a campaign to support the bill & gets two hours every day to spout about it.

Lol, good auld Newstalk they're so consistent.

Clara Kelly championing the bill "and the dangers of cheap booze from nasty offlicense"

Sean Moncrief show (which immediately airs after Kellys) just announced rust their shows new sponsor is "carry out - Ireland's largest independent offlicense"


I nearly crashed the car:pac:

pilly

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I didn't have a chance to tune in to the Oreachtas stream at all over the last two days, does anyone know if the second stage was concluded last night or if the bill will have to come back to the full Dail again before the committee stage?

On a side note, the Oireachtas website really is appallingly slow about updating the status of bills and publishing the following week's schedule...

Are you seriously that worried about this bill?

pilly

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Lol, good auld Newstalk they're so consistent.

Clara Kelly championing the bill "and the dangers of cheap booze from nasty offlicense"

Sean Moncrief show (which immediately airs after Kellys) just announced rust their shows new sponsor is "carry out - Ireland's largest independent offlicense"


I nearly crashed the car:pac:

Moncrief has always done booze and movies on a Friday. Bugs the crap out of me, I just turn it off.

One_Of_Shanks

Sure who gives a toss about Newstalk and Moncrief?

I seriously doubt Moncrief gives a crap about the bill.

It was in Fine Gael's manifesto that THEY would do whatever it took to help pubs and its they who created this.

So it lands with them and maybe you might get somewhere taking it up with them but Newstalk are only passing it on and no amount of complaining about newstalk will get anyone anywhere.

Voicing concerns/opinions to TD's serves a purpose. Complaining about Newstalk serves none.