Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

VinLieger

Ipso wrote: »

Scotland has more common sense benefits of Brexit to look forward to.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/irn-bru-recipe-change-low-sugar-production-latest-a8152636.html

They also have some serious issues to worry about https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5724833/post-brexit-trade-deals-us-firms-cornish-pasties-scotch-whisky-britain/

hatrickpatrick

Bollocks. It's passed the second stage and been referred to the committee on health. Seems unlikely that it'll get any sort of balanced hearing there, I'd imagine that committee is full of puritans :mad:

Unicrons Dad

Deleted User wrote: »

The cost wont go up in the Dáil bar me thinks somehow

Cost in the dail bar ? There's no charge there at all from what I heard

KrustyUCC

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Bollocks. It's passed the second stage and been referred to the committee on health. Seems unlikely that it'll get any sort of balanced hearing there, I'd imagine that committee is full of puritans :mad:

At least it won't come in until Northern Ireland gets a government which won't be anytime soon

Also European countries are not happy with various aspects of the Bill so hopefully a bit of pressure will be put on the Government at EU level

KrustyUCC

I don't think this will matter to the government but

New figures suggest alcohol consumption in Ireland continues to decline

New figures from the Revenue Commissioners suggest that alcohol consumption in Ireland fell in 2017.

The latest figures on alcohol consumptions from Revenues clearance data show that the average per adult consumption of alcohol in 2017 declined by approximately 1.4%.

This continues a long-running trend of alcohol consumption falling in Ireland.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-figures-suggest-alcohol-consumption-in-ireland-continues-to-decline-831208.html

Alcohol levels continue to fall yet the governemnt want to double the price for all users under MUP

VinLieger

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I don't think this will matter to the government but

New figures suggest alcohol consumption in Ireland continues to decline

New figures from the Revenue Commissioners suggest that alcohol consumption in Ireland fell in 2017.

The latest figures on alcohol consumptions from Revenues clearance data show that the average per adult consumption of alcohol in 2017 declined by approximately 1.4%.

This continues a long-running trend of alcohol consumption falling in Ireland.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-figures-suggest-alcohol-consumption-in-ireland-continues-to-decline-831208.html

Alcohol levels continue to fall yet the governemnt want to double the price for all users under MUP

Of course facts don't matter, when it comes to alcohol its all about the optics as far as politicians are concerned.

Everyone knows that adjusting closing hours so everyone isnt spilling into the streets at the same time would make sense, but no politician wants to defend increasing opening hours to the pious, big brother, college of physicians.

Hiding booze behind curtains is a simple stupid solution that on the very very retarded surface of the idea makes sense but if you dig even a tiny bit deeper is obviously moronic in the extreme, but again no politician want to be seen arguing against the actual reality of the idea.

Discodog

Ciara Kelly Newstalk just implied that the reduction has been publicised now deliberately to try & derail the bill.

I emailed this weeks ago but she won't comment

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4899823/moderate-drinker-alcohol-health-benefits

VinLieger

Discodog wrote: »

Ciara Kelly Newstalk just implied that the reduction has been publicised now deliberately to try & derail the bill.

I emailed this weeks ago but she won't comment

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4899823/moderate-drinker-alcohol-health-benefits

She is a disgrace, her show is literally a real world version of helen lovejoy constantly refraining "think of the children, think of the children"

facehugger99

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Alcohol levels continue to fall yet the governemnt want to double the price for all users under MUP

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Leroy42

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Alcohol levels continue to fall yet the governemnt want to double the price for all users under MUP

What is the split of off-licence sales against on?

The MUP is not going to effect on-trade prices so I think we need to see breakdown of what it will actually impact.

Given the government are pushing this, would I be right to assume that they have already undertaken such a study and also into the % of the off-licence sales that are currently under the proposed MUP prices.

KrustyUCC

facehugger99 wrote: »

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Grand might not be double but pretty large increase over over 50% in a lot of cases

Let's take some examples of costs to everybody after MUP
Graffenwalder can in Lidl. 500 ml * 4.8% *0.789 * 0.10
Currently €1.15

Will increase to €1.89 minimum

That is a 64.53% increase thanks to the Government

That same can same product is 0.39c in Spain

So we will be paying 384.61% more for the same product

Nobody will convince me that the same can will do almost 4 times the same damage when in Ireland as opposed to Spain


Queen Margot 700ml whiskey at 40% is €9.99 in Germany
Currently 15.29 here

That same bottle will now need to be €22.09 over here
Another 44.47 increase thanks to the Government
Is that same product magically twice as harmful over here than in Germany?

Take Vodka in Aldi or Lidl or Tesco
700 ml * 37.5% *0.789 * 0.10 = €20.71 minimum for a bottle of vodka
Currently 12.99
59.43% in price thanks to the Government

Take a can of cider 6%
500ml x 0.06 *.789 *10 = 2.37
Currently 1.50
58% increase thanks to the Government

Those increase will be for everybody not only those who abuse alcohol

Every time you want to buy 1 can the increase is distortionate

In just thos examples we have increases of 64.53% or 384.61% more than same product in Spain
44.47% and 121% of the price of the same product in Germany
59.43% in the case of vodka and 58% in the case of cider

ohnonotgmail

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is the split of off-licence sales against on?

The MUP is not going to effect on-trade prices so I think we need to see breakdown of what it will actually impact.

Given the government are pushing this, would I be right to assume that they have already undertaken such a study and also into the % of the off-licence sales that are currently under the proposed MUP prices.

if you can find such a study i would love to see it.

listermint

facehugger99 wrote: »

Hyperbolic nonsense.

This bill,

I know, what a load of nonsense it is. Can you imagine doing something like this with no data to backup what you are saying just hyperbolic nonsense from some useless politicians backed by a lobbying organisation

KrustyUCC

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is the split of off-licence sales against on?

The MUP is not going to effect on-trade prices so I think we need to see breakdown of what it will actually impact.

Given the government are pushing this, would I be right to assume that they have already undertaken such a study and also into the % of the off-licence sales that are currently under the proposed MUP prices.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if you can find such a study i would love to see it.

+1

I really doubt they have bothered doing that as it's all about supporting the pubs from Fine Gael

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as
a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice
of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol
consumption and the viability of pubs.

http://michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/docs/fg/Fine%20Gael%20GE%202011.pdf

Geuze

Deleted User wrote: »

The cost wont go up in the Dáil bar me thinks somehow

Prices for alcohol in pubs won't change at all.

elperello

listermint wrote: »

This bill,

I know, what a load of nonsense it is. Can you imagine doing something like this with no data to backup what you are saying just hyperbolic nonsense from some useless politicians backed by a lobbying organisation

A lobbying organisation that they pay to lobby them into the bargain.
Nonsense on a whole new level.

Mr. teddywinkles

VinLieger wrote: »

Of course facts don't matter, when it comes to alcohol its all about the optics as far as politicians are concerned.

Everyone knows that adjusting closing hours so everyone isnt spilling into the streets at the same time would make sense, but no politician wants to defend increasing opening hours to the pious, big brother, college of physicians.

Hiding booze behind curtains is a simple stupid solution that on the very very retarded surface of the idea makes sense but if you dig even a tiny bit deeper is obviously moronic in the extreme, but again no politician want to be seen arguing against the actual reality of the idea.

If this passes the gob****es will probably claim in a year or two after that the reduction in consumption is due to it. Gob****es of the highest order.

hatrickpatrick

Well I've just put together my first homebrew ale kit, waiting to bottle it in a week and then it'll be of drinkable age on (hehehe) Good Friday of all days

Cost me €55 for this first brew of 40 pints, but now that I own all the equipment which was a good chunk of the initial price, I believe such a batch costs around €20 if you're just talking about ingredients and bottle caps. Obviously will have to refrain from recycling empties from now on

Seriously though, I can easily see young people in particular getting massively into this if minimum pricing ends up being enacted. Despite being told by many people in this thread and elsewhere, I genuinely couldn't get over just how easy the process of brewing actually was (famous last words, spoken before tasting the results of course )

It was very clear from the points made in the Dáil during the Stage Two debate that the TDs are primarily interested in targeting young people and pre-drinking culture with these laws. Someone actually made a point "I don't know why young people are buying beer and meeting up to drink it before going out..." - maybe because in Dublin City, unless you go to a club on a weeknight, you're expected to fork over anywhere between €5 and €7 for a pint which is massively beyond most students' budgets to do on anything but a rare special occasion. But of course, they're not actually interested in analysing the causes of this. I'm genuinely amazed that this was phrased as a rhetorical question when the answer - exorbitant price rises in pubs, in turn fuelled by spiralling rates, rents, and taxes - is blindingly obvious to anyone who stops and thinks about it for more than a couple of minutes.

Does anyone else think that selling "kits" - pre-made ingredient packs containing all of the grain extract, yeast, and sugar required to make one's own beer - might easily replace the cheapest "€1 a can" offerings in off licenses if and when this law is enacted? It would be extremely difficult to regulate or police that, because all of the relevant ingredients have "legitimate" uses in cooking and food preparation contexts, and I doubt any government would touch that with a barge pole, under the guise of public health or not.

elperello

This was discussed earlier in the thread and apparently fun is to be banned under this misbegotten Bill.

elperello

No it won't reach quite that far as they would be private functions.

However when the bride and her bridesmaids go to the hairdresser to get ready for the big day the hairdresser won't be allowed to give them a glass of bubbly.

VinLieger

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Well I've just put together my first homebrew ale kit, waiting to bottle it in a week and then it'll be of drinkable age on (hehehe) Good Friday of all days

Cost me €55 for this first brew of 40 pints, but now that I own all the equipment which was a good chunk of the initial price, I believe such a batch costs around €20 if you're just talking about ingredients and bottle caps. Obviously will have to refrain from recycling empties from now on

Seriously though, I can easily see young people in particular getting massively into this if minimum pricing ends up being enacted. Despite being told by many people in this thread and elsewhere, I genuinely couldn't get over just how easy the process of brewing actually was (famous last words, spoken before tasting the results of course )

Welcome to the club!

Indeed its the initial gear that costs the money but you easily make that make by the 2nd or 3rd batch.

Once i get enough bottles i think ill be doing a new batch of wine, we can make enough for 30 bottles in 2 weeks and the kit which is all we need to buy breaks down to about 50cent a bottle.

dasdog

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Well I've just put together my first homebrew ale kit, waiting to bottle it in a week and then it'll be of drinkable age on (hehehe) Good Friday of all days

Good stuff though bottling really is a pain in the arse, you'll find out :pac: Conditioning i.e. leaving it age, makes a huge difference...you'll notice that one month after Good Friday. And some people become a bit obsessed. That's when price goes out the window and you go from kits to extract to all grain trying to out do the previous batch each time with custom recipes. It's a great hobby though.

Ipso

dasdog wrote: »

Good stuff though bottling really is a pain in the arse, you'll find out :pac: Conditioning i.e. leaving it age, makes a huge difference...you'll notice that one month after Good Friday. And some people become a bit obsessed. That's when price goes out the window and you go from kits to extract to all grain trying to out do the previous batch each time with custom recipes. It's a great hobby though.

Buy an auto siphon, saves getting a mouthful of beer from your fermenter.

dasdog

Ipso wrote: »

Buy an auto siphon, saves getting a mouthful of beer from your fermenter.

Wouldn't attempt it without using one...or a table top bottler. More inferring the cleaning/sterilisation and drying of forty plus 500ml bottles isn't much fun. I'll dedicate a fridge at some stage and go down the kegging route.

Not a done deal if this Irish Times piece is to be believed. European Commission could yet force changes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eu-issued-warning-to-government-over-alcohol-bill-1.3463775

Graces7

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Reading even part of this thread has cured my insomnia.. yyyyyyyaaawwwwwwwnnnn;)

gctest50

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

If this passes the gob****es will probably claim in a year or two after that the reduction in consumption is due to it. Gob****es of the highest order.

When all along moar drink is the answer :

Checkmate19

See the dail boys are finally going to pay for their drinks. Loads written off as no hope of getting it. What a shower. Fine Gael had as one of their promises is to protect pubs. Pubs lobbied for this. Its nothing to do with health this bill only trying to get people back into pubs paying over the top prices.

Fine Gael are just punishing people who enjoy a casual drink at home. If they wanted to do real things on drink why not ban ads. Stop letting drink be associated with sport. But doing that would upset to many in high places. This bill is a total joke. While td's have been enjoying cheaper drink that some where not even paying for they are going to punish people who mostly are not problem drinkers. I hope people fight this bill as its a farce.

elperello

As for the Dail bar I can't see why they don't just register their credit card as a regular user of the bar. Then they sign the receipt and the bar gets paid. Too simple I suppose.

BuilderPlumber

I notice in the papers all the time this constant badmouthing of alcohol. One of the latest 'gems' is 5 pints of beer a week causing all types of heart conditions and knocking years off one's life. If some church was saying this, 99% of the people would be crying Taliban and religious extremism but healthocratic killjoys sadly are believed because they are doctors. They are in fact doctors writing tripe because they were no good at the practical part of their profession or are too lazy to bother. Being a real doctor is not glamorous at all but writing biased agenda ridden 'research' with spurious correlation is as cushy as it gets. Write this tripe and then they go out and buy most likely ............ alcohol for themselves!!