Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Fr Tod Umptious

odyssey06 wrote: »

Very little difference in smoking rates between Spain and Ireland but cigarettes are twice the price here.

https://www.independent.ie/business/budget/revealed-the-countries-where-you-can-get-cigarettes-for-less-than-1-35127584.html

But smoking rates in Ireland have plummeted in the past few decades, here is just one piece on it.

Teenage smoking rate drops 28% in 20 years.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teenage-smoking-rate-drops-by-28-470194.html

CerebralCortex

https://neq1.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/explanations-for-drug-war/

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But smoking rates in Ireland have plummeted in the past few decades, here is just one piece on it.

Teenage smoking rate drops 28% in 20 years.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teenage-smoking-rate-drops-by-28-470194.html

Coreallation =/= causation as well you know, and nothing to do with MUP.

So. Again. Define problem, prove problem and list how solution resolves problem. Because without that, there is no argument for MUP.

odyssey06

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But smoking rates in Ireland have plummeted in the past few decades, here is just one piece on it.

Teenage smoking rate drops 28% in 20 years.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teenage-smoking-rate-drops-by-28-470194.html

So what? They plummetted in Spain in the same period yet cigarettes are twice the price here.

facehugger99

There's way too much cheap alcohol around.

I remember when I was in college and the cheapest bottle of wine you could get in an off-license was around £10.

Fast-forward 20 years and despite inflation and switching to the euro you can now buy bottles of wine in Lidl or Aldi for around €5.

It's much the same for spirits with the discounters regularly selling 700ml bottles of cheap spirits for €15.

People comparing our prices to those on the Continent need to get their heads out of their arses and take a trip through temple bar on a regular Saturday where the you see hordes of young teenagers off their tits on cheap alcohol.

We have a real fcuking problem with alcohol in this country.

Will minimum pricing solve it? Not on its own it won't but we need to start pricing the kids out of the market before they become prblem drinkers and fcuk thier lives up.

If Johnny Cheapslab has to pay a bit extra for his disgusting larger in the supermarket then that's a price I'm willing for him to pay.

Bunch of fcukin moaners in this country when their cheap-alcohol lifestyle comes under threat - wake ta fcuk up and look at the bigger picture!

VinLieger

facehugger99 wrote: »

There's way too much cheap alcohol around.

I remember when I was in college and the cheapest bottle of wine you could get in an off-license was around £10.

Fast-forward 20 years and despite inflation and switching to the euro you can now buy bottles of wine in Lidl or Aldi for around €5.

It's much the same for spirits with the discounters regularly selling 700ml bottles of cheap spirits for €15.

People comparing our prices to those on the Continent need to get their heads out of their arses and take a trip through temple bar on a regular Saturday where the you see hordes of young teenagers off their tits on cheap alcohol.

We have a real fcuking problem with alcohol in this country.

Will minimum pricing solve it? Not on its own it won't but we need to start pricing the kids out of the market before they become prblem drinkers and fcuk thier lives up.

If Johnny Cheapslab has to pay a bit extra for his disgusting larger in the supermarket then that's a price I'm willing for him to pay.

Bunch of fcukin moaners in this country when their cheap-alcohol lifestyle comes under threat - wake ta fcuk up and look at the bigger picture!

So cheap alcohol is a problem and yet consumption has dropped pretty much year on year since 2005? Not one person pro MUP has managed to adequately explain that yet or even address it tbh as it goes completely against their uninformed narrative.

odyssey06

facehugger99 wrote: »

There's way too much cheap alcohol around.

I remember when I was in college and the cheapest bottle of wine you could get in an off-license was around £10.

Fast-forward 20 years and despite inflation and switching to the euro you can now buy bottles of wine in Lidl or Aldi for around €5.

It's much the same for spirits with the discounters regularly selling 700ml bottles of cheap spirits for €15.

People comparing our prices to those on the Continent need to get their heads out of their arses and take a trip through temple bar on a regular Saturday where the you see hordes of young teenagers off their tits on cheap alcohol.

We have a real fcuking problem with alcohol in this country.

Will minimum pricing solve it? Not on its own it won't but we need to start pricing the kids out of the market before they become prblem drinkers and fcuk thier lives up.

If Johnny Cheapslab has to pay a bit extra for his disgusting larger in the supermarket then that's a price I'm willing for him to pay.

Bunch of fcukin moaners in this country when their cheap-alcohol lifestyle comes under threat - wake ta fcuk up and look at the bigger picture!

I remember student nights out in the 90s when pints were under 2 quid.
Argument (if you can call this moany load of anecdotes that) refuted.

Fr Tod Umptious

odyssey06 wrote: »

So what? They plummetted in Spain in the same period yet cigarettes are twice the price here.

Do you have a link to that?

What is the price difference in Spain now compared to 30 years ago?

Over the past 30 years or so the prevalence of smoking in Ireland has dropped dramatically due primarily to the following factors in, no particular order

1. Visibility. There is no tobacco advertising, there is no tobacco visibility in the shops or outside the shops.
2. Bans on smoking in workplaces and public places.
3. Education. We are now know far more about the effects of smoking now than we did then.
4. Pricing. Duty on tobacco has increased and increased over the years.

The same can be the case for alcohol if the same measures are introduced.

And it’s not about the current problem drinkers, it’s about trying to reduce the numbers of problem drinkers in the future.

The higher the entry price the less likely people are going to start drinking.

The less visibility the less people will grow up knowing about alcohol brands and the less they will associate them with fun events like sports and concerts.

MUP as it currently stands is a joke, as it only effects off sales and not all sales of alcohol.

VinLieger

odyssey06 wrote: »

I remember student nights out in the 90s when pints were 2 euros.
Argument (if you can call this moany load of anecdotes that) refuted.

Indeed I remember mid 2000's when pints were 3 euro

The Bollocks

What a crock of ****. The government dont give a flying **** about the health of the public,they just want to make as much tax off it as possible. The same as smokes,
Go and ask my bollocks.

odyssey06

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Do you have a link to that?

What is the price difference in Spain now compared to 30 years ago?

Over the past 30 years or so the prevalence of smoking in Ireland has dropped dramatically due primarily to the following factors in, no particular order

1. Visibility. There is no tobacco advertising, there is no tobacco visibility in the shops or outside the shops.
2. Bans on smoking in workplaces and public places.
3. Education. We are now know far more about the effects of smoking now than we did then.
4. Pricing. Duty on tobacco has increased and increased over the years.

The same can be the case for alcohol if the same measures are introduced.

And it’s not about the current problem drinkers, it’s about trying to reduce the numbers of problem drinkers in the future.

The higher the entry price the less likely people are going to start drinking.

The less visibility the less people will grow up knowing about alcohol brands and the less they will associate them with fun events like sports and concerts.

MUP as it currently stands is a joke, as it only effects off sales and not all sales of alcohol.

_Spain has achieved progress in reducing tobacco consumption over the past decade, with rates of daily smokers among adults coming down 32% in 2001 to 24% in 2011_
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/Briefing-Note-SPAIN-2014.pdf

I don't know what the price differential is versus 30 years ago, but you are arguing that high prices reduce smoking. But this argument doesn't stand up if Spain's rates dropped by the same as Ireland and their prices are half the prices of ours.

When I grew up Benson & Hedges sponsored snooker, drinks companies sponsored lots of events. I didn't start smoking, and my choice of first drink had nothing to do with who was sponsoring the All Ireland. I really don't think much of the 'visibility' argument whatsoever.

VinLieger

The Bollocks wrote: »

What a crock of ****. The government dont give a flying **** about the health of the public,they just want to make as much tax off it as possible. The same as smokes,
Go and ask my bollocks.

Its not a tax, the government get nothing from it in taxes



Can someone else take the next one of these?

facehugger99

odyssey06 wrote: »

I remember student nights out in the 90s when pints were under 2 quid.
Argument (if you can call this moany load of anecdotes that) refuted.

Do you remember being able to buy a bottle of vodka in an off-license for £7 or a bottle of 14% wine for £2.20?
That's what today's prices equate to back then.


You think today's 15 years olds are sinking pints of porter in Grogans?

Argument refuted? You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

VinLieger

facehugger99 wrote: »

Argument refuted? You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Pot.kettle.black, what about our falling consumption rates for the past 13 years?

ohnonotgmail

facehugger99 wrote: »

Do you remember being able to buy a bottle of vodka in an off-license for £7 or a bottle of 14% wine for £2.20?
That's what today's prices equate to back then.


You think today's 15 years olds are sinking pints of porter in Grogans?

Argument refuted? You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I remember paying a punt for a can of lager in the 1980s. and it was LCL pils at that which was the cheap stuff. The CSO tells me that is the equivalent of €2.50 today. The price made absolutely no difference to when i started to drink. To think otherwise is to show you dont understand alcohol at all.

facehugger99

VinLieger wrote: »

Pot.kettle.black, what about our falling consumption rates for the past 13 years?

So what?

The problem is young people having access to cheap alcohol not overall consumption levels

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The price made absolutely no difference to when i started to drink. To think otherwise is to show you dont understand alcohol at all.

Well I guess you must have been one of those millionaire teenagers if price had no bearing on you - I doubt this is very reflective of the experience of most young people so I'll file your anecdote under 'irrelevant'

odyssey06

facehugger99 wrote: »

Do you remember being able to buy a bottle of vodka in an off-license for £7 or a bottle of 14% wine for £2.20?
That's what today's prices equate to back then.

You think today's 15 years olds are sinking pints of porter in Grogans?

Argument refuted? You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I don't remember many 15 year olds in my day buying a full bottle of vodka or wine. Beer and naggins it was and you are completely ignoring multiple comments re: price of beer and cider.

It's already illegal for 15 years olds to buy alcohol. Isn't it a bad thing if they are getting access to alcohol, full stop? Instead you are trying to use price to reduce their consumption to a slightly lower level? Bonkers.

Maybe we could enforce that the law on underage drinking instead of trying to see if a price increase will drive them out of the market?

Probably they'd be better off with a pint or glass of wine in Grogans than knacker drinking no?

hank scorpio89

What a country honestly what's the point anymore you can't enjoy anything.the pubs are some of the most expensive in the world.so if you aren't on big money and you want to get a few cheap beers or a bottle of wine tough sh*t.I suppose once your a politician and money is no issue your expensive wine and hipster ales will do you no harm.nothing to do with health also not for extra tax it's just a we don't care it won't affect us and it makes us look good!in actually hate this country dirty scum ridden overpriced corrupt kip!.

kunst nugget

facehugger99 wrote: »

Do you remember being able to buy a bottle of vodka in an off-license for £7 or a bottle of 14% wine for £2.20?
That's what today's prices equate to back then.


You think today's 15 years olds are sinking pints of porter in Grogans?

Argument refuted? You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

We used to buy bottles of champagne cider for £1.50 back in our college days. 2 of them had you absolutely gee-eyed.

VinLieger

facehugger99 wrote: »

So what?

The problem is young people having access to cheap alcohol not overall consumption levels

So What? Those are the facts, consumption is down and you still want to punish young people because they might like to go out and enjoy themselves?


You are looking to design social policy on your own personal opinions and bias which is a ridiculous way to do it.

ohnonotgmail

facehugger99 wrote: »

So what?

The problem is young people having access to cheap alcohol not overall consumption levels




Well I guess you must have been one of those millionaire teenagers if price had no bearing on you - I doubt this is very reflective of the experience of most young people so I'll file your anecdote under 'irrelevant'

No the problem is that you think there is a correlation between cheap alcohol and problem drinking. alcohol is cheaper now than when i started drinking and yet people are drinking less.

Deebles McBeebles

VinLieger wrote: »

Its not a tax, the government get nothing from it in taxes



Can someone else take the next one of these?

Where will the extra money made from upping the price of alcohol/tobacco go then?

ohnonotgmail

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Where will the extra money made from upping the price of alcohol/tobacco go then?

to the off licences and distributors.

facehugger99

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't remember many 15 year olds in my day buying a full bottle of vodka or wine.

Yep - they couldn't afford it. Price them back out of the market.

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's already illegal for 15 years olds to buy alcohol. Isn't it a bad thing if they are getting access to alcohol, full stop?

Yes

odyssey06 wrote: »

Instead you are trying to use price to reduce their consumption to a slightly lower level? Bonkers.

Who said anything about 'slightly'?

odyssey06 wrote: »

Maybe we could enforce that the law on underage drinking instead of trying to see if a price increase will drive them out of the market?

Let's try both - young people will be by far the most sensitive to a price increase.

If a few snowflakes have to miss out their cheap slabs of larger as a result, I'm more than happy with that.

Deebles McBeebles

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

to the off licences and distributors.

Not a penny of it goes to the government's coffers? I find that impossible to believe.

ohnonotgmail

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Not a penny of it goes to the government's coffers? I find that impossible to believe.

Believe what you like. It is a fact.

Deebles McBeebles

facehugger99 wrote: »

If a few snowflakes have to miss out their cheap slabs of larger as a result, I'm more than happy with that.

Its lager, I'm not a "snowflake" and I'm not too happy having to pay over the odds for something I enjoy in my spare time because other people can't handle it and the government wants to look good in the eyes of your so called "snowflakes".

More nanny state nonsense.

Deebles McBeebles

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Believe what you like. It is a fact.

Proof or just take your word?

KrustyUCC

facehugger99 wrote: »

There's way too much cheap alcohol around.

I remember when I was in college and the cheapest bottle of wine you could get in an off-license was around £10.

Fast-forward 20 years and despite inflation and switching to the euro you can now buy bottles of wine in Lidl or Aldi for around €5.

It's much the same for spirits with the discounters regularly selling 700ml bottles of cheap spirits for €15.

People comparing our prices to those on the Continent need to get their heads out of their arses and take a trip through temple bar on a regular Saturday where the you see hordes of young teenagers off their tits on cheap alcohol.

We have a real fcuking problem with alcohol in this country.

Will minimum pricing solve it? Not on its own it won't but we need to start pricing the kids out of the market before they become prblem drinkers and fcuk thier lives up.

If Johnny Cheapslab has to pay a bit extra for his disgusting larger in the supermarket then that's a price I'm willing for him to pay.

Bunch of fcukin moaners in this country when their cheap-alcohol lifestyle comes under threat - wake ta fcuk up and look at the bigger picture!

Where is this cheap alcohol you speak of?

We are amongst the most expensive in Europe price wise

Cheap alcohol is a myth in this country

Problem is that you are increasing price for every person in the country even responsible drinkers

facehugger99

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Where is this cheap alcohol you speak of?

Clue is in the post - try re-reading.