Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

oceanman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That too.

Smoking levels in this country were reduced by higher prices, less visibility and better education.

But it took 30 years.

You can do the same with alcohol.

you are forgetting about the huge black market in illegally imported cigarettes in this country now, every second person who smokes are using them and the government are loosing out on millions...given the low price booze can be bought for on the continent the same thing will happen here with alcohol..once there is a significant price difference the market will be filled you can be sure of that.

Fr Tod Umptious

oceanman wrote: »

you are forgetting about the huge black market in illegally imported cigarettes in this country now, every second person who smokes are using them and the government are loosing out on millions...given the low price booze can be bought for on the continent the same thing will happen here with alcohol..once there is a significant price difference the market will be filled you can be sure of that.

I'm not forgetting the black market.

It certainly exists

But the evidence that smoking has declined dramatically in this country over the past decades is irrefutable, regardless of the existence of the black market.

I however don't think any government would ever be as hard on the drinks industry as previous governments have been on the tobacco industry, the lobby is far stronger.

weldoninhio

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm not forgetting the black market.

It certainly exists

But the evidence that smoking has declined dramatically in this country over the past decades is irrefutable, regardless of the existence of the black market.

I however don't think any government would ever be as hard on the drinks industry as previous governments have been on the tobacco industry, the lobby is far stronger.

The evidence that smoking has declined is that revenue earned from cigarettes has plummeted. This doesn’t take into account that people are buying illegal cigarettes, having friends and family bring boxes back from abroad etc.

Fr Tod Umptious

weldoninhio wrote: »

The evidence that smoking has declined is that revenue earned from cigarettes has plummeted. This doesn’t take into account that people are buying illegal cigarettes, having friends and family bring boxes back from abroad etc.

There is far more evidence than just revenue figures.
There are numerous reports on smoking prevalence in Ireland
I'll link some later.

the_syco

weldoninhio wrote: »

They’ll socialise in the pub, but normally they’ll have a few rather than going out and getting gee-eyed like I used* to

Agreed. Most people I know will have drinks in the house first, and use the pub to meet the opposite sex.

the_syco

weldoninhio wrote: »

They may be in pubs, but they definitely aren’t drinking as much as my generation and I’m only 36. Most young lads I see out in my town play football or GAA and are in the gym during the week too. They’ll socialise in the pub, but normally they’ll have a few rather than going out and getting gee-eyed like I used* to

Because they don't have the cash. So most will pre-drink at home first.

If the minimum pricing comes in, two things will happen;
black-market booze will become popular
under 18 kids will be able to buy booze with ease

FarmJames

https://m.conveniencestore.co.uk/571564.article?mobilesite=enabled

now while it is too early to say, since Scotland introduced MUP on May 1st, it appears from this article that alcohol sales went UP despite MUP. People are just spending more on their alcohol to the convenience stores joy so if this continues its doing nothing in reducing alcohol intake.

odyssey06

the_syco wrote: »

Because they don't have the cash. So most will pre-drink at home first.
If the minimum pricing comes in, two things will happen;
black-market booze will become popular
under 18 kids will be able to buy booze with ease

And #3, given that alcohol will now be much cheaper in the North even if both jurisdictions introduce minimum pricing, there will be a resurgence in cross border shopping and people will be doing their Christmas drinks shopping up north and coming home with a full boot.

McMurphy

odyssey06 wrote: »

And #3, given that alcohol will now be much cheaper in the North even if both jurisdictions introduce minimum pricing, there will be a resurgence in cross border shopping and people will be doing their Christmas drinks shopping up north and coming home with a full boot.

To be devil's advocate here, I haven't really found alcohol much cheaper up there in a long time, certainly not beer anyway.

oceanman

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

To be devil's advocate here, I haven't really found alcohol much cheaper up there in a long time, certainly not beer anyway.

no, but you will when this new pricing comes into effect ..

hatrickpatrick

Bill is now scheduled for debate next Wednesday. I'd suggest keeping up the lobbying this week, scare the sh!te of enough politicians to get it filibustered again

McMurphy

oceanman wrote: »

no, but you will when this new pricing comes into effect ..

I thought the master plan was both govts collaborating to more or less have the pricing synchronised - precisely to combat any cross border shopping north to south oral south to north?

Maybe I took that bit up wrongly, so apologies if so.

incentsitive

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

I hope with minimum pricing comes a deposit on cans also - if some scumbag thinks it is OK to throw a can/bottle on the street, they should be getting hit with a 50c deposit for their troubles. On my street there was about 50 cans just thrown in a pile where obviously the lads had a great old time before leaving their mess for somebody else to clean up.
The amount of bags of rubbish which when the animals pull them open are half-full of cans, bottles, etc is incredible. It would be a start to getting rid of this epidemic off the streets/beaches/parks/bins.

odyssey06

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I thought the master plan was both govts collaborating to more or less have the pricing synchronised - precisely to combat any cross border shopping north to south oral south to north?
Maybe I took that bit up wrongly, so apologies if so.

They want to introduce it at same time but the minimum unit price planned for the North is about 40% less than here, at least that was the last info I read.

Fr Tod Umptious

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I thought the master plan was both govts collaborating to more or less have the pricing synchronised - precisely to combat any cross border shopping north to south oral south to north?

Maybe I took that bit up wrongly, so apologies if so.

I think one of the reasons for it being postponed a number of months ago was due to the cross border issues.

This bill has been around for a long time now, it's far from having an easy passage through parliament.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

They want to introduce it at same time but the minimum unit price planned for the North is about 40% less than here, at least that was the last info I read.

You can imagine it can't you? Breaking News: Stormoont sits at last after collapsing 21 months ago. First item for discussion and ratification, Minimum Unit Pricing of Alcohol in collaboration with the Irish Republic's government.

I'd expect it to collapse all over again.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

Because they don't have the cash. So most will pre-drink at home first.

If the minimum pricing comes in, two things will happen;
black-market booze will become popular
under 18 kids will be able to buy booze with ease

And to add some "joined up thinking", black market sellers don't check for ID. They dont care whether youre 14 or 40, so long as you have cash, you're a potential customer.

This "plan" added to the underlying serious social issues the country is experiencing with a shortage of homes is going to bite us in a few years. You hear lots about the homeless and the single mums of two staying in the Gresham paid for by the council, but you hear very little about the low(and even medium) income workers who are sharing bedrooms with 2 or 3 or 5 others and can be turfed out at any time because someone else is prepared to pay 50 quid more a week.

There was an article I read during the week which said pub prices have risen by 9% since 2013. Inflation currently stands at 0.2%. Same article also said everything from rents to energy costs to transportation costs have gone up in the same period. And yet its a mystery why people aren't going to pubs much anymore.

No houses, money already being squeezed out of everybody, and now they want to make alcohol even more expensive. If this goes through and there isnt some form of civll unrest then I'm outta here.

the_syco

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I thought the master plan was both govts collaborating to more or less have the pricing synchronised - precisely to combat any cross border shopping north to south oral south to north?

Maybe I took that bit up wrongly, so apologies if so.

You have to wonder why NI would shoot itself in the foot by doing this? NI would want people to buy goods from their shops.

elperello

the_syco wrote: »

You have to wonder why NI would shoot itself in the foot by doing this? NI would want people to buy goods from their shops.

I'm sure a lot of people in NI would agree with you.

However Sinn Fein in the Dail support MUP and being an "all Ireland party" would most likely do likewise in Stormont.

Also the DUP have a tendency towards puritanism ( recall Dr Paisley often referring to drink as the devils buttermilk).

My parents are just back from Spain. In the supermarket near the villa, Jameson €16. Jim Beam €11. Almost half the price they are here. But seemingly its too cheap here.

the_syco

elperello wrote: »

Sinn Fein
...
Stormont.

Yeah, that ain't going to happen anytime soon!

the_syco

Who's running this? Would like to suggest that, if they're hiking the price, to bring in a recycling tax of 10cents a can, that can be redeemed at certain shops.

listermint

the_syco wrote: »

Who's running this? Would like to suggest that, if they're hiking the price, to bring in a recycling tax of 10cents a can, that can be redeemed at certain shops.

They have no appetite to work with a scheme remimburimsing retailers all that would require civil servants. This is solely about protecting vinters members.


You've no chance whatsoever of anyone listening to that suggestion as much as then regurgitating tired tropes of alcohol consumption in Ireland that goes against all the stats of the last ten years.

There is liars and believers in government and they are a shower of idiots in the pockets of lobbyists

Fr Tod Umptious

listermint wrote: »

They have no appetite to work with a scheme remimburimsing retailers all that would require civil servants. This is solely about protecting vinters members.


You've no chance whatsoever of anyone listening to that suggestion as much as then regurgitating tired tropes of alcohol consumption in Ireland that goes against all the stats of the last ten years.

There is liars and believers in government and they are a shower of idiots in the pockets of lobbyists

But here's the thing

The stats are showing that consumption is down overall, but the decline has been in pubs and independent off-licences.

So there is a decline in going to the pub where drink is most expensive, and there is a decline in people going to the independent off licence where drink is cheaper, there is no decline (or the decline is less) in people going to the supermarket etc where drink is cheapest and where drink can be heavily discounted.

And that's what's being targeted here, dress up as to be of benefit of the health of the nation, but with the added bonus of propping up the pub.

Hector Bellend

There's been a running joke for decades in my local.

All the deadbeat dipsos are constantly reminded of how they vowed never to touch a drop of drink ever again if and when the ever pint hit £ 1 in price.

Here we are over 30 years later and they're sitting on the same seat in the same pub and telling the same stories and crying into their € 5.30 pint of guinness.

Minimum pricing is not going to cure problem drinking. It will simply deprive others

Kitty6277

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My parents are just back from Spain. In the supermarket near the villa, Jameson €16. Jim Beam €11. Almost half the price they are here. But seemingly its too cheap here.

I'm in the UK at the moment, £16 for a bottle of good gin, double vodkas in the clubs for less than £3 and shots for 90p :rolleyes:

Kitty6277

Kitty6277 wrote: »

I'm in the UK at the moment, £16 for a bottle of good gin, double vodkas in the clubs for less than £3 and shots for 90p :rolleyes:

Shots for 90p?!? Which is what, 1 euro? Short of Diceys or D2 on certain nights with their 3 euro shots, the normal price of a shot here is about 4-5 euros. 4 times our closest neighbour. Admittedly a British shot is smaller at (usually) 25ml versus an irish shot at 35ml, but even so, the disparity in price is still enormous. Put another way, 3 Uk shots = 75ml = 3 euro. 2 Irish shots = 70ml = 8-10 euro.

Kitty6277

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Shots for 90p?!? Which is what, 1 euro? Short of Diceys or D2 on certain nights with their 3 euro shots, the normal price of a shot here is about 4-5 euros. 4 times our closest neighbour. Admittedly a British shot is smaller at (usually) 25ml versus an irish shot at 35ml, but even so, the disparity in price is still enormous. Put another way, 3 Uk shots = 75ml = 3 euro. 2 Irish shots = 70ml = 8-10 euro.

That's why every time I go out here, I'm continuously shocked at how cheap it is. On a Monday one of the clubs here does £1 entry and £1 for certain drinks before 12 (I think, could be 11.30). It's just crazy how cheap it is, even doubles of spirits and a mixer are less than £5

cadaliac

Kitty6277 wrote: »

I'm in the UK at the moment, £16 for a bottle of good gin, double vodkas in the clubs for less than £3 and shots for 90p :rolleyes:

To be fair, the quality of the cheap stuff in the UK (that is heavily discounted) is usually rubbish. Especially vodkas and energy drinks.
However, even at that, and if you pay more of a premium for main stream brands you still work out a lot cheaper (overall) in the uk.
Unless you are in the middle of the bigger cities - whereas here, you could pay 6 quid for a pint in Dublin and the same in Co. Donegal.
It will vary, but not by much.
There is no advertised happy hour in Ireland....

Re: buying Irish whiskey abroad for 1/3rd of the price it is formally sold at here, well what can I say. There in lies our problem. Greed and tax.

Capt'n Midnight

the_syco wrote: »

By "it's not a tax", they mean that the government doesn't get it. The minimum price will just be extra profit for the companies selling it.

Thus, all cans would in theory all be the same price.

I'd have no problem with increasing the tax and ringfencing it for the health services.

But no. All this does is force the supermarkets to take excessive profit on beer they import. It means they can sell the same can for double the price and keep every thing apart from the VAT as pure profit.



Beer is very cheap to make.


This measure won't affect anyone who goes to the pub as normal.

It will affect those who drink at home and at the pub, they'll have less money to spend in the pub.


It affects people who drink at home who will have to spend more on drink. Which means less savings or less spending on other stuff.